SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[balaks]

Downing Street lobby briefing:

'No 10 seems worried about the expectations raised by some of these newspaper stories, because the spokesman made a point of stressing that anything happening next week would be “very limited”. He told reporters:

"You all need to be very clear: any easement to the guidelines next week will be very limited. We are at a critical moment in the fight against the virus and we will not do anything which risks throwing away the effort and sacrifices of the British public."'

Boris Johnson:

"We are not going to do anything that risks a second peak. We will advance with maximum caution in order to protect the NHS and to save lives. We will be guided at every step by the science and the data and we will closely track the impact of any easing of the social distancing measures and and will not hesitate to tighten the rules if required."

As expected, very little is going to change for a while yet.

 

[africanspur]

Aren't you also moaning about something equally mostly nonexistent though?

I'm not on facebook so perhaps it's more prevalent there but I'm not seeing where all these people are apparently claiming that brits at large aren't behaving?

Perhaps my tone is off but I don't really think I am moaning tbf. Seems more like a reasonable discussion with multiple people with no arguments/ insults or condescension (so far, of course there is always time ).

It is happening on FB but I was referring more to the discussions on here though.

Admittedly, I don't have as much time to browse/ post as before though so perhaps I'm just landing on rare occasions of people doing it and forming an incorrect assumption.

 

[Samid]

R is estimated to be at 0.49 in Norway. Somewhat surprised by that considering our lockdown wasn’t actually that strict to begin with. Stores, shops have been functioning as normal throughout, IKEAs have been as busy as always etc. I've personally spent far more time outdoors the last couple of months compared to what I usually do (and so have lots of others). I guess the main factor was putting border restrictions in place fairly early. And good testing obviously.

One on one professions and schools (1-4 grades) have been open for a couple of weeks. 5-10 grades are expected to open next week. We're getting the latest on sports competitions/gyms later today, get that sorted within a couple of weeks and we're in a reasonably sound position for the summer months. Encourage those that can work remotely to continue doing so and keep the borders closed.

 

[Kag]

Downing Street lobby briefing:

'No 10 seems worried about the expectations raised by some of these newspaper stories, because the spokesman made a point of stressing that anything happening next week would be “very limited”. He told reporters:

"You all need to be very clear: any easement to the guidelines next week will be very limited. We are at a critical moment in the fight against the virus and we will not do anything which risks throwing away the effort and sacrifices of the British public."'

Boris Johnson:

"We are not going to do anything that risks a second peak. We will advance with maximum caution in order to protect the NHS and to save lives. We will be guided at every step by the science and the data and we will closely track the impact of any easing of the social distancing measures and and will not hesitate to tighten the rules if required."

This surge in discussion boils down to Johnson’s performance at PMQs yesterday. He triggered the conversation surrounding Monday when he tried to bat away requests to inform parliament first. As soon as he said it, I turned to my Dad and said that his advisors would be sat with their heads in their hands.

One of Johnson’s (many) biggest issues is that he doesn’t think before he opens his gob. He does this sort of thing time and time again: shaking hands with Corona patients, take it on the chin, apparent success...

 

[roykeane19]

I don't really understand what we're doing at this point. I havent really understood at any point but now it's just bordering on sheer lunacy.

I thought the whole point of lockdown was to allow the health service to cope during the peak period which would also potentially have come at a time when they are already stretched. Now we are past both of those possibilities and ae still carrying on exactly the same.

Who are we even saving at this point? The virus is not going to go away and one way or another most people will get it before there is a vaccine...unless they are literally made to live a life of misery as permanent prisoners in their own home. Even those who don't get it before there is a vaccine...the vaccine wont help a lot of them who the virus is actually a risk to.

I don't know anyone who's been affected by corona virus, yet know countless people who've lost jobs, income, opportunities, who are living in misery or who's mental health has been severely affected. A friend of a work colleague has committed suicide. My dad who's been forced to self isolate has seen his health deteriorate where he can't exercise and has been drinking and smoking more. My mum has severe mental health issues and I'm not even allowed to see her to check she is ok. things like this are 500x more widespread as corona virus and for a signnifiant percentage of people are a far bigger risk.

We're on the verge of a point now where we are killing and torturing people rather than helping them, I'm afraid. I see people laughing at people who think they're being "opressed"...but the reality is we've all had most of our freedoms taken away with no guarantee we'll ge tthem back, and if I asked anyone to explain what it's actually achieving, it's very hard to say it's achieving anythhing at all as there is literally NO evidence or plan to support any argument.

We're at 30,000 deaths, plus probably a whole load more, plus a whole load more again that are due to lockdown measures rather than the virus. The recorded overall death numbers suggest lockdown is killing thousands a week already. There will be a much bigger death toll number next to the lockdown/economic impact in the longer term. If the aim is to save lives where is the evidence that it is doing that?

People are so scared of corona that when they have legit problems they are not coming to hospital, My brother is a cardiologist and he said theres been a 70% reduction in PCI`s(procedure when you put in a stent when someone has an acute heart attack), So its not people arent having heart attacks, its theyre having threm at home.

I work in A&E and Ive seen a good few elder patients who have had chest pain days earlier, but they only come into hospital after a few days, and by then the damage is already done, and theres not much to do apart from medical management. Granted it has helped with all the rubbish we usually see in A&E who come thinking were like a second gp service or ill just got to a&e, when it stands for Accident and Emergency, alot of people were abusing A&E, hopefully this changes after covid - most likely it wont

Hospital admissions are rising again, as more people are going out, we`re getting loads of the minor injuries , and people are starting to come back again

This NHS tracking app is pure big brother and way too convenient, that should never be allowed to pass, and no one should use it

The government had no idea what to do, so they just decided to lock the whole country down, Sweden didnt do any large lockdown and there death rate from covid is similiar to countries in lockdown

 

[Kag]

R is estimated to be at 0.49 in Norway. Somewhat surprised by that considering our lockdown wasn’t actually that strict to begin with. Stores, shops have been functioning as normal throughout, IKEAs have been as busy as always etc. I've personally spent far more time outdoors the last couple of months compared to what I usually do (and so have lots of others). I guess the main factor was putting border restrictions in place fairly early. And good testing obviously.

One on one professions and schools (1-4 grades) have been open for a couple of weeks. 5-10 grades are expected to open next week. We're getting the latest on sports competitions/gyms later today, get that sorted within a couple of weeks and we're in a reasonably sound position for the summer months. Encourage those that can work remotely to continue doing so and keep the borders closed.

That’s good news.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

R is estimated to be at 0.49 in Norway. Somewhat surprised by that considering our lockdown wasn’t actually that strict to begin with. Stores, shops have been functioning as normal throughout, IKEAs have been as busy as always etc. I've personally spent far more time outdoors the last couple of months compared to what I usually do (and so have lots of others). I guess the main factor was putting border restrictions in place fairly early. And good testing obviously.

One on one professions and schools (1-4 grades) have been open for a couple of weeks. 5-10 grades are expected to open next week. We're getting the latest on sports competitions/gyms later today, get that sorted within a couple of weeks and we're in a reasonably sound position for the summer months. Encourage those that can work remotely to continue doing so and keep the borders closed.

I could basically write exactly the same thing for Germany. Latest R number was 0.65 today. It's actually annoying that our media keep using the word lockdown because a) it's yet another word borrowed from English when we just could use a German word and b) we never had a lockdown.

 

[SteveJ]

*facepalm with disposable gloves on*

The prime minister’s spokesman claimed that the ‘100,000 tests per day’ had been a success even though it has not been met for four days in a row.

 

[Buster15]

This surge in discussion boils down to Johnson’s performance at PMQs yesterday. He triggered the conversation surrounding Monday when he tried to bat away requests to inform parliament first. As soon as he said it, I turned to my Dad and said that his advisors would be sat with their heads in their hands.

One of Johnson’s (many) biggest issues is that he doesn’t think before he opens his gob. He does this sort of thing time and time again: shaking hands with Corona patients, take it on the chin, apparent success...

Indeed.
I thought exactly the same thing of our PM.
He was getting completely outclassed by the excellent questions of Keir Starmer and when he repeatedly turned to look for divine intervention from the normal baying baboons sitting behind him, they were not there.

So he reverted to type and said the first thing that came into his head.

Well. Now they have to come up with something that will satisfy the public, while trying to reduce the risk.

 

[SilentWitness]

The videos of people queuing at KFC and Costa drive-ins are a bit baffling and sad. I don’t understand why you’d be so desperate to have those?

 

[Jippy]

I also don't understand the fascination with parks. London is thankfully a very green city, with many excellent parks. That's been hugely beneficial in lockdown, allowing people to walk and exercise away from roads where you're more likely to have to brush past people. Many also live in flats or places without gardens, again meaning that parks are a great way to spend time outside in an open plan area.

Do you really believe that there has been a material spread in the virus from people walking or jogging past each other in parks? Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem the type of environment that would spread the virus.

Parks are a godsend, particularly if you live in a block of flats- think they've helped keep a lot of people sane during the lockdown. I don't think it's a big problem as long as people are sensible.

 

[Ødegaard]

R is estimated to be at 0.49 in Norway. Somewhat surprised by that considering our lockdown wasn’t actually that strict to begin with. Stores, shops have been functioning as normal throughout, IKEAs have been as busy as always etc. I've personally spent far more time outdoors the last couple of months compared to what I usually do (and so have lots of others). I guess the main factor was putting border restrictions in place fairly early. And good testing obviously.

One on one professions and schools (1-4 grades) have been open for a couple of weeks. 5-10 grades are expected to open next week. We're getting the latest on sports competitions/gyms later today, get that sorted within a couple of weeks and we're in a reasonably sound position for the summer months. Encourage those that can work remotely to continue doing so and keep the borders closed.

My best friends wife works at St. Olav, one of her colleges works in the reception and she was almost certainly sick but was told to come to work anyway and they didn't want to test her because she couldn't come if it was proved that she had covid.

Heard too many similar stories to feel like Norway is doing great on testing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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This is... quite special...

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Ødegaard]

People are so scared of corona that when they have legit problems they are not coming to hospital, My brother is a cardiologist and he said theres been a 70% reduction in PCI`s(procedure when you put in a stent when someone has an acute heart attack), So its not people arent having heart attacks, its theyre having threm at home.

I work in A&E and Ive seen a good few elder patients who have had chest pain days earlier, but they only come into hospital after a few days, and by then the damage is already done, and theres not much to do apart from medical management. Granted it has helped with all the rubbish we usually see in A&E who come thinking were like a second gp service or ill just got to a&e, when it stands for Accident and Emergency, alot of people were abusing A&E, hopefully this changes after covid - most likely it wont

Hospital admissions are rising again, as more people are going out, we`re getting loads of the minor injuries , and people are starting to come back again

This NHS tracking app is pure big brother and way too convenient, that should never be allowed to pass, and no one should use it

The government had no idea what to do, so they just decided to lock the whole country down, Sweden didnt do any large lockdown and there death rate from covid is similiar to countries in lockdown

Just quoting you because the post is what made me start thinking. Feel free to ignore the ramblings.

My medical office went out with a article in the local newspaper to tell people to not avoid them.
I was scared to go to take a blood sample to check if my medications are at a good level and ended up taking it a month later than I should have. Dumb of me of course. I didn't get the memo before I booked the appointment that they had made sure people who were sick wouldn't come there and that they had made sure we wouldn't sit next to each other. I'm guessing they get around 50 people a day normally but get maybe 5 these days.
Most people wait for their appointment to start in their car in the parking area outside. It seems like we patients are terrible at seeing clear on what is more dangerous to us that we live with everyday and what is just "extra" but scares us.

I worry about my next annual checkup at the hospital. As things are now I don't want to go. I live in the far north of Norway, so the flight would be on almost 2 hours with 2-3 stops. Fewer flights go from where I live as well due to the issues with Norwegian would mean they get cramped. The government has told the industry to keep the midseat empty, but a lot of the flights I take are usually just 2 seats.

Obviously the solution is to just call the hospital beforehand and voice my concerns and let the professionals make the call. I'll do that, but damn does it seem scary to travel now.
We're self isolating now and alta has had around 8 cases of covid19 with a population of 20k, no active ones cases now. But things are opening up more now...

 

[Bullhitter]

I don't know how anyone in Italy visited parks, because they've been physically closed with barriers. You'd have to be making a determined effort to get in.

That was my confusion.

Which brought me to 3 conclusions:

1) The data is incorrect
2) The Italian lockdown is not as stringent as I'd been led to believe
3) Or in the country where going out for a 'bad' reason has essentially been temporarily made illegal, 20% of the normal park visits are still happening.

We know 2 is not true and we'll assume 1 isn't either. So for me, the takeaway from that graph is that, despite very little policing of the lockdown (few sensationalist videos of police asking people to get off their own front lawns aside), Brits are still choosing themselves to visit the park less, even though its one of the few things they are allowed to. The flipside is that 20% of normal park visits in Italy are still ongoing, despite significant barriers to doing so.

Plus the rightly much lauded Germans have actually been visiting the park more often than usual, despite a still relatively high by global standards death/million population statistic.

Surely it is referring to park/greenland areas rather than specifically parks.

 

[Ødegaard]

@Samid
Do you know if the government has increased capacity a lot? Noticed the resporators Erna & Co bought were seen as pointless by some doctors. Did you read anything about that?
Think I read something about increase of capacity at one hospital with more beds but I've got no idea how it is looking in general.

 

[JPRouve]

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This is... quite special...

I had to check that it wasn't a joke, it's easily one of the stupidest thing wrote by a journalist.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

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This is... quite special...

Correct observation, wrong conclusion I'd say. We don't not use them because we "lost" but because of the collective guilt and deep embarrassment and shame Germans feel about the war.

 

[Ludens the Red]

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This is concerning and I’ve noticed it massively when driving around that there’s a lot more traffic. It’s probably more of a hindrance than the folk walking about aimlessly. Nowhere is open so the only conclusion to come from the increase in cars on the road is that people are visiting people more and more which should be a big no no unless it’s to visit someone unable. I’ve got a mate who is an Uber driver and he said he’s been picking up a lot of younger males who have openly stated they’re going to meet girls for the old poke and dash.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

@Samid
Do you know if the government has increased capacity a lot? Noticed the resporators Erna & Co bought were seen as pointless by some doctors. Did you read anything about that?
Think I read something about increase of capacity at one hospital with more beds but I've got no idea how it is looking in general.

All major hospitals made changes to accommodate for a worst-case scenario with some doctors being separated from the rest and working in "covid" groups...
Nationally; did not go above the respirator threshold in this wave, but there might have been weeks where regionally, especially in Oslo, where the capacity was closed to being reached.
Moving patients around if there was a need for respirators was always an option.

Some hospitals in Oslo has increased the capacity marginally, but currently, there is no need for it.

 

[United Hobbit]

We have done well that's true.

I am getting an uptick in anxiety symptoms with what's head on Sunday evening and from next Monday onward. I just can't see any other way other than us hitting another peak of this thing. Testing is marginally better but no logistical planning demonstrated about how to implement quarantine measures to contact trace.The NHS app is being trialled in Isle of Wight, by the time teething problems or proof of concept is established this thing will gain a foothold again in our communities.

Discussing this earlier today after finishing a night shift and went through a fairly busy city centre to pick up a few things which is probably because of the upcoming long weekend. A lot of my colleagues are experiencing the same with regards to anxiety symptoms (I think I genuinely had palpitations), think a lot of us working in healthcare (and probably general population) are going to have elements of adjustment disorder, PTSD or agoraphobia now.

The videos of people queuing at KFC and Costa drive-ins are a bit baffling and sad. I don’t understand why you’d be so desperate to have those?

I'm the same with regards to anxiety, I've been fine since I've been wfh but this is the most anxious I've felt since it started beside my initial battle with work to give us wfh access.
Whoever mentioned their company was thinking about keeping wfh for the rest of the year, lucky you, it's a shame more companies arent like that

I agree it's sad how people are queuing for things like KFC and there in lies the problem of reopening too quickly if they're flocking to KFC so quickly, where they are at least in cars what about places like the pub?

I see Scotland has extended lockdown for another 3 weeks I hope we do the same

I saw on another forum someone shared a tweet, I dont do twitter so cant show it but it was by Martin Belam and referenced the papers terming Monday "happy Monday" yet the death toll in the UK alone is more than 11 7/7's, more than 6 Hillsboroughs, four and a half Aberfans, 3 Marchioness', 3 Herald of Free enterprises, 20 Kings Cross Fires....

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Correct observation, wrong conclusion I'd say. We don't not use them because we "lost" but because of the collective guilt and deep embarrassment and shame Germans feel about the war.

The really interesting insight into a national psyche here is not why Germany doesn’t want to reference a war that killed millions, it’s why the British media constantly talk about the “blitz spirit” in a population of people born decades after the war was over.

 

[11101]

It is hardly surprising that people are still going out to the park, considering that you were never explicitly banned as long as you were socially distancing within the park itself. And if I'm reading that correctly, visits from European flag bearers Germany were actually up to the parks?

My question from that graph would actually be why in Italy and Spain, where you weren't allowed out at all except for the most urgent of causes, the drop was not essentially 100%? Who are these 1/4 of people who are still going to the park in Italy when you need a slip to explain why you're out of the house at all?

My point is not to compare the individual lockdowns and their effectiveness (or governmental responses) but to comment against the intellectual superiority some seem to feel over the Brits/ other Brits, in their eagerness to prove how great they are in comparison.

I'm reading this thread and seeing so many people complain and insult Brits/ other Brits and I go out and about on my way to work or to go shopping and see a completely different picture to what is being portrayed on here.

Park doesn't just mean city parks with gates and fences. National Parks are huge and people still live in/move through them even in lockdown.

Flouting rules is a national sport in Italy but they have been taking this seriously, once it became apparent how serious it was. I have a video i took on the way to the supermarket of a crossroads that is normally nose to tail with traffic at any given time of day. I didn't see another car or person for about the mile that you can see in any direction.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The videos of people queuing at KFC and Costa drive-ins are a bit baffling and sad. I don’t understand why you’d be so desperate to have those?

It’s mad isn’t it. You’d think people would be making a more of an effort to be fit and healthy. Ease back into scoffing down rubbish food? Nope no chance.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

UK is essentially paying for not locking down way earlier and going herd immunity way rather than taking responsibility and controlling the spread themselves (of course the later would have required a lot more nous and effort from the government in terms of planning and whatnot, essentially, what I'm saying is your gov has been exposed for being lazy thick cnuts hoping it all just goes away by itself).

Totally agree.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

The really interesting insight into a national psyche here is not why Germany doesn’t want to reference a war that killed millions, it’s why the British media constantly talk about the “blitz spirit” in a population of people born decades after the war was over.

Possibly. Haven't read the article but from the tweet it looks like an analysis of the language used by UK and US media. Historical events on a scale such as WW2 have a big impact on our language so it seems plausible a lot of war-related phrases and expressions are used in the anglophone world without people necessarily being aware of it. But I know it's the Daily Mail so it's probably not a sociolinguistic dissertation.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Laura K: 'Boris Johnson to give speech on plans to ease lockdown at 7pm on Sunday'

Hell, who needs Parliament, eh?

Yep. This should be discussed in parliament first. It is ridiculous.

 

[Jippy]

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This is... quite special...

Oh wow, they may have won coronavirus, but WE WON THE WAR!

 

[SilentWitness]

It’s mad isn’t it. You’d think people would be making a more of an effort to be fit and healthy. Ease back into scoffing down rubbish food? Nope no chance.

Yep. I understand the arguments made for people needing to use park space or other spaces because they are from a poor household/feel unsafe at home or whatever but I don't get how anyone could argue that Costa or KFC is vital for them to have. They're spending on petrol, a coffee thats 10x the cost of one at home and sitting in a queue for 2 hours causing hassle. It's ridiculous.

 

[SteveJ]

The really interesting insight into a national psyche here is not why Germany doesn’t want to reference a war that killed millions, it’s why the British media constantly talk about the “blitz spirit” in a population of people born decades after the war was over.

It's because there's f*ck-all else for British leaders to brag about.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

This hasn't happened here in Germany either. The Chancellor discusses all measures with relevant ministers from the cabinet and the Minister Presidents from the states and then announces the results to the public in a press conference.

You’ve just written;

“That didn’t happen here. They did exactly what I’m saying didn’t”

 

[JPRouve]

It's because there's f*ck-all else for British leaders to brag about.

The UK is a country full of inovation and the heart of global business industry, you are among the best in everything that matters. There is actually a lot of positive things to brag about, the only thing that I noticed over the years is that your media and politicians love to diminish others whether they are talking about british or foreign people and countries, they are obnoxious and not a good representation of the UK.

 

[SteveJ]

The UK is a country full of inovation and the heart of global business industry, you are among the best in everything that matters. There is actually a lot of positive things to brag about, the only thing that I noticed over the years is that your media and politicians love to diminish others whether they are talking about british or foreign people and countries, they are obnoxious and not a good representation of the UK.

Oh yeah, I'm being far too damning - I guess I'm just sick of decades of trashy 'paper headlines, and of 'patriotic' politicians using the deaths & hardships of millions as a tool with which to fool the public and to bash foreign nations.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

You’ve just written;

“That didn’t happen here. They did exactly what I’m saying didn’t”

Ehm, no. At no point is the German parliament involved in the process, nor should it be in my opinion.

 

[Samid]

My best friends wife works at St. Olav, one of her colleges works in the reception and she was almost certainly sick but was told to come to work anyway and they didn't want to test her because she couldn't come if it was proved that she had covid.

Heard too many similar stories to feel like Norway is doing great on testing.

My point on testing was more related to our initial response to the outbreak. We were one of the first countries to 1k confirmed cases.

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The fact that we were just behind USA (65x population) and ahead of UK (13x population) proves that we did a very good job in tracking down the first outbreak while those countries were busy rambling on about fake news and herd immunity.

In isolation I don't think we're doing great either in terms of testing and testing capacity but relative to other countries we're certainly in the top tier.

 

[Smores]

Perhaps my tone is off but I don't really think I am moaning tbf. Seems more like a reasonable discussion with multiple people with no arguments/ insults or condescension (so far, of course there is always time ).

It is happening on FB but I was referring more to the discussions on here though.

Admittedly, I don't have as much time to browse/ post as before though so perhaps I'm just landing on rare occasions of people doing it and forming an incorrect assumption.

Oh don't get me wrong i didn't mean moaning in any aggro kind of way just general complaint.

I think that is what you're doing and a few others too, just as those few complaining about the public are overblowing the issue. People don't often contextualize their words on here so it's easy for a point intended to be about a subsection to be taken more generally.

 

[africanspur]

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This is... quite special...

Just......sigh. I despise everything about that paper.

 

[africanspur]

Park doesn't just mean city parks with gates and fences. National Parks are huge and people still live in/move through them even in lockdown.

Flouting rules is a national sport in Italy but they have been taking this seriously, once it became apparent how serious it was. I have a video i took on the way to the supermarket of a crossroads that is normally nose to tail with traffic at any given time of day. I didn't see another car or person for about the mile that you can see in any direction.

Apologies, that was my mistake. I was being sincere when I was saying I did not mean the point in any way to be a comparison vs other countries and shouldn't have engaged in any kind at all.

 

[Maticmaker]

I owe you an apology Matic. I think most people know it's supply and demand, if you need more workers you have to pay them more. What I was actually trying to do was draw in someone sat on home doing nothing for £2.5k to see what they had to say about the idea, but I got you instead. Childish of me really, hence the apology. To clear up, yes, if the workers have better conditions, realistic targets and better pay then there won't be a shortage, couldn't agree more.

Its OK no problem, you don't owe me any apology everyone on here has a right to their views, I understand what you were fishing for.

One thing I hope comes out of this Covid-19 is that the workers who are doing the so called unskilled, low paid jobs; the Van Drivers, the Care home staff, as well as those low paid staff in the NHS, finally get a decent wage. I'm sure those who are the front line troops now, appreciate the community clapping and the warm words, but I'm sure they would be much happier with a regular hours and a properly paid job.