Westminster Politics

Raulduke

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So sounds like this is the beginning of another entirely new scandal.
 

Buster15

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This goes to show either:
The UK government is extremely good at raising the issue of migrants trying to get into GB as a significant problem when in reality it is much less so.
Or the public are totally gullible in believing what the government says.
 

Adisa

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We have a massive problem with government corruption. We need to start talking about it.
 

Paul the Wolf

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We have a massive problem with government corruption. We need to start talking about it.
You very urgently need to do something about it, if it's not too late already.
The UK is like watching one of those old horror films where the population's minds gradually all turn to jelly and all they can do is repeat parrot fashion what their overlord tells them.
 

neverdie

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Are other countries also increasing interest rates? If so does that not counteract most of the purpose of increasing the rate?
the US has raised its interest rate. the logic seems to be to curtail spending, or demand, shortterm to allow supply problems to work themselves out. makes some sense to me but it won't cure the bigger problem around the corner.
 

Jippy

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Are other countries also increasing interest rates? If so does that not counteract most of the purpose of increasing the rate?
Pretty much everywhere from the US to Brazil, India, Singapore, Australia, with the eurozone, Japan and China the outliers. Inflation is a global problem, but exacerbated somewhat in the UK by Brexit impact on the labour market, sterling weakness and the UK's reliance on energy imports.

the US has raised its interest rate. the logic seems to be to curtail spending, or demand, shortterm to allow supply problems to work themselves out. makes some sense to me but it won't cure the bigger problem around the corner.
Yeah inflation seems here to stay long-term, with things like deglobalisation and the move to net-zero going to be inflationary long-term on top of the unravelling of all of the stimulus. They're potentially multi-decade and way beyond the current Ukraine conflict, US labour market tightness, supply chain issues and spike in energy prices etc...pretty bleak long-term outlook at the mo'.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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Increasing complaints I've seen about how the 'mainstream media' is biased against the Tories and Johnson, are both hilarious and scary at the same time (scary in terms of a continued government vendetta against outlets that dare to criticise them).

Ultimately when a party has been in power for more than 12 years, they are subject to scrutiny, accountability and criticism. It's only right that the party who hands over the levers of power and make policies and decisions and affect our day to day lives, should face even more scrutiny and accountability than any opposition party. And when the prime minister is incapable of telling to truth (although that should have been blatantly obvious long before he even became foreign secretary let alone PM), that will ultimately come back to bite him.

Re the BBC, haven't far more staff members moved between the corporation and the Tory party than between it and Labour? I saw some figures a couple of years ago and it wasn't even close. Also when Corbyn was Labour leader, any notion that the BBC favoured Labour over the Tories, especially given how close Laura Kuenssberg was to Johnson and other Tory bigwigs and officials in no. 10, would be as far from the truth as you could possibly get.

Channel 4 is criticised as being a lefty station just because they have the 'cheek' to properly and continually hold the Tory government to account. I remember when Labour were in power (although that feels like a different lifetime now, then again pre-COVID times do), they received exactly the same treatment. It was only right in those days that Labour governments with comfortable (or from 1997-2005 super-landslide) majorities faced even more scrutiny than the Tory party in opposition. Alistair Campbell used to regularly complain about the rough treatment from Channel 4, Jon Snow etc.

Throw in the fact that print media is of course overwhelmingly pro-Tory, including sadly the traditionally best selling / circulating newspapers in the country, and these complaints really are farcical.
 

dumbo

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I still trust mass murderers even after Harold Shipman did his thing, that's why I'm voting for the party of murderers: The Tory plums.
 

Buster15

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You very urgently need to do something about it, if it's not too late already.
The UK is like watching one of those old horror films where the population's minds gradually all turn to jelly and all they can do is repeat parrot fashion what their overlord tells them.
It is easy to confuse apathy with acceptance and agreement.
IMHO, it is strongly the former.
When I was much younger in the 1970's, there was massive protests on the streets and industrial action. Because back then, we had something to get behind. A champion/leader so to speak in the form of a Labour Party led by Harold Wilson and the Trades Unions. And protest we did. Strongly.

Unfortunately now, there is no obvious leadership. Labour are not giving us that at all and the Trades Unions are simply a sideshow.
So people moan and take to social media in order to express their frustrations. Like me here.
But that gets us nowhere.

And I suspect that is similar in so many countries.
And that is precisely why governments get away with doing just what they like.

I believe that the public are simply numbed by everything that has gone on and just get on with doing what they can for themselves and their family. And the rest just goes over their heads.
 

Maticmaker

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So people moan and take to social media in order to express their frustrations. Like me here.
But that gets us nowhere.
Social media, the best relief valve there is, sit at your keyboard gush out all your anger. Better still keep in your own echo chamber so no different views appear. You put the world to rights then go and watch netfliks box sets. Generation keyboard crunchers, wonder how it will be remembered in the future? ;)
 

Buster15

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Social media, the best relief valve there is, sit at your keyboard gush out all your anger. Better still keep in your own echo chamber so no different views appear. You put the world to rights then go and watch netfliks box sets. Generation keyboard crunchers, wonder how it will be remembered in the future? ;)
Indeed.
The real question though, especially for people like you and me who are of an age who went through that era is... did those protests and strikes actually achieve anything?
In the short term, maybe a little. We won the odd battle.
But we definitely lost the war.
We are no better off as the divide between rich and poor is bigger than ever.
Trades Unions have been weakened to the extent that they are almost irrelevant.
And generations of people have been brainwashed by the media in general into thinking that the Tories have their best interests at heart, while Labour is to blame for anything and everything.
All very sad.
 

Maticmaker

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Indeed.
The real question though, especially for people like you and me who are of an age who went through that era is... did those protests and strikes actually achieve anything?
In the short term, maybe a little. We won the odd battle.
But we definitely lost the war.
We are no better off as the divide between rich and poor is bigger than ever.
Trades Unions have been weakened to the extent that they are almost irrelevant.
And generations of people have been brainwashed by the media in general into thinking that the Tories have their best interests at heart, while Labour is to blame for anything and everything.
All very sad.
Did they achieve anything? Well the 'Kill the bill' campaign did help to get rid of black jack Donaldson ( high court judge) and the industrial relations bill , but it came back with a vengeance via Maggie. Scargill did well with his flying pickets , but kept the same tactics for next time and got hammered. The fact is Labour and the Unions have never learned how to push back without alienating those who should be on their side. It. continues to day, Labour politicians are just that, politicians on the 'political merry go around' they give the impression they seeking power but either are too stupid in their tactics, or maybe they like being in opposition ..I sometimes wonder
 

Buster15

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Did they achieve anything? Well the 'Kill the bill' campaign did help to get rid of black jack Donaldson ( high court judge) and the industrial relations bill , but it came back with a vengeance via Maggie. Scargill did well with his flying pickets , but kept the same tactics for next time and got hammered. The fact is Labour and the Unions have never learned how to push back without alienating those who should be on their side. It. continues to day, Labour politicians are just that, politicians on the 'political merry go around' they give the impression they seeking power but either are too stupid in their tactics, or maybe they like being in opposition ..I sometimes wonder
Well said.
I can remember a time when the Unions were so powerful, a group made a pop song about them.
The Strawbs, Im A Union Man.
The problem as you will know was that they got too strong. And as a result, successive governments legislated them almost out of existence.
Yes they did a lot of good at the time. And gave the working men and women some leverage.
But undoubtedly, they were hijacked by certain groups in order to destabilise the British economy.
So. We are where we are. Subservient to the ruling classes
Subservient to the government.
And subservient to global businesses.
And nothing much is going to change.
 

Maticmaker

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Well said.
I can remember a time when the Unions were so powerful, a group made a pop song about them.
The Strawbs, Im A Union Man.
The problem as you will know was that they got too strong. And as a result, successive governments legislated them almost out of existence.
Yes they did a lot of good at the time. And gave the working men and women some leverage.
But undoubtedly, they were hijacked by certain groups in order to destabilise the British economy.
So. We are where we are. Subservient to the ruling classes
Subservient to the government.
And subservient to global businesses.
And nothing much is going to change.
I agree that the Unions did get taken over to a degree by groups who wanted to destabilise the British Government and part of the reason for joining the 'common market or EEC was supposedly to stop any of that sort of thing.
Unfortunately Labour got too politicised and a lot of Union members in ( my neck if the woods) blamed ' infiltration' tactics on the 'politico' s'. The truth is Labour is not bonded together like the Tories with a common traite " me first, me second and if there is anything left me again". The Tories are notoriously ruthless in their search for power and remaining in power they are a 'real PL' party. Labour as had its moments one time got in with landslide victories, but then blew it's self to bits. Just imagine if Blair and Brown had been on the same page, just what could Labour have done.? Straws in the wind now, Labour stuck in the championship and lost most of its true supporters both in England
and Scotland ....just don't see it ending happily for Starmer... But who knows?
 
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GuybrushThreepwood

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Not on red cafe surely?
No-one here but I’ve seen that ‘argument’ being made more and more in recent years, as Johnson’s administration and its dire record has come under more scrutiny and criticism, partygate, the recent Tory confidence etc.

It’s like the people who claim that GB News provides ‘alternate news’, when of course it trots out the same messaging as the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, Spectator, Talk TV / Radio, Guido Fawkes, a large number of YouTube channels with more than 100k subscribers etc.

It’s ever growing the concept of the ‘sore winner’, people who are catered for extremely well but endlessly moan that they are somehow ignored or marginalised. It reminds of soap fans moaning when those programmes are occasionally re-arranged for live football matches, when they dominate the terrestrial TV evening scheduling for most of the year.
 

Kentonio

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This is a great thread:

The description of Pritti Patel as 'a smirking, razor-faced ghoul with all the warmth and tenderness of a Klingon backstreet abortionist' may be one of the greatest things I've ever read. Love Russ Jones.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Boris Johnson misses Tory ‘red wall’ conference to make surprise visit to Kyiv – UK politics live

BJ: "Get me on a plane to Kyiv pronto. Bloody Scholz, Macron and Draghi beat me too it. Those gullible Brexiters will think I'm not on the front line playing Churchill - where's my Churchill cosplay outfit?"
 

neverdie

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The description of Pritti Patel as 'a smirking, razor-faced ghoul with all the warmth and tenderness of a Klingon backstreet abortionist' may be one of the greatest things I've ever read. Love Russ Jones.
:lol:
 

Paul the Wolf

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It is easy to confuse apathy with acceptance and agreement.
IMHO, it is strongly the former.
When I was much younger in the 1970's, there was massive protests on the streets and industrial action. Because back then, we had something to get behind. A champion/leader so to speak in the form of a Labour Party led by Harold Wilson and the Trades Unions. And protest we did. Strongly.

Unfortunately now, there is no obvious leadership. Labour are not giving us that at all and the Trades Unions are simply a sideshow.
So people moan and take to social media in order to express their frustrations. Like me here.
But that gets us nowhere.

And I suspect that is similar in so many countries.
And that is precisely why governments get away with doing just what they like.

I believe that the public are simply numbed by everything that has gone on and just get on with doing what they can for themselves and their family. And the rest just goes over their heads.
Yes agreed but apathy is as bad as acceptance and agreement.
Labour desperately need a strong leader which they haven't had for some time. This has to be the starting point. The Tories know they have almost a free rein to do anything. Only Ian Blackford really stands up to them but he has no real power.

People have opinions on social media but trolls are deliberately employed to counter your opinion if it deviates to what it 'should be'. The difference with most other European countries is the British press who are more able to influence what people are 'supposed to think'. I know the British like to think that they have a free British press but until you leave the UK, only then will you really notice the difference. And it's much worse now than when I left fifteen years ago.