SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

McGrathsipan

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are we fecked?
 

Buster15

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Course it won't, do you genuinely believe shops are the breeding/incubation ground for covid? It's merely a vanity exercise from the government. If they were serious about having an impact then they would be going full on with social distancing and masks in hospitality if it really was something to be concerned rather than this current approach which has no logic to its decision.
Correct. And of course, the general public understand that as well, which is why compliance will fall away after a short period of time.
 

Buster15

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What I can see with transports services not enforcing it is huge arguments. Imagine if someone whose not wearing a mask decides to sit next to someone who is wearing one? The one wearing the mask who was sitting there first would have every reason to be annoyed.
Exactly.
I have actually heard a number of times individuals saying that they have been vaccinated so why do they need to wear a face covering.
 

choccy77

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Omicron either as transmissible as Delta, or less so - expert

I'm glad we have these experts :rolleyes:
 

choccy77

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Omicron variant causing increase in reinfections - expert

The new variant is causing more reinfections in South Africa than the Beta and Delta variants did, Professor Anne von Gottberg has warned.
A reinfection is classed as someone who tests positive for COVID at least 90 days after a previous infection.
Professor von Gottberg said that South Africa has high seroprevalance - meaning many people have been infected already - but early data indicates "previous infection does not provide them with protection from infection due to Omicron".
 

choccy77

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Wealthy nations should delay boosters for a month and a half, says WHO

Richer countries should delay their booster roll-outs for a short period of time to allow more vaccines to go to poorer nations, the World Health Organisation's special envoy on COVID-19 has said.


That is never gonna happen!
 

jojojo

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Omicron either as transmissible as Delta, or less so - expert

I'm glad we have these experts :rolleyes:
There's a desperate rush by people, including some who should know better, to be first with the story. It's like watching transfer gossip.

The "less transmissible" thing seems to come from what's become known as anecdata - a couple of examples about individual people stretched as if they are generally true. In this case it's firsthand reports from a few early cases in double vaxxed people who got mild symptoms and didn't pass it on to their vaxxed
households.

We need a lot more cases to know anything. Alternatively, and much better, a lot fewer cases next week would be even more impressive. Unfortunately, based on the last few days in SA (cases and hospitalisations) we're likely to be looking at the lot more cases data version.
 

choccy77

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At this stage, it's kinda pointless WHO having these press conferences, as it seems every other comment from an expert or another contradicts each other.

They're all guessing at this point and have very little actual scientific facts to base a full and concise conclusion.

May as well just let politicians give the news, because it's basically the same outcome.
 

Traub

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Although a lot of people have been infected in SA, a large proportion were infected in wave 1 and 2, which were around July and December last year. So although re-infection may be more likely, it needs to take into account time since last infection (or last vaccine shot).
 

Bratt

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Omikron confirmed in one of the persons of the 50-60 suspected omikron cases in Norway that @Samid linked to earlier. More expected to be confirmed.
What’s good is the article is saying that most of them have symptoms, but are in good shape.
They are all adults and vaccinated.

edit:This article says none of the 50-60 are seriously ill.
 
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Blood Mage

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This virus is never going away, I think we've all accepted that. All we can do is pray that it becomes more and more benign over time and we can start treating it like a cold.
 

Fluctuation0161

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I have little sympathy for the voluntarily unvaccinated but there are children who currently can't be vaccinated, the elderly and those who can't he vaccinated to be considered.

Until the whole world is suitably vaccinated measures to help stop or restrict the spread must stay on the board not matter that they are a minor inconvenience. Major lockdown will likely be rarer in largely vaccinated countries unless we are unlucky with new variants.
Do you know when the trials for these vaccines officially end?
 

jojojo

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Do you know when the trials for these vaccines officially end?
Which trials are you thinking of? Adult trials are complete except for things like antibody and booster monitoring, and blood tests to look for previously undiagnosed covid infections picked up during the trial. The standard efficacy/safety Pfizer trials are complete in the over 5s and they're now in the rollout/deployment monitoring phase.

Trials in under 5s are underway but I think it will be a while before we see that turned into a released product.
 

groovyalbert

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This virus is never going away, I think we've all accepted that. All we can do is pray that it becomes more and more benign over time and we can start treating it like a cold.
Think most would agree.

The hard part is at what point do you make the distinction between a Covid pandemic, endemic and then what could justifiably be compared to an extreme cold season.

It will also get to a point where governments and industries benefiting from the pandemic need to opt out/somewhat step aside - which if history has taught us anything is by no means guaranteed.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Think most would agree.

The hard part is at what point do you make the distinction between a Covid pandemic, endemic and then what could justifiably be compared to an extreme cold season.

It will also get to a point where governments and industries benefiting from the pandemic need to opt out/somewhat step aside - which if history has taught us anything is by no means guaranteed.
Governments benefiting from the pandemic? Pull the other one.

The only industry you could argue is benefitting is the pharmaceutical one. And even then, only two or three companies. The rest of them are being screwed by their main customers (health services) having to divert all their resources to covid. There’s even give and take for the main vaccine providers. Pfizer’s raking in cash from the vaccine while losing cash from other areas. It’s only in the last few months that their share price exceeded what it was at the end of 2018.

Literally everyone would benefit if the pandemic stopped tomorrow.
 

Pexbo

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Governments benefiting from the pandemic? Pull the other one.

The only industry you could argue is benefitting is the pharmaceutical one. And even then, only two or three companies. The rest of them are being screwed by their main customers (health services) having to divert all their resources to covid. There’s even give and take for the main vaccine providers. Pfizer’s raking in cash from the vaccine while losing cash from other areas. It’s only in the last few months that their share price exceeded what it was at the end of 2018.

Literally everyone would benefit if the pandemic stopped tomorrow.
Im not suggesting this is all a conspiracy of course, that’s just stupid but it’s also daft to say that individuals within governments haven’t been benefiting from this. Look at all the dodgy contracts handed out in the UK, they weren’t handed over without reward in the opposite direction.

In addition to that in the US, billionaire wealth grew by 70% during the pandemic.

So while I believe it’s real and I believe in scientists and their science, if we are being completely objective there are definitely motives for individuals in government to use the pandemic to their benefit.

I also think the UK government is using the pandemic to cripple and dismantle the NHS.
 

TheReligion

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Imagine if the UK tried to implement what Austria and Germany have done..

Interesting that some of the more liberal countries and ramping up their rules and becoming quite Draconian.
 

groovyalbert

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Governments benefiting from the pandemic? Pull the other one.

The only industry you could argue is benefitting is the pharmaceutical one. And even then, only two or three companies. The rest of them are being screwed by their main customers (health services) having to divert all their resources to covid. There’s even give and take for the main vaccine providers. Pfizer’s raking in cash from the vaccine while losing cash from other areas. It’s only in the last few months that their share price exceeded what it was at the end of 2018.

Literally everyone would benefit if the pandemic stopped tomorrow.
In terms of amount of influence and sway they've had over people's lives? There hasn't been anything like this since WWII in Western democracies. And yes, historically, once governments assume power and control it's by no means a given that these will be relinquished - especially when they themselves have a central role in defining the exact terms at which these controls can and should be relinquished.

There is absolutely nothing controversial about my above statement, nor am I arguing that this is what is currently happening everywhere. But I can guarantee you that there will be a number of governments right now loving the amount of power and control they're able to exert over their populations.

In regards to the industries taking advantage of the current situation, there are in fact many that have benefited from the natural advances and trends Covid and lockdowns have only sped up. Just look at how much more digitised our lives have become in the past 18 months/2 years as a result of this. Again, these are trends that would have probably naturally occurred but Covid has certainly sped this up and many companies/industries have benefited from it.

* I feel the need to qualify the above by underlining my position that I am in no way a covid conspiracist/anti-vaxxer/anything like that. I have completely supported lockdowns and will gladly accept shots into my arms at the earliest point recommended. This is more a prediction based on the assumption that, at some level, government's enjoy having as much control and sway over their populations lives, and that many (globally) will look to hang on to these powers even when we enter an endemic/Covid's impact is less devastating than it currently is.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Im not suggesting this is all a conspiracy of course, that’s just stupid but it’s also daft to say that individuals within governments haven’t been benefiting from this. Look at all the dodgy contracts handed out in the UK, they weren’t handed over without reward in the opposite direction.

In addition to that in the US, billionaire wealth grew by 70% during the pandemic.

So while I believe it’s real and I believe in scientists and their science, if we are being completely objective there are definitely motives for individuals in government to use the pandemic to their benefit.

I also think the UK government is using the pandemic to cripple and dismantle the NHS.
Dodgy individuals will try to feather their own nest in any and every circumstance. This will obviously be a lot easier in a booming global economy than when the whole world is on its knees during a pandemic.
 

groovyalbert

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Dodgy individuals will try to feather their own nest in any and every circumstance. This will obviously be a lot easier in a booming global economy than when the whole world is on its knees during a pandemic.
But during a situation where the promotion of one's own self-interest comes at the expense of many continually losing out/the gaps in wealth being expanded, it's arguably more felt during moments like this.
 

Pogue Mahone

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But during a situation where the promotion of one's own self-interest comes at the expense of many continually losing out/the gaps in wealth being expanded, it's arguably more felt during moments like this.
Sure. Another reason why the pandemic ending would benefit everyone.

Similar situation with governments. It’s obviously preferable to govern at a time when the citizens aren’t rioting in the streets over tough decisions you have to make
 

groovyalbert

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Sure. Another reason why the pandemic ending would benefit everyone.

Similar situation with governments. It’s obviously preferable to govern at a time when the citizens aren’t rioting in the streets over tough decisions you have to make
That probably depends on the government and who you ask. Also there are plenty of places where the option of rioting isn't there to begin with.
 

stw2022

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The focus on the specific area of reinfection as opposed to severity of infection, as seems to be where most focus seems to be on, seems maybe an indirect positive?

I understand reinfection is obviously an important factor but it seems to be unusually focused upon in the case of omicron out of apparent disappointment at the lack of other bad news.
 

Pogue Mahone

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The focus on the specific area of reinfection as opposed to severity of infection, as seems to be where most focus seems to be on, seems maybe an indirect positive?

I understand reinfection is obviously an important factor but it seems to be unusually focused upon in the case of omicron out of apparent disappointment at the lack of other bad news.
Your last sentence is bizarre. Who is disappointed at the lack of other bad news? The scientists researching the risk of reinfection?

If you have any good news about omicron then share it. Please!
 

stw2022

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Your last sentence is bizarre. Who is disappointed at the lack of other bad news? The scientists researching the risk of reinfection?
Scientists often caveat the data they publish. We know very little about it yet and what we do know comes from data from a country with very low vaccination rates, particularly amongst the young who this variant primarily appears to be skewing towards. I've never seen a thread or offering by any expert that doesn't touch upon some, all or alternative reasons why we can't jump to conclusions at all even with the data we have at the moment simply because we have next to nothing. That's what scientists do. What they don't do is present isolated pieces of the data and say 'Shit, this doesn't look good'.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Scientists often caveat the data they publish. We know very little about it yet and what we do know comes from data from a country with very low vaccination rates, particularly amongst the young who this variant primarily appears to be skewing towards. I've never seen a thread or offering by any expert that doesn't touch upon some, all or alternative reasons why we can't jump to conclusions at all even with the data we have at the moment simply because we have next to nothing. That's what scientists do. What they don't do is present isolated pieces of the data and say 'Shit, this doesn't look good'.
It was me that said “shit, this doesn’t look good”. Because, in my opinion, when a new variant has mutations that seem likely to cause it to evade prior immunity and subsequently real life data comes out which shows that it probably is evading prior immunity then shit, it doesn’t look good.

Obviously we all hope that maybe the immunity from vaccine is harder to evade but that seems unlikely, given there’s never been any kind of big advantage demonstrated by vaccine derived immunity over immunity from prior infection (other than the advantage of not potentially dying covid anyway!).

Anyway, other opinions are available. If you have one, please share it. That’s how discussion forums work. But accusing me/anyone else of sharing these data because we’re disappointed by “the lack of any other bad news” is just weird.
 

stw2022

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Sorry but I just find this thread bizarre at times. High infection rates mean govt incompetence but only when applied to the UK, when cases rise elsewhere it's nobody's fault. When it rises here it's because the people and our representatives are feckless. Vaccinations are good but restrictions are even better, except restrictions on those who choose not to get vaccinated - they're awful, apparently. In the meantime let's find Tweets that skew towards what we want to hear whether it be overwhelmingly positive or negative.

You can almost see when prominent Twitter experts go in and out of fashion with certain posters depending if their latest Tweets are sufficiently cheerful or otherwise. It's the same on Twitter itself, you see a RT on your timeline and can see immediately by who's retweeting it if the opinion will be: 'Looking good based on these numbers' or 'feck, get the corned beef tins in'. Like people's choice of newspapers, people only tend to spread/retweet information that tells them what they want to hear. And nobody from either camp wants to here 'Far too early to know very much', so they jump on what little they do know with:
'Huzzah! Mild! Christmas saved' or the opposite.
 

Brwned

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The focus on the specific area of reinfection as opposed to severity of infection, as seems to be where most focus seems to be on, seems maybe an indirect positive?

I understand reinfection is obviously an important factor but it seems to be unusually focused upon in the case of omicron out of apparent disappointment at the lack of other bad news.
The focus is on reinfection is because it’s a new kind of threat and far more relevant now, given the volume of past infections and vaccination, than it was before. The severity of the disease is reflected in the hospitalisation figures, which in this isolated case appear to be about as bad as it was before, with obvious caveats.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Sorry but I just find this thread bizarre at times. High infection rates mean govt incompetence but only when applied to the UK, when cases rise elsewhere it's nobody's fault. When it rises here it's because the people and our representatives are feckless. Vaccinations are good but restrictions are even better, except restrictions on those who choose not to get vaccinated - they're awful, apparently. In the meantime let's find Tweets that skew towards what we want to hear whether it be overwhelmingly positive or negative.

You can almost see when prominent Twitter experts go in and out of fashion with certain posters depending if their latest Tweets are sufficiently cheerful or otherwise. It's the same on Twitter itself, you see a RT on your timeline and can see immediately by who's retweeting it if the opinion will be: 'Looking good based on these numbers' or 'feck, get the corned beef tins in'. Like people's choice of newspapers, people only tend to spread/retweet information that tells them what they want to hear. And nobody from either camp wants to here 'Far too early to know very much', so they jump on what little they do know with:
'Huzzah! Mild! Christmas saved' or the opposite.
If you have a problem with Twitter, avoid it. It’s a cess pool. On every topic. But don’t bring your Twitter hang-ups here where the discussion is (in general) fairly balanced. I can 100% assure you that if/when I see any good news coming out of South Africa I will share it. And I’m kind of insulted that you imply I wouldn’t.
 

Traub

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Shit if it's a low % vaccinated population right? Gauteng only has 38.78% of their population vaccinated according to their latest data, it's still a big unknown of it's impact on high % rate vaccinated nations.
Yes but most of the population has had Covid before. So if this variant evades past infection but not vaccinated individuals, vaccine mandates may be on the cards.

I wouldn’t place too much reliance on Gauteng hospital numbers just yet. There may be a bit of a backlog (same with deaths). Give it a few more days.