It's hilarious how people ignore his decline too.
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He's a huge issue because he plays in such a vital role and secondly because he is made captain, it is a big obstacle which gets in the way removing him from the starting XI. Everyone is easy to get rid off, he isn't.
Does anyone think there's a flipside to his versatility that is never pointed out? He can play across the front line and in midfield but in every one of those positions, he's never found the perfect partner or the perfect set of complementary players. He had flashes of form with van Nistelrooy, Saha, Tevez, Berbatov, Hernández, Welbeck and van Persie but none of them were genuinely great partnerships. We still have no idea who even complements him in midfield and over the years we've tried everyone from Michael Carrick to Rio bloody Ferdinand, and he's never really looked comfortable no matter what the setup was. Out wide he's always been nothing more than a stop gap. Some people say he had a great partnership with Ronaldo as evidenced by some great counter-attacking goals, but then others point to 07/08 being perhaps Rooney's worst ever season with us on an individual level in large part because he was sacrificed to accommodate Ronaldo.
He definitely can play a number of positions to a relatively high level from an individual perspective but most of the time it comes at the expense of other players. It's an odd thing to say about someone so selfless and versatile but I've thought for a while now that he's been one of the main players that restricts us. He's never had a fixed position nailed down that we could then build the team around. The major factor him being moved around a lot is his inconsistent form, not his versatility, IMO. If he played like he did in 09/10 on a consistent basis then the team would be moved around to accommodate him, not the other way around.
He's been a mainstay in our team for a decade now and still we don't really know who we should be buying to play alongside him to get the best out of him individually or where we should be playing him to get the best out of the team. That's quite a big problem that is never really discussed on here.
He definitely can play a number of positions to a relatively high level from an individual perspective but most of the time it comes at the expense of other players. It's an odd thing to say about someone so selfless and versatile but I've thought for a while now that he's been one of the main players that restricts us. He's never had a fixed position nailed down that we could then build the team around. The major factor him being moved around a lot is his inconsistent form, not his versatility, IMO. If he played like he did in 09/10 on a consistent basis then the team would be moved around to accommodate him, not the other way around.
He's been a mainstay in our team for a decade now and still we don't really know who we should be buying to play alongside him to get the best out of him individually or where we should be playing him to get the best out of the team. That's quite a big problem that is never really discussed on here.
I'd love to pair him up with a forward up front. He's a good #9, but I think as time goes on the best way to get the most out of him is to play him up front with someone.
CM CM
RM Rooney LM
CF
RM Rooney LM
CF
Well, I think the majority would probably agree his best role is playing at the speartip of a 433 or 4231 (no.9), failing that as a no.10 playing off another forward, and failing that left side or central mdifeld, in that order.
He's had a very, very mediocre end of season run in, not just in terms of goals but performances, which has reignited the Rooney issue I guess, for the fact he seems the first name on the team sheet, captain, undropable etc he's not been spectacular in any given role.
I mean that in the sense we could probably find better players this summer for each specific role... as no.9, no.10, no.8 on the market, for much, much less contractually than Rooney is paid.
Is he good enough to play no.9 reguarly for us next year?, yea... because we have so many other issues with the team that need solving first.
I just can't shake the continual feeling of disappointment with Rooney, it's alarming how long this has been carrying on in one form or another.
He's had a very, very mediocre end of season run in, not just in terms of goals but performances, which has reignited the Rooney issue I guess, for the fact he seems the first name on the team sheet, captain, undropable etc he's not been spectacular in any given role.
I mean that in the sense we could probably find better players this summer for each specific role... as no.9, no.10, no.8 on the market, for much, much less contractually than Rooney is paid.
Is he good enough to play no.9 reguarly for us next year?, yea... because we have so many other issues with the team that need solving first.
I just can't shake the continual feeling of disappointment with Rooney, it's alarming how long this has been carrying on in one form or another.
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Our other issues can be largely resolved if we spend big money, whereas any problems with Rooney could be made worse by doing the same thing. And we *are* going to spend a lot of money, so...
Like a really, really, really high quality John O'Shea....
It is definitely telling that even after all these years the caf would probably still be pretty split as to whether Rooney is best used as a #9 or a #10. That sort of versatility makes it quite hard for us to plan ahead as we could conceivably bring in a better player than him in either position, yet his status is such that strengthening too much would cause its own problems. So the temptation then is to keep moving him from role to role as needed....
It has been pointed out a lot last season and season before that when he was paired with van Persie that he only works with quick strikers who can stretch defenses like Welbeck and Chicharito, hence his best form in last 4 or 5 years was during the time when he was paired with them.
The problem was of course that he was always inconsistent but we could put up even with that if we had someone more quality than Hernandez, but Hernandez simply wasn't quality enough to play in our first XI and Welbeck's problem was always lack of goals, and he never really got the time up front with van Persie's arrival after his good breakthrough season. I think he works well with pacey striker ahead of him but then the team also has to have quality wide players because Rooney's creativity isn't all that and as a somekind of number 10 he should be more creative. If I remember well, in one of his best seasons in last 4 or 5 years he had just 4 assists playing behind Welbeck/Hernandez, even Nani scored lot of goals that season but they were rarely assisted by Rooney.
As for him and his partners in midfield, it wasn't discussed because he never really showed that he can be quality midfielder, IMO. He always lacked few basic qualities (awareness, consistency, defensive nous) midfielders should have to be even discussed as a long term option in midfield.
Personally, my biggest problem with Rooney is that he was undroppable with pretty much every manager(altough, Fergie did know how to use him better than any other manager) which IMO is ridiculous because he is very inconsistent player whose bottom level is really low and I am not sure if there was single season where he didn't show that level for at least month or two. Also, his highest level very rarely happens so that's why I think he definitely isn't the player we should be building the team around.
Rooney's international career is comical to me.
Name even one top class memorable performance from him for England since his goals at Euro 04
At WC 06 he got sent off for stamping, he failed to help England even qualify for Euro 08, at WC 10 his touch and passing was abysmal even at walking pace, couldn't tell you anything about euro 12 and in Brazil last year he did nothing of importance that I can recall - didn't England lose 2 out of 3 matches?
And yet, he's going to be their highest scorer of all time soon and will be celebrated as a great
Name even one top class memorable performance from him for England since his goals at Euro 04
At WC 06 he got sent off for stamping, he failed to help England even qualify for Euro 08, at WC 10 his touch and passing was abysmal even at walking pace, couldn't tell you anything about euro 12 and in Brazil last year he did nothing of importance that I can recall - didn't England lose 2 out of 3 matches?
And yet, he's going to be their highest scorer of all time soon and will be celebrated as a great
I believe it all comes down to what kind of football you want to play and how you plan to create chances in the final third. Rooney is undoubtedly an attacking player who can offer a lot of things in the attacking third and most managers love to have players like him at their disposal. What makes him important, at least in my eyes, is his constant off the ball movement and his ability to create pockets of space both for him and his teammates in between the opposition lines. Now, that's a skill you usually have to pay lots of money to acquire. Furthermore, he collects many second balls, creates numerical advantages in the final third, he can pass and shoot while running with the ball (an aspect of our game where we lack talent) and can score goals in many different ways.
What he can't do is out-muscle CBs and try to get to the end of (blind) crosses or get past two or three defenders because the wide attacking players rarely touch the opposition box. That's why i believe that signing Depay, an inside forward who can score goals, is a move towards the right direction. That's the kind of players Rooney needs near him when he's playing as a forward. Add a b2b CM to our left side and a RB that can cross the ball to our right (to create spaces for Mata) and we'll have a very strong team whenever we are on the ball.
He's not the only player who struggled during our last two seasons. If that was a clear sign of his decline, then we should be considering to kick the 2/3 of our squad out of Carrington. LvG has indicated that he wants to build a team around a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 formation with inverted wingers and i believe Rooney will have no problem to play as a forward in such a team. I also believe that next season we'll see less experiments from LvG with players being used in different positions.
But we're still a work in progress, it'll be fairer to judge Rooney (and all the others) when LvG finally completes rebuilding the team. By then we'll probably have a midfield who won't need half a day to get the ball forward too, so our attacking players will have something to work with. But if we are going to keep playing the ball wide and putting crosses in the box, yes we should look for a different type of forward.
I wish he'd do more of this to be honest. He's become mature and more reliable but also really quite feeble. Doesn't win many tussles, and defended nick the ball of his too easily.
I think that's mostly due to his first touch, he keeps the ball too far away from him when turning. Even his first touch is really bad at times, it almost looks like a pass.
When both him and Ronaldo played together in the early days, I thought they both could reach a similar level both Rooney has regressed so much and so fast.This thread makes me lose faith in the average utd fan.
I think Rooney had a good season in 07/08, his quality got us over the hump in a few games in the league and Europe. And his partnership with Ronaldo was indispensable. I wish we scored that chance in the final, would have probably elevated the trio higher in United folklore.
I understand what you mean and while Rooney's never been a Drogba kind of forward, i believe he still has the pace to get first to the ball in the final third and hold onto possession. But it's true that making a turn to shoot when he receives the ball with his back to the goal or fighting to win a challenge in the box are things that aren't in his repertoire. That's the reason why i believe the best way to get the best out of him is by using two inside forwards on the wings.
I'm not trying to make any excuses for him, this season he's been quite mediocre. But he can score 'classic forward' goals, by making late runs in the box, he can shoot from distance, he can play one-twos near the edge of the box and provide key passes and assists in the final third. I don't understand how so many people think that we shouldn't put all of his abilities to good use.
I mostly agree, although Rooney strikes me as the type who wants first team football, so we if signed a new striker and told him he isnt first choice I could see him getting itchy feet.
Also I can imagine the likes of PSG taking him - or City might want to do it just as a statement.
He's so long in the game, his numbers are so high because of that. Even Welbeck could be one of United's leading goalscorers all time if he stayed here his whole career, lets say from 18 to 34 is 16 years, score 10 goals a season on average for the biggest club in PL and you have 160 goals, it's special that you could average that for such a long period, but it doesnt make you a great imo, in terms of the real quality that you portrayed over the years..to me, Rooney has been at the very top of the world for just 2 seasons, but so have so many many other players. I wont put Rooney in a bracket of the best strikers of all time, the likes of Pele, Van Basten, Fenomeno, and I doubt I would rate him in the category below, Ibra, Suarez, Henry, Raul etc.Rooney's international career is comical to me.
Name even one top class memorable performance from him for England since his goals at Euro 04
At WC 06 he got sent off for stamping, he failed to help England even qualify for Euro 08, at WC 10 his touch and passing was abysmal even at walking pace, couldn't tell you anything about euro 12 and in Brazil last year he did nothing of importance that I can recall - didn't England lose 2 out of 3 matches?
And yet, he's going to be their highest scorer of all time soon and will be celebrated as a great
he slimmed down a lot for the world cup and has maintained that level. he doesn't have the bulk he used to (not a bad thing, he would be slower), plus he is hitting 30
He was faster when he was 'fat' imo, or he looked faster. He has barely outpaced a player this season.
yes but that was when he was younger. before the world cup scholes and other pundits were saying he has more mileage and past his prime while his age says he should be peaking. he is physically in decline to what he used to be but is the best he can be now
Would be a pity, his decline physically began after 2009/2010, aged something like 25? He's never been so strong and fast eversince.
yeah plus he chose not to keep himself tip top. cigs, beer, being sent to fat camp mid season. likely why fergie had enough knowing he had the best of him. he could have squeezed another 2 years in beast mode if he was smart
Nobody would ever accuse Wayne Rooney of being smart
So Valdes answered MUTV's quickfire questions and answers with Rooney ("Wazza") to the "Who's the fastest player?" question.
Just find it weird. Back in the day he was on the rapid side, and without the ball you can tell that his bursts are fantastic. It's just strange that he doesn't use it often on the pitch. I think his issue is acceleration perhaps. Bit slow getting off the mark but when he's in full flow, he's up there.
Just find it weird. Back in the day he was on the rapid side, and without the ball you can tell that his bursts are fantastic. It's just strange that he doesn't use it often on the pitch. I think his issue is acceleration perhaps. Bit slow getting off the mark but when he's in full flow, he's up there.
I think he fancies himself as an intelligent player, and sometimes when you try and play football with your brain, rather than your physical attributes, this happens.
Hes more looking for the intelligent pass, than getting the ball and looking to beat his man.
When we're on the break and hes in full flow, he does still look quick
EDIT: Also being quick over 100m in training is one thing, its an entirely different thing to be able to produce that burst of speed multiple times during a 90+min game (fitness) not that I am saying Rooney isn't fit btw, just an example
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I go to games, and the crowd adores Rooney and think he's the key man.
I come on here, and everyone seems to think he's the main problem, is massively overrated, and is in severe decline.
Love it.
I come on here, and everyone seems to think he's the main problem, is massively overrated, and is in severe decline.
Love it.
And people thought he would fall out with LVG but:
Louis van Gaal has praised Wayne Rooney's work as Manchester United captain this season, saying he is proud of the striker.
Rooney was announced as skipper following the Dutchman's appointment as manager last summer after a number of players were trialled wearing the armband during pre-season.
Van Gaal hailed Rooney's work rate behind the scenes and his versatility on the pitch after making more appearances in a deeper midfield role rather than as a focal attacking point.
"Wayne is a very good captain. I am very proud. I haven't had any disappointments this year with him," he told reporters.
"He is very good in the dressing room. He is always an example of the training pitch and when we play in matches, he always fights until the end.
"Wayne has also played a lot of positions for me without ever complaining. I like multi-functional players and the team needs more players like him.
"I think that I made a very good decision with Wayne because have fought right until the end in all of our matches. The team spirit has been great."
This summer, we need to find the perfect partner for him. Playing Rooney off a pacey striker is key, less pressure from defenders as they'd be more wary of defending against the pace of the other forward, meaning more space for him.
I thought he had a decent partnership with Hernandez, it's just unfortunate that Hernandez lacked a few attributes.
Have we seen Wilson and Rooney paired up together yet? Maybe for a brief cameo with Wilson coming on, but not for a good period of time I believe. Would be good to see that on tour.
I thought he had a decent partnership with Hernandez, it's just unfortunate that Hernandez lacked a few attributes.
Have we seen Wilson and Rooney paired up together yet? Maybe for a brief cameo with Wilson coming on, but not for a good period of time I believe. Would be good to see that on tour.
We have. Can't remember which match it was but Wilson found so much space many many times yet Wayne refused to pass the ball to him.
It was against Arsenal, I think.
Really depends on where you sit
Where I sit he will get slated whenever he's shit and rightly fully so but if I have to sit in my brothers seat it's a Rooney love fest. To be honest Streety is full of some of the most fickle people you will ever meet, booing him and calling him a scouse bastard when he wanted to leave and then singing his name when he scores.
I think it was a home game.
Does'nt have the same fire in him like in his earlier years here, he had a great season in 2010, played up front as the main forward scored a bucket load, I know he has been moved around a lot but over the past few seasons his performances are inconsistent, no matter where he plays there is a certain standard to be met and he hasn't done it for a number of seasons, he does "well" and "ok" over the course of a season but he is on similar salaries to messi and Ronaldo, but you are not getting the same output as those players, SAF wanted rid and that was going to happen until his retirement and then moyes locked him in a ridiculous contract. Think he has done well as a captain but his personal performances continue to underwhelm and his reputation is kept alive with a scattering here and there of impressive goals aided by favourable protection from the media as he is an England golden boy.
According to Valdes, Rooney is the fastest player in the team.
https://www.facebook.com/manchesterunited/videos/vb.7724542745/10153001261727746/?type=2&theater
https://www.facebook.com/manchesterunited/videos/vb.7724542745/10153001261727746/?type=2&theater
yep. and there's a difference between being multi functional (blind) than being put in a position and taking one for the team. with rooney as a supposed midfielder there are 3 teams better than ours
Interesting ESPN Article from LVG's perspective on Rooney's leadership.Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal has praised Wayne Rooney for the way he captains the club.
Van Gaal appointed Rooney as United's captain at the start of the season and is convinced he made the right decision after they established a close rapport.
And Van Gaal has been impressed with the way Rooney, who is also the England skipper, consults with his colleagues.
"He is a democratic leader, he is not a dictator," Van Gaal told MUTV. "I like democratic leadership. He is always setting an example for the other players and maybe Wayne is the example for the team's fighting spirit."
Rooney was sent off against West Ham in September for kicking out at Stewart Downing and has a reputation for disputing refereeing decisions, but Van Gaal has few problems with his attitude.
"Sometimes he can cross the limits but when you review his season you can say that he is a controlled captain," Van Gaal added. "He will always argue with the referee but he did it at the right moment in a positive way.
"I think after one season I can say I made the right decision to make him our captain. I am very happy with him."
His acting in that trailer park commercial was pretty solid. I found him very believable as a bearded slob.
Stand corrected....Not popular on here but, I agree.
Can't wait till we discuss his 09/10 season again....Or the time we sent him to fat camp and he scored a bicycle kick
Wayne Rooney reflects on his first season as Manchester United skipper, discusses his relationship with Louis van Gaal and outlines his aims to lift silverware while wearing the armband...
What was your initial reaction to the appointment of Louis van Gaal as manager and how you have found working with him this season?
It was exciting really, to have the chance to work under him. The record he’s got shows that he is a top manager and since he’s come in he’s been fantastic. He had faith in me and made me captain. Seeing the way he works and his different style of management, it’s clear why he’s been successful.
Were the arrival of so many new faces and injuries to key players both reasons for the team's slow start to the campaign?
The manager came in with new ideas, a new way to play, new training methods and we did find that difficult at first. The manager told us before we started that we were going to find it difficult and it just took a little time to transfer our work on the training pitch to the games. There were also a lot of new players who came in during the summer and it can be difficult for them to bed into a new league and a new team. It was always going to take a while for them to settle in. The injuries didn't help, but I still think we should have done better.
How would you assess your own performances this season?
I think my form’s been good. I’ve played in a few different positions and scored a few goals, but I could probably have scored more. Overall I’m happy with my first season as captain, glad that we’re back in the Champions League and I’m looking forward to trying to help the team be successful next season.
How much have you enjoyed the responsibility of being captain and what does it mean to you?
It was a huge honour to be given the captaincy, it was something I really wanted to do and hopefully I can be successful. There was no silverware for us this season, but it was really important that we got back in the Champions League, which we managed to do. Next season the focus will be on winning some silverware and I hope I can lead the team to doing that.
How pleased are you to have finished in the top four?
Top four was a must, really. We had to get ourselves back into the Champions League and we’ve managed to do that. Hopefully that will provide a springboard for us to go and fight for silverware next year.
What are your aims and ambitions for next season?
We haven’t discussed them yet. For now, we'll look forward to a good pre-season when I’m sure the manager will lay out what he wants from us. I think we have to try and win whatever competition that we’re in. That’s what we always try to do. It’s important that we push on and try to win whatever we're involved in.
What was your initial reaction to the appointment of Louis van Gaal as manager and how you have found working with him this season?
It was exciting really, to have the chance to work under him. The record he’s got shows that he is a top manager and since he’s come in he’s been fantastic. He had faith in me and made me captain. Seeing the way he works and his different style of management, it’s clear why he’s been successful.
Were the arrival of so many new faces and injuries to key players both reasons for the team's slow start to the campaign?
The manager came in with new ideas, a new way to play, new training methods and we did find that difficult at first. The manager told us before we started that we were going to find it difficult and it just took a little time to transfer our work on the training pitch to the games. There were also a lot of new players who came in during the summer and it can be difficult for them to bed into a new league and a new team. It was always going to take a while for them to settle in. The injuries didn't help, but I still think we should have done better.
How would you assess your own performances this season?
I think my form’s been good. I’ve played in a few different positions and scored a few goals, but I could probably have scored more. Overall I’m happy with my first season as captain, glad that we’re back in the Champions League and I’m looking forward to trying to help the team be successful next season.
How much have you enjoyed the responsibility of being captain and what does it mean to you?
It was a huge honour to be given the captaincy, it was something I really wanted to do and hopefully I can be successful. There was no silverware for us this season, but it was really important that we got back in the Champions League, which we managed to do. Next season the focus will be on winning some silverware and I hope I can lead the team to doing that.
How pleased are you to have finished in the top four?
Top four was a must, really. We had to get ourselves back into the Champions League and we’ve managed to do that. Hopefully that will provide a springboard for us to go and fight for silverware next year.
What are your aims and ambitions for next season?
We haven’t discussed them yet. For now, we'll look forward to a good pre-season when I’m sure the manager will lay out what he wants from us. I think we have to try and win whatever competition that we’re in. That’s what we always try to do. It’s important that we push on and try to win whatever we're involved in.
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