Who would you have as our new manager

Neither would be my choice (too much of a gamble for a club of our stature) but both are relatively young and would offer the prospect of modern football. More grounds for optimism than a trophyless manager in his 50s known for dour, reactive football.
Every sentence in the post begins with "If the owners want".

And that particular example is at the bottom of the list and is clearly the least desirable of all of them.

To be fair, mentionining those two, even if they're they least wanted option, smells like a will to start a revolution without any proper plan on what to do after. Those people should not be near our club, not now, not untill they win trophies and prove that they're United worthy, if not, we'd be making the same type of an appointment.
 
Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, & Rudi Garcia do not look like leaving in the short term, Conte & Simeone are in the middle of building Champions League sides and will probably want to see it through, Hiddink too old, Bielsa too insane, Van Gaal too old and too insane. I don't think there are great options around really.
Are we yet again setting ourselves aside from every other top club by declaring a manager over 60 as too old?

The reason we're in this mess in the first place is our idealistic philosophy, if we appoint another no-name because he could be a "long term" manager I might just give up on life.
 
You'd seriously replace medicority we're witnessing with more medicority? What's the point ? If we'd be going for a new manager then he should be only top shelf.
How do you know they won't be "top shelf" in the future? Is it written in stone that there one club of great managers and it will moly include guardiola, klopp and mourinho? Guardiola was all ideas and potential when barca gave him a chance.
 
The sad thing is that the ship seems to have sailed on these names for the time being. How will we convince them to join if we give Moyes the boot now?

"Klopp, fancy taking over at United?"

"Why, what are you offering?"

"We give our managers time to build a team and imprint their philosophy on the club"

"Isn't that what you told your last manager, who lasted a few months? "

"Er...."

No manager will need much convincing if we line up an offer for them. We are Manchester United, there are perhaps two or three managers in the world that could turn us down because they are at clubs of an equal stature.
 
Are we yet again setting ourselves aside from every other top club by declaring a manager over 60 as too old?

The reason we're in this mess in the first place is our idealistic philosophy, if we appoint another no-name because he could be a "long term" manager I might just give up on life.

I actually wouldn't mind us appointing someone with little experience as long as they had the right mentality. I think someone like Pochettino could be a decent option, for example. Although that's obviously dependent on whether any true top bracket managers are available or not.
 
I could see that happening in the summer but I can't see him leaving Dortmund half way through the season. If we are going to replace Moyes I think we'll just have to wait.

Personally I don't think Klopp is going anywhere for awhile. He seems very committed to Dortmund and I think he'll be there for at least another couple of season, if not through the end of his contract.

I just wanted to make the point that firing Moyes at the end of this season wouldn't dissuade managers from the United job. I think any candidate would be aware that if they fail as spectacularly as Moyes has and offer absolutely zero hope of improvement, they won't last long.
 
Can't see Kloop leaving Dortmund at all. He's made that quite clear.

We had the perfect oppurtunity with Guardiola, Anchelotti and Mourinho all happening to be available in the same Summer that Fergie was retiring, and we went for Moyes. Its so tragic you couldnt make it up. It was like an ABU's wet dream. And now we're stuck in a situation were even if we do sack Moyes, the top top managers all have jobs that suit them.
 
Admittedly, it's far easier for me to say we should get rid of Moyes than to say who we should get to replace him. It's just that Mourinho was such a simple and fitting solution while Klopp would also have been a great possibility. But those are out of the question and as I don't want us to get one of the older guys like Capello, and don't want to risk it with Van Gaal's character, them I'm left with a bunch of good options full of question marks. I wish we could do an Arsenal and find a Wenger or something like that. Someone who is not that well known but just needs the chance.

But at the end of the day if we do our homework we'll have a better chance of getting a man with the right character and especially the right football ideas. The sort of homework which surely weren't done when the process started and ended with Fergie choosing Moyes.
 
I just wanted to make the point that firing Moyes at the end of this season wouldn't dissuade managers from the United job. I think any candidate would be aware that if they fail as spectacularly as Moyes has and offer absolutely zero hope of improvement, they won't last long.

When other clubs sack managers quickly we always say that other managers won't want to go there. But that's nonsense, they always do. Chelsea have shown that. Heck, we said no one would want the Cardiff job when they sacked Mackay. And look who took the job?

If and when, any manager would understand why United let go of Moyes.
 
Admittedly, it's far easier for me to say we should get rid of Moyes than to say who we should get to replace him. It's just that Mourinho was such a simple and fitting solution while Klopp would also have been a great possibility. But those are out of the question and as I don't want us to get one of the older guys like Capello, and don't want to risk it with Van Gaal's character, them I'm left with a bunch of good options full of question marks. I wish we could do an Arsenal and find a Wenger or something like that. Someone who is not that well known but just needs the chance.

But at the end of the day if we do our homework we'll have a better chance of getting a man with the right character and especially the right football ideas. The sort of homework which surely weren't done when the process started and ended with Fergie choosing Moyes.

I have a horrible, horrible feeling that while Fergie & Charlton still have such a big say, those football ideas will be managers that focus on wingers and 4-4-2. I.e, the 'United Way'. Can you imagine if we finally fired Moyes and then bought in another 'Fergie MKII''? I think I'd cry.
 
How do you know they won't be "top shelf" in the future? Is it written in stone that there one club of great managers and it will moly include guardiola, klopp and mourinho? Guardiola was all ideas and potential when barca gave him a chance.

In the future? Why should I care what they will be in the future? People here can't stand Moyes, give absolutely zero feck about what he might turn out to be in the future, so why would I give any benefit of a doubt to those ?

We need some very good manager right now, somebody who is top shelf already and not somebody who 'can be' top shelf in 'some years'. Right now, as I've said, we'd be swapping medicority with medicority and nothing besides it.
 
I have a horrible, horrible feeling that while Fergie & Charlton still have such a big say, those football ideas will be managers that focus on wingers and 4-4-2. I.e, the 'United Way'. Can you imagine if we finally fired Moyes and then bought in another 'Fergie MKII''? I think I'd cry.

Yeah, I see that. But I think that whether Fergie is the one who decides to let Moyes go or the Glazers do, things will be done differently the next time. They must surely learn from the experience. Plus, I don't see another British or British type manager we can appoint. Unless his fall from grace and the good work done by Rodgers, Moyes was head and shoulders above others.

Of course, I don't have much confidence the issue of a 'next manager' would be relevant any time soon.
 
Sam Allardyce is probably waiting by the phone.

And Roy could be out of a job in the summer too.
 
Even if we wanted to, we cant appoint another British manager. There's only 1 good one going about and he's the Pool manager.
 
Yeah, I see that. But I think that whether Fergie is the one who decides to let Moyes go or the Glazers do, things will be done differently the next time. They must surely learn from the experience. Plus, I don't see another British or British type manager we can appoint. Unless his fall from grace and the good work done by Rodgers, Moyes was head and shoulders above others.

Of course, I don't have much confidence the issue of a 'next manager' would be relevant any time soon.
To be fair, this is what they said when Fergie retired and they said they didn't want to make the same mistake we did after Busby, but what do we do? The exact thing we said we wouldn't. It really was a strange appointment considering in the years prior, Gill and Fergie were saying they'd get somebody experienced, somebody who has won trophies both domestically and done well on a European level. Appointing Moyes went against everything they were saying they'd do.
 
Are we yet again setting ourselves aside from every other top club by declaring a manager over 60 as too old?

The reason we're in this mess in the first place is our idealistic philosophy, if we appoint another no-name because he could be a "long term" manager I might just give up on life.

Well, Capello will be 68 by the start of the season, Hiddink will turn 68 soon afterwards, Lippi and Hitzfeld are both the wrong side of 65, and Van Gaal (63 by the start of the season) says he'll retire if he doesn't find another club job. As capable as these guys are, we might be lucky to get 2 seasons out of some of them.

There's nothing wrong with looking for an experienced candidate (in fact I'd advocate it), but there are limits, and I personally I'd favour someone we know has a realistic chance of giving the club 4-5 good years to oversee this transition. I'm not sure a 65+ year old former great looking for one last bumper contract to ease him into his retirement years, is going to have the energy and drive necessary (or even the inclination) to push through a significant squad overhaul. I'd rather we went for characters like Klopp, Conte, Simeone, who are on their way up, or seasoned professionals like Garcia and Ancelotti.

I don't actually think that would set us apart from every other top club in world football, and nor do I think it would lead us inexorably into selecting another candidate in the mould of David Moyes.
 
Age shouldnt be that big a criteria. If we can get a top manager in for say 3 years, it isnt a problem at all. A lot will change in 3 yrs. We could have another last summer situation where top managers likes Guardiola are in the market. Then, it'l be upto us to do the sensible thing and not pick a Moyes again.
 
Well, Capello will be 68 by the start of the season, Hiddink will turn 68 soon afterwards, Lippi and Hitzfeld are both the wrong side of 65, and Van Gaal (63 by the start of the season) says he'll retire if he doesn't find another club job. As capable as these guys are, we might be lucky to get 2 seasons out of some of them.

There's nothing wrong with looking for an experienced candidate (in fact I'd advocate it), but there are limits, and I personally I'd favour someone we know has a realistic chance of giving the club 4-5 good years to oversee this transition. I'm not sure a 65+ year old former great looking for one last bumper contract to ease him into his retirement years, is going to have the energy and drive necessary (or even the inclination) to push through a significant squad overhaul. I'd rather we went for characters like Klopp, Conte, Simeone, who are on their way up, or seasoned professionals like Garcia and Ancelotti.

I don't actually think that would set us apart from every other top club in world football, and nor do I think it would lead us inexorably into selecting another candidate in the mould of David Moyes.
The best option for us after Fergie would have been to get somebody like Hiddink in for 2-3 years to make it a smooth transition and see us through to when Klopp feels like leaving Dortmund. Sort of like what Bayern did with Heynckes, winning the champions league then handing it off to Pep.
Anyways, its not all about long term, these next 2-3 years are worth as much as 2-3 years would be worth 10 years down the line... Some people get too hung up on "long term" viewpoints that they ignore short term.
 
i think in 4 or 5 years guardiola will be satisfied, or finished with his bayern experience regardless of whatever success he may taste, and will want to come to the premier league. at that point i see us and arsenal as being the real choices, arsenal especially with wenger really approaching his retirement, could prove to be some timing for guardiola.
 
Pochettino. Haven't seen a more obvious choice for a managerial position in a long time. The moment he stepped into Soton you could see where he was taking the team. He's a modern day manager with big ambition and a refreshing style of football. His players totally buy into his plan he still uses 2 forwards.
 
Pochettino. Haven't seen a more obvious choice for a managerial position in a long time. The moment he stepped into Soton you could see where he was taking the team. He's a modern day manager with big ambition and a refreshing style of football. His players totally buy into his plan he still uses 2 forwards.
m8 he's jus moyes 2.0 wers his trophies?????
 
m8 he's jus moyes 2.0 wers his trophies?????
Not saying we should get him, but he at least has Southampton playing good attacking football, with high pressing and modern tactics. Also he's got them punching above their weight a bit, and he's still a young manager. He'd be a better option then Moyes simply because he has Southampton playing modern, attacking football and they are doing well at the same time.
 
seeing some clamor for Giggsy on twitter today

I know I have just been arguing that if Moyes leaves experience shouldn't be the only thing we demand from a potential candidate, but replacing him with Giggs, who has absolutely no managerial experience, would be utterly stupid.
 
Roberto Martinez is almost in the same place Moyes was pre-United, so I don't get why he's being mentioned.

And please, let's not sprout the BS about him at least playing attractive football, because if he did play attractive football and didn't win trophies, it might take longer than it has with Moyes, but people will turn on him too.
 
Not saying we should get him, but he at least has Southampton playing good attacking football, with high pressing and modern tactics. Also he's got them punching above their weight a bit, and he's still a young manager. He'd be a better option then Moyes simply because he has Southampton playing modern, attacking football and they are doing well at the same time.
moyes was playing incredible football with everton at times as well though, i'll never forget the 2-1 vs southampton, it was the best performance of any team that season.
 
moyes was playing incredible football with everton at times as well though, i'll never forget the 2-1 vs southampton, it was the best performance of any team that season.
Incredible football? Please. Everton had some good moments of play but even at our most boring style under Fergie these last few seasons, we were miles better to watch then Everton under Moyes ever was. Martinez with half a year at Everton has them playing more attractive football consistently then Moyes managed to do in a decade there, while keeping similar results. The main reason I and many other posters were so against Moyes in the first place wasn't because of his lack of trophies (although that played a part). It was because for the most part, he always had his teams play long ball football, and favoured athletes and keeping defensive shape in every single game, rather then encouraging free flowing attacking football. Moyes' ideal way of attacking is clearly with loads of crosses into the box from all angles, as he has us playing on occasion and he had Everton playing. It's a shit percentage style football. Sure you can get some good performances here or there if you have a good crossing day, but it's just glorified hoofing up to a target man like how they used Fellaini.
 
I thought one of the reasons we brought in Moyes was his ability to perform on a budget. But then when you look at the wage bills of him and some of the other managers that are on people's lists, you really do wonder who got bang for their buck...

Wage bills (as of Jan 2013)
Everton FC: 74 million Euro
Borussia Dortmund: 79 million Euro
Atletico Madrid: 67 million Euro

That being said, he does have a lower transfer net spend than Klopp over the last 5 years though (-14 million Euro as compared with +12 million Euro).

One team did win their league twice and reach the UCL finals in those five years though... the other finished between 5th and 8th in their domestic league.

I think looking at the managerial candidates, there's no way we could appoint another British manager, there's just no-one out there with the necessary experience, and after the Moyes debacle, I don't think the Glazers would be happy taking another gamble on inexperience, especially not with their baby losing close to 25% of it's net worth on the stockmarket since Moyes appointment.
 
moyes was playing incredible football with everton at times as well though, i'll never forget the 2-1 vs southampton, it was the best performance of any team that season.

Don't get carried away. I do agree that there is a lot of revisionism regarding Moyes' style of play especially last year, but he wasn't Guardiola mk. 2.
 
Incredible football? Please. Everton had some good moments of play but even at our most boring style under Fergie these last few seasons, we were miles better to watch then Everton under Moyes ever was. Martinez with half a year at Everton has them playing more attractive football consistently then Moyes managed to do in a decade there, while keeping similar results. The main reason I and many other posters were so against Moyes in the first place wasn't because of his lack of trophies (although that played a part). It was because for the most part, he always had his teams play long ball football, and favoured athletes and keeping defensive shape in every single game, rather then encouraging free flowing attacking football. Moyes' ideal way of attacking is clearly with loads of crosses into the box from all angles, as he has us playing on occasion and he had Everton playing. It's a shit percentage style football. Sure you can get some good performances here or there if you have a good crossing day, but it's just glorified hoofing up to a target man like how they used Fellaini.

i think that statement is laughable. we got pitifully outplayed by the same southhampton that was played off the park by everton. they had not just some good moments, in that game they were magnificient. maybe time has jaded my memory, but why hasn't it done so to my memories of all the horrid football WE played that same season? i'm trying to find a link to a full recording of that game so that you'd watch it and eat your words, because i'm convinced you watched none of everton in that period to say something like that. hell, i'm not convinced you watched of us that season having mustered such a statement. everton were free flowing, osman and mirallas weaved through the middle, fellaini was adept at 1-2's and attacking space, the fullbacks were outstanding, and play moved all across the pitch. it was fantastic. After watching that game i was overwhelmingly impressed by everton's football.

here's highlights of the game:

i'll find a link to the full game and send it to you if i can find it.
 
Don't get carried away. I do agree that there is a lot of revisionism regarding Moyes' style of play especially last year, but he wasn't Guardiola mk. 2.
nah, and i wouldn't go nearly that far either (i didn't go that far in fact, only to say that one particular match was the most impressive of the season), but i do think that like you say, most people here are changing memories of what actually happened with everton under moyes. or possibly, making them up.
 
Pochettino would be a brilliant choice tbh. He's a winner - within his first 8 games incharge he's already beaten City and Liverpool 3-1 each, has an excellent education subscribing to the Bielsa school of football minus the madness, is tactically astute, plays an exciting high pressing system with freaking Southampton, can speak English contrary to rumours, brings though more English players than most British managers themselves, is engaging and makes entertaining comments - called Soton players "friendly, young and handsome", is only 41 and has a certain X factor. Apparently Jose even recommended him for the Real Madrid managerial post, that's how highly thought of he is. Wouldn't surprise me if he moved to a high profile club sooner rather than later. Only thing he currently lacks is experience at the highest level and having been through Davey once I'd rather prefer a veteran manager. However he'd be ideally suitable on all other accounts.
 
Incredible football? Please. Everton had some good moments of play but even at our most boring style under Fergie these last few seasons, we were miles better to watch then Everton under Moyes ever was. Martinez with half a year at Everton has them playing more attractive football consistently then Moyes managed to do in a decade there, while keeping similar results. The main reason I and many other posters were so against Moyes in the first place wasn't because of his lack of trophies (although that played a part). It was because for the most part, he always had his teams play long ball football, and favoured athletes and keeping defensive shape in every single game, rather then encouraging free flowing attacking football. Moyes' ideal way of attacking is clearly with loads of crosses into the box from all angles, as he has us playing on occasion and he had Everton playing. It's a shit percentage style football. Sure you can get some good performances here or there if you have a good crossing day, but it's just glorified hoofing up to a target man like how they used Fellaini.

You didnt even watch Everton in the last few seasons did you?. You keep repeating this stuff but the more you say it the more you exagerate and the more it becomes clear you never watched Everton.
 
I thought one of the reasons we brought in Moyes was his ability to perform on a budget. But then when you look at the wage bills of him and some of the other managers that are on people's lists, you really do wonder who got bang for their buck...

Wage bills (as of Jan 2013)
Everton FC: 74 million Euro
Borussia Dortmund: 79 million Euro
Atletico Madrid: 67 million Euro

To be fair to Moyes, a big part of the question is how big you are in your own country. Atletico and Dortmund do battle with bigger, financially stronger clubs in Spain and Dortmund, but Everton have been up against a bigger amount of those clubs in England.
 
To be fair to Moyes, a big part of the question is how big you are in your own country. Atletico and Dortmund do battle with bigger, financially stronger clubs in Spain and Dortmund, but Everton have been up against a bigger amount of those clubs in England.

It actually goes even further than that. The better structures of youth development and the less overheated national transfer markets make talents way more affordable in those countries.

For example, Ilkay Gündogan transfered after one really good season from Nürnberg to Dortmund for 6 Mil. € in 2011, which was not an unusual price. James Millner, a player on the same position and with a similar vita back then went for around three times as much to City. This is the downside of the huge influx of money to the EPL due to the TV contracts and investors coupled with the rarity of top level homegrown talent.

It is safe to say, that a squad like Dortmund could have never been built with the same amount of money in England and would also be way more costly in wages. Somewhere between 120 to 140 Mil. € if I would have to guess.
 
You didnt even watch Everton in the last few seasons did you?. You keep repeating this stuff but the more you say it the more you exagerate and the more it becomes clear you never watched Everton.
I watched a decent amount of their games last season. Yes they were decent but they were hardly something we as United looked at with jealousy, wishing we could play like them. That's what I'm getting at. And are you disagreeing with my point about Martinez having them playing better football right from the start of his reign at Everton compared to what Moyes did? Plenty of Everton fans would agree with me there. They were decent to watch at times, but hell, is that enough to make it at United? It's not like they were a really technical side based on quick, fluid, passing play. It was more overloading the opposition with overlapping fullbacks, and then quick transitions up the pitch, still a lot of long balls, and loads of crosses into the box. Everton was just a better crossing team then we are because they had the players to suit that style.
 
I watched a decent amount of their games last season. Yes they were decent but they were hardly something we as United looked at with jealousy, wishing we could play like them. That's what I'm getting at. And are you disagreeing with my point about Martinez having them playing better football right from the start of his reign at Everton compared to what Moyes did? Plenty of Everton fans would agree with me there. They were decent to watch at times, but hell, is that enough to make it at United? It's not like they were a really technical side based on quick, fluid, passing play. It was more overloading the opposition with overlapping fullbacks, and then quick transitions up the pitch, still a lot of long balls, and loads of crosses into the box. Everton was just a better crossing team then we are because they had the players to suit that style.
And that's how he's going to make us play.