Victor Lindelof of the current bunch and many more in the past.
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- 2
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No I haven’t. There’s no more speculating in what I’m saying than yours, which somehow has concluded that the manager had nothing to do with the choice to sign a striker he signed (undoubtedly because he’s been a spectacular failure, otherwise it would be all down to the manager). You’ve conveniently decided that it is ‘clear’ that Felix was the main target when he was just one of several names loosely mentioned with United and Arsenal - but talks never seemed to get to any sort of De Jong levels, perhaps because of cost who knows - but in which case you may as well have said Kane was the target but we couldn’t afford it. So what? If you can’t afford Felix, don’t go and get Wout Weghorst because he is rubbish.
Memphis could have been loaned. I also mentioned Danny Ings, which you omitted, no doubt as a genuine oversight. There’s also the fact that Ten Hag’s options were obviously not limited to three players I mentioned in a post on Redcafe.
We didn’t get Weghorst on January 31st after exhausting efforts to sign someone else. We got him fairly early, and not because he was being given away either - after a week of negotiations. Clearly, he was wanted by someone here, and my guess is it was not Richard Arnold.
I think your latest post has us pretty much in similar view. Just want to add some hair splitting point here, then I sign out of this discussion.
PL is the most competitive league. Even someone as experienced like Varane and Casemiro coming from Real Madrid, a team has been on higher level than us in recent past years, openly said that it's a new experience/challenge for them to play in PL. Relying a journeyman CF from even much weaker league to perform in PL is asking for trouble.
ETH managed McTominay game time reasonably. After Casemiro settled and became regular starter, McTominay didn't start unnecessarily. McTominay can use the excuse of we have no option for his recent gametime. He did even have a decent cameo against Southampton. McTominay didn't cost much as he's on relatively lower tier wage, and he came from youth set up. Yet ETH was seen hesistant in starting McTominay. He's experimenting with Bruno in double pivot before Casemiro sent off forced his hand. Saying that those, there is no excuse for McTominay not being sold.
So there is no excuse for Weghorst being just a loan, and only being here for over 2 months when he keeps starting games when he shouldn't. When you start, there is certain low standard you need to meet. How long/little you're at the club is no excuse. Simple as that. ETH having blind spot for Weghorst is becoming an issue for the team.
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If you truly think Lindelof has less talent than Weghorst, you need to watch another sport.
And I'm no Lindelof fan
The Turkish league must be dreadful if he was scoring regularly
He will.
And he shall continue to play like a fan who won a competition to put on a player's jersey.
Well its really not a Lindelof thread so this discussion would be pointless on this thread. I genuenly dont think hes that bad despite not scoring in the PL and since he is a loan signing people need to chill a bit. He's not gonna be here next season and we need to clinch top 4 with this squad anyway we know how
Really hope, Martial can start the next few games. Wout can come on as a sub and run all he likes.
He is not as bad as a random fan from the stands, yes. But he is clearly a level below everyone else, including LIndelof, who is still a PL player and would walk into many teams like Spurs.
Have defended him but his attacking output has been dreadful and he should have gone across goal with that chance Antony provided for him yesterday. We need Martial back and starting regularly.
I'm not saying he had nothing to do with it, clearly, it was his choice. Clearly, though it is not speculation to determine that funds and options were severely limited.
The club didn't want to spend and the manager didn't want anyone in on loan who would need obligations past the season.
Had he gone for the far post, it would've likely gone for a throw-in.
He's just such a bad forward.
Some stats for you on his time in the PL.
Minutes - 651
Goals - 0
Assists - 1
Shots on Target - 3
Pass completion - 73% Checked a random rubbish player I could think of in Iheanacho and he has 76%.
He's useless, lets not pretend otherwise. One shot on target every 2 and a bit matches is simply not good enough.
That's very not telling statistic, without saying how many shots he has taken in total? One is 3 out of 1000 the othe is 3 out of 10
Those stats are abysmal.
If we had a youth player, say age 18 and he produced those stats, I'm not sure if that 18 yr old would be given more game time, despite him being nowhere near his potential/ceiling.
Wout is basically a player in his 30s, who should be able to hit the ground running.
I'm not sure why ETH keeps picking him. Maybe he likes tall players....not sure.
I'd say there's almost no chance that ETH will have Martial starting multiple games a week any time soon. And probably rightfully so, as it'd increase the chances of further injury significantly. If he can handle starting one game a week for the next month or so, maybe we can increase the workload after that.
Could've been worse, could've gone for a corner...for Newcastle.
Honestly, his finishing is like me on PES using manual shooting.
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So you think 10 shots in 10 games in the EPL, and only 3 on target is a better statistic?That's very not telling statistic, without saying how many shots he has taken in total? One is 3 out of 1000 the othe is 3 out of 10
No matter what way you look at it the stats are ridiculous for a 9.
And I am saying that considering these circumstances, we should have gotten a better footballer than Wout Weghorst, and there is no way that I can be convinced that - even in these circumstances, that WW was the best option, even on loan, even for only 6 months. As I mentioned, Marcel Sabitzer is evidence of the type of player that can be acquired in such circumstances. Ten Hag
As I said, he wasn’t even ‘available’. It is not often that you see a club trying to get a player out of an existing successful loan. The part that I am focusing on is the evidence that there was clearly some decent level of interest in Weghorst. Weghorst wasn’t thrust upon Ten Hag out of circumstance, he was chosen by Ten Hag out of circumstance - which I believe was a poor choice because he isn’t good enough to play in the PL. Ten Hag, circumstances considered, saw value that Weghorst could add here, otherwise he would not have brought him here. He is culpable for that decision.
WW wasn’t free. For €3m I’m sure we could have gotten better for 6 months. It’s not as if the average deal on the loan market is €15m or something. West Ham paid 1m for Jesse Lingard for example. At some point, Ten Hag would have had a list of options for such a deal. I’m almost certain that at least one other name on that list was better than Wout Weghorst, if not all of them.
So, are you suggesting that across the entire continent, the only player who would be willing to join us for 6 months, was Wout?
I would definitely be thinking about using a U23 player instead of Wout, but I doubt ETH will do this. He'll persist with Wout.
I actually have nothing against Wout - it was an experiment that didn't work. These things happen. But ETH needs to acknowledge this and consider other options.
Playing with Wout is like playing the entire match with 10 men. And when Casemiro gets himself sent off, we go down to 9.
No Im saying when you have you have less than a month to evaluate options and a limited budget you are going to have very limited options. Chelsea are another club that struggled and they did not have the budget constraints. Im saying people need to be realistic and quite obviously signing someone you know when you have limited scouting time and options makes sense.
It didn’t work out, your u23 suggestion is ridiculous, none of them are good enough, if they were they would be playing.
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when is the last time we crossed the ball like beckham used to - I dont see it, and that would be the only way Wout might get a few.
Still different, shows how his main job in the game plan isn't taking the shots, but bringing other's to play.
Which still shows, we need a striker who would be capable to score over 20 per season.
The man is actually pretty terrible in the air so I doubt Beckham himself could help him.
Beckham used to assist very good or world class strikers who could finish, not someone who is barely a footballer.
I mean... I do agree with everything you say in the post but playing Weghorst is also a problem.
Yes, he was the only available player who is supposed to be a centre-forward by trade in our squad for the past three months or so. But that does not mean that we can't play anyone else there. There's no law that says that you can't put someone up front if they usually play in a different position.
The argument against doing so is, of course, that they'd be rubbish. But when the bar is Wout fecking Weghorst, we don't have much to lose by trying. The worst case scenario is that Antony or Elanga or Bruno or the tea lady would contribute exactly as much as Weghorst; that is, basically nothing. But at least there is a potential upside: they might be better than Weghorst!
Having said all that, he'll now surely score a hat-trick against Brentford just to make me look stupid.
Had a goal every second game ratio in two seasons in Bundesliga, but "barely a footballer", fecking Caf logic.
I don’t care about what he did there. What I see is that I can’t remember a worse regular player at the club in my time watching United, not even a worse sub apart from maybe some academy kid or cheap signing who never made it.Had a goal every second game ratio in two seasons in Bundesliga, but "barely a footballer", fecking Caf logic.
Rashford also scored from central position. Besides Rashford playing centrally cannot be worse than the shite Weghorst has consistently served up.
It's madness to keep shoehorning the worst player of our squad
We actually don't have a lot of good attacking options, hopefully, Martial will stay fit till the end of the season.
I'm sure if Sancho was pulling his weight, the option to move Rashford centrally would have been taken up a lot more than it has.
You're not wrong but for instance yesterday we did have options, Wout started regardless.
Rashford actually has a better goal per minute ratio from the striker position. Granted, most of them came from in game shuffle/subs change, but the idea that we must play him on the left at all cost isn’t true. And even when Weghorst is starting, it isn’t like he always play on the left anyway, remember Liverpool away?
I agree playing Weghorst is a no go, what I don't agree with is necessarily moving Rashford to the striker position.
Like who? Again I'm not counting Sancho he is not trusted clearly
Just put Bruno there and play him like Tadic. He can be edgy with his passes all he wants in the oppo's half.
And who do you expect to find Bruno without Eriksen in the midfield
Elanga is better in the air so probably not
Falcao had the odd moment where he looked like he might score, at least.
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