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Westminster Politics

Dan_F

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Off we go!
I’ve spent the last week reading Daily Mail sports reporters get all worked up about the Saudi Arabia golf stuff, complaining about the morals of it etc.

The absolute irony of it working for that piece of shit newspaper.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Oh, the irony!

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill (Page 1)

EXPLANATORY NOTES Explanatory notes to the Bill, prepared by the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office, are published separately as Bill 12-EN.

EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS

Secretary Elizabeth Truss has made the following statement under section 19(1)(a) of the Human Rights Act 1998:

In my view the provisions of the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill are compatible with the Convention rights.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
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It's so transparent. Without a culture war battle, this government cannot win.
 

Don't Kill Bill

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No, I appreciate the clarity.

The thread I posted above gave a number of options available to the UK Government, including rejoining the Dublin protocol meaning the asylum seekers could be lawfully returned to France, or even setting up an agreement with the French Government to process asylum claims for the UK on French soil.

But I think it is more accurate to note that Theresa May, when she was Home Secretary, included student numbers within the immigration figures.

In the year ending March 2020, formal study was the most common main reason for immigration (36%), while work was the second most common main reason (32%).

So a third of that immigration figure relates to FE and HE, and is a big economic driver for many cities and towns across the UK. Those students also cannot remain here until they find work (paying over a certain amount) after graduating.

I think it is also sensible to consider net immigration, rather than the headline figure.

In the year ending June 2021 573,000 people migrated into the UK and 334,000 people emigrated from it, leaving net migration figure of 239,000 people.

We also have 1.3 million job vacancies as an economy. That seems to suggest that more migration is needed to fill those skills gaps. But that's a different debate from asylum claims.
The guy who conflated the terms knows exactly what he is doing.

Its a valid point on migration but if the only solution to excess job vacancies is more immigration then the solution is a bit of a Ponzi scheme. Unless you think there is an infinite number of people wanting to come and an infinite capacity to accept them into the UK. Since neither of these things are true the problem isn't solved but put off and in fact exacerbated.

Unless AI saves the day and then turns us all into grey goo.
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
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The guy who conflated the terms knows exactly what he is doing.

Its a valid point on migration but if the only solution to excess job vacancies is more immigration then the solution is a bit of a Ponzi scheme. Unless you think there is an infinite number of people wanting to come and an infinite capacity to accept them into the UK. Since neither of these things are true the problem isn't solved but put off and in fact exacerbated.

Unless AI saves the day and then turns us all into grey goo.
Well we need migrants because of a falling birth rate, a problem nobody wants to tackle because it would actually involve being nice to the population - more housing, better pay, more time off, better healthcare, better childcare, that sort of thing. So being dickheads to immigrants may play well with the old folks but it does absolutely nothing for either British people or the immergants. Immigration is the only way to ensure there'll be someone to wipe their arse when the time comes because of how fecked up our politics is.
 

Buster15

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https://news.sky.com/story/channel-...-highest-daily-figure-for-two-months-12634265

Good to see that the UK government plans to completely disrupt the people traffickers business model by illegally shunting the males to the safe and secure state of Rwanda is working brilliantly.
Our government is an international laughing stock determined to turn the UK into a pariah state. While at the same time trying to sign international trade agreements.
 

Maticmaker

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Would this count as a benefit of Brexit if it happens? Which it won't.
Very much so it's only the presence of churchmen that justifies the house of Lords anyway . Get rid of them and then abolishing the whole ediface could follow...perfect irony really.
 

Maticmaker

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Despite all the noise on this topic, immigration is not an issue in the British Isles because it's been happening for centuries, a large proportion of today's population are descended from immigrants whether ayslum seekers or people just after a better life.How immigration is managed is important and there has to be rules as well as fairness to avoid queue jumping ( dear to the heart of all true Brits ). This subject has to be taken out of day to day politics, it's too important to those who want to come and to those already here.
 

Peter van der Gea

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Despite all the noise on this topic, immigration is not an issue in the British Isles because it's been happening for centuries, a large proportion of today's population are descended from immigrants whether ayslum seekers or people just after a better life.How immigration is managed is important and there has to be rules as well as fairness to avoid queue jumping ( dear to the heart of all true Brits ). This subject has to be taken out of day to day politics, it's too important to those who want to come and to those already here.
Bit more than a large proportion, I'd go as far to say even if your family line goes back as far as pre-Roman, you probably still are descended from immigrants.

The people who built Stonehenge were in Britain thousands of years before the Celts immigrated over.
 

Paul the Wolf

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https://news.sky.com/story/channel-...-highest-daily-figure-for-two-months-12634265

Good to see that the UK government plans to completely disrupt the people traffickers business model by illegally shunting the males to the safe and secure state of Rwanda is working brilliantly.
Our government is an international laughing stock determined to turn the UK into a pariah state. While at the same time trying to sign international trade agreements.
People would have to be really stupid to believe that this Rwanda scheme will deter people traffickers. But we all know how the government manage to brainwash the gullibles.
 

dumbo

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Despite all the noise on this topic, immigration is not an issue in the British Isles because it's been happening for centuries, a large proportion of today's population are descended from immigrants whether ayslum seekers or people just after a better life.
Speak for yourself mate, me and my relatives all emerged out of the scala naturae of this green and pleasant land. You'll find none of your foreign muck round this way.
 

Maticmaker

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Speak for yourself mate, me and my relatives all emerged out of the scala naturae of this green and pleasant land. You'll find none of your foreign muck round this way.
They probably swam here, who needs boats?
 

sewey89

Incorrectly predicted the de Jong transfer 2022
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Starmer needs to stop with the 'current' references.. fecking Love Island and mentioning 'the ick' :houllier:
 

Solius

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This type of shit is where Starmer doesn't help himself. Pisses me off how it just becomes a competition for who can do the best zinger, instead of actually holding people to account.

Boris could murder someone and Starmer would go "Looks like you're 'killing' off your own hopes of staying as PM".
 

villain

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Any idea where Starmer stands on the Rwanda issue?

Or was he too busy putting on another "clinic" in PMQs?
 

Pexbo

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This type of shit is where Starmer doesn't help himself. Pisses me off how it just becomes a competition for who can do the best zinger, instead of actually holding people to account.

Boris could murder someone and Starmer would go "Looks like you're 'killing' off your own hopes of staying as PM".
To be fair, that’s done its job. The message that Johnson is claiming his economy is booming when it’s shrinking is what Starmer wanted out there and here it is.

We live in the age of social media and sound bytes. He was too prosecutorial to begin with and while it was good for anyone with an interest in politics to watch in long form and enjoy the forensics of it, it didn’t really hit home with the masses.

As cringey as it is to be referencing that shower of shit, no publicity is bad publicity says that his point is wing spread far and wide.
 

UweBein

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Rwanda flights - as horrendous the idea is, I am afraid Europe is heading there as well.
 

F-Red

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Criticises the Government, but doesn't offer an alternative - what would he do if he were in charge?
I don't think the need to offer an alternative means the government can't be criticised in what is an absolutely shitshow of a policy.

Another quick search in google find's what he would do. This is pretty simple & easy to find if you really want to listen to his view - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/refugees-keir-starmer-patel-rwanda-b2064221.html
 

TwoSheds

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Criticises the Government, but doesn't offer an alternative - what would he do if he were in charge?
The alternative to wasting vast amounts of public money trying to illegally deport people to Rwanda is...don't try to deport people to Rwanda. It really doesn't need a policy more than "don't deliberately waste large amounts of public money to distract from how shit a job you're doing of running the country".
 

Jippy

Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes
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People would have to be really stupid to believe that this Rwanda scheme will deter people traffickers. But we all know how the government manage to brainwash the gullibles.
I do wonder how many of the government shills in the right wing media genuinely believe that the Rwanda policy will save lives, rather than spouting that line to mask their true motives for supporting it.

AMANDA PLATELL: How can bishops say a plan to stop women and little ones drowning is immoral?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...-stop-women-little-ones-drowning-immoral.html

Criticism of the Rwanda policy is misplaced without alternatives
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/12/criticism-rwanda-policy-misplaced-without-alternatives/

DOUGLAS MURRAY
Illegal migrants will stay in resort hotel with a pool – Left dubs this ‘hell’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18840074/priti-patel-woke-lawyers-rwanda/
 

dumbo

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"Mr speaker we have asylum seekers drowning in our waters, so clearly the Prime Minister is no Aquaman, in fact he's more like Spongebob squareman!" shadow cabinet fall about laughing. "what's more Mr speaker when I look at the Grenfell site and think of the lives lost and justice yet to be had, I ask myself 'can Boris the builder fix it' and the answer is No Way Jose!' And the blackhole of funny causes parliament to collapse in on itself.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I do wonder how many of the government shills in the right wing media genuinely believe that the Rwanda policy will save lives, rather than spouting that line to mask their true motives for supporting it.

AMANDA PLATELL: How can bishops say a plan to stop women and little ones drowning is immoral?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...-stop-women-little-ones-drowning-immoral.html

Criticism of the Rwanda policy is misplaced without alternatives
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/12/criticism-rwanda-policy-misplaced-without-alternatives/

DOUGLAS MURRAY
Illegal migrants will stay in resort hotel with a pool – Left dubs this ‘hell’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18840074/priti-patel-woke-lawyers-rwanda/
Any one with even the slightest intelligence should know the policy is absolutely nothing to do with saving lives. But the last six or seven years have convinced the government that they know they can say anything they like and millions of people will swallow it without question, hook line and sinker. Johnson is exploiting it to the full. The ability to think for themselves has gradually been sucked out of the electorate.
 

Superden

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you can tell that having his arguments and character forensically taken apart is one thing, but being called jabba the hut is the thing that hurt our bor.................................is the most.............................................................................
 

villain

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I don't think the need to offer an alternative means the government can't be criticised in what is an absolutely shitshow of a policy.

Another quick search in google find's what he would do. This is pretty simple & easy to find if you really want to listen to his view - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/refugees-keir-starmer-patel-rwanda-b2064221.html
The alternative to wasting vast amounts of public money trying to illegally deport people to Rwanda is...don't try to deport people to Rwanda. It really doesn't need a policy more than "don't deliberately waste large amounts of public money to distract from how shit a job you're doing of running the country".

This is my point - it's easy to criticise and say they'd do things differently, but he hardly ever comes out with a clear alternative policy proposal. Just looking to ride any wave of media/public negativity meanwhile the voters still struggle to know what he stands for.
 

Jippy

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Any one with even the slightest intelligence should know the policy is absolutely nothing to do with saving lives. But the last six or seven years have convinced the government that they know they can say anything they like and millions of people will swallow it without question, hook line and sinker. Johnson is exploiting it to the full. The ability to think for themselves has gradually been sucked out of the electorate.
That's certainly true- a bizarre apathy sets in when the Tories get in power.