You're joking right? Scholes has been a coach at United and a part owner of Salford since he packed in football. Hardly struggling for work in the game. And he became a pundit on TV, although he has no manager or agent. He's not out there paying thousands to a agent to hustle for television work for him like every player turned talking head on television currently. Maybe he likes to be around his ex-players (who think respect him tremendously) and talk football? He's still got the passion for it. Its pretty typical that people have to think there's an agenda within every decision someone makes, even though their whole history pretty much tells you that isnt likely.
Scholes the Pundit
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
he's quite unique as a pundit, I don't see it long term and gives the impression he will only turn out for united. He's got ideas, or more what id call common sense. He just isn't very articulate
Brilliant post.
We wouldn't be playing drossball if one of the Co92 were in charge.
Pseudo-intellectuals wanting him to rock out an ipad/touch screen and start feeding nonsense like "Rooney was a silent dominator" are the worst. Punditry is not a science, neither is football, however much we like to make it such by reading over analytical websites and playing football manager. Our performance against 'Pool didn't need a deep analysis from Scholes to explain the shambles it was.
Scholes was spot on as usual. Absolutely love him.
Scholes was spot on as usual. Absolutely love him.
He supported Oldham didn't he,?
Scholes is right you know. Juan Mata, captain in a United Pool game? We've lost our identity. Manchester United are supposed to be hard bastards who can actually play. Robson, Hughes, Keane, Ince, Scholes himself, Vidic. Remember how we used to bully Arsenal as they fannied about?
We're turning into a pale imitation of Arsenal. And even failing at that. We're 6th place behind the likes of Leicester and West Ham for fecks sakes.
Van Gaal and his insistence on not taking risks, keeping possession and not showing emotion on the field has made us into this sterile football team who concede late goals and hang their heads when the opposition takes the lead.
The sooner he fecks off, the better.
We're turning into a pale imitation of Arsenal. And even failing at that. We're 6th place behind the likes of Leicester and West Ham for fecks sakes.
Van Gaal and his insistence on not taking risks, keeping possession and not showing emotion on the field has made us into this sterile football team who concede late goals and hang their heads when the opposition takes the lead.
The sooner he fecks off, the better.
You can sense the frustration in Scholes and he is echoing the feeling of just about every fan out there. Short of effing and blinding he's no different to any of us over a pint after watching that. I have no idea if it's the right approach for punditry but it resonates with us fans and for that he should be applauded on this occasion. I want to listen to pundits who speak like a fan.
Not really sure how anyone can object to anything Scholes said after the Liverpool game. He was bang on with everything, and summed up exactly what the fans felt about the game, and United at the moment. Nothing wrong with pundits being fans and showing a bit of emotion, especially when theyve played for the club for 20 years and have got more right to speak up than most.
One things for sure, the board will take more notice of what he's saying than any of us and if they listen to what he's saying then that can only be a good thing.
One things for sure, the board will take more notice of what he's saying than any of us and if they listen to what he's saying then that can only be a good thing.
That's for his bosses to worry about. Personally I'm glad he still cares.
The bold bits are quite funny. When did Scholes say we dominated the Champions League? And over £300m has been spent since we last won the league. That's not made up. It's factual.
Why?
He's on there because he's been there and done it as a player. He's therefore entitled to comment.
I'd much rather see someone honest and passionate about what he's talking about than the usual cliched rubbish you hear from most pundits.
I'm pretty sure that Scholes would be telling Giggs in person that his team was playing shit football.
Punditry is an opinion, they're entitled to have their opinion on what happens, just like you are entitled to have your opinion on what happens, and what the pundits say. If you have an opinion on scholes' punditry, you're essentially expressing the same rights as he does, so don't moan about it, argue the point, not the man. The only person who isn't entitled to such an opinion, is Robbie savage, because he has never won the Pl or the CL.
Each to thier own; I expect more from pundits. Just been there and done it isn't really enough for me.
Well, of course: If that were the basis for criticising anyone, pundits, players, managers, etc., there would be very little to talk about on the Caf.
Paul Scholes has more than earned the right to say whatever he likes.
I didn't mean to suggest he can't be criticised for you not liking his style. I'm just saying it's not for you to say what his job should be. Some have no issue with him showing his emotion on the subject.
That always reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson about elektricity as an Italian invention and it's working in Italian cars. You're right and I agree, I was just trying to point out that this working class sentiment isn't alien to foreign football either, it just has a different outcome. And I am fully with the working class pride in football, but football isn't the sort of thing one should want to keep for themselves.
Even here, things like 'in the red zone' are met with disbelief and mockery. The stupidity is that it goes against the nature of sport, as a club you are obliged to try to get better in any way you can. There's also the banality of the motives, sticking to what you know and reducing questions and problems to your own level of knowledge and understanding. If footwall is really more complicated than good old 4-4-2 and get hem tackles in, what would be the use of pundits whose understanding is limited to that?
Still managed to get a dig at Lallana being a shit player. Loved that bit.
Haha - "Just go and smash him!"
He referred to European football like it was all sunshine and hallelujah when Ferguson was in charge. You can also compare the spending in the last 10 years and compare it to the 10 years before, or the spending of all the PL clubs.
The question is which fact he picks and which argument it is supposed to support. If his point is that United has the best players, or should have had the best players if it was spent well, his fact is not going to support that claim. If you want to make a sensible statement about that, you have to pick a different fact, namely net spending, and you have to relate that to other facts, like what others have spent, what is on offer for that kind of money, for how long others have spent money and the state the squad was in before this spending happened. This is just naming a big number, which is not the full truth, and suggesting that a number like that would have been enough to buy success.
The most stupid thing he said was that United didn't need a new philosophy, because the old one had worked perfectly for 20 years. That's nonsense of course, the old philosophy was let Ferguson take care of it and it will all come good. But Ferguson quit, so it can never work anymore. And it was past it already, if you get outplayed by Basel and Ajax and don't stand a chance against the best all, it's time for a change. Change is not easy, but that's no reason to live in the past like Scholes.
Let him do the same for LVG as well then
What i meant is he will not go on national television and pick giggs apart like he did for LVG quite regularly from the start.I have no idea what he's spot on about. He's rightfully annoyed. Any United fan watching the stinking football we saw on Thursday would naturally be so. But I can't say he's actually said anything interesting there.
No he didn't. You're making shit up. He clearly pointed out we were better than we are now. Net spend is irrelevant and the state of others teams squads mean nothing either in a year when Leicester City top the league. A lot of money has been spent and much of it not very wisely. That's a tangible fact.
Just because Scholes says all the right things in a studio does not mean he is qualified for any role at Man Utd. It's the same logic people used to suggest Gary Neville knows what he is doing but he still looks out of his depth at Valencia.
Scholes comes across like someone doing a fancam after a defeat. He isn't very articulated as someone above mentioned. I don't think we should be blinded by Scholes' comments. Yes, It might feel like 'he gets it' and knows what's wrong, but did he provide any answers or solutions? or did he just vent his frustrations. Didn't call for the manager to be sacked or replaced or provide any genuine alternatives.
He also is a bit of a hypocrite. He has no problem blaming Van Gaal or certain players for defeats and failures but he manages to always bypass the likes of Rooney, Carrick or Ryan Giggs, someone who was brought into because he 'gets united'.
You'd think he'd be instilling and doing all the things Scholes and most fans are talking about. However, Giggs has come across worse than Van Gaal because he has not shown any real signs that he has had any input. He just seems to sit there doing whatever Van Gaal tells him to, and this is the man being considered as the next man utd job.
Scholes comes across like someone doing a fancam after a defeat. He isn't very articulated as someone above mentioned. I don't think we should be blinded by Scholes' comments. Yes, It might feel like 'he gets it' and knows what's wrong, but did he provide any answers or solutions? or did he just vent his frustrations. Didn't call for the manager to be sacked or replaced or provide any genuine alternatives.
He also is a bit of a hypocrite. He has no problem blaming Van Gaal or certain players for defeats and failures but he manages to always bypass the likes of Rooney, Carrick or Ryan Giggs, someone who was brought into because he 'gets united'.
You'd think he'd be instilling and doing all the things Scholes and most fans are talking about. However, Giggs has come across worse than Van Gaal because he has not shown any real signs that he has had any input. He just seems to sit there doing whatever Van Gaal tells him to, and this is the man being considered as the next man utd job.
Sorry, I can't take him seriously. Especially the comments he was making about Rooney. He's also been praising Carrick who has been poor. So basically slags off anyone who he isn't friends with.
No doubt he'd pipe down if Giggs ever takes over.
No doubt he'd pipe down if Giggs ever takes over.
There's not real insight. Even a blind dog can see that we're shite from top to bottom. He can say what he wants but everyone is basically saying the same thing.
He was right about Mata being made captain over Smalling, it was a ridiculous decision by van Gaal. He'd even said himself that Smalling was the third choice captain of the team so why was he overlooked for this match? It's almost like van Gaal was rewarding Mata for being sent off in the previous match.
The thing that he realizes that apparently no one else seems to is we already had a great style of playing football. And we spent so much money moving away from it for no reason. I agree that simply saying we need more passion doesn't mean anything. But hiring a manager to play in the footsteps of fergie would have been too smart.
The quote about Arsenal was WUMMery at its absolute finest.
Arsenal fans would've completely lost their shit at that.
Arsenal fans would've completely lost their shit at that.
Listen to it again, especially between about 8.00 and 13.00. He sets standards based on the 20 years of Ferguson Ferguson didn't come close to meeting himself. I like him, but as a pundit he's full of shit.
Anything but undying praise of your hero would be full of shit in your eyes.
Why can't you just admit that Van Gaal has been a complete failure here? Why do you feel the need to defend the undefendable?
Sorry, but how is this nonsense? Fergie won 13 of the last 21 leagues playing a particularly synonymous brand of football with English culture and is pretty much the cornerstone of the PL era. The bit in bold is particularly laughable, but continue with your underhanded "up-yours" to Sir Alex. Really classy that, lad.
I've been watching the PL religiously since around 1989 and I've not seen one team even come close to the risk-averse style that we've trotted out over the last two years. The current leaders and possible Champions come the end of the season will just be another argument in the column that possession/tactical football just doesn't work in this country and "keep it simple, stupid" football reigns supreme. The market conditions of "fight or be outfought" cannot be ignored. Surely this is a big light switch to the rest of the country that spending absurd sums of money instead of solving fundamental issues is not how you win domestic silverware.
So, by your logic if Sir Alex is such a massive, stingy tightwad who didn't spend enough money toward the end but still won league titles then surely he has to go down as one of the biggest managerial chancers in history? Right?
What he said about Rooney he's said numerous times about Martial. Almost word for word, not sure what he said about Carrick, mind. "He slags off anyone who he isn't friends with" is absurdly harsh. He'd pipe down if we showed a bit of ticker, he's a disgruntled fan who voices his opinion because he's made magic and lived inside the hallowed walls for 20 odd years.
But nah, he's an agenda driven bell-end talking ultrabollocks? Jesus wept.
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Yeah you can imagine the old dressing room atmosphere, they would be managing themselves almost, with most of the them demanding so much from each other after bad displays.
Our senior players these days surely couldn't say anything and be taken seriously, cause they're under performing more than the others.
Who knows how long it could take to fix this, if it even can be.
The same was true back in 2005.
I'm not worried about how Ferguson will go down in history at all. I'm worried about the future without Ferguson. Scholes seems to think that you can just hire a manager who imitates Ferguson and then United will be challenging for the PL and CL every year. That's nonsense of course, because Ferguson has retired and managers can't just copy a succesfull predecessor and have success too, especially in the case of Ferguson because he was very good. Actually, you could say United tried exactly that with Moyes, and it didn't work out.
It also won't work because challenging for the CL didn't really come off the in later years of Ferguson, and challenging for the title got more difficult every year. The last title had to be won at the expense of future development of the squad. Football evolves, and rivals learned from United's success, caught up and try to get past. The way football evolves, especially on the continent, produces more and more of the kind of football Ferguson's United had lots of problems with. First these problems were exposed by only the best of opposition in the CL, but even already in the early 2000's, later on even clubs with very limited money like Basel and Ajax managed to outplay United. I don't think that kind of football is the way forward and Ferguson's retirement should be used to adapt to how football is evolving.
That has proven to be even more difficult than anticipated, and the pace of the PL makes it impossible to just copy a style from some foreign club. You'll have to use the strengths of both and somehow combine them. That's why I'm not worried about Guardiola at all, he will have to adapt to the PL as much as the PL clubs will have to adapt if they have CL aspirations. Besides a lot of terrible matches, in the last 18 months we have also seen a minority of matches that proves it is possible to combine a more continental style with the pace of the PL, and Scholes ignores that just as he likes to ignore the problems Ferguson's United had with certain styles of football.
I agree, but it's nice to actually see some passion. It's just a massive shame we don't get any from any of the current players or staff.
Scholes has just said that he's been critical of the playing style - not the regime - and that he doesn't care who the manager is as long as we play in the United tradition.