Westminster Politics

[Buster15]

Regarding the English Channel migrant crisis and the so called efforts to break the business model of the traffickers, is it not the most obvious thing to go after those companies that make the dinghies.
There cannot be hundreds of dinghy manufacturers.
And so, why not get the police to get lists of all the people they have supplied to. Same for the outboard motor suppliers.
And then pay them a visit.

 

[TheLiverBird]

The reasons they are crossing

Take those reasons away

And then there’s no point in them spending money on crossing

 

[V.O.]

The reasons they are crossing

Take those reasons away

And then there’s no point in them spending money on crossing

To be fair, the tories are trying their level best to make the country a dystopian hellscape where no fecker wants to live, but it's taking longer than expected.

 

[Solius]

Nadine Dorries is a cnut. That is all.

 

[esmufc07]

I really dislike this country at times

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Sweet Square]

I really dislike this country at times

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Regarding the English Channel migrant crisis and the so called efforts to break the business model of the traffickers, is it not the most obvious thing to go after those companies that make the dinghies.
There cannot be hundreds of dinghy manufacturers.
And so, why not get the police to get lists of all the people they have supplied to. Same for the outboard motor suppliers.
And then pay them a visit.

Yes, because that's the real problem. Would be similar to putting a plaster on a broken leg.

 

[Buster15]

Yes, because that's the real problem. Would be similar to putting a plaster on a broken leg.

The supply of the boats and engines provides the only means of cross channel transport from the French beaches.
So yes, you are right, that is the real problem.

 

[mitChley]

Regarding the English Channel migrant crisis and the so called efforts to break the business model of the traffickers, is it not the most obvious thing to go after those companies that make the dinghies.
There cannot be hundreds of dinghy manufacturers.
And so, why not get the police to get lists of all the people they have supplied to. Same for the outboard motor suppliers.
And then pay them a visit.

That's one hell of a take
Ill give you it's original.

 

[calodo2003]

Are there no tailors in the UK? No clue who the guy is on the left…

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Drifter]

Amazon workers in 20 countries - including the US, UK, and several in the EU - are planning protests and work stoppages on Black Friday.

The shopping-centric day is among Amazon's busiest all year.

The Make Amazon Pay group says: "Amazon takes too much and gives back too little."

It is backed by a coalition of labour groups, trade unions, grassroots campaigns and non-profit-making organisations in individual countries.

In the UK, that includes the:

GMB Union
Trades Union Congress
Momentum
War on Want
International Transport Workers' Federation
Labour Behind the Label

No UK Amazon warehouses are unionised, so legally they can't strike.

Many employees will be working on the day, but campaign groups which include Amazon workers will be staging protests at Amazon buildings in Coalville, Leicestershire, Coventry, Peterborough and at its London headquarters.

But strikes are being encouraged elsewhere.

In Germany, for example, the union Verdi called on employees at major shipping centres to strike, beginning on Wednesday night.

Worldwide, nearly 50 organisations have signed up to a list of "common demands", published by the Make Amazon Pay coalition, which include:

raising warehouse workers' pay and adding hazard pay and peak time increments

halting worker "surveillance" and strict productivity targets

extending sick leave and improving Covid-19 tracking and reporting

ending casual employment status and "union-busting" activities

paying taxes without using loopholes or tax havens

"This company is a pandemic profiteer can afford to do better," said Mick Rix, from the GMB Union. "It's time for Amazon sit down with their workers' union GMB and make Amazon a great, safe place to work. "

Amazon reported a tripling of profits earlier this year, attributed to its success during the Covid-19 pandemic.

UK , doing their duty to crush workers rights.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The supply of the boats and engines provides the only means of cross channel transport from the French beaches.
So yes, you are right, that is the real problem.

Nothing to do with the UK having no legitimate means to apply for refuge or asylum until they are in the country?

Nothing to do with the UK breaking maritime law and legislating to allow people to die at sea without being rescued?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/12/priti-patel-borders-bill-breaches-law-human-rights

The smugglers are being enabled by UK government policy.

It's almost comical that outlawing dinghys is even being spoken about as a potential solution. The problem is the lack of legitimate options and vlockages of legal applications by the UK is driving this underground.

 

[oates]

Reality Check - please think about what TV programmes you are allowing your boys to watch!

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[FireballXL5]

France scraps UK talks over Johnson migrants letter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59428311

 

[Berbasbullet]

Reality Check - please think about what TV programmes you are allowing your boys to watch!

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Is this a valid defence in court I wonder?

 

[oates]

Is this a valid defence in court I wonder?

Jodie Whittaker made me a criminal? (If I gave her some more wool would sge make me one?)

What sort of people do we elect now ffs?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Channel deaths: Priti Patel disinvited to meeting with France
Boris Johnson’s public letter to Emmanuel Macron on Channel drownings deemed ‘unacceptable’
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...priti-patel-disinvited-to-meeting-with-france

Nothing to do with UK governments total mismanagement. Its those bloody dinghys.

 

[sun_tzu]

Hard to see this one being solved

France don't seem to have any desire to persuade people not to risk their lives in crossing

Uk has no interest in making it easier or safer for people

Eu courts have been blocking the unhrc proposal that European countries are designated safe so that people can be returned as they feel it infringes eu law

The smugglers will carry on whilst ever there is demand

The continued issues in many countries (and potential humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan) is only going to ensure the supply of people remains or increases.

In truth it should be a wake up call as to what climate migration would be like and that it is going to take a joint approach... more likley the domestic politics of immigration in the UK and particularly in France with an election coming up means it will just be an excuse for slabre rattling

Probably the only real solutions are unpalatable or impractical so we will build up to a creshendo of gun boats in the Channel with a bit of added fishing wars around the time of the French election next year... perhaps after that if boris has gone and priti patel isn't pm there can be some meaningful negotiations... almost certainly a lot more people die between now and then though

 

[Jippy]

HMRC to relocate to Newcastle office owned by Tory donors via tax haven

The deal will see officials at the government department responsible for preventing tax avoidance working from a site owned by a subsidiary of a company based in a secretive offshore tax jurisdiction.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tle-office-owned-by-tory-donors-via-tax-haven

 

[Buster15]

That's one hell of a take
Ill give you it's original.

It is actually perfectly logical.
Without access to the boats or dinghies that the people traffickers provide and remember, they are only used one way, they will have no means at all to carry out their disgusting activities.
Close that supply down and you close down their business.

Not just that, the boat suppliers should also know who they have been selling them to. Same for the outboard motors.
So you not only cut down on the supply, but you increase your chances of identifying the traffickers.

Please explain to me why that would not work.

 

[Buster15]

Nothing to do with the UK having no legitimate means to apply for refuge or asylum until they are in the country?

Nothing to do with the UK breaking maritime law and legislating to allow people to die at sea without being rescued?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/12/priti-patel-borders-bill-breaches-law-human-rights

The smugglers are being enabled by UK government policy.

It's almost comical that outlawing dinghys is even being spoken about as a potential solution. The problem is the lack of legitimate options and vlockages of legal applications by the UK is driving this underground.

Those things you mentioned are of course part of the whole picture. Don't disagree with any of that.
But remember, my initial post was in response to Boris saying that he intends to 'break the traffickers business model'

A business model that is totally reliant on the supply of boats and engines.
Nothing comical about that. And I don't choose to respond to your posts by trivialising them.
I am instead trying to make a constructive suggestion.

 

[Abizzz]

It is actually perfectly logical.
Without access to the boats or dinghies that the people traffickers provide and remember, they are only used one way, they will have no means at all to carry out their disgusting activities.
Close that supply down and you close down their business.

Not just that, the boat suppliers should also know who they have been selling them to. Same for the outboard motors.
So you not only cut down on the supply, but you increase your chances of identifying the traffickers.

Please explain to me why that would not work.

Because Europe isn't going to treat boats and engines like guns. Giving them better boats would be a better idea than that.

 

[Foxbatt]

Channel deaths: Priti Patel disinvited to meeting with France
Boris Johnson’s public letter to Emmanuel Macron on Channel drownings deemed ‘unacceptable’
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...priti-patel-disinvited-to-meeting-with-france

Nothing to do with UK governments total mismanagement. Its those bloody dinghys.

Of course it is the bloody dinghies and the outboard engine manufacturers. They should be banned. I mean companies that manufacturer knives should also be shut down. Because of people trying to hijack aircraft the manufacturers should also be shut down.
And Priti Patel's parents should have never been allowed to come to the UK from Uganda.

 

[oates]

Because Europe isn't going to treat boats and engines like guns. Giving them better boats would be a better idea than that.

It's one of if not the busiest sea lanes in the World and giving them any sorts of boats would only make the country giving them liable for when they die using them.

Even if that were a practical idea surely you should then train them in navigation and power boat handling or yachtmaster qualifications which would be a responsible manner of leaving them to their own devices in crossing the channel which I'm afraid is ridiculous.

Immigrants are supposed to be returned to the EU country they first entered, quotas agreed by EU and UK countries should then be used in placing these immigrants, transported safely of course. However none of us are sticking to these agreements. France is not applying these agreements, they are in effect not stoping these immigrants from camping around Calais.

Obviously there's been a huge surge in purchasing rubber dinghies and outboard motors, their use is dangerous and the purchasing could be identified and it is one idea of stopping people from dying.

 

[WPMUFC]

Is this a valid defence in court I wonder?

Prosecutor: Why did you bludgeon that old lady to death in the parking lot?
Defendant: Because Luke Skywalker was relegated to the Yoda role in TLJ and Rey made me feel funny things in my pants.
Judge: I've heard enough....the wokes have gone too far....you're free to go.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Prosecutor: Why did you bludgeon that old lady to death in the parking lot?
Defendant: Because Luke Skywalker was relegated to the Yoda role in TLJ and Rey made me feel funny things in my pants.
Judge: I've heard enough....the wokes have gone too far....you're free to go.

 

[Abizzz]

It's one of if not the busiest sea lanes in the World and giving them any sorts of boats would only make the country giving them liable for when they die using them.

Even if that were a practical idea surely you should then train them in navigation and power boat handling or yachtmaster qualifications which would be a responsible manner of leaving them to their own devices in crossing the channel which I'm afraid is ridiculous.

Immigrants are supposed to be returned to the EU country they first entered, quotas agreed by EU and UK countries should then be used in placing these immigrants, transported safely of course. However none of us are sticking to these agreements. France is not applying these agreements, they are in effect not stoping these immigrants from camping around Calais.

Obviously there's been a huge surge in purchasing rubber dinghies and outboard motors, their use is dangerous and the purchasing could be identified and it is one idea of stopping people from dying.

I was taking the mickey out of the idea that a continent is going to regulate rubber dinghys because of another country's inner politics (like it or not no one really cares anymore how many reach British shores but the British). I wasn't seriously advocating giving them boats of any sort.

These people are only in France because they want to go to the UK. France is just unfortunate geographically. The real question is why do these people think it's worth risking their lives to become asylum seekers in the UK? What's the UK promising?

 

[cyberman]

They are not immigrants they are asylum seekers. There’s an important different between the two. As such they aren’t illegal

 

[WPMUFC]

 

[Buster15]

Because Europe isn't going to treat boats and engines like guns. Giving them better boats would be a better idea than that.

Giving them?
Giving who?

 

[Abizzz]

They are not immigrants they are asylum seekers. There’s an important different between the two. As such they aren’t illegal

Fair, I'll edit my post.

 

[oates]

I was taking the mickey out of the idea that a continent is going to regulate rubber dinghys. I wasn't seriously advocating giving them boats of any sort.

These people are only in France because they want to go to the UK. France is just unfortunate geographically. The real question is why do these people think it's worth risking their lives to become illegal immigrants in the UK? What's the UK promising?

I'm sorry I missed your joke however it is a perfectly sensible idea. These smugglers are buying them by the dozen, the manufacturers, wholesalers, retail outlets have never had it so good while taking part in helping smugglers to make money and kill people.

These immigrants hear about a country of workers and layabouts, a country where people aren't being killed by the governments or insurgents in their countries, feck me I'd be heading for anywhere in Europe I've already got friends and family in to help get me and my family set up. It ain't rocket science or were you just taking the piss again?

edit, some are asylum seekers, some are immigrants, they're all looking for a better life, I don't feel an urgent need to mind my Ps&Qs describing them when what we need is for people to stop making money out of killing them.

 

[Abizzz]

I'm sorry I missed your joke however it is a perfectly sensible idea. These smugglers are buying them by the dozen, the manufacturers, wholesalers, retail outlets have never had it so good while taking part in helping smugglers to make money and kill people.

It's about as sensible as getting rid of trucks because of the odd person using it with bad intentions, or keeping all under surveillance.

These immigrants hear about a country of workers and layabouts, a country where people aren't being killed by the governments or insurgents in their countries, feck me I'd be heading for anywhere in Europe I've already got friends and family in to help get me and my family set up. It ain't rocket science or were you just taking the piss again?

I'm not taking the piss. Are you? These people aren't being killed by the french government. You can't be seriously saying that the UK is so much safer than France that it's the rational explanation for crossing the channel in a dinghy?

 

[cyberman]

I'm sorry I missed your joke however it is a perfectly sensible idea. These smugglers are buying them by the dozen, the manufacturers, wholesalers, retail outlets have never had it so good while taking part in helping smugglers to make money and kill people.

These immigrants hear about a country of workers and layabouts, a country where people aren't being killed by the governments or insurgents in their countries, feck me I'd be heading for anywhere in Europe I've already got friends and family in to help get me and my family set up. It ain't rocket science or were you just taking the piss again?

edit, some are asylum seekers, some are immigrants, they're all looking for a better life, I don't feel an urgent need to mind my Ps&Qs describing them when what we need is for people to stop making money out of killing them.

It’s not a small thing. Being an asylum seeker is protected under international law and stopping them before they hit the beaches and such isn’t possible.

 

[oates]

It's about as sensible as getting rid of trucks because of the odd person using it with bad intentions, or keeping all under surveillance.

I'm sorry, you must be taking the piss.

I'm not taking the piss. Are you? These people aren't being killed by the french government. You can't be seriously saying that the UK is so much safer than France that it's the rational explanation for crossing the channel in a dinghy.

I didn't say they are being killed by the French Govt.

I'm saying they are heading to where they already have friends or family. They're heading for somewhere that at the very least feeds them and gives them a roof over their heads even if it is surrounded by barbed wire etc.

It’s not a small thing. Being an asylum seeker is protected under international law and stopping them before they hit the beaches and such isn’t possible.

Some of them are economic migrants, they're all on their way from one place to another, I'll use either one term or another. Try not to be so pedantic, your comments aren't constructive are they?

 

[Abizzz]

I'm sorry, you must be taking the piss.

I assure you I'm not. Even if Priti's idiotic idea of monitoring dinghy sales were put in force and worked they'd just swap to even flimsier not seaworthy objects.

I didn't say they are being killed by the French Govt.

I'm saying they are heading to where they already have friends or family. They're heading for somewhere that at the very least feeds them and gives them a roof over their heads even if it is surrounded by barbed wire etc.

If that's all why not go via land to Switzerland or Germany?

 

[cyberman]

I'm sorry, you must be taking the piss.


I didn't say they are being killed by the French Govt.

I'm saying they are heading to where they already have friends or family. They're heading for somewhere that at the very least feeds them and gives them a roof over their heads even if it is surrounded by barbed wire etc.


Some of them are economic migrants, they're all on their way from one place to another, I'll use either one term or another. Try not to be so pedantic, your comments aren't constructive are they?

How is it it not constructive? It’s the biggest hurdle to any solution, it is against international law to turn back asylum seekers. It’s not a glib term, they are protected and to throw them in with economic migrants is the least constructive point you can make.
No country will ever accept the turning back of asylum seekers. That’s all there is to it

 

[oates]

I assure you I'm not. Even if Priti's idiotic idea of monitoring dinghy sales were put in force and worked they'd just swap to even flimsier not seaworthy objects.

And then they could try banning even flimsier things, perhaps lilos being bought in their thousands during the Winter.

If that's all why not go via land to Switzerland or Germany?

It's not my choice where their friends and family already are or my choice which country they see as their best option. You really are on the wum.

 

[Buster15]

They are not immigrants they are asylum seekers. There’s an important different between the two. As such they aren’t illegal

The asylum process is there to protect an individual who believes that by staying in their country, their life or the life of their family is under threat.
And as such, they are supposed to claim asylum in the first safe country they can get to.
Not travel through a number of countries and then choosing to make a highly dangerous crossing across the busiest waterway to get to the UK.
In that case, they are usually regarded as economic migrants because they are making a specific choice.

 

[Abizzz]

And then they could try banning even flimsier things, perhaps lilos being bought in their thousands during the Winter.


It's not my choice where their friends and family already are or my choice which country they see as their best option. You really are on the wum.

I am not and would appreciate you stopping claiming that I am. The big fat elephant in the room is that they are fleeing to an under policed wealthy country that has huge gaps in the part of the labor market that they are eligible for because of said country's recent developments.

But I'm sure you'll just say thats wumming too.