Music Taylor Swift

lsd

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GhastlyHun said:
:lol:
It just seems she's everywhere and i certainly have heard her songs played somewhere, but i just cant associate any song with her name.


Okay now there is one - i heard that one because of the video with the cop in the car, but until a minute ago i didn't know it was a TS song :D
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I only know shake it off and that's because i saw the Rock do it on lip sync.

Other than that I've never heard a taylor swift song or saw a video of her.

If you don't want to hear her it's pretty easy. I do watch NFL so unfortunately i have to see her quite often but it's a small price to pay.
 

CoopersDream

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Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, exactly. And I almost find it arrogant to try and claim all opinions are equal and if I like something then you can’t say it isn’t good. There’s a load of great art that doesn’t align with my personal tastes and I’m fond of movies and music (can I mention The Frames here?!) that I would never claim to be objectively great. It’s ok to have low brow tastes. Just don’t try and pretend what you like is better than it really is just because lots of other people also like it.
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That all opinions are equal in what way? There's certainly art that some are more qualified to criticize or whatever. Pop music generally is not that kind of art though. The idea that people that consumes loads of pop music aren't qualified, or that their opinion actually isn't worth as much, is quite ridiculous. Even so, how do you think stuff like The Dark Side of the Moon or The Godfather reached their reputation? Do you think it was that there was someone, say an authority on film and music, that decided they are among the greatest of all time and then everyone just nodded along because it was 'considered' objectively great? Or do you think it is because enough people think so and thus there are a sort of consensus on these things? Hint hint, it's the latter.

Saying that people who likes something you don't consider to be good (or be void of quality or whatever) has 'low brow tastes' seems a bit tactless, as I can guarantee you that millions of people who thinks this are extermely well versed in music.
 
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amolbhatia50k

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CoopersDream said:
That all opinions are equal in what way? There's certainly art that some are more qualified to criticize or whatever. Pop music generally is not that kind of art though. The idea that people that consumes loads of pop music aren't qualified, or that their opinion actually isn't worth as much, is quite ridiculous. Even so, how do you think stuff like The Dark Side of the Moon or The Godfather reached their reputation? Do you think it was that there was someone, say an authority on film and music, that decided they are among the greatest of all time and then everyone just nodded along because it was 'considered' objectively great? Or do you think it is because enough people think so and thus there are a sort of consensus on these things? Hint hint, it's the latter.

Saying that people who likes something you don't consider to be good (or be void of quality or whatever) has 'low brow tastes' seems a bit tactless, as I can guarantee you that millions of people who thinks this are extermely well versed in music.
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It happens all over the world. Here in India the biggest blockbuster movie hits are usually the absolutely brainless action flicks (and I’m a fan of the genuine greats of this genre) with little acting and even lesser script. The example of marvel films has been given - they’re mostly trash. Some of the most profitable games are things like Call of Duty and Fortnite. When I was growing up the biggest musical acts (post MJ era) were BackStreet Boys, Britney Spears etc

Again it depends on perspective. If we’re talking about genuine excellence, you won’t find it in the above. But from a layman perspective obviously these things all do something well as they appeal to a certain need people have. So yes you absolutely can make a distinction between popular good and genuinely great. The logic of “Godfather popular hence great” and “Avengers popular hence great” is actually a terrible one that makes no sense because pieces of art are popular for different reasons and exist for different purposes. You cannot compare Justin Bieber’s ”Baby” or TS “Shake it Off” with the complexity of a Stairway to Heaven for example. Popularity should neither be an automatic seal of greatness or a denial of it. I’ve cited here many times that MJ was both insanely popular and insanely talented. Swift is anything but - on a musical scale she is closer to the bland generic artists just dialed to a 100 due to great marketing / relatability / packaging.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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amolbhatia50k said:
It happens all over the world. Here in India the biggest blockbuster movie hits are usually the absolutely brainless action flicks (and I’m a fan of the genuine greats of this genre) with little acting and even lesser script. The example of marvel films has been given - they’re mostly trash. Some of the most profitable games are things like Call of Duty and Fortnite. When I was growing up the biggest musical acts (post MJ era) were BackStreet Boys, Britney Spears etc

Again it depends on perspective. If we’re talking about genuine excellence, you won’t find it in the above. But from a layman perspective obviously these things all do something well as they appeal to a certain need people have. So yes you absolutely can make a distinction between popular good and genuinely great. The logic of “Godfather popular hence great” and “Avengers popular hence great” is actually a terrible one that makes no sense because pieces of art are popular for different reasons and exist for different purposes. You cannot compare Justin Bieber’s ”Baby” or TS “Shake it Off” with the complexity of a Stairway to Heaven for example. Popularity should neither be an automatic seal of greatness or a denial of it. I’ve cited here many times that MJ was both insanely popular and insanely talented. Swift is anything but - on a musical scale she is closer to the bland generic artists just dialed to a 100 due to great marketing / relatability / packaging.
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You are objectively wrong here. TS sings, plays guitar, and piano, has written songs in genres of country, pop, folk, modern dance. Unless you're saying not one artist in any of those genres is insanely talented, then this is further evidence you are wrong. There are many musical acts I don't like in the least, but I objectively realize they have achieved greatness, examples being everyone from Soundgarden to Jay Z to Garth Brooks to Muse. I don't like any of those bands' material, but I'm not going to say no one in the hard rock or art rock category has ever been insanely talented or great, which is what your argument amounts to. At most you can say you don't like Taylor Swift, which is fair.
 
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amolbhatia50k

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Wing Attack Plan R said:
You are objectively wrong here. TS sings, plays guitar, and piano, has written songs in genres of country, pop, folk, modern dance. Unless you're saying not one artist in any of those genres is insanely talented, then this is further evidence you are wrong. There are many musical acts I don't like in the least, but I objectively realize they have achieved greatness, examples being everyone from Soundgarden to Guns 'n' Roses to Metallica to Muse. I don't like any of those bands' material, but I'm not going to say no one in the hard rock or art rock category has ever been insanely talented or great, which is what your argument amounts to. At most you can say you don't like Taylor Swift, which is fair.
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At most I can say a lot more than I’ve already said and I’d still be objectively right. Sings, plays guitar and piano? Random people on YouTube do that too - it isn’t a tall claim. She’s co-written a lot of music and most of it is generic, bang average fluff.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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amolbhatia50k said:
At most I can say a lot more than I’ve already said and I’d still be objectively right. Sings, plays guitar and piano? Random people on YouTube do that too - it isn’t a tall claim. She’s co-written a lot of music and most of it is generic, bang average fluff.
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You can’t claim someone is talentless after it’s been pointed out ad nauseum that she plays two instruments fluently and sings well enough to have won a record number of Grammys and made millions from her talent. You attempt to discredit her by saying she “co-wrote” her songs, which is some weird fecking misogyny going on. I mistakenly thought you weren’t a bang average troll writing fluff. You are literally being a troll by attempting to stir things up in a thread ostensibly for fans of the thread topic. If you don’t like her, why are you in this thread? Why do you care what other people like? Are you 12? Don’t need to answer , you’re on ignore.
 
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amolbhatia50k

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Wing Attack Plan R said:
You can’t claim someone is talentless after it’s been pointed out ad nauseum that she plays two instruments fluently and sings well enough to have won a record number of Grammys and made millions from her talent. You attempt to discredit her by saying she “co-wrote” her songs, which is some weird fecking misogyny going on. I mistakenly thought you weren’t a bang average troll writing fluff. You are literally being a troll by attempting to stir things up in a thread ostensibly for fans of the thread topic. If you don’t like her, why are you in this thread? Why do you care what other people like? Are you 12? Don’t need to answer , you’re on ignore.
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Well that’s not a very mature reply. The fandom seems to be messing with your circuitry. Also not / anything but insanely talented does not equate to talentless. All artists have talent - that’s blatantly obvious. But you wouldn’t realise that amidst all the fumes resonating from your nostrils.
 

CoopersDream

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amolbhatia50k said:
It happens all over the world. Here in India the biggest blockbuster movie hits are usually the absolutely brainless action flicks (and I’m a fan of the genuine greats of this genre) with little acting and even lesser script. The example of marvel films has been given - they’re mostly trash. Some of the most profitable games are things like Call of Duty and Fortnite. When I was growing up the biggest musical acts (post MJ era) were BackStreet Boys, Britney Spears etc

Again it depends on perspective. If we’re talking about genuine excellence, you won’t find it in the above. But from a layman perspective obviously these things all do something well as they appeal to a certain need people have. So yes you absolutely can make a distinction between popular good and genuinely great. The logic of “Godfather popular hence great” and “Avengers popular hence great” is actually a terrible one that makes no sense because pieces of art are popular for different reasons and exist for different purposes. You cannot compare Justin Bieber’s ”Baby” or TS “Shake it Off” with the complexity of a Stairway to Heaven for example. Popularity should neither be an automatic seal of greatness or a denial of it. I’ve cited here many times that MJ was both insanely popular and insanely talented. Swift is anything but - on a musical scale she is closer to the bland generic artists just dialed to a 100 due to great marketing / relatability / packaging.
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Yes, I know that popular doesn't equal good. But again, those popular things are usually not popular a sustained period of time, they have their time and then they get replaced with something else. See Britney, Gaga, Perry, Transformers, YA movies, etc etc. Even Marvel movies have lost a huge chunk of their audience at this point. However, if something sustain popularity over a long time it actually is an indication that it's not garbage. It really, really is.

I'm not saying that 'Godfather popular hence great'. I'm saying it's considered great because enough people thinks it is that good, there's a consensus around it. Marvel movies are not considered great becaue there's no such consensus around them. There's no way to objectively determine quality of art, but if enough of subjective opinions agree there will be a consensus that something is of a certain quality.

As for the comparing pop songs with Stairway, they don't really set out to do that, that's not what they want to achieve, so comparing them in that way makes no sense. It's like saying that a screwball comedy can never be as good as a good 3 hour character study because it will never be as good a character study. There's still an art to making good screwball comedies just as it is for pop music.

Lastly, Taylor Swift is extremely talented. Indeed, she probably isn't a very talented writer of blues rock or progressive rock, but she's an incredibly talented writer of pop music. That much is pretty much fact at this point.
 
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Wing Attack Plan R

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Moby said:
of all examples to bring up a plagiarized song :lol:
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It’s such a stupid fecking argument, and it’s one Ive heard my whole life. From punk rock to industrial to trance to whatever, someone is always comparing apples to oranges. “How can you listen to Killing Joke when you can’t dance to their songs!” “Jello Biafra can’t hold a tune!” And at the end of the day I’ve never understood why someone goes out of their way to criticize something that another person likes. Maybe in junior high school it made sense, but after that, why would I care if someone doesn’t share my tastes in music? Sometimes it’s a platform for turning someone onto something they hadn’t heard or liked or understood before: I love sharing music with people, so if someone says they are unfamiliar with a certain genre or artist, I can make them a playlist. Someone just wants to troll - and theoretically coming from a superior position - dude can go feck himself.
 
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BD

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amolbhatia50k said:
You cannot compare Justin Bieber’s ”Baby” or TS “Shake it Off” with the complexity of a Stairway to Heaven for example. Popularity should neither be an automatic seal of greatness or a denial of it. I’ve cited here many times that MJ was both insanely popular and insanely talented. Swift is anything but - on a musical scale she is closer to the bland generic artists just dialed to a 100 due to great marketing / relatability / packaging.
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I could just as easily rephrase this paragraph comparing the complexity of Stairway To Heaven to the complexity of Dies Irae from Verdi's Requeim and conclude that Led Zeppelin, and their fans, are basic bitches who know nothing about real music.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Wing Attack Plan R said:
It’s such a stupid fecking argument, and it’s one Ive heard my whole life. From punk rock to industrial to trance to whatever, someone is always comparing apples to oranges. “How can you listen to Killing Joke when you can’t dance to their songs!” “Jello Biafra can’t hold a tune!” And at the end of the day I’ve never understood why someone goes out of their way to criticize something that another person likes. Maybe in junior high school it made sense, but after that, dude why would I care what anyone thinks about my tastes in music? Sometimes it’s a platform for turning someone into something they hadn’t heard or liked or understood before: I love sharing music with people, so if someone says they are unfamiliar with a certain genre or artist, I can make them a playlist. Someone just wants to troll - and theoretically coming from a superior position - dude can go feck himself.
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I mean criticising anything will usually involve criticising something someone likes. I think it’s great if you can appreciate different genres but at the same time, it’s fine to acknowledge the difference in skill involved in different genres or styles. Open Gangnam Style isnt anywhere in the same stratosphere of musicianship as some of Bon Iver or Fiona Apple or Joanna Newsom’s great music. It just seems people here are feigning shock at the idea of, like human beings, musicians not being equals in terms of skill.

CoopersDream said:
As for the comparing pop songs with Stairway, they don't really set out to do that, that's not what they want to achieve, so comparing them in that way makes no sense. It's like saying that a screwball comedy can never be as good as a good 3 hour character study because it will never be as good a character study. There's still an art to making good screwball comedies just as it is for pop music.

Lastly, Taylor Swift is extremely talented. Indeed, she isn't a very talented writer of blues rock or progressive rock, but she's an incredibly talented writer of pop music. That much is pretty much fact at this point.
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Yes she’s better at doing something which doesn’t take as much skill - musically speaking at least. I agree that Pop songs don’t set out to do that but it doesn’t change the argument. Adam Sandler’s movies don’t set out for creative greatness as Scorsese films do - it’s fine to appreciate both but one is definitely on a much higher creative plane. I’m not even a big fan of Zeppelin. Their sound was incredible but I lost a lot of respect after all the blatant plagiarism. Swift is okay songwriter, great at marking / business though.
 

amolbhatia50k

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BD said:
I could just as easily rephrase this paragraph comparing the complexity of Stairway To Heaven to the complexity of Dies Irae from Verdi's Requeim and conclude that Led Zeppelin, and their fans, are basic bitches who know nothing about real music.
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I will take that as a recommendation. Hoepfully it’s good.
 

CoopersDream

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amolbhatia50k said:
Yes she’s better at doing something which doesn’t take as much skill - musically speaking at least. I agree that Pop songs don’t set out to do that but it doesn’t change the argument. Adam Sandler’s movies don’t set out for creative greatness as Scorsese films do - it’s fine to appreciate both but one is definitely on a much higher creative plane. I’m not even a big fan of Zeppelin. Their sound was incredible but I lost a lot of respect after all the blatant plagiarism. Swift is okay songwriter, great at marking / business though.
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You're telling me that writing good pop tunes doesn't take much skill? Tell that to the millions of aspiring songwriters in the genre that, while being better than Taylor at singing or playing guitar, are mediocre songwriters. It's not that it takes less skill, it takes different skills.

Sandler's movies doesn't hold up against other movies in the same genre, it's not the fact that Jack and Jill isn't as good as Goodfellas it's that it's shit compared just about any comedy out there. In fact, I'd argue making good comedies is just as difficult as making good dramas. There's certainly much less genuinely good comedies out there as there are dramas. And making comedies that stands the test of time is incredibly difficult and cerainly just as difficult as what Scorsese does.
 

RedRocket08

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amolbhatia50k said:
It happens all over the world. Here in India the biggest blockbuster movie hits are usually the absolutely brainless action flicks (and I’m a fan of the genuine greats of this genre) with little acting and even lesser script. The example of marvel films has been given - they’re mostly trash. Some of the most profitable games are things like Call of Duty and Fortnite. When I was growing up the biggest musical acts (post MJ era) were BackStreet Boys, Britney Spears etc

Again it depends on perspective. If we’re talking about genuine excellence, you won’t find it in the above. But from a layman perspective obviously these things all do something well as they appeal to a certain need people have. So yes you absolutely can make a distinction between popular good and genuinely great. The logic of “Godfather popular hence great” and “Avengers popular hence great” is actually a terrible one that makes no sense because pieces of art are popular for different reasons and exist for different purposes. You cannot compare Justin Bieber’s ”Baby” or TS “Shake it Off” with the complexity of a Stairway to Heaven for example. Popularity should neither be an automatic seal of greatness or a denial of it. I’ve cited here many times that MJ was both insanely popular and insanely talented. Swift is anything but - on a musical scale she is closer to the bland generic artists just dialed to a 100 due to great marketing / relatability / packaging.
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Not usually a fan of Indian cinema but I watched RRR with my wife the other day, loved it tbh and now we're watching this Netflix series called Kaala Paani which is superb as well!

On the music front though, I love Taylor's music (Not a fan of most of the new pop artists since the 2010s, aside from Taylor, Billy Eilish, Weeknd, a couple Dua Lipa songs, and Bruno Mars perhaps) and but I also listen to a wide variety of music that ranges from Pop, Oldies (60s - 90s), Classical, a bit of gangsta rap, deep house, new metal, old metal etc. Lately I've been listening to a bit of Thrash metal, a bit of classical, a bit of new age Synth wave, classic hits, and a bit of traditional fusion (Namely bands called Tinariwen and The Hu).

Would I pay to see Swift live though? No, I'd rather go watch bands like Guns n Roses (Saw them in Sydney some time back), Eagles (Also saw them in Sydney), Metallica/Maiden (some of my all time great bands that I haven't seen live) and the Hu (Also on my watchlist to go see live). That's nothing against Swift, I just prefer the atmospheres of rock concerts or EDM festivals or even a classical orchestra night to pop acts.

All from Taylor Swift, to Led Zep, to Megadeth are fantastic artists though in my book and I go to those different artists depending on my mood / what I'm doing - I quite like Shake it off haha (Not my favourite song of hers though), while Stairway is probably a top 10 song for me, but I'm not that into MJ/Madonna for example and prefer Taylor's music! I wouldn't say she's as naturally gifted as someone like a Whitney Houston, Dion, Adele, or Winehouse but I'd say you have to rank Taylor high up there when it comes to all time great solo female pop artists.
 
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Samid

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Not a song that makes my Tay top 100 but one the keyboard grandpas in this thread could benefit from hearing. Y'all need to calm down.

 

Samid

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Scarlett Dracarys said:
Do you think she can fight? She looks like she'll get her ass kicked in a real fight.
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She has never had a burrito because her mom was adamant that “no one wants to see a fat pop star” so my guess is no. But with the army she has built she’ll never have to find out.
 

Redplane

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Samid said:
She has never had a burrito because her mom was adamant that “no one wants to see a fat pop star” so my guess is no. But with the army she has built she’ll never have to find out.
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Deep state!
Demonrat!
I knew she was the woke disciple of Soros here to destroy the world with her liberal agenda. /S
 

Moby

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Redplane said:
Tbf way more people would know about Taylor Swift than BTS (outside of Asia anyway).
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:lol:

Anyway despite having had the thought a couple of times I'm just gonna refrain discussing any K-Gods here where people are still talking about Stairway to Heaven. :lol:

Too busy celebrating the Le Sserafim comeback Day 2. EASY. :drool:
 
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