Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK

[utdalltheway]

not my words, but I saw this on FB and it made me think.

“It cannot be overemphasised how screwed up it is that everyone knows Shamima Begum's name, but not the name of Yago Riedijk, the white adult male who groomed and married her when she was just 15.

Something to think about...“

What about Yago?
Whataboutery again. Ffs.
She wanted to go to Syria. Let her stay there. Sometimes we do stupid things as kids and we get away with it but sometimes those ‘things’ are big. Then you have to deal with the consequences.

 

[finneh]

As far as the UK government is concerned... yes, obviously. Their priority should always be the safety of UK citizens.

Also I would say any prison sentence served in the UK will serve to strengthen underlying extremist beliefs most of the time rather than reduce them. Although with the laughable state of our judicial system I doubt she'll even get a custodial sentence anyway.

So in the end it'll be a pure gamble as to whether she is just as brain dead and gullible as she appeared in those interviews, or whether she's a properly invested ideologue who's been putting on a bit of an act and will happily blow herself up at the first opportunity.

Could you imagine if the reverse situation was occurring. A Syrian citizen radicalised in Syria came to the UK with a view to committing these crimes and Syria stripped them of citizenship.

The same people would be apoplectic saying she needs to be deported back to where she came from and that she shouldn't be our problem. I don't see how you can have it both ways.

 

[NinjaFletch]

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More evidence that the Conservatives are literal fascists.

 

[The Boy]

That's giving the impression that she's a victim in all this. She's not.

What about Yago?
Whataboutery again. Ffs.
She wanted to go to Syria. Let her stay there. Sometimes we do stupid things as kids and we get away with it but sometimes those ‘things’ are big. Then you have to deal with the consequences.

If this was an Asian man that had groomed a white English girl, the rhetoric around this would be very different.

 

[11101]

If this was an Asian man that had groomed a white English girl, the rhetoric around this would be very different.

That has literally already happened, and the rhetoric is exactly the same.

 

[utdalltheway]

If this was an Asian man that had groomed a white English girl, the rhetoric around this would be very different.

From A Time to Kill (and in Matthew McConagheys's drawl): "....now imagine that girl is whiiiite".

Tbf I don't see the difference.
She made a stupid decision, backed it up on the Beeb and now she can live with those consequences.

 

[maniak]

This 20 year old girl must have superpowers or something.

 

[hobbers]

If this was an Asian man that had groomed a white English girl, the rhetoric around this would be very different.

An Asian man who grooms a white girl by plying her with gifts, getting her hooked on drugs and then lets his pals take turns raping her?

Little bit of a difference to ISIS recruiting girls to come over and marry their soldiers. It's not like the girls who went over there thought they were going to Disneyland. They're not victims. Absolutely no difference to the guys who went out there to fight: they knew what they were going for. It's obscene trying to put that in the same category of grooming as that done by sexual predators.

 

[oates]

An Asian man who grooms a white girl by plying her with gifts, getting her hooked on drugs and then lets his pals take turns raping her?

Little bit of a difference to ISIS recruiting girls to come over and marry their soldiers. It's not like the girls who went over there thought they were going to Disneyland. They're not victims. Absolutely no difference to the guys who went out there to fight: they knew what they were going for. It's obscene trying to put that in the same category of grooming as that done by sexual predators.

You're not the only one that thinks this way but there are others who feel differently too but I would agree, obviously it has no similarity to those groomed for sexual abuse and rape.

However some of us can believe it is possible that a 15 year old child was radicalised, a problem we have in the UK and one that has to be shared and defeated, The way to do that is not to imitate the harsh and cruel actions others, even those ISIS have and would take towards people they see as traitors and instead show why Britain and British Law is different.

Apart from that which shows us to be just and even handed is it so hard to imagine how easy it could be for someone more manipulative and cunning to pretend there might be a better life for a young asian girl, somewhere she isn't a target for white people's disdain, hate or the cruelty that asian people can be exposed to on a daily basis, a school child in particular? It might seem so very attractive to a girl such as Shamima, and what do any of us not exposed to any small part of hers and others lives truly know? It's easy for some of us to say that we have the strength of character to know what is right and wrong when we don't know anything about their lives or circumstances and further to that there have been people from white families and backgrounds to have travelled to join ISIS, do we know if they were or were not radicalised or groomed to join ISIS also?

Let her face British Courts, not politicians designs and Media led public judgement, she is British, not Bangladeshi or Syrian, let's not lie to ourselves or attempt to lie to others.

 

[Wibble]

You're not the only one that thinks this way but there are others who feel differently too but I would agree, obviously it has no similarity to those groomed for sexual abuse and rape.

However some of us can believe it is possible that a 15 year old child was radicalised, a problem we have in the UK and one that has to be shared and defeated, The way to do that is not to imitate the harsh and cruel actions others, even those ISIS have and would take towards people they see as traitors and instead show why Britain and British Law is different.

Apart from that which shows us to be just and even handed is it so hard to imagine how easy it could be for someone more manipulative and cunning to pretend there might be a better life for a young asian girl, somewhere she isn't a target for white people's disdain, hate or the cruelty that asian people can be exposed to on a daily basis, a school child in particular? It might seem so very attractive to a girl such as Shamima, and what do any of us not exposed to any small part of hers and others lives truly know? It's easy for some of us to say that we have the strength of character to know what is right and wrong when we don't know anything about their lives or circumstances and further to that there have been people from white families and backgrounds to have travelled to join ISIS, do we know if they were or were not radicalised or groomed to join ISIS also?

Let her face British Courts, not politicians designs and Media led public judgement, she is British, not Bangladeshi or Syrian, let's not lie to ourselves or attempt to lie to others.

I agree with almost everything there except I think that radicalisation involving underage girls ending up married into what is often little more than sexual slavery has many similarities to grooming for sexual abuse and rape. The manipulation of often vulnerable kids which ends up in sexual abuse is very similar. Basically the "drug" that provides the motivation is fanatical religion rather than alcohol/drugs but the need that these fill after manipulation isn't very different.

 

[oates]

I agree with almost everything there except I think that radicalisation involving underage girls ending up married into what is often little more than sexual slavery has many similarities to grooming for sexual abuse and rape. The manipulation of often vulnerable kids which ends up in sexual abuse is very similar. Basically the "drug" that provides the motivation is fanatical religion rather than alcohol/drugs but the need that these fill after manipulation isn't very different.

I think you are probably right to that extent Wibble. In my own mind I can imagine which is all it is until all of the details are brought out in a court, not just those details encouraged by the politicians, media and right wing hacks or even my own, that Shamima isn't the sharpest tool in the box, maybe a life being valued and married, having children in a muslim country might sound so much improved.

 

[utdalltheway]

Ok, at 15 she probably didn’t think clearly about the long term implications of her actions.
But she was interviewed in the camp when she was 19 or 20 and still she’s sounded like she was a supporter of the cause.
To me anyway, she could be a danger to the UK if she was left free there.

 

[Phil Jones Face]

Ok, at 15 she probably didn’t think clearly about the long term implications of her actions.
But she was interviewed in the camp when she was 19 or 20 and still she’s sounded like she was a supporter of the cause.
To me anyway, she could be a danger to the UK if she was left free there.

She didn't sound particularly remorseful in the camp interviews, that is true. But I'm not sure if too much can be taken away from that - she was sharing "accomodation" (if you can call it that) with hundreds of other ISIS supporters. She would have feared for her life if she publicly renounced ISIS.

 

[sammsky1]

An Asian man who grooms a white girl by plying her with gifts, getting her hooked on drugs and then lets his pals take turns raping her?

Little bit of a difference to ISIS recruiting girls to come over and marry their soldiers. It's not like the girls who went over there thought they were going to Disneyland. They're not victims. Absolutely no difference to the guys who went out there to fight: they knew what they were going for. It's obscene trying to put that in the same category of grooming as that done by sexual predators.

You make some very strong and certain assertions here. Im sure they are based on strong evidence, which I'd love to see.
Also do you know what specific circumstances this girl left behind?

I'm told that in grooming cases, it's assumed that a girl below 16 year olds can never be mature enough to make these decisions on their own. There are minors. Full Stop. No ifs and buts. So if that's the case, on what basis do you make the assumption that a 15 year old girl is mature enough and culpable for the decision to leave her family and join a terrorist organisation in another country, where she is married off to an adult male.

Looking forward.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

So should brown criminals never get coverage in case it riles that tiny minority of people in Britain First

Never is the polar opposite of excessive.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Skin colour has absolutely nothing to do with this. Not everything is about fecking race.

If she was white I’d be saying exactly the same thing. She is an enemy of the state. She gave up her rights when she joined ISIS and decided to fight against this country.

I’ve seen Plenty of examples of white Brits converting to Islam and then joining ISIS too. They deserve a bullet to the back of the head as well.

Have you? How many? How much media coverage did they get in comparison?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Well fecking said, mate! Knowing good old blighty, this monster will get behind bars a couple of wide screen tvs, unlimited supply of turkey twisters and one of those PlayStation 360 things, these days prisons are more like holiday camps. And before any of the libs on here say I'm talking bollocks........well one of my English mates was thrown in jail, yeah that's right he was literally thrown in jail just for saying his nationality. So I no what I is talking about here.

Back in the old days, we didn't stand for any this human rights nonsense. Back in the old days you constructed giant man like statue out of wicker, put the nearest funny sounding bloke at the top and set it alight. Back in the old days we didn't stand for PC culture things like citizenship and we were a better country for it!

Personally the only real justice for this Remain traitor is to have Queen Lizzy perform a traditional beheading and for the bloody homosexual Marxists at the BBC to broadcast it directly into my tax payer eyes. Give those ISIS lads a lesson in manners and shown them what a civilized society looks like.

Golden.

 

[Zarlak]

She is an enemy of the state. She gave up her rights when she joined ISIS and decided to fight against this country.

She didn't though. That's just knee jerk emotion on your part and your opinion which I can only imagine you've formed based on rationale/logic that society decided a while back was archaic and moved on from. The fact is, nobody gave up any rights.

 

[horsechoker]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...upreme-court-to-decide-next-week-on-uk-return

Shamima Begum: supreme court to decide next week on UK return

Begum, who fled to join Isis in Syria at 15, wants to return to challenge removal of her British citizenship

 

[esmufc07]

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[Pexbo]

This country is fecked. If that was a 14 year old blonde girl called Sarah Jones who had been groomed online and persuaded to join ISIS and fled to the Middle East, she would have been personally collected by Boris Johnson and brought back into the country on a Chinook for a photo opportunity.

 

[11101]

Excellent news.

 

[Pexbo]

Excellent news.

Fascist

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This country is fecked. If that was a 14 year old blonde girl called Sarah Jones who had been groomed online and persuaded to join ISIS and fled to the Middle East, she would have been personally collected by Boris Johnson and brought back into the country on a Chinook for a photo opportunity.

I don't know, they blew Sally-Anne Jones and her 12 year old kid up.

 

[Vidic_In_Moscow]

This country is fecked. If that was a 14 year old blonde girl called Sarah Jones who had been groomed online and persuaded to join ISIS and fled to the Middle East, she would have been personally collected by Boris Johnson and brought back into the country on a Chinook for a photo opportunity.

ISIS sympathiser.

 

[Gehrman]

My sympathy for a girl who went off to join a sadistic death cult couldn't be lower. I'm baffled that there is any outrage over this. Surprised there are any Isis sympathizers here at all. If I had joined Isis at 15, I would have expected to be thrown off a cliff. Doing something silly when you are 15 would be dropping out of school and doing drugs. Joining ISIS is crossing a line where there is point of no return.

 

[11101]

I don't know, they blew Sally-Anne Jones and her 12 year old kid up.

And the white, Oxford born Jack Letts had his citizenship revoked after years of refusals to extradite him from the Middle East.

 

[Pexbo]

I don't know, they blew Sally-Anne Jones and her 12 year old kid up.

She was a 48 year old woman who was killed by an American drone strike, a bit different no? We are talking about a minor who was groomed online with promises of paradise before finding out and living through the absolute hell and horrors of ISIS who has since realised how wrong and naive she was.

She’s a British citizen, she was born in Britain and raised in Britain. She’s Britain’s responsibility. I’m not saying all should be forgiven and forgotten but she should be brought back to this country and dealt with appropriately, de-radicalisation, criminal charges, whatever needs be. To just wash your hands of a citizen of your own country is absolutely pathetic.

 

[horsechoker]

What happens now?

I doubt Bangladesh are going to rush to give her citizenship.

 

[Pexbo]

And the white, Oxford born Jack Letts had his citizenship revoked after years of refusals to extradite him from the Middle East.

Jack Letts was an adult when he left the country and continued to present his extremist views. He also held dual-citizenship so would not have been left stateless like she is.

 

[VeevaVee]

She probably thinks shoe sizes don’t matter as well

 

[LuisNaniencia]

She probably thinks shoe sizes don’t matter as well

 

[Spoony]

On what basis have they revoked her citizenship?

 

[Baxter]

She was a 48 year old woman who was killed by an American drone strike, a bit different no? We are talking about a minor who was groomed online with promises of paradise before finding out and living through the absolute hell and horrors of ISIS who has since realised how wrong and naive she was.

She’s a British citizen, she was born in Britain and raised in Britain. She’s Britain’s responsibility. I’m not saying all should be forgiven and forgotten but she should be brought back to this country and dealt with appropriately, de-radicalisation, criminal charges, whatever needs be. To just wash your hands of a citizen of your own country is absolutely pathetic.

Agree 100% with this. Amazed that they’ve ruled this way.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

She was a 48 year old woman who was killed by an American drone strike, a bit different no? We are talking about a minor who was groomed online with promises of paradise before finding out and living through the absolute hell and horrors of ISIS who has since realised how wrong and naive she was.

She’s a British citizen, she was born in Britain and raised in Britain. She’s Britain’s responsibility. I’m not saying all should be forgiven and forgotten but she should be brought back to this country and dealt with appropriately, de-radicalisation, criminal charges, whatever needs be. To just wash your hands of a citizen of your own country is absolutely pathetic.

I think that she should be brought back but I'm very sceptical that if Sally-Anne Jones hadn't been killed and was sat in the same camp right now with her blond haired blue eyed white 15 year old son that he'd have been brought back into the country by virtue of his whiteness. I think they'd be in exactly the same position Begum is.

 

[Baxter]

On what basis have they revoked her citizenship?

National Security.

 

[horsechoker]

On what basis have they revoked her citizenship?

Eating a meal?! A Chinese meal?!

 

[fergies coat]

No sympathy what so ever. Anyone playing the race card in here is an idiot. You mature enough at 15 to know joining an extremist group to kill multiple people is wrong.

 

[africanspur]

My sympathy for a girl who went off to join a sadistic death cult couldn't be lower. I'm baffled that there is any outrage over this. Surprised there are any Isis sympathizers here at all. If I had joined Isis at 15, I would have expected to be thrown off a cliff. Doing something silly when you are 15 would be dropping out of school and doing drugs. Joining ISIS is crossing a line where there is point of no return.

Don't be hyperbolic ffs, nobody here is an ISIS sympathiser.

What there is is some concern about the precedent set by revoking someone's nationality, who was born in the country, leaving them stateless and the slightly unpleasant taste in the mouth by the lingering feeling that the same potentially would't have happened to a white British born person.

The government themselves opened themselves up to this particular line of reasoning by claiming she could be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent, which obviously fundamentally means we're always going to be seen as a bit different to the 'local' population, even if we are ourselves born in the UK.

She herself is a despicable individual.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Don't think she helped herself doing that interview a few years ago saying the Manchester Arena terrorist attack was justified and she was fine with all the severed heads in bins where she lived. Came across like she wasn't really sorry for what she'd done.