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That's what I thought too Sweet, the figures talked about for school building spending were little more than required for emergency short term repairs. We'll see tomorrow I suppose.
 

Sweet Square

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That's what I thought too Sweet, the figures talked about for school building spending were little more than required for emergency short term repairs. We'll see tomorrow I suppose.
Yeah it seems the go to thing for the Johnston government is to drop a few policy ideas into the papers and wait to see the response.

So it could be a load of rubbish. Although short term repairs is at the moment a good way to some up this current government.
 

Berbasbullet

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This is a terrible speech even for Boris’ standards. The shoehorn to talk about statues was out of this world.
 

Smores

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Trying to compare it to Roosevelts new deal as well :lol:

The Tories always do this though, they brand their spending as the baseline so any actual impactful spending proposed by Labour will 'bankrupt the country'.

The loyal Tories will be along soon in here to spread the word why this is the only reasonable avenue.
 

SteveJ

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Johnson continually citing Churchill and FDR is like Bebe telling the crowd to bear Cantona and Robson in mind as he steps onto the OT pitch...and subsequently failing terribly, let alone equalling the brilliance of Eric and Brian.
 

FireballXL5

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£5bn wouldn't sort out North London let alone the whole country. As usual, they are lying to you.
 

Sweet Square

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Trying to compare it to Roosevelts new deal as well :lol:

The Tories always do this though, they brand their spending as the baseline so any actual impactful spending proposed by Labour will 'bankrupt the country'.

The loyal Tories will be along soon in here to spread the word why this is the only reasonable avenue.


Also might be the only thing I've said on the forum is that is still somewhat relevant.

  • The Trouble With Capitalism Is That You Eventually Run Out Of Things To Privatise - The Tories are really hitting the acceptable line of just how much they privatise and cut without facing backlash from the public. We saw this in the last election with the whole dementia tax and offering nothing for anyone under 50 years old. The Tory Party really haven't much change since Thatcher, its financial capital above all else, squeeze the welfare state and attack trade unions. Well they've done that, there's no trade union power any more, the welfare state has been destroyed and financial capital shate its pants in 2008, what next ?

  • The Further Right Wing Of The Tory Party - Johnston, Davids and one who looks like he went into a David Cronenberg transmitter pod holding a 19th Century panting haven't came up with any sort of alternative model that could win over support in the same way Thatcher could. Just on their social views alone they would struggle to get pass todays Britain(People underestimate the amount of bad will the tories got for trying to being back fox hunting).
What gave and still gives them today around a 40% of the vote is being the party of Brexit. Brexit acts as the black glue from that awful Ridley Scott movie, its puts together a giant voter base between standard Tories voters who will always vote Tory regardless of what the party does(A socialist being in opposition also helps) and part of the 17 million people who voted for a no deal exit.
Really is the same shite with the tories.
 

Drifter

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This is where Cummings earns his money. Big bold headlines, that mean absolutely nothing but may fool Daily Mail readers.
 

SteveJ

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£5bn wouldn't sort out North London let alone the whole country. As usual, they are lying to you.
FDR's New Deal: 40% of GDP
German stimulus: 4% of GDP
UK's New Deal: 0.2% of GDP
 

ivaldo

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Johnson continually citing Churchill and FDR is like Bebe telling the crowd to bear Cantona and Robson in mind as he steps onto the OT pitch...and subsequently failing terribly, let alone equalling the brilliance of Eric and Brian.
:lol:
 

SteveJ

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Today's slogan is 'Build build build', apparently. Another day of Johnson rolling out his sole and outdated political selling-point:"What ho, chaps - say, why don't we put on the show right here?"

Can-do optimism is no substitute for actual ability, attention and knowledge.

Still, I guess it beats 'Bish bosh! Bung a bob in a bucket and build Britain with Boris'...
 

berbatrick

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SteveJ

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She's no hero.
She's peed off because Sedwill was her appointment.
 

Buster15

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This is where Cummings earns his money. Big bold headlines, that mean absolutely nothing but may fool Daily Mail readers.
Is there even the remotest possibility that this is actually new money.
Or is it far more likely £5bn that has been pledged countless times before.

Talk about money laundering.
And by the way. If this is really how the real PM Dominic Cummings earns his money, someone ought to tell him that he is full of bullshit with zero credibility.
 

SteveJ

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Marian Hyde said:
Johnson, who increasingly looks like the photo snapped through a departing prison van window at the end of a particularly disturbing criminal trial,
:lol:
 

sun_tzu

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If this is really how the real PM Dominic Cummings earns his money, someone ought to tell him that he is full of bullshit with zero credibility.
Given he kept the press waiting for almost an hour before telling them with a straight face he went for a test drive with his son in the car because he thought he was blind then I think its fair to say he gives zero feks about how credible his bullshit is... especially as it hardly seems to have weakened his position
 

Buster15

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Given he kept the press waiting for almost an hour before telling them with a straight face he went for a test drive with his son in the car because he thought he was blind then I think its fair to say he gives zero feks about how credible his bullshit is... especially as it hardly seems to have weakened his position
Even if it hasn't weakened his position, which I am sure that it has (apart from Mr Bumble), it very much has weakened the credibility of blonde bombshell.

You cannot fool all the people all the time. Even some of the DM readers must recognise how damaging it has been to Boris.
The rest will be rejoicing that he can do two push-ups and all is well with the world.
 

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Even if it hasn't weakened his position, which I am sure that it has (apart from Mr Bumble), it very much has weakened the credibility of blonde bombshell.

You cannot fool all the people all the time. Even some of the DM readers must recognise how damaging it has been to Boris.
The rest will be rejoicing that he can do two push-ups and all is well with the world.
They have an 80 seat majority and the GE is 4 years off. They don't care and, unless they spectacularly screw up, they will suffer no meaningful consequences. Even if it goes completely pear shaped for the tousel haired bullshit generator himself, they'll just bring in a new leader and get a bounce. Sun is right: they don't really give a damn and they have been actively recreating the partizan team politics of the US for years meaning a good chunk of their base doesn't give a damn either.
 

TheGame

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She's no hero.
She's peed off because Sedwill was her appointment.
Or the new guy is one of the Doms friends and does not have any experience for the job. You don’t have to be a hero to give constructive criticism which is spot on in my view.
 

TheGame

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Boris is turning like Trump by brushing off incompetent or law breaking things he or his Government has done. I mean Jenrick and Cummins are still in post, the Russian report still hasn’t been released. The man is like Teflon, it’s pathetic what this country is turning into.
 

blue blue

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Who is going to build build build?

The construction industry is on its knees. Social distancing has reduced production by 20%. Companies are giving staff pay cuts and there is a massive skills shortage. These are all issues that must be resolved before you can talk about increasing output.

Before lock-down the industry had a serious skills shortage but in the weeks leading up to lockdown a significant number of workers left the country and haven't come back. I work for a large subcontractor and our order book is currently overflowing yet we will not be able to fulfill our obligations because of a lack of skills.

I've been complaining about this for years and it just got worse. The Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) hasn't been fit for purpose for decades.

Don't even mention the impact of Grenfell. Building regulations and contracts remain complicated and onerous and yet three years after the fire we still await the outcome of the inquiry. In the meantime more and more buildings are failing, more materials of unsatisfactory quality are being discovered and the fire regulations are still unfathomable.

Boris is pining his hopes on an industry that doesn't have the capacity to build.
 

Drifter

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Bricklaying, Carpentry, Plumbing have been crying out for years about shortages in young British workers, unless there as been a drive for significant training in the last five years those jobs will be filled by EU migrants.
 

FireballXL5

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That's just it. No-one is going to build build build. It's just more Tory bullshit bullshit bullshit.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Or the new guy is one of the Doms friends and does not have any experience for the job. You don’t have to be a hero to give constructive criticism which is spot on in my view.
Its telling just how far right the current government is. When their actions anger their own ex prime minister from only a couple of years ago.
 

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Its telling just how far right the current government is. When their actions anger their own ex prime minister from only a couple of years ago.
I don't think she's concerned about them being right wing. She's concerned about the nepotism and the erosion of impartiality.
 

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Who is going to build build build?

The construction industry is on its knees. Social distancing has reduced production by 20%. Companies are giving staff pay cuts and there is a massive skills shortage. These are all issues that must be resolved before you can talk about increasing output.

Before lock-down the industry had a serious skills shortage but in the weeks leading up to lockdown a significant number of workers left the country and haven't come back. I work for a large subcontractor and our order book is currently overflowing yet we will not be able to fulfill our obligations because of a lack of skills.

I've been complaining about this for years and it just got worse. The Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) hasn't been fit for purpose for decades.

Don't even mention the impact of Grenfell. Building regulations and contracts remain complicated and onerous and yet three years after the fire we still await the outcome of the inquiry. In the meantime more and more buildings are failing, more materials of unsatisfactory quality are being discovered and the fire regulations are still unfathomable.

Boris is pining his hopes on an industry that doesn't have the capacity to build.
Yeah agree with the sentiment of this. Work in the industry myself and whilst we are back busy on site for now there is a worrying amount of tenders coming in for the back end of the year. I think it'll be a pretty shit 2020/early 2021 for most companies and they will be picking up scraps. Of course plenty will go bust but plenty will survive to and the price cutting that will go on will be ridiculous which could benefit not just the government but anyone planning to build as they will be seeing some really low figures and it will benefit them that way so there is people there to do it, whether they have the skill or whether the government even stick to it (I doubt they do) is another thing.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Its telling just how far right the current government is. When their actions anger their own ex prime minister from only a couple of years ago.
It’s not about right or far right.

It’s one mass personal enrichment scheme. If Left wing policies made them richer, they’d follow them.

They don’t believe in anything. They don’t stand for anything.
 

Maticmaker

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Bricklaying, Carpentry, Plumbing have been crying out for years about shortages in young British workers, unless there as been a drive for significant training in the last five years those jobs will be filled by EU migrants.
The Construction industry has been robbed of its cheap worker imports from the EU, so now if it wants to gorge on Boris's 'big build' programme its going to have to start training people, again; bring back the Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) and its levy system on employers... whilst we are at it, bring back EITB, DITB, etc. all 'levied up'. Magic well done Boris, might even get YTS back....?
 

blue blue

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Yeah agree with the sentiment of this. Work in the industry myself and whilst we are back busy on site for now there is a worrying amount of tenders coming in for the back end of the year. I think it'll be a pretty shit 2020/early 2021 for most companies and they will be picking up scraps. Of course plenty will go bust but plenty will survive to and the price cutting that will go on will be ridiculous which could benefit not just the government but anyone planning to build as they will be seeing some really low figures and it will benefit them that way so there is people there to do it, whether they have the skill or whether the government even stick to it (I doubt they do) is another thing.
I work in roofing and cladding and we are getting involved with replacement cladding jobs. (Post Grenfell etc) We priced two of them last year and one of them was a very large project for us, £4.5m. In the end we turned it down because of a lack of resources but we could have landed the project. We have since turned down another contract of similar size. We are now increasing our prices because the market is drained of competent contractors. We have just last week landed a replacement contract for £6m at decent rates. Our order book for next year is already the largest we have ever had.

The Government has set aside £500m to assist with the replacement of the type of cladding used on Grenfell (ACM) but a much larger £1.8bn for replacement of other combustible cladding. There aren't enough contractors to carry out the work and the prices are increasing. It seems the Government are unaware of this and are still promising to spend more on projects beyond the industries capacity.

I just wonder if the immigration laws for migrant labour will change before we start work.
 

blue blue

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Bricklaying, Carpentry, Plumbing have been crying out for years about shortages in young British workers, unless there as been a drive for significant training in the last five years those jobs will be filled by EU migrants.
They have been closing the construction trades training colleges for years if not decades. The carpenters I use are just not proper carpenters and cannot be relied upon. I've had enough and am getting out of the industry.

Quality has dropped beyond acceptable levels, onerous contract terms which make the subcontractor at the bottom of the pile totally responsible for design, architects who who don't want to be accountable and a new breed of contractors who do not want to pay. I'm on my last legs and can't wait to get out.
 

Oggmonster

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I work in roofing and cladding and we are getting involved with replacement cladding jobs. (Post Grenfell etc) We priced two of them last year and one of them was a very large project for us, £4.5m. In the end we turned it down because of a lack of resources but we could have landed the project. We have since turned down another contract of similar size. We are now increasing our prices because the market is drained of competent contractors. We have just last week landed a replacement contract for £6m at decent rates. Our order book for next year is already the largest we have ever had.

The Government has set aside £500m to assist with the replacement of the type of cladding used on Grenfell (ACM) but a much larger £1.8bn for replacement of other combustible cladding. There aren't enough contractors to carry out the work and the prices are increasing. It seems the Government are unaware of this and are still promising to spend more on projects beyond the industries capacity.

I just wonder if the immigration laws for migrant labour will change before we start work.
Not a bad position to be in! Not really involved much with roofing and cladding work as in the commercial fit out sector myself so it's on its arse a bit at the moment as you can imagine, did think a few more cash rich companies may take the opportunity to fit out their premises in anticipation of reopening but they haven't really. We were lucky we started a lot of jobs pre Covid which now won't finish til the end of the year and have landed a couple of small jobs since. Hopefully we get a few projects to keep people going til next year at least but I wouldn't think there's enough out there for everyone.

I think the government needs to do something, the contruction industry is typically the one thing that can dictate the rest of the economy, I don't really have faith in them to do it myself to be honest though. Like you say the grenfell stuff has been at a standstill since it started really.

They have been closing the construction trades training colleges for years if not decades. The carpenters I use are just not proper carpenters and cannot be relied upon. I've had enough and am getting out of the industry.

Quality has dropped beyond acceptable levels, onerous contract terms which make the subcontractor at the bottom of the pile totally responsible for design, architects who who don't want to be accountable and a new breed of contractors who do not want to pay. I'm on my last legs and can't wait to get out.
I think it comes higher up than the contractor. I suppose the saying shit travels down hill. You're 100% right about the architects, we barely get detailed drawings anymore, most have the wrong project name on them and are generic from previous schemes so we basically have to design stuff (as do our subcontractors.) But equally the clients are reluctant to pay anyone so it puts everyone in the same situation, we have some good payers and pay in turn to the subcontractors but we also have to chase for money all the time which is frustrating. Don't get me wrong there are contractors out there ripping people off but there is also contractors stuck in the same situation as yourself and it's hugely frustrating, even more so on a good job when things are going well and you can't pay people.

The worst of the lot I find is architects or the PQS who seem to be doing less and less as jobs go on, the information is awful asn you're held accountable to it most the time.
 

blue blue

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Not a bad position to be in! Not really involved much with roofing and cladding work as in the commercial fit out sector myself so it's on its arse a bit at the moment as you can imagine, did think a few more cash rich companies may take the opportunity to fit out their premises in anticipation of reopening but they haven't really. We were lucky we started a lot of jobs pre Covid which now won't finish til the end of the year and have landed a couple of small jobs since. Hopefully we get a few projects to keep people going til next year at least but I wouldn't think there's enough out there for everyone.

I think the government needs to do something, the contruction industry is typically the one thing that can dictate the rest of the economy, I don't really have faith in them to do it myself to be honest though. Like you say the grenfell stuff has been at a standstill since it started really.



I think it comes higher up than the contractor. I suppose the saying shit travels down hill. You're 100% right about the architects, we barely get detailed drawings anymore, most have the wrong project name on them and are generic from previous schemes so we basically have to design stuff (as do our subcontractors.) But equally the clients are reluctant to pay anyone so it puts everyone in the same situation, we have some good payers and pay in turn to the subcontractors but we also have to chase for money all the time which is frustrating. Don't get me wrong there are contractors out there ripping people off but there is also contractors stuck in the same situation as yourself and it's hugely frustrating, even more so on a good job when things are going well and you can't pay people.

The worst of the lot I find is architects or the PQS who seem to be doing less and less as jobs go on, the information is awful asn you're held accountable to it most the time.
I suspect office fit out will unfortunately be hit hard. There appears to be a move towards working from home. I drive a round the City of London and the place is deserted at the moment. Twitter have already said they aren't going back and others will follow.
You're right the bad payment practice does come from the top. I'm also just experiencing a terrible surveyor who undervalues everything beyond the norm.

We have unusually been approached to carry out work in Manchester recently and just missed out on the Town Hall roof. I was in Manchester last year for the Pitched Roofing awards and was pleasantly surprised to see a lot of investment happening in the city center. Good luck.
 

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Surprised nobody has mentioned what Raab and Johnson have said today about Hong Kong.

Might be about to see an influx of many of them to the UK in the near future.