[acnumber9]

The biggest problem is they just target him as we saw against Swansea. Thats why we need another top quality CM alongside him, otherwise you just have to take him out and we are struggling. After his show against Galaxy, it wasnt just thst his level dropped, but you could see the opposition teams closing him down immeditely and fouling him constantly. He is our best midfielder and they know it.

I think it has more to do with the quality of teams increasing than any special treatment. LA Galaxy played like a pub team.

 

[hebegebe]

I think it has more to do with the quality of teams increasing than any special treatment. LA Galaxy played like a pub team.

Give him chance, It was his first game in the Premier League, he's a top midfielder. Also, I seem to remember him doing pretty well against us a few years back.

 

[tombombadil]

I'm looking forward to seeing Herrera play with Carrick. I wish both would recover and play soon.

 

[Hellboy]

He's just a poor man's Joe Allen ya know.

 

[itso 7]

@Invictus
You do make a valid point about us lacking a metronomic expansive presence in our potential midfield. In the short term we do have Carrick though, who LVG seems to rate very highly. Perhaps Blind has been brought in to eventually replace him from the first team and take over the metronomic duties.

I know you think Blind doesn't have the expansive aspect to his game that a Busquets/Alonso/Carrick posses. However, he is a metronomic passer who given the time, has the ability and the tools to grow into this role. I personally haven't seen much of him but I believe that he has what it takes (the basics and foundation) to take his game into the next level.

I, too, am hopeful that Blind will be able to play that role whilst offering better protection to the back four. I read an article on his last season at Ajax where De Boer had him playing that Busquerts role, obviously to an inferior standard, but it does show that he can at least run a match. I think if we play the trio of Blind-Herrera-Di Maria, the unit will be stronger than the sum of individual parts in that trio. You can have that trio with a point upwards or at the base, such is the versatility of Herrera in that he can play as part of the double pivot or he can be pushed up, these things can be implemented in a single match.
Another thing is that Herrera is still readjusting to a deeper role, after spending the last couple of seasons playing as the furthest midfielder. It will obviously take a bit of time for him to settle since he is doing this ina new country, amongst new teammates some of whom are absolute gabbage and in a team that is still finding it's feet. That said I think there is a few midfields that can match the Herrera,Di Maria and Blind/Carrick axis because who is brave enough to push up against such a quick midfield ?

 

[Ish]

This. Short, simple post, but a great post.

A midfield 3 of Herrera, Di Maria and Blind supporting a front 3 of Rooney, Falcao and RvP is gonna win trophies.

I really wouldn't play that front 3 together. They'll end up getting in each other's way IMO. Drop 1, or even 2 and add in Mata &/or Januzaj.

 

[sullydnl]

I really wouldn't play that front 3 together. They'll end up getting in each other's way IMO. Drop 1, or even 2 and add in Mata &/or Januzaj.

Agree, Falcao, RvP and Rooney playing together seems like a terrible idea. Falcao is a pure predator, RvP is a #9 and Rooney is far, far, far better at #9 than #10. Playing all three would just be a case of fitting in the players we think are least droppable, not the ones who'd actually work together the best.

Mata should be our first choice #10. If he still doesn't perform then dropping him is fine but actually intending to play an inferior #10 ahead of him is stupid.

 

[Devil may care]

That's an idea but IMO our team will become totally unbalanced. Ideally in a 3 man midfield :
1. is the defensive screen whose main job is to guard the central defenders.
2. is the primary playmaker than can control the tempo of a game while in possession of the ball.
3. is a box-to box midfielder or has good dribbling ability/ mobility to extent plays.

If we look at some of the better traditional 4-3-3/ 4-3-1-2 teams of the past decade :

Gattuso 1, Pirlo 2, Seedorf 3
Busquets 1, Xavi 2, Iniesta 3.
Alonso 1/2 hybrid, Modric 2/3 hybrid, Di Maria 3.
Edmilson 1, Xavi 2, Deco 3.

If we replace the 2 with two #3s there's every chance to lose control of the game, especially vs possession oriented teams because even though Herrera and Strootman are technically gifted - neither those 2 or Blind have the vision or passing range to really impose themselves on the game. The sole example of a successful team using 2 box-to-box player in the central areas Juventus but they have Pirlo as the playmaker.

What we need more than anything else IMO is someone who is like a younger Xabi or Scholes in his older days when he just sat back and picked teams apart. A player like him surrounded by the energy, workrate and mobility of Herrera + Di Maria would be a deadly combination and instantly catapult the current lot into one of the best midfields in Europe. I think someone like Koke or Ruben Neves (very inexperienced) would be better suited to that role than Strootman because both have great vision and the requisite passing range/ defensive work-rate.

I didn't get around to replying last night and I can see you have made several excellent posts since expanding your viewpoint. I can certainly see what you are getting at and we could need 2 CM's to make it work in your method IMO, but there are more ways than one to play a midfield 3 and it does seem that LvG is very keen to bring Strootman in.

Maybe two very rounded CM's in front of Blind rising up as the conductor can work very well as well, we shall know more by Christmas.

 

[Lawman]

Yep. It annoys me when people say we don't address our shortcomings in defense and midfield. Well, we got 2 defenders and 3 midfielders, and all 5 either looks promising, or absolute world class. I swear if our midfield buy is not named Vidal, or defender named Benatia, people are gonna fecking complains

The last 8 top attacking/def midfielders I think who havebeen available/sold have been Mata, Fabregas, Kroos, Matic, Di Maria, Fernando, Blind & Herrera. We have bought 4 of them.

 

[Invictus]

I didn't get around to replying last night and I can see you have made several excellent posts since expanding your viewpoint. I can certainly see what you are getting at and we could need 2 CM's to make it work in your method IMO, but there are more ways than one to play a midfield 3 and it does seem that LvG is very keen to bring Strootman in.

Maybe two very rounded CM's in front of Blind rising up as the conductor can work very well as well, we shall know more by Christmas.

Well yes. It might and probably will work with Van Gaal at the helm, especially if like you said he's more than eager to sign Strootman. My main concern was with the aesthetic appeal of things, but as long as we're successful and playing good football using his methods I'll be more than happy.

 

[thepolice123]

That's an idea but IMO our team will become totally unbalanced. Ideally in a 3 man midfield :
1. is the defensive screen whose main job is to guard the central defenders.
2. is the primary playmaker than can control the tempo of a game while in possession of the ball.
3. is a box-to box midfielder or has good dribbling ability/ mobility to extent plays.

If we look at some of the better traditional 4-3-3/ 4-3-1-2 teams of the past decade :

Gattuso 1, Pirlo 2, Seedorf 3
Busquets 1, Xavi 2, Iniesta 3.
Alonso 1/2 hybrid, Modric 2/3 hybrid, Di Maria 3.
Edmilson 1, Xavi 2, Deco 3.

If we replace the 2 with two #3s there's every chance to lose control of the game, especially vs possession oriented teams because even though Herrera and Strootman are technically gifted - neither those 2 or Blind have the vision or passing range to really impose themselves on the game. The sole example of a successful team using 2 box-to-box player in the central areas Juventus but they have Pirlo as the playmaker.

What we need more than anything else IMO is someone who is like a younger Xabi or Scholes in his older days when he just sat back and picked teams apart. A player like him surrounded by the energy, workrate and mobility of Herrera + Di Maria would be a deadly combination and instantly catapult the current lot into one of the best midfields in Europe. I think someone like Koke or Ruben Neves (very inexperienced) would be better suited to that role than Strootman because both have great vision and the requisite passing range/ defensive work-rate.

There isn't a fixed way to play the game, likewise, there isn't a fixed set of players to play a midfield three. A regista is an important player but he is not be all and end all. You do realise that Xavi, Modric and Pirlo are all very different players? At the end of it, it really depends on how the team is set up and what kind of players there are in the team. Most of the time, teams who wins the midfield battle have 1) More bodies in midfield and 2) Flexibility.

Juventus have Pirlo as their main playmaker but they don't play a genuine #10 whereas we have Rooney and Mata, a hybrid attacking midfielder/CM (Di Maria) and Herrara a mix between a #8 and a #10. If LVG manages to get his philosophy through, our 3-5-2 would have far more tactical flexibility compared to Juventus who sometimes find themselves in major trouble when a team sacrifices someone to man-mark Pirlo.

Barca's midfield trio fits your description of the "ideal" 3 man midfield, but it is incredibly fluid and have other players playing in such close proximity thus enabling them to have complete control over the ball. Xavi also played with two players who would easily make the top 10 all time list.

Pirlo at AC Milan played with sometimes not one but three playmakers. He strangely turned shit for awhile when they all left and he became the sole playmaker.

Alonso was great for Real, but got found out a few times in the big games, especially in the CL when Ozil and Ronaldo wasn't giving the midfield enough support. That's the reason why Mourinho went to buy Modric.

 

[gooDevil]

There isn't a fixed way to play the game, likewise, there isn't a fixed set of players to play a midfield three. A regista is an important player but he is not be all and end all. You do realise that Xavi, Modric and Pirlo are all very different players? At the end of it, it really depends on how the team is set up and what kind of players there are in the team. Most of the time, teams who wins the midfield battle have 1) More bodies in midfield and 2) Flexibility.

Juventus have Pirlo as their main playmaker but they don't play a genuine #10 whereas we have Rooney and Mata, a hybrid attacking midfielder/CM (Di Maria) and Herrara a mix between a #8 and a #10. If LVG manages to get his philosophy through, our 3-5-2 would have far more tactical flexibility compared to Juventus who sometimes find themselves in major trouble when a team sacrifices someone to man-mark Pirlo.

Barca's midfield trio fits your description of the "ideal" 3 man midfield, but it is incredibly fluid and have other players playing in such close proximity thus enabling them to have complete control over the ball. Xavi also played with two players who would easily make the top 10 all time list.

Pirlo at AC Milan played with sometimes not one but three playmakers. He strangely turned shit for awhile when they all left and he became the sole playmaker.

Alonso was great for Real, but got found out a few times in the big games, especially in the CL when Ozil and Ronaldo wasn't giving the midfield enough support. That's the reason why Mourinho went to buy Modric.

Agreed, a regista is a luxury, there Are very few top ones.

Worth noting that Scholes and Pirlo started off playing behind the striker.

Chelsea didn't have one when Mourinho first went to Chelsea and was so successful, like many many other very successful teams.

 

[Ish]

Agree, Falcao, RvP and Rooney playing together seems like a terrible idea. Falcao is a pure predator, RvP is a #9 and Rooney is far, far, far better at #9 than #10. Playing all three would just be a case of fitting in the players we think are least droppable, not the ones who'd actually work together the best.

Mata should be our first choice #10. If he still doesn't perform then dropping him is fine but actually intending to play an inferior #10 ahead of him is stupid.

Yep, it would be like forcing the biggest names into the team because they're undroppable. I really can't see that 3 working together unless we go 4-4-2 (diamond) with Rooney at the tip, but as you mentioned, I'd rather either Mata or even AdM there ahead of Rooney.

 

[Kag]

Looking forward to seeing this guy play week in, week out more so than any of our signings I think.

 

[ZDwyr]

Yep, it would be like forcing the biggest names into the team because they're undroppable. I really can't see that 3 working together unless we go 4-4-2 (diamond) with Rooney at the tip, but as you mentioned, I'd rather either Mata or even AdM there ahead of Rooney.

I'd rather Adnan and Herrera there too. Rooney is awful as a #10 IMO.

 

[Ish]

I'd rather Adnan and Herrera there too. Rooney is awful as a #10 IMO.

Let's just hope we start moulding the best team and not just a cast of the best individuals.

 

[Rozay]

So, Marcos Rojo, who hasn't even put on a shirt yet, gets a 'Performances in 2014/2015', as does everyone else except Ander?

Let's give this a thread change.

Anyway, really looking forward to watching him. Been a fan for a few years, and I think he'll be a surprise as to just how good he is. Crucial for us, we have no substitute for him.

 

[2mufc0]

Has he recovered from his injury yet?

 

[thepolice123]

Agreed, a regista is a luxury, there Are very few top ones.

Worth noting that Scholes and Pirlo started off playing behind the striker.

Chelsea didn't have one when Mourinho first went to Chelsea and was so successful, like many many other very successful teams.

Even before Kroos' emergence as a pure #8, Bayern didn't play a Regista when they won the treble. The one closest to a Regista they have is probably Schweinsteiger but I'd liken him closer to a box-to-box midfielder.

Scholes, Pirlo, Kroos, Modric all started off playing further up the pitch. Another example would be Hernanes at Inter who started out as an attacking midfielder but now plays as a deep-lying playmaker. No reason to think why Herrara can't do the same for us. It is not the hardest role to play in football. I can easily think of 3 or 4 more which require much more ability.

 

[DWelbz19]

Has he recovered from his injury yet?

Yup. Can't wait to see him get started, it's hard to say this but my favourite signing thus far.

 

[JezChan]

Yup. Can't wait to see him get started, it's hard to say this but my favourite signing thus far.

Easy to say when Falcao hasn't turned out for us yet, and Di Maria only once Still quite incredible typing out those names, in addition to Rojo, Shaw, Blind and Herrera

Hope the combination of Herrera, Di Maria and Mata altogether mean a consistent resurgence of fluid play with the ball on the ground (something which never eventuated with just Kagawa for an extended period).

 

[RDCR07]

Does anyone think he might be converted to a more defensive midfielder in order to play alongside Di Maria? Not purely a central defensive mid like Carvalho. He wouldnt have the luxury to bomb forward every time, instead he might be asked to stay back, tidy up and play as a more deeper lying playmaker?

 

[Invictus]

@Rozay

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-2015-performance.394201/

 

[ivaldo]

I don't mind where he players in midfield really, he's such a well rounded player he gibes us such options, there aren't many midfielders left that have such a vast skill set as our Herrera. I hope he does get paired with Blind to ensure he isn't too restricted in his game, we've missed players making late runs into the box these past few years.

 

[Raees]

Does anyone think he might be converted to a more defensive midfielder in order to play alongside Di Maria? Not purely a central defensive mid like Carvalho. He wouldnt have the luxury to bomb forward every time, instead he might be asked to stay back, tidy up and play as a more deeper lying playmaker?

I don't have faith in his tackling ability, he reminds me of an improved Scholes in this respect. He constantly fouls, his standing tackle is poor.. but he can put in a decent slide tackle.

 

[Ekeke]

Does anyone think he might be converted to a more defensive midfielder in order to play alongside Di Maria? Not purely a central defensive mid like Carvalho. He wouldnt have the luxury to bomb forward every time, instead he might be asked to stay back, tidy up and play as a more deeper lying playmaker?

In a two? No way. In a three he needs someone else helping him defend like Blind, Carrick or Fletcher would.

Ander likes to try and make a tackle, what he cannot do is sense danger and snuff it out with good positioning and he's also prone to being very rash in the challenge getting booked and giving away freekicks. He is not the man you want in front of you as a CB

In fact he has all the same issues that Fellaini had when he was used in front of the defence

 

[Borys]

In a two? No way. In a three he needs someone else helping him defend like Blind, Carrick or Fletcher would.

Ander likes to try and make a tackle, what he cannot do is sense danger and snuff it out with good positioning and he's also prone to being very rash in the challenge getting booked and giving away freekicks. He is not the man you want in front of you as a CB

In fact he has all the same issues that Fellaini had when he was used in front of the defence

To be honest I'm surprised so many people want to see him in midfield two with Blind. He probably CAN play there, but this role puts limits on him.

 

[Ekeke]

To be honest I'm surprised so many people want to see him in midfield two with Blind. He probably CAN play there, but this role puts limits on him.

Next to Blind he'd be fine. He just needs someone next to him with more of a mind for defending just like Scholes needed. That allows him to get on with what he's good at on the ball.

Blind is a tidy passer with a great long pass, but he's also a defender and will try to pinch the ball and cover dangerous positions. He'll do a better job defensively than someone like Fletcher

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

To be honest I'm surprised so many people want to see him in midfield two with Blind. He probably CAN play there, but this role puts limits on him.

Why can't he play in a 2 with Blind in the same way that Ramsey plays in a 2 with Arteta / Flamini? It doesn't seem to limit Ramsey that much, who managed to score a shed load of goals from that position last year.

 

[Borys]

Next to Blind he'd be fine. He just needs someone next to him with more of a mind for defending just like Scholes needed. That allows him to get on with what he's good at on the ball.

Blind is a tidy passer with a great long pass, but he's also a defender and will try to pinch the ball and cover dangerous positions. He'll do a better job defensively than someone like Fletcher

Why can't he play in a 2 with Blind in the same way that Ramsey plays in a 2 with Arteta / Flamini? It doesn't seem to limit Ramsey that much, who managed to score a shed load of goals from that position last year.

I just don't want him to sit deep all the time, in midfield 3 he would've much more freedom.

Ramsey has terrific goal record, but I don't think Herrera is on the same level.

 

[Ekeke]

Ander is definitely not on Ramsey's level. And next to Blind you can rest assured Ander wont be sitting, thats what Blind is good at. He's similar to Carrick in that he's prepared to pass the ball around from deep and try to fill the spaces that the opposition will try to exploit. He's probably not as good as Carrick was defensively at his best, but we'll have to see.

 

[justboy68]

Doesn't Van Gaal always play 3 in the middle anyway? I thought that was the one thing he never compromised on. As in the rest of the formation is variable but 3 in the middle doesn't change. I think I saw him say it on some video.

Herrera next to Di Maria with Blind in behind them sounds dandy to me.

 

[Adebesi]

Doesn't Van Gaal always play 3 in the middle anyway? I thought that was the one thing he never compromised on. As in the rest of the formation is variable but 3 in the middle doesn't change. I think I saw him say it on some video.

Herrera next to Di Maria with Blind in behind them sounds dandy to me.

He played 442 at AZ so I dont think he is completely inflexible on it.

 

[Speak]

Doesn't Van Gaal always play 3 in the middle anyway? I thought that was the one thing he never compromised on. As in the rest of the formation is variable but 3 in the middle doesn't change. I think I saw him say it on some video.

Herrera next to Di Maria with Blind in behind them sounds dandy to me.

Hopefully this is the plan, starting this weekend.

 

[RDCR07]

The thing is if we start Di Maria, Herrera and Blind, then only two of Rooney/Falcao/RVP/Mata will start. Di Maria or Herrera will be acting as a #10.

 

[Ekeke]

The thing is if we start Di Maria, Herrera and Blind, then only two of Rooney/Falcao/RVP/Mata will start. Di Maria or Herrera will be acting as a #10.

Di Maria, Herrera and Blind is fine for a midfield 3.

Rooney/Falcao/RVP/Mata would have to fit into a 3 up front, most likely 2 going wide (Rooney/Mata) and 1 through the middle (Falcao/RVP). The other option is to use Mata behind 2 strikers, but that leaves us very narrow

 

[RDCR07]

Di Maria, Herrera and Blind is fine for a midfield 3.

Rooney/Falcao/RVP/Mata would have to fit into a 3 up front, most likely 2 going wide (Rooney/Mata) and 1 through the middle (Falcao/RVP). The other option is to use Mata behind 2 strikers, but that leaves us very narrow

Its a 5-3-2. You play your five defenders, then the midfield three of ADM, H and B, which means you have only two spots left up front for 4 people.

 

[Ekeke]

Its a 5-3-2. You play your five defenders, then the midfield three of ADM, H and B, which means you have only two spots left up front for 4 people.

We dont have to play 1 single system. In fact LVG tends to like to swap between them during games.

4-3-3 is where we could use all of them.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

Hoping he starts today. Still such an exciting signing, been overshadowed by the arrival of the others but he will be such an important player for us.

 

[itso 7]

The thing is if we start Di Maria, Herrera and Blind, then only two of Rooney/Falcao/RVP/Mata will start. Di Maria or Herrera will be acting as a #10.

I don't see any problem with that, do you ?