Westminster Politics

Jippy

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Providing there was no coercision and both are consenting adults this is a completely puritanical outlook that gives women no responsibility for their own decision making. She's had an affair with him because she's attracted to the power and the strings he can pull for her. She's got upset when she realised she didn't get the payout she thought the affair granted her. She has no one to blame but herself

If it comes out there was coercion/force/bullying I would retract that. But as there hasn't it's simply 2 consenting adults and nothing to see. Also she wants to slut shame Borris but wants to hide behind anonymity. It's bordering revenge porn.
Even in this take on events it further highlights the moral bankruptcy in the senior echelons of the Tory party and their readiness to abuse their positions of power for personal gain.
 

foolsgold

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Aren't politicians supposed to be experts at diplomacy? As in not having to use obscene sign language to communicate?
No mate, you're thinking about diplomats, politicians are the representatives of the people and some of them are going to be a bit flawed and that's ok.

I'm not a fan of the tories at all, but I can at least emphaise with someone that pushes back a bit of abuse. I don't really get the desire for MPs to be saintly / turn the other cheek figures all the time. If you give it out, you can expect a bit back.
 

Peter van der Gea

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No mate, you're thinking about diplomats, politicians are the representatives of the people and some of them are going to be a bit flawed and that's ok.

I'm not a fan of the tories at all, but I can at least emphaise with someone that pushes back a bit of abuse. I don't really get the desire for MPs to be saintly / turn the other cheek figures all the time. If you give it out, you can expect a bit back.
But this is a minister, charged with negotiating budgets, staff and engagement with other departments and private businesses, include those from abroad. That's diplomacy.

If this is how they negotiate, no wonder we're seeing strikes across the board.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Providing there was no coercision and both are consenting adults this is a completely puritanical outlook that gives women no responsibility for their own decision making. She's had an affair with him because she's attracted to the power and the strings he can pull for her. She's got upset when she realised she didn't get the payout she thought the affair granted her. She has no one to blame but herself

If it comes out there was coercion/force/bullying I would retract that. But as there hasn't it's simply 2 consenting adults and nothing to see. Also she wants to slut shame Borris but wants to hide behind anonymity. It's bordering revenge porn.
There is a massive power disparity between the two.

You have no idea of the details but yet assume she is "attracted to power" rather than being manipulate or lied to by one of the he biggest liars in UK politics?

What has led you to this conclusion? Reading the Daily Mail maybe...
 

Flying high

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No mate, you're thinking about diplomats, politicians are the representatives of the people and some of them are going to be a bit flawed and that's ok.

I'm not a fan of the tories at all, but I can at least emphaise with someone that pushes back a bit of abuse. I don't really get the desire for MPs to be saintly / turn the other cheek figures all the time. If you give it out, you can expect a bit back.
Okay, but isn't it reasonable to expect the education secretary to summon a better zinger than a 6 year old in a playground? After all, that's twice in a few days she's been caught on camera with this level of childish respone.
 

TwoSheds

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No mate, you're thinking about diplomats, politicians are the representatives of the people and some of them are going to be a bit flawed and that's ok.

I'm not a fan of the tories at all, but I can at least emphaise with someone that pushes back a bit of abuse. I don't really get the desire for MPs to be saintly / turn the other cheek figures all the time. If you give it out, you can expect a bit back.
She claims it's because she got abuse but it's actually because she's angry that her gravy train has hit the buffers. Someone as talentless and unlikeable as her won't be getting the same opportunities under the next leader, that's why the likes of her and Dorries are so upset.
 

VP89

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ThehatchetMan

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Who are your favourite Tories past and present? Surely got to be a few ok ones in there?

Im too young to remember him as PM but for a Tory I quite like John Major. He has regularly held this Tory government to account in recent years and is usually one of the first to call them out.
 

Reiver

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If it wasn't for the fact that we won't have a functioning Government until its resolved, the Tory leadership contest/debacle would be great fun.
 

Fluctuation0161

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If it wasn't for the fact that we won't have a functioning Government until its resolved, the Tory leadership contest/debacle would be great fun.
We had a government functioning to syphon money away from the tax payers into private companies before this, so we haven't lost anything!
 

NotThatSoph

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Providing there was no coercision and both are consenting adults this is a completely puritanical outlook that gives women no responsibility for their own decision making. She's had an affair with him because she's attracted to the power and the strings he can pull for her. She's got upset when she realised she didn't get the payout she thought the affair granted her. She has no one to blame but herself

If it comes out there was coercion/force/bullying I would retract that. But as there hasn't it's simply 2 consenting adults and nothing to see. Also she wants to slut shame Borris but wants to hide behind anonymity. It's bordering revenge porn.
Is that where MeToo is 2022?
 

Buster15

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Who are your favourite Tories past and present? Surely got to be a few ok ones in there?

Im too young to remember him as PM but for a Tory I quite like John Major. He has regularly held this Tory government to account in recent years and is usually one of the first to call them out.
John Major might be good at calling his party out now but he was a weak PM. And to be honest I can not really remember that much about him apart from his alleged affair with Edwina Curry. Rather him than me.
 

Maticmaker

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Who are your favourite Tories past and present? Surely got to be a few ok ones in there?

Im too young to remember him as PM but for a Tory I quite like John Major. He has regularly held this Tory government to account in recent years and is usually one of the first to call them out.


Pity he didn't hold his own Government to account... became depicted as the 'Grey man' PM (Spitting Image puppet)... still his premiership gave way to Tony Blair's 3 straight Labour wins, so maybe his popping up again is a good sign...for somebody!!
 

Simbo

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Was round my folks' this afternoon. We hadn't even started talking politics yet and completely out of the blue my dad goes "Have you been watching that Talk TV channel?". Oh gawd. "Its great, they just let anyone ring up to ask any question and they answer it."

I don't even know what Talk TV is at this point, but I can imagine. Of course its Rupert Murdoch's new right wing channel that Piers Morgan has run off to.

"They are completely un-bias" he says, while in almost the next breath going "They had that Michael Heseltine on trying to talk about why brexit was bad, but they wouldn't let him speak!" while chuckling happily...

Apparently he heard about it at his bridge club, where people (all 70+) were saying they were addicted to it, now he's obsessed with it as well.
 

Stanley Road

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I see all the new candidates are preaching lower tax economics, when the feck will they learn. I'll stick with my 40+ % tax and enjoy better services thank you. What sort of cnuts live in the UK now?
 

Flying high

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I see all the new candidates are preaching lower tax economics, when the feck will they learn. I'll stick with my 40+ % tax and enjoy better services thank you. What sort of cnuts live in the UK now?
I haven't seen a single news outlet challenge them on the implications of their lower taxes. We already have health and education hanging by a thread in many cases.
 

Wibble

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Providing there was no coercision and both are consenting adults this is a completely puritanical outlook that gives women no responsibility for their own decision making. She's had an affair with him because she's attracted to the power and the strings he can pull for her. She's got upset when she realised she didn't get the payout she thought the affair granted her. She has no one to blame but herself

If it comes out there was coercion/force/bullying I would retract that. But as there hasn't it's simply 2 consenting adults and nothing to see. Also she wants to slut shame Borris but wants to hide behind anonymity. It's bordering revenge porn.
The sheer power inequality makes it impossible that this was "simply 2 consenting adults and nothing to see".
 

ThehatchetMan

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John Major might be good at calling his party out now but he was a weak PM. And to be honest I can not really remember that much about him apart from his alleged affair with Edwina Curry. Rather him than me.
Pity he didn't hold his own Government to account... became depicted as the 'Grey man' PM (Spitting Image puppet)... still his premiership gave way to Tony Blair's 3 straight Labour wins, so maybe his popping up again is a good sign...for somebody!!
I was too young to have any memory or recollection of his time in power. I just feel when he has spoken up in recent years he seems a bit more balanced and palatable.

What Tory’s would you both say are more palatable?
 

Beans

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Was round my folks' this afternoon. We hadn't even started talking politics yet and completely out of the blue my dad goes "Have you been watching that Talk TV channel?". Oh gawd. "Its great, they just let anyone ring up to ask any question and they answer it."

I don't even know what Talk TV is at this point, but I can imagine. Of course its Rupert Murdoch's new right wing channel that Piers Morgan has run off to.

"They are completely un-bias" he says, while in almost the next breath going "They had that Michael Heseltine on trying to talk about why brexit was bad, but they wouldn't let him speak!" while chuckling happily...

Apparently he heard about it at his bridge club, where people (all 70+) were saying they were addicted to it, now he's obsessed with it as well.
So it's like role-playing? I mean, if you're just gonna talk over the guest, it's not about competing arguments, it's about the catharsis of seeing someone you disagree with getting bullied by someone championing a cause you support.

It's like they are imagining themselves talking over that naive young relative that called them out on their hypocrisy last Christmas, "That's what I would have said if my dementia didn't prevent me from making congent arguments."
 

Jippy

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I haven't seen a single news outlet challenge them on the implications of their lower taxes. We already have health and education hanging by a thread in many cases.
Indeed and the likes of the Sun are saying they're all 'vowing to cut crippling taxes'.
Javid saying he'll cut the NI raise, which he called 'fair' and 'right' in April underlines how the good of the country's finances are the last thing on any of their minds.
 

Buster15

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I was too young to have any memory or recollection of his time in power. I just feel when he has spoken up in recent years he seems a bit more balanced and palatable.

What Tory’s would you both say are more palatable?
I honestly can't think of any. And that is not me being biased.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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John Major might be good at calling his party out now but he was a weak PM. And to be honest I can not really remember that much about him apart from his alleged affair with Edwina Curry. Rather him than me.
I was too young to remember Major's time as PM. From what I gather the Tories were basically finished after Black Wednesday in September 1992 and putting VAT on fuel at the next budget, with Labour opening up consistent 20 point leads in the polls.

It does seem to me though that the Major-Clarke-Heseltine led administration in the mid 90s, was still far better / nowhere near as bad than / as the Cameron-Osborne-Clegg led one from 2010 onwards with excessive austerity galore.

Re the leadership, how many people had actually heard of Rehman Chishti before? Surely he's standing to ruin the chances of candidates that he doesn't like.
 

Pexbo

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I was too young to remember Major's time as PM. From what I gather the Tories were basically finished after Black Wednesday in September 1992 and putting VAT on fuel at the next budget, with Labour opening up consistent 20 point leads in the polls.

It does seem to me though that the Major-Clarke-Heseltine led administration in the mid 90s, was still far better / nowhere near as bad than / as the Cameron-Osborne-Clegg led one from 2010 onwards with excessive austerity galore.

Re the leadership, how many people had actually heard of Rehman Chishti before? Surely he's standing to ruin the chances of candidates that he doesn't like.
He will end up in the cabinet o the eventual winner if he plays it correctly. That will be his intention.
 

Jippy

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I was too young to remember Major's time as PM. From what I gather the Tories were basically finished after Black Wednesday in September 1992 and putting VAT on fuel at the next budget, with Labour opening up consistent 20 point leads in the polls.

It does seem to me though that the Major-Clarke-Heseltine led administration in the mid 90s, was still far better / nowhere near as bad than / as the Cameron-Osborne-Clegg led one from 2010 onwards with excessive austerity galore.

Re the leadership, how many people had actually heard of Rehman Chishti before? Surely he's standing to ruin the chances of candidates that he doesn't like.
I'd have said Ken Clarke was a decent Tory, but I remember saying that to my local Labour MP, in a brief doorstep chat, and he said he couldn't forgive him for helping to disassemble the NHS back in the day.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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On the Andrea Jenkyns thing, I really can't get with all the pearl clutching going on, there was a group of people shouting abuse, she gave them the finger. Too bad, if you dish it out, you're gonna get a little bit back.
It upsets me that you have a vote.

Try to live in reality. I doubt many on the street knew who she was. Nobody was shouting abuse at her. It’s clear as day. She gave the finger to a crowd like a child, people then went mad.

You are advocating for the crowd if you actually operate in the reality everyone else is.

All this leaving aside the fact that she works for us. If most of the country is booing the exit of the worst PM we’ve ever had, she would do well to try and work out why she’s still backing him? Though doing so would see her have to snap back to base reality too.