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His best game was against Tottenham. Otherwise, during that run, he wasn't anything like our best player. In fact, he was pushing Valencia for least impressive player. He was completely anonymous against both City (don't care what Neville says) and Liverpool. Aston Villa - he scored a beauty, but his overall play was average.

It wasn't because we had Rooney up front that we played better, it's because we didn't have Rooney in midfield. I think people underestimate how bad he is there.
 

Escobar

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He's been really poor lately and couldn't complain if he's benched. What really irks me though is to see him play without fire and not really fighting and giving his all. That's not like him
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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Sure it has been discussed but what do we do with him? Not a top class striker anymore, and never was, or will be a top midfielder.

Surely he can't be benched as the captain, and highest paid player, so if we get a top class striker in the summer where is he going to fit in?
 

Isotope

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What really irks me though is to see him play without fire and not really fighting and giving his all. That's not like him
That's totally like him. Like a clockwork, year after year he's always had this period of not being arse in games. Even if he breaks Charlton's goalscoring record, he'd never be a United legend for me (although I'm not sure he'll lose sleep because of that :D).
 

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Sure it has been discussed but what do we do with him? Not a top class striker anymore, and never was, or will be a top midfielder.

Surely he can't be benched as the captain, and highest paid player, so if we get a top class striker in the summer where is he going to fit in?
We're not going to get a top class striker in the summer. He'll play as the default #9 next year and will shine in the position. We'll reinforce other areas of the team in the summer where we need stronger options.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Rooney has been in gradual decline for a few years now, and this is not going to reverse. A combination of body shape, lack of fitness-discipline and 'miles on the clock' mean that this decline is a bit sooner than players like RVP.

If we have any ambitions of challenging for top trophies we need someone younger and more dynamic up front. Whether Rooney is willing to stay in more of a squad-player capacity without the captaincy (and really, on lower wages) is up to him.

Edit: he's still been our best striker this season (not saying much) but this is not the same as being good enough
 
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Cassidy

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His best game was against Tottenham. Otherwise, during that run, he wasn't anything like our best player. In fact, he was pushing Valencia for least impressive player. He was completely anonymous against both City (don't care what Neville says) and Liverpool. Aston Villa - he scored a beauty, but his overall play was average.

It wasn't because we had Rooney up front that we played better, it's because we didn't have Rooney in midfield. I think people underestimate how bad he is there.
Pretty much this tbh. Still our best striker this season, but I think we need to go and look for a good youngish player to come in for Falcao to push Rooney and RVP
 

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Easily our best bet as striker and we're unlikely to get a better one either. Should be nowhere near the midfield though. Let's hope carrick/blind being fit solves that.
 

Raees

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Rooney has been in gradual decline for a few years now, and this is not going to reverse. A combination of body shape, lack of fitness-discipline and 'miles on the clock' mean that this decline is a bit sooner than players like RVP.

If we have any ambitions of challenging for top trophies we need someone younger and more dynamic up front. Whether Rooney is willing to stay in more of a squad-player capacity without the captaincy (and really, on lower wages) is up to him.

Edit: he's still been our best striker this season (not saying much) but this is not the same as being good enough
Good post, I find it unbelievable that peoples standards have dropped so far that Rooney is still seen as an elite level striker... having the likes of Falcao/RVP as competition has made people think we still have an Aguero/Suarez level striker on our hands. He is far from that.

I am grateful that we still have him for this season but by this summer, we need a brand new strikeforce, it is imperative that Rooney becomes a squad player for me as he is not the guy we need up top if we want to be winning the title or making a mark in the Champions League.
 

Speak

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Good post, I find it unbelievable that peoples standards have dropped so far that Rooney is still seen as an elite level striker... having the likes of Falcao/RVP as competition has made people think we still have an Aguero/Suarez level striker on our hands. He is far from that.

I am grateful that we still have him for this season but by this summer, we need a brand new strikeforce, it is imperative that Rooney becomes a squad player for me as he is not the guy we need up top if we want to be winning the title or making a mark in the Champions League.
Agreed. I was called crazy a while ago for saying that Rooney should be phased out... because apparently this is his 'peak'.

But I completely agree. Let this new team really take shape, and rid ourselves of Rooney and van Persie. Unfortunately this wont happen, but it should do. If Rooney has to stay (which I guess he does), I'd phase him out.

I'm looking forward to the day Rooney and van Persie have both gone.
 

Raees

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I'm looking forward to the day Rooney and van Persie have both gone.
Totally agree, they are absolutely not worth their wages at the moment and I think they're hindrances rather than assets going forwards.

I am all for keeping experienced strikers but a guy like Drogba who features here and there when Costa is out is very different to having a slightly past his peak Drogba featuring week in week out based on his past reputation.

Rooney has something to give no doubt, but he is not a starter for a elite club in europe material, he is just a decent striker now and unless he is willing to take a pay cut and accept a role as a backup, I would get shot of him for a decent fee while we can.
 

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Good post, I find it unbelievable that peoples standards have dropped so far that Rooney is still seen as an elite level striker... having the likes of Falcao/RVP as competition has made people think we still have an Aguero/Suarez level striker on our hands. He is far from that.

I am grateful that we still have him for this season but by this summer, we need a brand new strikeforce, it is imperative that Rooney becomes a squad player for me as he is not the guy we need up top if we want to be winning the title or making a mark in the Champions League.
x 9999
 

amolbhatia50k

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Good post, I find it unbelievable that peoples standards have dropped so far that Rooney is still seen as an elite level striker... having the likes of Falcao/RVP as competition has made people think we still have an Aguero/Suarez level striker on our hands. He is far from that.

I am grateful that we still have him for this season but by this summer, we need a brand new strikeforce, it is imperative that Rooney becomes a squad player for me as he is not the guy we need up top if we want to be winning the title or making a mark in the Champions League.
haven't gone through this thread but people here still think that?

Because it's daft. Rooney isn't at that level and hasn't been for a long time. He simply doesn't have the dynamism right now. Hard to see him gaining it again too. I can see him at best giving us regular goals, and being sensible in his play. A top top striker does a lot more than that, for me.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Totally agree, they are absolutely not worth their wages at the moment and I think they're hindrances rather than assets going forwards.

I am all for keeping experienced strikers but a guy like Drogba who features here and there when Costa is out is very different to having a slightly past his peak Drogba featuring week in week out based on his past reputation.

Rooney has something to give no doubt, but he is not a starter for a elite club in europe material, he is just a decent striker now and unless he is willing to take a pay cut and accept a role as a backup, I would get shot of him for a decent fee while we can.
Decent is very harsh IMO. He's obviously still very good. Play him upfront all season and he should give you 20 plus goals. It's just that he has nothing special about him all apart from the decent strike every now and then. He can't run defences ragged. I can't even remember the last time him saw him and felt he destroyed defences, which all the top top strikers do.

But he's a level below IMO, and still a very good striker. Decent striker is what mid table strikers are
 

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I don't really know what makes some posters so sure that Rooney will magically blossom next year as the default number 9. Why could he not do it this season? More specifically In our recent run of form when he played most games as a number 9 and was largely poor? And this was when the team was actually functioning properly and playing good stuff.

He is strong, works hard and holds the ball up well (most of the time) but his pace, ability to go past defenders and to stretch the opposition are and have been in rapid decline. But no it's the merseyside curse/ it's the silent domination/it's the rustiness from being the next thing to Gandhi and sacrificing himself by playing in midfield. Please, this is a 250k a week forward we are talking about.

He has become the jack of all trades and the master of none. That is not good enough for this club and where we are/want to be.
 

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He'll play as the default #9 next year and will shine in the position.
Wishful thinking though. I don't think there are many arguments to support that. We saw this season only that he can score from time to time, but he wasn't even consistent at scoring even though it's his best attribute. He scored one goal in his last 5 games as a striker. In few games where we actually played well he hardly had any shots at all. Same goes for season before this, and before this under Fergie. Basically, he hasn't showed in last three seasons that he is a top striker at all.
I think he is a good striker but he is far from top, top striker all top teams have. You have probably watched Juventus yesterday, and saw that Tevez put better performance than any of our strikers put this year, and that was against Real Madrid. Our strikers didn't look that lively even against shit sides.
I want to think we have top striker in Rooney too even though I like him because I don't see many top strikers available we could buy to push us on the same level as other top teams, plus it would mean that we would worry more about solving other important positions such as right fullback, or replacement for Carrick, but unfortunately we should definitely think about strikers position too. Or at least find a good back-up to Rooney who will at least offers us something different and is ready to replace him when he isn't in good form, which happens few months in every single season.

It doesn't help either that van Gaal doesn't prefer him as number #9 at all, and not just because he is great in midfield because we all know he isn't.
 

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Decent is very harsh IMO. He's obviously still very good. Play him upfront all season and he should give you 20 plus goals. It's just that he has nothing special about him all apart from the decent strike every now and then. He can't run defences ragged. I can't even remember the last time him saw him and felt he destroyed defences, which all the top top strikers do.

But he's a level below IMO, and still a very good striker. Decent striker is what mid table strikers are
Spurs, at Old Trafford. Just over 7 weeks ago.

Not aimed at you, personally, but that's typical of the goldfish memories on here. Ashley Young thread is similar. A handful of mediocre performances and it's as though everything that happened beforehand has been wiped from the record.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Spurs, at Old Trafford. Just over 7 weeks ago.

Not aimed at you, personally, but that's typical of the goldfish memories on here. Ashley Young thread is similar. A handful of mediocre performances and it's as though everything that happened beforehand has been wiped from the record.
Mata's too.

It's been a recurring theme recently.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Spurs, at Old Trafford. Just over 7 weeks ago.

Not aimed at you, personally, but that's typical of the goldfish memories on here. Ashley Young thread is similar. A handful of mediocre performances and it's as though everything that happened beforehand has been wiped from the record.
It was one good run but he just doesn't do what Suarez and aguero do, for me, which is frighten defenders at times. Costa did that for atletico too. Which is fine because he's still a very good player.
 

Eto'odinho

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He has unfortunately become what Alan Shearer was to Newcastle United in his latter years. It remains obvious that he still has plenty to offer as a player but it is also obvious that he simply isn't the best at that. As a team we need far more dynamism in our play, particularly in the attacking third and sadly Wayne hasn't looked like providing it for at least three seasons now. Decisions to displace a powerful (both on and off the pitch) member of the squad like him are always incredibly, and rather paradoxically, difficult especially for stop-gap managers with less affiliation to clubs [than the player].

Perhaps Rooney has become complacent over the years with his guaranteed starting spot, relative longevity, power in relation to having the ear of the management and marketing etc. This may indeed what SAF foresaw in his last season and tried to rectify by providing him with some competition and apparently relieving him of some "privileges". Having said that, however, Rooney just doesn't strike me as the sort of a player that responds well to a gauntlet especially at this late stage in his career.

LVG needs to cast aside sentiments when he evaluates the squad at the end of the season, much like he swiftly did with the sale and/or loaning of several other long serving players last year. If the club truly wants to regain its place at the summit of world football then only the absolute rather than comparatively best players ought to be in our starting eleven. Finally, Rooney is not alone in this lull, it could be argued that our entire strike force needs replacing by the very same token, which is arguably more difficult in practice than in principle.
 

finneh

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I've said it several times; he doesn't have the attributes to be a great player in any position. He goes through purple patches where you think that he's finally found his position and role, but then a month or two later he'll revert to type.

His biggest strengths aren't specific to any position and his biggest weaknesses are also none specific. This means he'll be a £25m solid player in any one of about 5 positions. The problem is we don't aspire to have merely decent-good players in any one of the front 5 positions, we aspire to have 5 great player's. Unfortunately Rooney is not a great player; he's a solid, versatile one.

I still think that he's fine as a second choice striker, he's fine as a second choice number 10, he's fine as a second choice inside forward and he's fine as a second or third choice number 8. The problem is none of our managers have yet had the stones to treat him as second choice. Fergie was going to before he retired, Moyes merely pandered to every big name and Van Gaal made him captain which as he said made him un-droppable.

Unfortunately we will see another 2-3 seasons at least of Rooney shoe-horned into any position that he's decent in and playing every week. Personally I'd stick him up front as at least he's a good finisher and works hard. He certainly is completely unsuited to playing Van Gaal's possession based game, so any other position isn't really viable.
 

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It was one good run but he just doesn't do what Suarez and aguero do, for me, which is frighten defenders at times. Costa did that for atletico too. Which is fine because he's still a very good player.
It would be great to have a striker as good as Suarez or Aguero (minus the injuries) on our books, I agree. Very hard to sign that sort of quality, though. We've definitely lacked stardust since Ronaldo fecked off and Rooney's a bloody good player but not someone you build a CL winning team round. So yes, we're lacking a real superstar (and that's presumably why we signed Falcao and Di Maria) My beef is the way so many people are so quick to label Rooney a busted flush. It's ridiculous.
 

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Moyes/Woody screwed us with that ridiculous contract, at least from a footballing perspective - although I maintain it was the right thing from an off the field point of view. If Fergie had stayed, Rooney would have been sold, most of his defenders on here would likely be like 'yea, he was passed his best', as it never the wrong decision to sell a player on here, although always wrong to criticise them and say they aren't great before they are sold.

Rooney going under Fergie would have been fine, because Fergie = stability, and he wouldn't be the first star he has sold before. However, under Moyes, and the narrative of 'United in crisis' - big 'names' losing would have sent a terrible message. It would look as if Rooney doesn't want to sign a new deal because of United's decline, and the wrong message would be sent.

I think we are deceiving ourselves though if we think that, in this Aguero, Costa, Sanchez etc age that Rooney can be enough of a danger to fire us back to the top? People are now coming up with the whole 'we need Bale/Depay and more goals from wide' stuff to help Rooney and mask the fact that his return is not good enough. At least the perfect mitigation was provided for those who want it in the shape of 5 or so games in midfield (in which he scored 2 of his 12 goals this season anyway if I'm not mistaken). Before that, they had multiplied his 20 max games out wide by 5 or 6 and changed the story to him being a winger while Ronaldo was here.

This will be LVGs biggest test over the coming yearsas to whether he is strong enough to drop his skipper. What is certain is that we need better, both in terms of goal output and approach play.
 

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Mata's too.

It's been a recurring theme recently.
I've not been in the Mata thread, but I don't know how anyone can claim Mata has had a good season. For one, he's barely started, lest we forget he was certainly not in LVG's favour pre-Tottenham. Then he played during The Run; the Tottenham game he was outshone by Fellaini-Blind-Young; he was brilliant against Liverpool; he was good against City; he was good against Villa. That's three good games - and I think he had a few good ones earlier in the season (Liverpool at home) - but that doesn't qualify as a great season, by any stretch.

And it's the exact same with Young. If you were to look at his games on a game-to-game basis, over the whole season, rather than during a little bit of a streak, you'd see he's had an average season by Manchester United standards, but a good season by Young-Of-Last-Two-Years standards.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Moyes/Woody screwed us with that ridiculous contract, at least from a footballing perspective - although I maintain it was the right thing from an off the field point of view. If Fergie had stayed, Rooney would have been sold, most of his defenders on here would likely be like 'yea, he was passed his best', as it never the wrong decision to sell a player on here, although always wrong to criticise them and say they aren't great before they are sold.

Rooney going under Fergie would have been fine, because Fergie = stability, and he wouldn't be the first star he has sold before. However, under Moyes, and the narrative of 'United in crisis' - big 'names' losing would have sent a terrible message. It would look as if Rooney doesn't want to sign a new deal because of United's decline, and the wrong message would be sent.

I think we are deceiving ourselves though if we think that, in this Aguero, Costa, Sanchez etc age that Rooney can be enough of a danger to fire us back to the top? People are now coming up with the whole 'we need Bale/Depay and more goals from wide' stuff to help Rooney and mask the fact that his return is not good enough. At least the perfect mitigation was provided for those who want it in the shape of 5 or so games in midfield (in which he scored 2 of his 12 goals this season anyway if I'm not mistaken). Before that, they had multiplied his 20 max games out wide by 5 or 6 and changed the story to him being a winger while Ronaldo was here.

This will be LVGs biggest test over the coming yearsas to whether he is strong enough to drop his skipper. What is certain is that we need better, both in terms of goal output and approach play.
You should really have a browse of the Welbeck and Pogba threads..
 

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Thing is, for all of Rooney's flaws, there's really no benefit to selling/sidelining him. Which attainable striker out there is better than Rooney?
 

Rozay

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You should really have a browse of the Welbeck and Pogba threads..
Welbeck has been laughed at and ridiculed all season on here, almost from the very week he was sold. To be honest, I actually found it a bit disgusting the way many seemed to turn on him all of a sudden and come out with the 'yea, he was never good enough' stuff, although before hand, he was never on anyone's list to get rid.

Pogba probably started off similar. We all wanted him to stay, then once he left, there was 'well good luck to him if he wants to sit on Juve's bench behind Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio etc', and how we are ell rid and he obviously thinks he's much better than he is. Bit ridiculous to maintain that kind of rhetoric now though, hence the change.
 

NM

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Ever since he moved to midfield, we haven't been able to score goals. He may not have been scoring, but maybe his presence up top was helping?
 

Cassidy

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Ever since he moved to midfield, we haven't been able to score goals. He may not have been scoring, but maybe his presence up top was helping?
Likely, or the other side to the story being, maybe with him not in midfield, the midfield is able to create... swings and roundabouts. Its likely to be some of both tbh
 

amolbhatia50k

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It would be great to have a striker as good as Suarez or Aguero (minus the injuries) on our books, I agree. Very hard to sign that sort of quality, though. We've definitely lacked stardust since Ronaldo fecked off and Rooney's a bloody good player but not someone you build a CL winning team round. So yes, we're lacking a real superstar (and that's presumably why we signed Falcao and Di Maria) My beef is the way so many people are so quick to label Rooney a busted flush. It's ridiculous.
Agree with all of that.

I would like to see us try and sign someone younger who can be backup to rooney and stretch defenders and put some fear into centre backs without being as dependable. Sortof like Danny Welbeck without being anonymous in the final third.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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We're not going to get a top class striker in the summer. He'll play as the default #9 next year and will shine in the position. We'll reinforce other areas of the team in the summer where we need stronger options.
Thanks, that's cleared that one up nicely for me.
 

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Agree with all of that.

I would like to see us try and sign someone younger who can be backup to rooney and stretch defenders and put some fear into centre backs without being as dependable. Sortof like Danny Welbeck without being anonymous in the final third.
Indeed. The best we've seen of Rooney at United was when he was able to link up with players that push defenders deep because they're frightened of pace. For all his flaws, Welbeck has been a far better foil for Rooney than any of our more senior strikers. I still think/hope Wilson could be that player and there's been glimpses of Rooney and Di Maria complementing each other on the pitch. We definitely need another option, though.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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You're welcome, you don't even need to tune into the transfer forum this summer now! :D
No that's perfect, I can now focus on doing something more constructive in the summer.

I don't suppose you tell me the score for the game on Saturday too please? It's doing my head in wondering what's going to happen, so best just to get it out of the way.

Cheers
 

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No that's perfect, I can now focus on doing something more constructive in the summer.

I don't suppose you tell me the score for the game on Saturday too please? It's doing my head in wondering what's going to happen, so best just to get it out of the way.

Cheers
Wow, did I touch a sensitive nerve? You do realize I was only stating my opinion, yeah?
 

Raees

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Which attainable striker out there is better than Rooney?
That is the thing, it is a very difficult question to answer but that is why we have a scouting team. They have to produce the goods here.. it is not good enough to just wait until a superstar pops up like a Suarez at Liverpool, we need to be buying guys like Suarez when he was at Ajax or Aguero at Atletico.. take an educated gamble on a striker who has the hallmarks of being the best and capable of adding genuine dynamism to our attack.
 
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