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2022-23 Performances


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Telsim

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I remember when we were dismissing Arnautovic. Is this the kind of striker we want? Little did everybody know we'd have Wout Weghorst playing as a 9 a couple months later. :lol:

I didn't expect him to pull up trees at any rate, but dearie me I didn't expect it to be this bad. Certainly, there must be someone else who can play in that position? I don't know, maybe Bruno, or perhaps Elanga, or someone from the academy? Surely, someone can do better than this?
 

stevoc

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Not saying hes a great player but he does have his prons. The fact is if your midfield gets dominated by the likes of Sean Longstaff then your CF really isnt a prime issue
Perhaps but yesterday wasn't an isolated incident he's been an issue for months whether we dominate midfield or not.
 

Woziak

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He’s right up there with the worst I’ve seen in a Utd shirt. Abysmal player.
His stats are truly woeful, 21 Games 2 goals 3 assists overall but in the PL it’s even worse, it’s actually shocking it’s something like 9 games 0 goals 1 assist with him playing as our number 9 as a team in the PL in those 9 games we’ve conceded 16 goals and scored 12 goals - Played 9 W3 D3 L3 - PTs 12 GS 12 GC 16 if we finished our last 12 with the same P12 W4 D4 L4 - PTs 16 and 66 Points that’s 6th or 7th place so yes we need to get him out the team and ETH needs to learn very quickly you can’t carry anyone in the PL.

Weghorst does not score in PL, does not assist either slows the game down and as a supposedly Defensive CFW, the team concede the same or more goals with him in the side. Truly awful player at the highest level and should be nowhere near the first team of Burnley let alone Man United!
 

MadMike

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Not saying hes a great player but he does have his prons. The fact is if your midfield gets dominated by the likes of Sean Longstaff then your CF really isnt a prime issue
He has 1 pro, work-rate, and that is not remotely enough at this level.

There are plenty of away games when your midfield will get dominated and you still need your striker to be a useful outlet. Either for over the top balls to chase behind the defence or for long balls to bring down. Strikers aren’t only useful when you dominate games.

But If you striker is not fast, cannot win a header (despite being 7’ tall), cannot trap a ball, cannot shoot… then he’s useless. Or as he’s also known as, a Weghorst.
 

humdinger

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People need to relax, we won’t be signing him permanently. Ten Hag isn’t an idiot and neither is Murtough.

He’s terrible. When he joined us I genuinely thought he’d just be used to give Rashford a rest in certain games, not be the main man tasked with leading the line.

It shows just how little Ten Hag thinks of our bench attackers like Sancho that he prefers Weghorst over him. We may have no strikers on the bench but we have enough (expensive) attacking talent to try something with false nines or playing Rashford centrally. It might just be down to the fact we have so many games and no time to train that we have no flexibility on this.
 

MadDogg

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I think some are being a bit harsh. He has had some fairly good games, although obviously he's also had some very shit games. His last few matches definitely fit in the latter category, but hopefully he'll have more decent matches again going forward.
 

Gordon Godot

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I think some are being a bit harsh. He has had some fairly good games, although obviously he's also had some very shit games. His last few matches definitely fit in the latter category, but hopefully he'll have more decent matches again going forward.
He started off just about OK. He has also been sussed out by other teams who know he cant head, shoot or run.... its so easy to mark him and they can ignore him in many areas of the pitch as he is not a threat. He is useless. If he starts another game I will be disappointed
 

wolvored

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I think some are being a bit harsh. He has had some fairly good games, although obviously he's also had some very shit games. His last few matches definitely fit in the latter category, but hopefully he'll have more decent matches again going forward.
What decent games? That one where he scored that worldly, or the hattrick? He hasnt had one decent game. Hes a striker first and foremost that doesnt score goals. Pressing and running is nothing without an end product. Commentator said yesterday at 65 mins stage he had touched the ball 7 times.
 

Chief123

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I think some are being a bit harsh. He has had some fairly good games, although obviously he's also had some very shit games. His last few matches definitely fit in the latter category, but hopefully he'll have more decent matches again going forward.
He’s definitely being treated harshly. He’s clearly limited in ability. However, he’s also been a contributor and a major help in us winning the majority of our last 26 games where he’s started virtually all of them. His good work will rarely get noticed tbh. However, it’s clear we can’t afford to have a striker who will not score at all either. I’d give him more credit than he’s getting but despite his efforts it’s not quite enough for what we need.
 

padzilla

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It's getting to the stage where you wonder if ETH has a blind spot with Weghorst, we've won 3 out of 9 league games since he joined. Our form is in the toilet and it's clear we need to change something in attack with Weghorst being an obvious issue.

Whatever your views of Weghorst, it's clear we can't afford to keep starting him when the results and performances are on a par with Rangnick's time in charge.
 

fergiewherearethou

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I think some are being a bit harsh. He has had some fairly good games, although obviously he's also had some very shit games. His last few matches definitely fit in the latter category, but hopefully he'll have more decent matches again going forward.
He had maybe 3-4 decent games from a total of 19!, which is terrible. Not 1 game in which you can say he was really good, not even 1.
Hopefully, he does not start any games for us, I wouldn't be against bringing him on to rest someone or to have an extra body upfront if we need a goal, because that's what he is, just a body on the pitch.
I also don't expect Martial to stay fit until the end of the season so, if possible, I would choose to play without a ST. Bring Rashford centrally more often, play with a false 9, Bruno or I don't know anything but this guy.
 

MadDogg

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What decent games? That one where he scored that worldly, or the hattrick? He hasnt had one decent game. Hes a striker first and foremost that doesnt score goals. Pressing and running is nothing without an end product. Commentator said yesterday at 65 mins stage he had touched the ball 7 times.
He was decent for his first 4 games. Then he was shit for 4 or 5. Then his next 5 or 6 matches were up and down with some decent and some poor. Now he's having another shit period. So in his 19 games I'd say he's had about 7 where he's been decent, which obviously isn't good enough but I also don't think he's been absolutely terrible the entire time like some are making out.

Every player's job is ultimately to help the team as a whole play better. Wout was doing that in the games I'd say he was decent in. His movement was creating space for others, he was doing well with his hold-up play and making the right passes, he was causing the opposition to make mistakes and lose the ball with his pressing and defensive work. He wasn't a goal threat even in those games so I wouldn't go as far as saying he was playing really well, but he was making a positive impact on the team as a whole. If he'd been at that level the entire time I'd be fairly happy with him despite the lack of actual goal threat.
 

Siorac

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10 touches in 61 minutes yesterday.

Martial had 16 in 30. And Martial isn't exactly a hard-working movement champion. Yes, the game was a bit different by that time as Newcastle were ahead and let us have more of the ball and territory but still, the difference is staggering.
 

Red Shorts

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I remember when we were dismissing Arnautovic. Is this the kind of striker we want? Little did everybody know we'd have Wout Weghorst playing as a 9 a couple months later. :lol:

I didn't expect him to pull up trees at any rate, but dearie me I didn't expect it to be this bad. Certainly, there must be someone else who can play in that position? I don't know, maybe Bruno, or perhaps Elanga, or someone from the academy? Surely, someone can do better than this?
He had a good start to the season before injury problems. If he had stayed fit for the season, he would have been a far better loan option, were Bologna to agree.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Because it’s better to be a nice guy who works hard and be shit than be a tosser who’s lazy and still shit.
I disagree. If he was a lazy tosser, nobody would be praising his attitude and arguing we should sign him permanently. It would be blatantly obvious to everyone that he's out of his depth here and shouldn't remain past the summer.
 

Greck

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I lost the post I was trying to quote. Basically something about Rashford not being able to play CF, yeah and Rashford doesn't play RW and neither does Bruno. Let's not confuse preference with ability. ETH prefers a big back to goal striker that will focus on link up. It's not that he's better than Rash as a CF. We literally played him up there half the time ROnaldo was on the bench. Our season didn't start the day we signed Weghorst. The issue now is I'm no longer sure Weghorst is worth the change in play with anyone else.
 
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Hughes35

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His link up play is really great and if you seriously think about it yeah there were less talented players
His link up is great? We must be watching a different player. Didn't he touch the ball like 8 times or something yesterday?..... How can you link up well if you never get involved.

Which players were less talented then?
 

Rozay

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Yeah considering all the amazing strikers we have sitting on the bench waiting for their chance it's really strange Ten Hag has persisted with Weghorst.
People need to stop with this. The problem is not in playing Weghorst, the problem was in signing him. If you have zero strikers in the squad, then you deliberately bring in Wout Weghorst only to then argue every week that you have no choice but to start Wout Weghorst because the only striker you have is Wout Weghorst - it’s a fecking laughable argument. The point is, he shouldn’t be here to be an option in the first place, just as I shouldn’t.

There is zero chance that Weghorst was either the ONLY striker available in January nor was he the best. Even considering any budgetary constraints. This is BS being brought up to exonerate a manager we all love from a fecking stupid decision he made. Weghorst wasn’t even ‘available’ in January. We had to go and get him out of an existing loan at Besiktas who were very unhappy to lose him. We had to negotiate a fee with them to agree, and we effectively signed Weghorst from them for €3m for 6 months, which is not the zero it is being made out to be on ETH’a defence.

It is clear that we did not have the means to get our main first-choice striker in January, but to me, it is also clear that from that point - Ten Hag decided that he WANTED to sign Wout Weghorst and felt he was the best option available to him. Didn’t Danny Ings go on loan from Villa to West Ham for example? I can’t imagine they paid more than €3m to get him for 6 months, and he’s three times the striker Weghorst is. Chris Wood is far better than Weghorst and he went on loan to Forest. Memphis went to Atleti for free. Thuram, who is out of contract in 3 months surely wouldn’t have cost much more. Moussa Dembele who is in a similar situation and has been loaned previously to Atleti would be similar.

If you compare the caliber of player that Marcel Sabitzer is to Wout Weghorst - that gives a clear indication that the loan market presents far better opportunities and quality than WW.

I’ve seen RVP knocking about Old Trafford recently, and I’m convinced that even at 39, getting him to get his boots back on for a few months would have been a better option than Wout, provided he has kept himself in reasonable shape.
 

SAFMUTD

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An attacker can help big time in terms of ball retention and game involment. Touching the ball 15times is ridiculously low and even less than Martial in more time on the pitch.
His main role as a striker is to score but he has also other responsibilities since he ain't doing that.
At the moment, there isn't a single aspect of football he's useful at. Going without a designated 9 (Moving Rashford there) was always the way to go without Martial
Yes and no, Weghorst is really poor but moving Rashford to the 9 position means taking him of the left wing which is where he's scoring.

Moving him will definitely affect him, so it's a case about the lesser evil. At this point if Martial is not available I definitely would as playing Weghorst is like playing with 10, but if you had ask me a couple of weeks ago I would have said Weghorst starting was the right call.
 

Cassidy

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People need to stop with this. The problem is not in playing Weghorst, the problem was in signing him. If you have zero strikers in the squad, then you deliberately bring in Wout Weghorst only to then argue every week that you have no choice but to start Wout Weghorst because the only striker you have is Wout Weghorst - it’s a fecking laughable argument.

There is zero chance that Weghorst was either the ONLY striker available in January nor was he the best. Even considering any budgetary constraints. This is BS being brought up to exonerate a manager we all love from a fecking stupid decision he made. Weghorst wasn’t even ‘available’ in January. We had to go and get him out of an existing loan at Besiktas who were very unhappy to lose him. We had to negotiate a fee with them to agree, and we effectively signed Weghorst from them for €3m for 6 months, which is not the zero it is being made out to be on ETH’a defence.

It is clear that we did not have the means to get our main first-choice striker in January, but to me, it is also clear that from that point - Ten Hag decided that he WANTED to sign Wout Weghorst and felt he was the best option available to him. Didn’t Danny Ings go on loan from Villa to West Ham for example? I can’t imagine they paid more than €3m to get him for 6 months, and he’s three times the striker Weghorst is. Chris Wood is far better than Weghorst and he went on loan to Forest. Memphis went to Atleti for free. Thuram, who is out of contract in 3 months surely wouldn’t have cost much more. Moussa Dembele who is in a similar situation and has been loaned previously to Atleti would be similar.

If you compare the caliber of player that Marcel Sabitzer is to Wout Weghorst - that gives a clear indication that the loan market presents far better opportunities and quality than WW.
The issue here was clearly the club and its handling of the window rather than ETH
 

SAFMUTD

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One of the multiple reasons we barely create anything is our attacking transition is being killed off with poor hold up play and zero pace. Everytime the ball goes to Weghorst's or McT's feet, we lost it. And during the off ball movement, Weghorst is very slow so when we want to make through ball attempt, Weghorst couldn't make it.

On contrary, if we have Kane who is good with his feet and can hold the ball, it will improve us in attacking transition to create chances. The same with Osimhen, if we have his pace, it will improve us in attacking transition to create chances by making through ball to him. The limitation of Weghorst also played big part.
I completely agree, Weghorst is almost useless as you correctly said he can't even hold the ball properly he can't even win aerial duels ffs being almost 2 meter high.

I do agree our attack would very much improve will almost any decent striker nevermind world-class strikers.

My previous comment was about the lack of chances generated, of course in theory we would have played better I thought you were referring about wasted chances.
 

Rozay

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The issue here was clearly the club and its handling of the window rather than ETH
No it isn’t, the issue here is ETH deciding to get Weghorst on loan instead of someone remotely resembling a footballer.

The club handled the window in a way many clubs would mid-season. Money isn’t infinite, the manager needs to deal with it if there isn’t always 120m around to sign a striker because he needs one. But he needs to deal with it better than opting to sign Wout Weghorst on loan. How on earth can Ten Hag be excused from signing Weghorst if he decided to sign him? Simply because the club wouldn’t buy him Harry Kane?
 

ti vu

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Yes and no, Weghorst is really poor but moving Rashford to the 9 position means taking him of the left wing which is where he's scoring.

Moving him will definitely affect him, so it's a case about the lesser evil. At this point if Martial is not available I definitely would as playing Weghorst is like playing with 10, but if you had ask me a couple of weeks ago I would have said Weghorst starting was the right call.
This is a myth. Anyone can easily recall Rashford scoring against City, Crystal Palace at home, Leeds both games, Barcelona away, Leicester... playing in no 9 position. Weghorst was shoehorn into no 10, or subbed off (unavailable for City game).

Rashford has preference to play off a proper CF. MBappe said the same. Doesn't mean these type of wide forward wouldn't score playing the CF role when the CF in the team hindering their game need to be hauled off the pitch.
 

SAFMUTD

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As other poster already took on the Osimhen and Kane points, I shorten my post with Benzema point here.

You must be kidding when you brought Benzema into the conversation. Did you miss Martial cameo for this game? Martial ability to receive the ball under pressure and turn alone get our attack tick and create some opening. This is not even the best Martial can offer and his cameo is distinctly much better than Weghorst.

Benzema is even more well rounded forward. Even the best version of Martial is shy in comparison to Benzema when it comes to running in behind, poaching goal in the box, making decoy run, defensive work, general playmaking, general aerial ability, variety of finishing...

Playing well and being unlucky may not change the result for game like this; but outright believe that better forward can't inject quality and improve team performance more than Weghorst is baffling. It's truly bizarre some extend people go to defend Weghorst.
I'm not defending him by any means, he's clearly below level not only for us but for the league as well. It's clear he's really poor in most of the important aspects of the game.

I agree in theory a world-class striker with hold up skills would have help us yesterday, but the main issue was the midfield. Unless you want that striker going down midfield every single time to receive the ball and start playing there as if the midfield didn't exist.

We desperately need a striker but yesterday, and Fulham game, showed that without Casemiro and Eriksen our midfield is garbage. Low table quality as soon as high pressure is implemented it cuts our passing completely while we have Licha and Shaw who are really comfortable on the ball it's useless when having a below par midfield. Licha goes out playing and he has to go past the first line of pressure to try to find the attackers with a long pass because McTominay is marking himself.

See some plays and its McTominay clear as day McTominay is afraid he makes himself unavailable by actively going in opposition areas. See the first goal, Varane has the ball he's under pressure Dalot is not available and he can't pass to McTominay because he's marked as well, a freaking midfielder market ffs just move onto space. He's not even moving trying to make himself available he's jogging but in the same direction.

Neither Martial nor Benzema will go as deep to receive the ball, neither should they.

We need quality in midfield, it's the most important part of the team. Se all successful teams and the depth in quality they have. The fact that we have to play freaking McTominay after all these years shows how poor the squad still is.
 

SAFMUTD

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People need to stop with this. The problem is not in playing Weghorst, the problem was in signing him. If you have zero strikers in the squad, then you deliberately bring in Wout Weghorst only to then argue every week that you have no choice but to start Wout Weghorst because the only striker you have is Wout Weghorst - it’s a fecking laughable argument. The point is, he shouldn’t be here to be an option in the first place, just as I shouldn’t.

There is zero chance that Weghorst was either the ONLY striker available in January nor was he the best. Even considering any budgetary constraints. This is BS being brought up to exonerate a manager we all love from a fecking stupid decision he made. Weghorst wasn’t even ‘available’ in January. We had to go and get him out of an existing loan at Besiktas who were very unhappy to lose him. We had to negotiate a fee with them to agree, and we effectively signed Weghorst from them for €3m for 6 months, which is not the zero it is being made out to be on ETH’a defence.

It is clear that we did not have the means to get our main first-choice striker in January, but to me, it is also clear that from that point - Ten Hag decided that he WANTED to sign Wout Weghorst and felt he was the best option available to him. Didn’t Danny Ings go on loan from Villa to West Ham for example? I can’t imagine they paid more than €3m to get him for 6 months, and he’s three times the striker Weghorst is. Chris Wood is far better than Weghorst and he went on loan to Forest. Memphis went to Atleti for free. Thuram, who is out of contract in 3 months surely wouldn’t have cost much more. Moussa Dembele who is in a similar situation and has been loaned previously to Atleti would be similar.

If you compare the caliber of player that Marcel Sabitzer is to Wout Weghorst - that gives a clear indication that the loan market presents far better opportunities and quality than WW.

I’ve seen RVP knocking about Old Trafford recently, and I’m convinced that even at 39, getting him to get his boots back on for a few months would have been a better option than Wout, provided he has kept himself in reasonable shape.
I absolutely agree in retrospective there were way better options than Weghorst. I don't think any of us expected him to be this poor, he had a good scoring record in turkey and came from a great game against Argentina in the world cup we all thought he was a target man, the big strong striker who you aim crosses to and throw long balls and hope for the best. Turns out he's not he's as weak as he's tall he can't win aerials for feck and he's God damn awful at converting chances.

I don't think ten Hag knew what he was getting, he never worked with him before and while he was always a stop gap I think he expected much better. As weeks go by ten Hag, and all of us, realize that Weghorst is useless as a striker and tries to accommodate him playing him as a midfielder for example. An awful experiment that has shown it doesn't work by any means. By this point I think he should've been benched by I don't know why ten Hag persist with him, I would rather play Elanga as 9 at this point not even joking.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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Rashford is miles better up top. Even Elanga offers more.

We don't need Weghorst at all. Him being a striker is irrelevant.
Yeah said it weeks ago. Weghorst is basically playing a DM up top. You’d get the same performances there with an average defensive midfielder playing striker than you do with Weghorst.

Also I think Elanga isn’t good at all, but I have 0 doubts he’d offer more playing up top. Bare minimum you get supreme pace in the middle and probably a better finisher. feck me Elanga is probably better in the air too
 

ti vu

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I'm not defending him by any means, he's clearly below level not only for us but for the league as well. It's clear he's really poor in most of the important aspects of the game.

I agree in theory a world-class striker with hold up skills would have help us yesterday, but the main issue was the midfield. Unless you want that striker going down midfield every single time to receive the ball and start playing there as if the midfield didn't exist.

We desperately need a striker but yesterday, and Fulham game, showed that without Casemiro and Eriksen our midfield is garbage. Low table quality as soon as high pressure is implemented it cuts our passing completely while we have Licha and Shaw who are really comfortable on the ball it's useless when having a below par midfield. Licha goes out playing and he has to go past the first line of pressure to try to find the attackers with a long pass because McTominay is marking himself.

See some plays and its McTominay clear as day McTominay is afraid he makes himself unavailable by actively going in opposition areas. See the first goal, Varane has the ball he's under pressure Dalot is not available and he can't pass to McTominay because he's marked as well, a freaking midfielder market ffs just move onto space. He's not even moving trying to make himself available he's jogging but in the same direction.

Neither Martial nor Benzema will go as deep to receive the ball, neither should they.

We need quality in midfield, it's the most important part of the team. Se all successful teams and the depth in quality they have. The fact that we have to play freaking McTominay after all these years shows how poor the squad still is.
You seem very local about McTominay. I am not disagree. I think McTominay is garbage and need selling. The issue here is the double standard

McTominay's performance in first half as no 10 is about the same as Weghorst as no 10 in many occasion. McTominay winning the ball lead to Weghorst wild shot. Some foul to break up play. Some link up, hold up play. McTominay even had some ball carrying action. Ultimately still shite first half. Moved to no 6, in second half, improved a bit in involvement but still garbage regardless.

Even if we agree that the game lost by the midfield battle, there is no hiding from the fact in previous seasons, without Casemiro, Eriksen, playing with the McFred midfield, the individual brilliance of our forwards can see us through these type of game. When Casimero and Eriksen were available, Weghorst was not exactly several level better. That Crystal Palace game at home where we played well, Weghorst was subbed off, so Rashford moved to no 9 position and scored the second goal.

There is no excuse for Weghorst who add a different kind of burden onto the team. He doesn't help as CF either with his pressing, pressure relieving with his movement, nor just being a goal threat. Martial cameo shows that just mere natural ability make a big difference. No need for all the complex football philosophy about team shape, off ball movement, pressing....

No top teams if they can can afford better back up midfielders than the like of McTominay would have someone like Weghorst as back up forward, let alone starting this many games. In another word, the standard needs to be consistently set across the board. Can't just point finger at a shite player in one position, when you excuse another one in different position.

Benzema, Martial type of forward dropped deep to receive the ball is not that uncommon. Someone like Kane since Mourinho time at Spurs made his name for being dual purpose with his playmaking role. Even if you don't like your CF to drop deep, there is no stopping you to play without a CF like Pep often seen doing in previous seasons. False 9, and a bunch of midfielders to win that midfield battle. We had Fred in the bench yesterday to play for a draw. No excuse about not having enough number for such tactic.
 
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BeltUp

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He's not even good enough in the build-up play anymore. I really hope we don't keep him beyond the loan period.
 

Big Ben Foster

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People need to stop with this. The problem is not in playing Weghorst, the problem was in signing him. If you have zero strikers in the squad, then you deliberately bring in Wout Weghorst only to then argue every week that you have no choice but to start Wout Weghorst because the only striker you have is Wout Weghorst - it’s a fecking laughable argument. The point is, he shouldn’t be here to be an option in the first place, just as I shouldn’t.

There is zero chance that Weghorst was either the ONLY striker available in January nor was he the best. Even considering any budgetary constraints. This is BS being brought up to exonerate a manager we all love from a fecking stupid decision he made. Weghorst wasn’t even ‘available’ in January. We had to go and get him out of an existing loan at Besiktas who were very unhappy to lose him. We had to negotiate a fee with them to agree, and we effectively signed Weghorst from them for €3m for 6 months, which is not the zero it is being made out to be on ETH’a defence.

It is clear that we did not have the means to get our main first-choice striker in January, but to me, it is also clear that from that point - Ten Hag decided that he WANTED to sign Wout Weghorst and felt he was the best option available to him. Didn’t Danny Ings go on loan from Villa to West Ham for example? I can’t imagine they paid more than €3m to get him for 6 months, and he’s three times the striker Weghorst is. Chris Wood is far better than Weghorst and he went on loan to Forest. Memphis went to Atleti for free. Thuram, who is out of contract in 3 months surely wouldn’t have cost much more. Moussa Dembele who is in a similar situation and has been loaned previously to Atleti would be similar.

If you compare the caliber of player that Marcel Sabitzer is to Wout Weghorst - that gives a clear indication that the loan market presents far better opportunities and quality than WW.

I’ve seen RVP knocking about Old Trafford recently, and I’m convinced that even at 39, getting him to get his boots back on for a few months would have been a better option than Wout, provided he has kept himself in reasonable shape.
Finally some common sense in this thread. Great post
 

Rozay

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I absolutely agree in retrospective there were way better options than Weghorst. I don't think any of us expected him to be this poor, he had a good scoring record in turkey and came from a great game against Argentina in the world cup we all thought he was a target man, the big strong striker who you aim crosses to and throw long balls and hope for the best. Turns out he's not he's as weak as he's tall he can't win aerials for feck and he's God damn awful at converting chances.

I don't think ten Hag knew what he was getting, he never worked with him before and while he was always a stop gap I think he expected much better. As weeks go by ten Hag, and all of us, realize that Weghorst is useless as a striker and tries to accommodate him playing him as a midfielder for example. An awful experiment that has shown it doesn't work by any means. By this point I think he should've been benched by I don't know why ten Hag persist with him, I would rather play Elanga as 9 at this point not even joking.
I think that’s likely how it went, but I still think than Ten Hag then needs to own the repercussions of his misjudgement, which (probably for obvious reasons) many have tried to relieve him of.

It may be somewhat acceptable for you and I to simply say ‘we thought Weghorst was better’, however, I don’t think that is good enough for Ten Hag or his team of fellow Dutch football experts. They should have more insight than a World Cup cameo against Argentina.

Subsequently playing him every single game, well that’s another matter. I imagine that those who seek to remove Ten Hag from any blame for anything because we all like him will say that he has ‘no choice’ - but for me, it all leads back to him. I see it as both his choice to sign him which has les to his choice (as the man who picks the team) to play him. I can’t imagine how those two decisions are to be blamed on everyone except Ten Hag.
 

Cassidy

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No it isn’t, the issue here is ETH deciding to get Weghorst on loan instead of someone remotely resembling a footballer.

The club handled the window in a way many clubs would mid-season. Money isn’t infinite, the manager needs to deal with it if there isn’t always 120m around to sign a striker because he needs one. But he needs to deal with it better than opting to sign Wout Weghorst on loan. How on earth can Ten Hag be excused from signing Weghorst if he decided to sign him? Simply because the club wouldn’t buy him Harry Kane?
No, he isn't you have made that up.
Clearly the target was Felix and the club didn't want to pay the money
Options were also clearly limited, I mean you mentioned Memphis on a free as if that's equivalent in cost to a 6 month loan
 

SAFMUTD

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You seem very local about McTominay. I am not disagree. I think McTominay is garbage and need selling. The issue here is the double standard

McTominay's performance in first half as no 10 is about the same as Weghorst as no 10 in many occasion. McTominay winning the ball lead to Weghorst wild shot. Some foul to break up play. Some link up, hold up play. McTominay even had some ball carrying action. Ultimately still shite first half. Moved to no 6, in second half, improved a bit in involvement but still garbage regardless.

Even if we agree that the game lost by the midfield battle, there is no hiding from the fact in previous seasons, without Casemiro, Eriksen, playing with the McFred midfield, the individual brilliance of our forwards can see us through these type of game. There is no excuse for Weghorst who add a different kind of burden onto the team. He doesn't help as CF either with his pressing, pressure relieving with his movement, nor just being a goal threat. Martial cameo shows that just mere natural ability make a big difference. No need for all the complex football philosophy about team shape, off ball movement, pressing....

No top teams if they can can afford better back up midfielders than the like of McTominay would have someone like Weghorst as back up forward, let alone starting this many games. In another word, the standard needs to be consistently set across the board. Can't just point finger at a shite player in one position, when you excuse another one in different position.

Benzema, Martial type of forward dropped deep to receive the ball is not that uncommon. Someone like Kane since Mourinho time at Spurs made his name for being dual purpose with his playmaking role. Even if you don't like your CF to drop deep, there is no stopping you to play without a CF like Pep often seen doing in previous seasons. False 9, and a bunch of midfielders to win that midfield battle. We had Fred in the bench yesterday to play for a draw. No excuse about not having enough number for such tactic.
I don't have double standard they're both shit, difference being Weghorst is only on loan and will leave in the summer. McTominay has been here for years stinking up the place. Before this season with Casemiro and Eriksen arrival he was a starter ffs.

We clearly got it wrong with Weghorst theres no way to sugarcoat that. He's God damn awful and doesn't have what it takes to make it here, here being the premier league not ManUtd, and no amount of effort and passion can change that at this point of his career. He lacks so many basic attributes Im actually surprised how the scouting department gave the green light for him.

I think ten Hag was fixated on him somehow and the scouting department gave it a go. Or maybe his lack of skills weren't as evident in turkey. I don't know it really amazes me how someone this poor did actually end up playing with us.
 

RedDevil@84

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At least the media voices on this is growing louder.
While the quality of Wout is a concern, the bigger concern is us playing Bruno here and there to accomodate this low quality.
 

SAFMUTD

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I think that’s likely how it went, but I still think than Ten Hag then needs to own the repercussions of his misjudgement, which (probably for obvious reasons) many have tried to relieve him of.

It may be somewhat acceptable for you and I to simply say ‘we thought Weghorst was better’, however, I don’t think that is good enough for Ten Hag or his team of fellow Dutch football experts. They should have more insight than a World Cup cameo against Argentina.

Subsequently playing him every single game, well that’s another matter. I imagine that those who seek to remove Ten Hag from any blame for anything because we all like him will say that he has ‘no choice’ - but for me, it all leads back to him. I see it as both his choice to sign him which has les to his choice (as the man who picks the team) to play him. I can’t imagine how those two decisions are to be blamed on everyone except Ten Hag.
I agree he got it wrong signing him but with the budget we had in the winter window we were never getting anything superb. It was all about stop gaps, we got it awful but things like that happen specially when having tight budgets.

Now regarding playing him I think it's been intensified by the recent lack of results. When we were winning, while there were comments about it, the pressure was way less.

I think it's easier for a manager to persist with the formation that have given you results when in a bad patch. But its now reached a point where it's obvious playing Weghorst is crippling our performances and he needs to be changed.

I agree that's on ten Hag, only he decides who's playing so he needs to be hold accountable for it. I don't think Weghorst will start midweek for what it's worth though.
 
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