Who would you have as our new manager

[Revan]

Completely unpredictable what would have happened under any given manager.

Yes Pep was excellent for them - but this doesn't have any relevance as to how good Ole could be for us or anybody else. For starters, Pep was Barcelona through and through; he came through their youth academy and after retiring, managed their reserves. Ole has been away from the United fold for a long time and doesn't have the same insight into the ability of the players as Guardiola had when he took over at Barca.

Ole also has coached United reserves. I guess that he has some idea about some of our young players.

Look, I know you're a trier, but your anti-Moyes droning is really getting rather boring. You're starting to sound as if you'd have anybody else at United. Moyes was not proven as 'bad' at Everton, he transformed them from a lower mid table team to one which chased Europe spots season after season. All of his former playing personnel have spoken highly of his man management, his tactical know how and his ability to get a lot out of a mediocre group of players. He was adored by the fans... and tactically was just fine: The mentality that his approach is naturally defensive is also not entirely true, he was well known for utilising a counter attack system just as Fergie did with United.

I wouldn't take any manager before Moyes, but surely I would take tens of managers before Moyes.

Moyes wasn't adored from Everton fans, don't have any idea where this comes from. If you look in the Everton thread you'll see how much he was loved from SilentWitness who is one of the best non United fans on redcafe. You can also check on other forums.

He wasn't never tactically fine. 46 games away against top 4 and zero victories. Zero trophies. How this is tactically fine.

I agree that he had the ability to make a solid team by a group of mediocre players which did better than they should have done in the league,

The issue regarding Moyes is clear: SAF left behind an old team that had played under him for years - the Fergie way of doing things was ingrained into their game, in many cases, right from the youth academy upwards and whoever took over; the case would always be that there'd be at least one very difficult season during the transition. He's not identical to Fergie and it will take time for the squad to adapt.

It depends how bad it is. This has been awful and I don't buy the idea that he should get a season when regardless how shit he is, he can be excused because we are in transition. And next year when a lot of players will go out and a lot of other players we sign I will guarantee you that people will use the same excuse again. Another year of transition. Transition would have been okay if he would have started playing some young players (which he hasn't done except on Januzaj), try a system which he plans to play in the future and fight for the fourth spot or so. That would have been a good transition. What we are seeing is the transition to Everton.

...and before you say 'Chelsea and City are doing fine with new managers'; they're completely different, the players there are used to seeing managers axed every 5 minutes as you'd clearly love to happen at United. Moreover, we've not spent in the same way they have this season and it's pretty clear our squad is ready for an overhaul. Fergie did just the same, and even with the signings of Viv Anderson and Brian McClair, still took several seasons and more players before results started coming good.

'Everon is doing fine with a new manager' who again continued having a negative net spend.

Now you can sit on your soap box on the other side of the ocean and scream for a new manager all you want, but I find that disappointing since I've long thought you were different to the majority of U.S United supporters who are only with us for the glory. Your screams for Moyes to go, the man handpicked by the best manager in football history, simply because the transition is rockier than you expected is tarring you with the same brush as the thousands of overseas plastics on Twitter who tweet #moyesout every time we go 1-0 down.

I am not for US and neither support United for the glory. If Moyes would have at-least try to play decent football then I would have been fine. I said many times that a few years without trophies wouldn't be the end of the world. Playing like Stoke City in disguise, getting worse results than them under Pulis and without a single sign of improvement during the entire season isn't and shouldn't be fine. I also don't care a lot that SAF has handpicked him, at that time said that it will be a mistake and it looks like it will be. Sir Alex also handpicked Young to replace Giggs and we saw how well it went. He is the best manager in the history of football but he isn't an oracle and to be fair in the last few years he has made a lot of strange decisions.

 

[Brophs]

But how can you propose we just wait around for another manager to become available, what do we do in the mean time? Klopp has said several times he does not want to leave Dortmund yet, I fail to understand why people simply cannot understand this. Guardiola will probably stay for at least 3-4 seasons now after which he will want another challenge. We cannot simply wait around, putting the club's development on hold while waiting for managers to become available. I agree with your point that all other managers come with risk and if they fail then what? the sack brigade will be out in force again. I personally want to see Moyes develop the team in the summer to a squad which he feels comfortable with and players he wants and then hopefully have a better 2nd season.

I'm not. My point is that our options are limited to either Klopp, a possibly long wait, or a riskier choice. As I've said on here plenty of times I don't want to see Moyes sacked until he's had a proper chance.

 

[Adebesi]

I never thought Pep would fancy us or anyone else in England for that matter. Didnt he leave Barca because he felt the pressure was getting to him? He didnt seem to enjoy his jousts with Mourinho. Why would be come into the viper's nest that is PL football with our media, knowing he'd end up resuming his rivalry with Mourinho? German football seems far more civilized. I dont know much about German football but I take it their media are not as intrusive and relentless as ours.

 

[TheGame]

I'm not. My point is that our options are limited to either Klopp, a possibly long wait, or a riskier choice. As I've said on here plenty of times I don't want to see Moyes sacked until he's had a proper chance.

I agree about Moyes, he need's the summer to build the squad he want, make those tough decisions and then improve next season. I know he is capable and I hope he can prove his doubters wrong.

 

[Brophs]

I never thought Pep would fancy us or anyone else in England for that matter. Didnt he leave Barca because he felt the pressure was getting to him? He didnt seem to enjoy his jousts with Mourinho. Why would be come into the viper's nest that is PL football with our media, knowing he'd end up resuming his rivalry with Mourinho? German football seems far more civilized. I dont know much about German football but I take it their media are not as intrusive and relentless as ours.

I've not heard him say it myself but a few journos have mentioned that he doesn't really believe in being the manager of a club in the long term, as he feels you can't have the same effect after a period of time. Perhaps that would have been a factor, even if he was interested.

 

[Varun]

I never thought Pep would fancy us or anyone else in England for that matter. Didnt he leave Barca because he felt the pressure was getting to him? He didnt seem to enjoy his jousts with Mourinho. Why would be come into the viper's nest that is PL football with our media, knowing he'd end up resuming his rivalry with Mourinho? German football seems far more civilized. I dont know much about German football but I take it their media are not as intrusive and relentless as ours.

He's almost certain to take up a club in England imo. He'l just get bored of Bayern in 4 seasons or so I feel and look for a new challenge. If am not wrong, he's even talked of wanting to come to England later.

 

[Adebesi]

Not saying you are wrong by any means @Varun_Utd, but out of interest why would he get bored at Bayern? Is it like Brophs said, he just likes to keep taking on new challenges? Or do you think the German league isnt competitive enough for him?

 

[Revan]

He's almost certain to take up a club in England imo. He'l just get bored of Bayern in 4 seasons or so I feel and look for a new challenge. If am not wrong, he's even talked of wanting to come to England later.

Why? Anyway, when he finishes his adventure on Bayern he'll go back to Barca. He never got bored of Barca, he got bored of Rosell instead.

 

[MrMarcello]

Mourinho but that ship has sailed. He won't leave Chelsea unless his contract ends.

Klopp seems the current flavor, then there's also Simeone. Perhaps Martinez as he'd have the club playing some attractive football.

Revan replied perfectly to 17 VDG's plastic fan post... Is Moyes going to sign a bunch of Osmans, Fellainis, and Pienaars, then have United play strictly wide with wingers in the Valencia mode whipping in 60-100 crosses per match? Can the club's management really entrust him with building a championship winning side?

The man got the job because he's Scottish, the most ridiculous reason I've heard of a man getting a top coaching job.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I've not heard him say it myself but a few journos have mentioned that he doesn't really believe in being the manager of a club in the long term, as he feels you can't have the same effect after a period of time. Perhaps that would have been a factor, even if he was interested.

Pep may be right about the optimal length of time for a manager, and, in practice, most clubs do have a fairly regular turnover. The Fergie model is more the exception, which is why I think the club probably put too much emphasis on Moyes's longevity and ability to regenerate teams at the expense of other relevant experience.

I tend to agree with the other poster who says he will get bored at Bayern. The German league is starting to resemble what the English league would be like if United were debt free and based in the country's richest city and neither Abramovich nor Abu Dhabi Group had appeared on the scene. Whether he would fancy the challenge of taking United back to the summit or the prospect of living in the North West is another matter.

 

[reelworld]

"What's wrong withe current regime" is that the club have dramatically underivested in the playing staff for a number of years. This will take time to put right. Moyes has more than a 6 month job on his hands, so how you can make the decision at this stage that he's failed is beyond me.

As regards other managers, its documented that Fergie mep Pep last year. Perhpas they discussed the job and perhaps Pep looked at it and realised the size of the task.

I'm not that's sure serious. United spent serious money on players over the last few years. Granted it's not on midfielders but they're not underinvested on the squad.

Moyes clearly is on a steep learning curve, but a lot of fans seem to want to blame him for the position we are in, and him alone. He can't be compared to other established manage4rs, because he isnt the finished articlte - but he also doesnt have the squads of players that the top managers have.

I think he's set on his way of doing things. If he wanted to change, we would see some signs of that right now. The learning curve is too steep for him.

If he gets 5 or 6 quality additions in the summer, and still doesn't perform then the critisim and calls for his sacking will be justified. But not until.

As regards "style of play" - I'm sure every manager wants to play beautiful football, but not all managers have the players to do it. Moyes has no midfield, a shaky and ageing defence and average wingers. he's also been without the PL's best forward last season for a lot of this.

Football is about results. I want to see decent football as a fan, but I dont think that has to be Barca-esqe 1000 passes a game stuff. I look at Arsenal, over the last few years style over substance and nothing to show for it. I enjoy the style United have played over the years, getting it wide, powerful and pacy players and counter attacking. Its entertaining to me - more so than passing for passing's sake.

The suggestion that Moyes is limited tactically seems to be based on a few games (Fulham in particular) when at times this season we've played decent stuff. People should take a look at the teams Fergie put together - not always the most easy on the eye in terms of style but brilliant teams nonetheless.

5 or 6 quality addition would cost the club about 200 million pounds, so no, he's not gonna get that. Several managers in the league managed to get their squad playing better football than Moyes with less money.

 

[reelworld]

I'm leaning to jump on the Ole bandwagon. From all accounts on his time in Molde, his team played good attacking football. Breaks the Copenhagen and Brondby dominance like Fergie did with Aberdeen. Knows our youth setup well, and he would command a degree of respect from the players given his stature at the club.

 

[Bojan11]

Don't get the Ole mentions. He's hardly set the world alight at Cardiff.

I'd rather have Potchetinno than Ole.

 

[Varun]

Not saying you are wrong by any means @Varun_Utd, but out of interest why would he get bored at Bayern? Is it like Brophs said, he just likes to keep taking on new challenges? Or do you think the German league isnt competitive enough for him?

Head's up: I know its a long response, saw it after I finished typing. Just stop reading after the first 2 paragraphs if you want, those are the only ones that deal specifically to what you asked

IIRC, he has talked earlier about managers at a club having a shelf life. He says there's only so much one can do before it becomes repetitive and nothing new is added. Add that to the fact that I see Bayern absolutely dominating the Bundesliga till he's there, I just dont see how appealing it will be for him in 3-4 years time. He's just too good a manager with quite simply the best squad in the league to not win it almost every year. The only way it can change is if Dortmund spend massively as they too have a top manager. But somehow, I see Bayern winning the league 3yrs out of 4 if he stays there. Then it must get boring for someone who believes what I said earlier. Add that to the fact that he's admitted to wanting to coach in England and I see it happening for sure.

The problem is, we cant really wait 4 years for him to get bored and persist with Moyes if things dont improve drastically here. We'd need to find someone else. Thing is, I really want us to recognize the fact that Sir Alex or Wenger are anomalies. It isnt the norm. Look at Bayern, supposed to be the model of everything that is football atm, how often do they change managers? One cannot select a manager based on the fact that he'd stay 20yrs, football is far too unpredictable for that. I dont see why we cant hire someone like Pep or Mourinho (even though that ship sailed) even if they'd only stay for 4-5 years. Its absolutely normal.

We really fecked up with Mourinho and Pep in the summer. The topic's been beaten to death here but still, to think we could have had them but went for Moyes. Mental.

I also dont understand this talk about Sir Alex knowing more than anyone else and as he chose him, we must persist. Sir Alex was a great manager, not some kind of fortune teller who could look into the future. He's fecked up with signings before and he's as likely to pick the wrong successor. It really isnt tough to imagine. I'm all for giving Moyes time, but he cannot be handed a free reign and neither do i subscribe to this belief that this season cannot be used to judge him at all. We have some great talent in the squad. It certainly is not worse than the likes of Spurs, Everton, Pool etc who are all above us. There has to be an accountability. If we finish the season 7-8th and continue playing the way we have this summer, we must look for alternatives at the top. And we must look for top managers who have proven themselves. None of this emotional nonsense about Ole, Giggs etc. They need to earn it just like any other manager out there. Then, if we can get a top manager in, give that guy the cash to spend. The only reason I'd want Moyes here next season even if he fails at everything this year till the end is if we cant find someone better. Then, there's no point shooting ourselves in the foot and sacking him just to appoint someone as bad. But it really cant be that tough to find someone better than Moyes tbf.

Why? Anyway, when he finishes his adventure on Bayern he'll go back to Barca. He never got bored of Barca, he got bored of Rosell instead.

Read above for the why.

Regarding Barca, I fully believe he'l have a spell in England before going to Barca. It'l be his last club destination in a way as I cant see him not managing in England and cant see him doing 3 years at Barca and leaving again to go to another club only to return again.

 

[sun_tzu]

I think if pep goes anywhere it will be to take over from del bosque possibly after the euros as he will be 65 and have been in charge for 8 years by then

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I'm leaning to jump on the Ole bandwagon. From all accounts on his time in Molde, his team played good attacking football. Breaks the Copenhagen and Brondby dominance like Fergie did with Aberdeen. Knows our youth setup well, and he would command a degree of respect from the players given his stature at the club.

why don't we wait a few years and see if he's cut out for management at a real level first. Displacing a proven excellent prem coach with an utter unknown seems like madness that someone responsible for a big club wouldn't do

 

[Adebesi]

I'm all for giving Moyes time, but he cannot be handed a free reign and neither do i subscribe to this belief that this season cannot be used to judge him at all. We have some great talent in the squad. It certainly is not worse than the likes of Spurs, Everton, Pool etc who are all above us. There has to be an accountability. If we finish the season 7-8th and continue playing the way we have this summer, we must look for alternatives at the top. And we must look for top managers who have proven themselves. None of this emotional nonsense about Ole, Giggs etc. They need to earn it just like any other manager out there. Then, if we can get a top manager in, give that guy the cash to spend. The only reason I'd want Moyes here next season even if he fails at everything this year till the end is if we cant find someone better. Then, there's no point shooting ourselves in the foot and sacking him just to appoint someone as bad. But it really cant be that tough to find someone better than Moyes tbf.

I cant say I disagree with any of this. My instinct would be perhaps to give a bit more time than you are hinting at. I dont say we dont judge Moyes on this season at all, but I am inclined to consider mitigating circumstances and turn the other cheek unless we fall even further, for simplicity's sake I think bottom half of the table = curtains for Moyes in the summer, and then we get into December / end of next season to review his position.

BUT, that is working on the assumption that there are no top managers available. I havent read all this thread, to read pages and pages of people saying, "Klopp", "Mourinho", "Guardiola", bores me a bit as I do not believe they will come. I dont think we should sack Moyes for Hiddink, for example, this summer, though I would favour that kind of a tactical, safe-pair-of-hands switch if things are going wrong in year 2. But if someone really good, someone with fantastic credentials came onto the scene in the summer, and we had just come in 7-8th, I think that would make sense.

If we did kick Moyes out this summer for Hiddink, for example, I wouldnt complain. Id see it as an upgrade. Id feel a bit sad for Moyes he hadnt been given more of a chance, I really do feel people underestimate the difficulties of the circumstances he has faced, and how much other managers would have struggled (maybe not quite this much, but a fair bit IMO). But I just feel unless we are really going for an A List manager we should bide our time and give Moyes a bit more of a chance. But we should be preparing for his failure, thinking about other candidates. #

Two more things I agree with you about. No talk of Ole please. Let's let him get on with it at Cardiff and see how that works out. And no, let's not get bogged down in 20 year appointments again, let's just take things one step at a time, get the man who can salvage our present, and worry about tomorrow later.

 

[simonhch]

I agree about Moyes, he need's the summer to build the squad he want, make those tough decisions and then improve next season. I know he is capable and I hope he can prove his doubters wrong.

Capable of what though. Don't doubt he is competent but is he a winner? He's won nothing in his career to date and is taking on a club that demands success. It was an incredible appointment by the club and one that I struggle to understand. But he's here to stay for the medium term at least, so I will be happy to be proved wrong because it'll mean he, and therefore the club, have succeeded.

Pep and Klopp are light years ahead of Moyes in terms of coaching ability and credentials. We should've done whatever it took to get Pep to succeed Fergie. The fact he went to Bayern at the exact same time is a huge source of disappointment. I think the club managed the long awaited succession, very poorly.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Frankly that idea is nonsense.

Not nonsense until proven otherwise

 

[do.ob]

Capable of what though. Don't doubt he is competent but is he a winner? He's won nothing in his career to date and is taking on a club that demands success. It was an incredible appointment by the club and one that I struggle to understand. But he's here to stay for the medium term at least, so I will be happy to be proved wrong because it'll mean he, and therefore the club, have succeeded.

Pep and Klopp are light years ahead of Moyes in terms of coaching ability and credentials. We should've done whatever it took to get Pep to succeed Fergie. The fact he went to Bayern at the exact same time is a huge source of disappointment. I think the club managed the long awaited succession, very poorly.

As far as I know Bayern sealed the deal with Pep towards the end of 2012, was United even aware of SAF's desire to retire(heh)?
And what do you mean by whatever it took? City and Chelsea supposedly already outbid Bayern heavily in terms of wages, but that wasn't enough to get him. Messi/Ronaldo aside Bayern probably easily have the strongest squad in Europe by now. They are also probably the healthiest club around in terms of finances and if Hoeneß spoke the truth about being able to invest an additional €20-30m per season into the squad once the AA is paid for, they will be able (net) spend €40-50m on transfers every year. Bayern also already had the best tactical foundation for Pep's style of football (thanks to Heynckes and especially van Gaal) and they are probably the club that's closest to la masia when it comes to producing their own world class players.
So I really don't see any evidence that suggests United had a realistic chance of signing him.

 

[simonhch]

As far as I know Bayern sealed the deal with Pep towards the end of 2012, was United even aware of SAF's desire to retire(heh)?
And what do you mean by whatever it took? City and Chelsea supposedly already outbid Bayern heavily in terms of wages, but that wasn't enough to get him. Messi/Ronaldo aside Bayern probably easily have the strongest squad in Europe by now. They are also probably the healthiest club around in terms of finances and if Hoeneß spoke the truth about being able to invest an additional €20-30m per season into the squad once the AA is paid for, they will be able (net) spend €40-50m on transfers every year. Bayern also already had the best tactical foundation for Pep's style of football (thanks to Heynckes and especially van Gaal) and they are probably the club that's closest to la masia when it comes to producing their own world class players.
So I really don't see any evidence that suggests United had a realistic chance of signing him.

But by late 2012 Fergie had already decided he was retiring at the end of the season, as was later revealed. Hence his incredible despair at the nature of the elimination to Real in February. United are also in an incredibly healthy position financially. With the new sponsorship and TV deals, that is only going to enhance the club's position as having the best EBDITA. United are definitely on an even playing field with Bayern in this regard. Potentially an even better one. - Yes, Bayern have an excellent squad. But football is cyclical as we all know. Just 3 years ago United were celebrating a 3rd CL final in 4 years. As for youth players. Again, there is a cyclical nature about producing vintage generations of players. It doesn't happen every time. In terms of raw numbers, Bayern have less academy graduates playing the top flight of Europe's 5 biggest leagues than Manchester United do.

This is just to give your post some perspective. I do not buy into the idea that United had no chance in luring Pep. For one, United play in the Premier League which is the pinnacle of domestic league competition by virtue of it's global exposure and popularity. The main draw I think for Bayern over United when it comes to Pep is his possible preference for limited competition. His only competition in Spain was Real, other than that it was a cake walk for him and in Germany it is even more one sided right now. His first task has been to weaken his closest rival of their best player and next summer he will take their next best player. With both clubs he has an excellent squad that can focus it's energy on succeeding in Europe.

 

[do.ob]

It wasn't really like Pep had a big choice when he joined Barca, I doubt that any other European top club would've taken him at the time. So really all you're basing your preference for limited competition theory on is the fact that he didn't join a PL club last summer. And I think Bayern would've signed Lewandowski and Götze regardless of Pep, afaik he even wanted to sign Neymar over Götze.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to start a X>Y derailing but I just don't understand why people here seem to be under the impression that United had a choice between Moyes and Pep or Klopp when there is zero factual basis for that assumption.

 

[KGBhoy]

I didn't read the entire thread, but was Lippi mentioned? He could still do the job.

 

[Balu]

The main draw I think for Bayern over United when it comes to Pep is his possible preference for limited competition. His only competition in Spain was Real, other than that it was a cake walk for him and in Germany it is even more one sided right now. His first task has been to weaken his closest rival of their best player and next summer he will take their next best player. With both clubs he has an excellent squad that can focus it's energy on succeeding in Europe.

When Pep signed for Bayern in January 2013, United was running away with the league, Dortmund made City look like schoolboys twice, Schalke beat Arsenal and finished 1st in their CL group and Chelsea finished 3rd and was out of the CL. That must have looked like an incredible challenge for Guardiola, pretty sure he was frightened and therefore instantly turned his back on United.

 

[reelworld]

why don't we wait a few years and see if he's cut out for management at a real level first. Displacing a proven excellent prem coach with an utter unknown seems like madness that someone responsible for a big club wouldn't do

Never said that Ole would be perfect. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but my gut feeling is that he would do well at United for reason I mentioned. Would that be enough? I dont know

 

[RedRover]

I'm not that's sure serious. United spent serious money on players over the last few years. Granted it's not on midfielders but they're not underinvested on the squad.

I think he's set on his way of doing things. If he wanted to change, we would see some signs of that right now. The learning curve is too steep for him.

5 or 6 quality addition would cost the club about 200 million pounds, so no, he's not gonna get that. Several managers in the league managed to get their squad playing better football than Moyes with less money.

It remaiins to be seen waht he gets to spend. Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand will be gone at least - so added to the neccessity for at least two midfield players, that is where I get the 5/6 players.

You dont know he's not capable, nobody does. He's been let down by the board not getting what he needed and has also been unlucky in losing his two best players for long spells.

Fans love to blame a manager when at best they have half the story. Blaming him for all of this is shortsighted and simply down to fans being desperate to believe that a new manager will sole all of the problems.

Fergie worked miracles last year - most manager could not. This year the better players are a year older, some are hiding and others over the hill. A decline, to some degree was inevitable and everyone reasonable expects that. he therefore needs time and money to do the job he's been asked to do - before any knee jerk reactions are made.

 

[simonhch]

It wasn't really like Pep had a big choice when he joined Barca, I doubt that any other European top club would've taken him at the time. So really all you're basing your preference for limited competition theory on is the fact that he didn't join a PL club last summer. And I think Bayern would've signed Lewandowski and Götze regardless of Pep, afaik he even wanted to sign Neymar over Götze.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to start a X>Y derailing but I just don't understand why people here seem to be under the impression that United had a choice between Moyes and Pep or Klopp when there is zero factual basis for that assumption.

I have no factual basis for anything I am saying. Just like you have no factual basis for saying United had no chance of luring him in. So it's tit for tat. My point was purely that if Pep was available, United should've moved heaven and earth to hire him. Something which I believe (not know) that he would've given serious consideration. For all I know, they did try but the noises coming out of OT are that Moyes was the one and only choice. Then again, they would say that wouldn't they? lol

When Pep signed for Bayern in January 2013, United was running away with the league, Dortmund made City look like schoolboys twice, Schalke beat Arsenal and finished 1st in their CL group and Chelsea finished 3rd and was out of the CL. That must have looked like an incredible challenge for Guardiola, pretty sure he was frightened and therefore instantly turned his back on United.

United were widely accepted to be "overperforming" and it was clear to fans and pundits alike that there were some major deficiencies in the squad that would need to be addressed. I don't think anyone thought this was the start of another great team without some major signings. Bayern, despite the isolated examples you cite, were already touted as favourites for the CL, a feeling that only strengthened as the season went on. Dortmund have a great manager but have been swimming against the tide for a while as they continually get stripped of their best players. Such is the case for clubs with limited resources.

 

[Balu]

The reasons, some of the fans on the Caf come up with to explain why managers and players chose other teams over United, are amazing .

 

[do.ob]

I have no factual basis for anything I am saying. Just like you have no factual basis for saying United had no chance of luring him in. So it's tit for tat. My point was purely that if Pep was available, United should've moved heaven and earth to hire him. Something which I believe (not know) that he would've given serious consideration. For all I know, they did try but the noises coming out of OT are that Moyes was the one and only choice. Then again, they would say that wouldn't they? lol

I never said that United had no chance at all, my point is that there was no indication that Pep was open to joining another club than Bayern, especially since he reportedly turned down much bigger offers from two PL clubs. And no one even knows that United didn't make a strong move for him. Thus I don't understand why people blame the management for not signing him.

 

[simonhch]

I never said that United had no chance at all, my point is that there was no indication that Pep was open to joining another club than Bayern, especially since he reportedly turned down much bigger offers from two PL clubs. And no one even knows that United didn't make a strong move for him. Thus I don't understand why people blame the management for not signing him.

You said 'no realistic chance', so we are just splitting hairs here. I can't claim a factual basis for saying so one way or another. My point is and was that the club should've gone balls for the walls for Pep and if they didn't and they let Bayern just sign him up, then that would disappoint me hugely. This all stems from the belief that United is one of (if not the) biggest clubs in the world and should have one of the best managers in the world. Not David "81 crosses" Moyes.

 

[do.ob]

You said 'no realistic chance', so we are just splitting hairs here. I can't claim a factual basis for saying so one way or another. My point is and was that the club should've gone balls for the walls for Pep and if they didn't and they let Bayern just sign him up, then that would disappoint me hugely. This all stems from the belief that United is one of (if not the) biggest clubs in the world and should have one of the best managers in the world. Not David "81 crosses" Moyes.

That 'if' is my point. No one knows if they made an attempt or not yet from what I've read a lot of people blame the officials for not signing Pep.
I said that there is nothing suggesting that Pep was open for a move to United, turning most of the pep-related post into a simple equation:

No idea if pep even wanted to join United + no idea if United tried to sign him + no idea how much they offered him if they did try = don't blame the management for not signing him.

 

[simonhch]

That 'if' is my point. No one knows if they made an attempt or not yet from what I've read a lot of people blame the officials for not signing Pep.
I said that there is nothing suggesting that Pep was open for a move to United, turning most of the pep-related post into a simple equation:

No idea if pep even wanted to join United + no idea if United tried to sign him + no idea how much they offered him if they did try = don't blame the management for not signing him.

That equation doesn't add up because (a) there's as much evidence he did want to join as there is he didn't. i.e. none. (b) If they didn't try to sign him, then why the feck not? (c) If they did try to sign him and it came down to not offering him enough, then that's a massive goof.

So it's much easier to blame the management and pretend like it all could've been better than it is now. Stop trying to ruin it for me.

 

[M'n'M]

I haven't read past page 1 but I think it's very funny that some are suggesting Ole Gunnar as your next manager probably because of the love you felt for him as a player more than his minimal success as a manager. I wonder are these people the same who have mocked Liverpool fans for wanting to see the return of Kenny Dalglish for both the love we felt and his excellent managerial record.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I'm leaning to jump on the Ole bandwagon. From all accounts on his time in Molde, his team played good attacking football. Breaks the Copenhagen and Brondby dominance like Fergie did with Aberdeen. Knows our youth setup well, and he would command a degree of respect from the players given his stature at the club.

Eh? A bit further south, those two, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[An Irish Red]

I haven't read past page 1 but I think it's very funny that some are suggesting Ole Gunnar as your next manager probably because of the love you felt for him as a player more than his minimal success as a manager. I wonder are these people the same who have mocked Liverpool fans for wanting to see the return of Kenny Dalglish for both the love we felt and his excellent managerial record.

I get your point but there's a bit of a difference between a talented young manager and someone that hadn't managed in decades.

 

[Brophs]

Eh? A bit further south, those two, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Sixpence]

Ancelotti seems to not be doing very well at Madrid...which i dont belive for a second is a bad sign,. SAF would fail at that circus. Perhaps best to keep an eye on him over the next 12 months.

Are you serious? He has them on course for a very good shot at the treble I think. And they are unbeaten in about 25 matches now and looking pretty ruthless as you would expect with the squad he has. He is doing just fine there.

I would love him here though if he falls out with them over the next few years and nobody stays at Madrid too long anyway. He's still remarkably only 54 and has plenty of time to make the move here in the future. He'd be brilliant here. A class gentleman, brilliant tactical brain, great presence and a proven world class manager wherever he's been in Europe. His aura and presence is about the same as Mourinho's I would say, players just want to play under one of the best coaches ever such as Ancelotti. Players would instantly respect Ancelotti if he walked through the door as his CV speaks for itself. Don't know anyone in football that doesn't have complete respect for the man.

My absolute no.1 choice for our next manager. If that means staying with Moyes for another 2 years until he leaves Madrid then so be it.

 

[M'n'M]

I get your point but there's a bit of a difference between a talented young manager and someone that hadn't managed in decades.

There certainly is. One was a proven winner, the other is a hopeful punt (and no, that's not intentional rhyming slang)

 

[Dominos]

Ancelotti seems to not be doing very well at Madrid...which i dont belive for a second is a bad sign,. SAF would fail at that circus. Perhaps best to keep an eye on him over the next 12 months.

Huh? In the final of the CDR, joint top of the table (2nd on goal difference) and topped their CL group.

Moyes this season has put in perspective what it means to fail at a big club. I've heard Mourinho's tenure at Madrid be described as a failure, likewise Pellegrini. What can happen is a manager comes in and is totally out of his depth, and drags the club into a position you wouldn't have even thought was possible before he took over. Finishing 2nd or finishing a season trophy-less is not failure, we're experience failure right now.

 

[Ringo 07]

Yeah lets an unproven manager who has had a brief spell of success in and its a good thing he speaks no english , seriously this thread is beginning to demonstrate the lack of options and why there needs to be a proper plan proposed rather than just 'sack moyes' which alot of people are just harping on about.

Roberto Martinez was fairly unproven last year before Everton gave him the job......I don't think you'd find a fan of Everton now who would take Back Moyes for Martinez ever again if they were offered the chance