I have to be honest - despite knowing the risk of appearing to be one of those 'loony conspiracy theorists' we all read about whenever something politically dodgy is going on - I find it incredibly hard to believe that recent elections (and the referendum) both here and in the U.S. were not 'fixed'.
Feels more that the right is far better at using social media and other insidious marketing means to drill their message into the masses' brains tbh.I have to be honest - despite knowing the risk of appearing to be one of those 'loony conspiracy theorists' we all read about whenever something politically dodgy is going on - I find it incredibly hard to believe that recent elections (and the referendum) both here and in the U.S. were not 'fixed'.
Yeah, good points, mate. My views are very often naive and unworldly. I just tend to think that, having run the world for centuries by means of chicanery, force and the malign influence of their wealth, why would the powers that be suddenly be content to rely on the built-in unpredictability of fair elections? And I wonder if we're merely comforting ourselves with denial if we believe that they would sit back, content to leave the perpetuation of their power to people like us. That's not what history has taught us, not how they have always acted, all glib and trusting notions of 'inevitable progress leading to democracy' aside.Feels more that the right is far better at using social media and other insidious marketing means to drill their message into the masses' brains tbh.
The peopl don't care. Outside of this thread most people only care about what the media narrative is, because they'd rather watch Love Island and don't like anything that requires a modicum of research, and since this group of corrupt feckers have all the editors in their pockets they're always going to win.Exactly.
They will spin and squirm and if that doesn't work, they will do what they usually do.
Lie and lie and lie.
Because they know that the people will fall for it.
I'm sure years ago I'd have found this view crazy, but these days it feels anything is possible given what we've seen since 2016.Yeah, good points, mate. My views are very often naive and unworldly. I just tend to think that, having run the world for centuries by means of chicanery, force and the malign influence of their wealth, why would the powers that be suddenly be content to rely on the built-in unpredictability of fair elections? And I wonder if we're merely comforting ourselves with denial if we believe that they would sit back, content to leave the perpetuation of their power to people like us. That's not what history has taught us, not how they have always acted, all glib and trusting notions of 'inevitable progress leading to democracy' aside.
Brexit put to the pure chance outcome of a referendum doesn't sit well with that view though.
It is, but what I could never figure out is why social media has been such a successful medium for the right when it's predominantly used by the young.Yes, everyone's 'out of step' except those that think like me! Social media the greatest medium every developed for the transfer of ignorance and development of echo chambers!
I'm surprised that you would ever find the idea crazy, unless I've explained it badly. I'm not talking of some vast, united conspiracy of 'the powers that be' (dreadful, hackneyed, and deservedly ridiculed term); rather, the usual stuff of people acting like Harry Lime in The Third Man - putting their self-interest above every human and humane consideration.I'm sure years ago I'd have found this view crazy, but these days it feels anything is possible given what we've seen since 2016.
Brexit put to the pure chance outcome of a referendum doesn't sit well with that view though.
I understand what you say, but is that strictly correct? My two daughters (late forties and early fifties) are both avid face-book and twitter users, not exactly youngsters (don't tell them I said so!) they are always telling me what their good friend on twitter or face-book was doing or saying and they repeated it brazenly as though it were true! I've tried pointing out to them that they could be repeating lies or even worse propaganda, "oh dad don't be so stuffy and old fashioned, every one uses social media, to get their message out.... even President Trump!!!!It is, but what I could never figure out is why social media has been such a successful medium for the right when it's predominantly used by the young.
STAY ALERT. CONTROL THE NARRATIVE. SAVE DOM.
Yeah, good points, mate. My views are very often naive and unworldly. I just tend to think that, having run the world for centuries by means of chicanery, force and the malign influence of their wealth, why would the powers that be suddenly be content to rely on the built-in unpredictability of fair elections? And I wonder if we're merely comforting ourselves with denial if we believe that they would sit back, content to leave the perpetuation of their power to people like us. That's not what history has taught us, not how they have always acted, all glib and trusting notions of 'inevitable progress leading to democracy' aside.
If I remember correctly, Miliband was the scholar who was described as 'hating Britain' by the red-tops et al; funny, that...I'd recommend Ralph Miliband's work if you haven't read any of his stuff already, Capitalist Democracy in Britain is a good one for explaining how the powerful do not rely on the built-in unpredictability of fair elections as you put it - and I'd dispute that they are "fair", but not because of fraud or stuffing ballot boxes or anything like that, although it would be naive to assume some dodgy stuff does not occur, especially at a local level.
This is true. The reality is that you can immerse yourself in as much political analysis as possible, educate yourself to microscopic detail, and your vote counts for just as much as someone’s who doesn’t think beyond reading the sun.The peopl don't care. Outside of this thread most people only care about what the media narrative is, because they'd rather watch Love Island and don't like anything that requires a modicum of research, and since this group of corrupt feckers have all the editors in their pockets they're always going to win.
If I remember correctly, Miliband was the scholar who was described as 'hating Britain' by the red-tops et al; funny, that...
There's obviously always been lies, corruption, backhanders, cronyism, manipulation of the message etc...You were talking about outright election-rigging, which I found harder to believe.I'm surprised that you would ever find the idea crazy, unless I've explained it badly. I'm not talking of some vast, united conspiracy of 'the powers that be' (dreadful, hackneyed, and deservedly ridiculed term); rather, the usual stuff of people acting like Harry Lime in The Third Man - putting their self-interest above every human and humane consideration.
Fair point on Facebook, I would associate it older generations and you've reminded me about my mother-in-law forwarding bs Indian Covid cures.I understand what you say, but is that strictly correct? My two daughters (late forties and early fifties) are both avid face-book and twitter users, not exactly youngsters (don't tell them I said so!) they are always telling me what their good friend on twitter or face-book was doing or saying and they repeated it brazenly as though it were true! I've tried pointing out to them that they could be repeating lies or even worse propaganda, "oh dad don't be so stuffy and old fashioned, every one uses social media, to get their message out.... even President Trump!!!!
Nuff said!
'Cos, obviously, Ed - for all his undoubted good intentions - was a major threat to the gravy train...Yep, and he was subject to a dogwhistle anti-Semitic attack in the Daily Mail during the 2015 campaign in an attempt to discredit his son Ed to which no one batted an eyelid, a few years before the press had a change of heart and decided anti-Semitism was bad after all.
Yep. And I doubt they're doing it because of personal affection for Cummings.If there was any doubt about how much sway Cummings has in Westminster now, you just have to look at the litany of Government Ministers currently falling over themselves on Twitter making tits of themselves excusing his actions.
It is, but what I could never figure out is why social media has been such a successful medium for the right when it's predominantly used by the young.
Keir Starmer is a bit quiet, isn't he?
Yep. And I doubt they're doing it because of personal affection for Cummings.
We put them there. The joke is on us.No.
It is the people running our country who are the joke.
And not a funny one at that.
We have turned into America. It isn't apathy. The other side must not win, no matter the cost.This I don't get. The vast majority of people happily ignored all of the Brexit lies, then swallowed all of the Tory ones too. Does feel like we have the government we deserve cos the majority is to stupid or apathetic to care.
Never really believed that Cummings had so much control over PM and the tory party....until now. Amazing that this is the hill they want to die on.
I think young people are wiser to social media and are harder to sway. You should see the things my parents send to me because they have seen it online.It is, but what I could never figure out is why social media has been such a successful medium for the right when it's predominantly used by the young.
I'm still taken aback by the rallying around Cummings. It's so brazen and Orwellian. Why not just offer a token apology, concede it was wrong but rally round him on the basis that they do not believe it is a resigning issue. That to me makes so much more sense. They'd look like hypocrites for the stance taken re Ferguson but it would be much easier to spin why his case was different and therefore incomparable. And to be honest I imagine people would care a lot less. What is especially infuriating about this is the attempt to even dismiss it as an issue.
If there was any doubt about how much sway Cummings has in Westminster now, you just have to look at the litany of Government Ministers currently falling over themselves on Twitter making tits of themselves excusing his actions.