I agree. Tough for Martial as well as he barely gets support from fullback (manager instructions). In Liverpool game he was ending up going against 3-4 players by himself. There was a point where Darmian pushed forward though and ended up with a run into/towards the box.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
It's possible there's some problem outside a pitch or at trainings. People think too much about his performances and Liverpool game but maybe there is a problem between the two behind the scenes.
I cannot think of any other footballing reason not to play Martial. He's looked in good nick too! Better than Pogba anyway..
My take on this, besides the obvious attitude/agent problem, is that Martial might not care that much for Mourinho's tactical requests during the games. I think it was during the Tottenham game he didn't help protect Darmian from Sissoko, got subbed at the 72' and the didn't even made the bench in the next game and it took him 4 games to start again. Something similar we might haven't noticed could have happened in the Liverpool game, where he got subbed even earlier, at 62'.
I think Mourinho does it on purpose, I think that it's how he planned his season and I hope that he talked to Martial and explained that it was his attempt to develop him peacefully. I don't think Mourinho is being malicious.
Once again, Damien's table seems to show patterns with certain players never playing together when fit.
Once again, Damien's table seems to show patterns with certain players never playing together when fit.
Hope you're right @JPRouve. Just hardly hear anything nice from Mourinho about Martial. Usually when he speaks its about his agent or something else. Here's the table in full (in descending order of minutes):
Key:
Red = Not picked in squad
Red with (+) in = Injured
Red with (S) in = Suspended
White = Subbed on during the game
Green with tick = Started
Yellow = On bench
Teams played each match:
Real positive is the lack of injuries by our squad.
Key:
Red = Not picked in squad
Red with (+) in = Injured
Red with (S) in = Suspended
White = Subbed on during the game
Green with tick = Started
Yellow = On bench
Teams played each match:
1 - Bournemouth
2 - Southampton
3 - Hull City
4 - Man City
5 - Feyenoord
6 - Watford
7 - Northampton Town
8 - Leicester City
9 - Zorya Luhansk
10 - Stoke City
11 - Liverpool
12 - Fenerbahce
13 - Chelsea
14 - Man City
15 - Burnley
16 - Fenerbahce
17 - Swansea
18 - Arsenal
19 - Feyenoord
20 - West Ham
21 - West Ham
22 - Everton
23 - Zorya
24 - Spurs
25 - Palace
26 - West Brom
27 - Sunderland
28 - Middlesbrough
29 - West Ham
30 - Reading
31 - Hull City
32 - Liverpool
33 - Stoke City
2 - Southampton
3 - Hull City
4 - Man City
5 - Feyenoord
6 - Watford
7 - Northampton Town
8 - Leicester City
9 - Zorya Luhansk
10 - Stoke City
11 - Liverpool
12 - Fenerbahce
13 - Chelsea
14 - Man City
15 - Burnley
16 - Fenerbahce
17 - Swansea
18 - Arsenal
19 - Feyenoord
20 - West Ham
21 - West Ham
22 - Everton
23 - Zorya
24 - Spurs
25 - Palace
26 - West Brom
27 - Sunderland
28 - Middlesbrough
29 - West Ham
30 - Reading
31 - Hull City
32 - Liverpool
33 - Stoke City
Real positive is the lack of injuries by our squad.
Fergie did exactly the same thing
I remember when he sold very good players, because those players just weren't on the same page as him.
I want to believe that Martial is just struggling in his head but it's so hard to ignore that Mourinho has a reputation of mishandling young players, which many on the CAF conveniently ignore in the name of "he is creating a winning mentality".
I like mourinho but struggle to see how any player can excel when you're subbed every game and skip another 2 or 3. At Chelsea he sold Arjen Robben and KDB. In the current age where u have so many top clubs vying for limited talent....we really can't risk losing Martial. Not for a 2 yr stop gap like Ibra.
Just like Rooney did a few years ago, he's telling his agent to leak stories that he's unhappy at United. Not to mention the fact he's cheated on his wife. His end product has been shit this season too. Sell the cnut to China.
You can't be serious
It'd free up wages to buy the next big name from Europe. That's the most important thing.
I don't care who. As long as they're good on Football Manager.
I don't care who. As long as they're good on Football Manager.
I blame both Martial and Mourinho.
Martial needs to man up and listen to his manager. Mourinho needs to realize that just because this approach worked with Mkhitaryan, doesn't mean it will work with Martial. Different players have different personalities and need to be managed on a one on one level differently.
I'm not turning on Jose, he's the right guy for this job, but I think he's got it wrong with Martial so far. Fair enough we have options, but Martial is the best option and he's not going to do as well when 1). he doesn't play consistently and 2). he's scared on the pitch to make any mistake because it can mean another 3 weeks on the sidelines.
Martial needs to man up and listen to his manager. Mourinho needs to realize that just because this approach worked with Mkhitaryan, doesn't mean it will work with Martial. Different players have different personalities and need to be managed on a one on one level differently.
I'm not turning on Jose, he's the right guy for this job, but I think he's got it wrong with Martial so far. Fair enough we have options, but Martial is the best option and he's not going to do as well when 1). he doesn't play consistently and 2). he's scared on the pitch to make any mistake because it can mean another 3 weeks on the sidelines.
Are you talking Liverpool game?
The reason we have that many wingers in rotation is because Rashford and Martial are playing there even tho their natural position is CF. You can add Rooney there as well.
I'll take a wild guess and say it probably has something to do with our 35 year old striker never getting subbed and playing pretty much every game when fit.
It's not just Zlatan. The team's balance on the left is causing problems too.
Pogba is undroppable (a debate in itself) while the left-back is constantly changing. The 'need' to play Pogba more attacking with Carrick deeper means:
1) Only two out of Mata, Mkhitaryan and Martial can play in attack, and
2) Mourinho would prefer his left winger to be more reliable rather than extravagant (eg. Willian). The winger on the opposite side can have more license because of Herrera and Valencia.
Which is why, as of now, he might prefer the Mkhi-Mata pair over Martial-Mkhi.
But yes, Martial should be playing, and no deeper than the role of left inside forward. This 'striker-as-left-midfielder' stuff is baffling.
I can understand why Pogba isn't droppable, due to lack of options in that role but i do agree that left flank won't be reliable attacking option until LB position is sorted.
I think that Martial and Mikhi can work well we've seen both of them tracking back and helping defensively as well as not going into wild dribbles without backup behind them.
He played Ozil and Di Maria on RW position opposite to Ronaldo and none of them ever did any defensive work.
Only one that actually trying to make something happen? Are you blind?
I'm so tired of Martial fan boys twisting reality to fit their agenda. Funny that when he failed to deliver, his fan boy said "He 'tried' to make something". And they knew that's not enough to convince so lets throw "only one" in there too.
That performance didn't warrant anything. Takes Martial out and put Lingard into it and everyone will scream murder. Liverpool fans are not entirely wrong to say he's in the rookie pocket. If he wasn't the best goal scorer from last season nobody will move an eye lid if he doesn't start a game again. It's only that fact (and that he has 'amazing talent') that we're willing to overlook it.
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I don't understand posts like these. A young lad in a difficult second season, after being our best player in his first. Clearly very talented.
Twenty years ago every fan would have been behind him or at the very worst neutral. Then you see the above post and there's genuine dissatisfaction. Almost an anger that Martial is getting away with something. Where does it come from? I don't get it.
I am behind him. I just don't like bullshit. When he had a bad game, his fans should accept he had a bad game and move on. We're always willing to support him.
I have a problem with deluded post, not with Martial.
Maybe it's the whole 'fanboy' and 'agenda' accusations then. Doesn't help your post at all.
so....your point is moot then?
Maybe we should accept that Jose will never be any good with youth and sell him while his value is still high.
Or maybe Jose should adapt to the club? He's paid an awful lot to do the best he can for the club, and that includes getting the best out of one of our most talented players. It's foolish to think of selling him - his value will only increase as he's got a very high ceiling. It will be Pogba all over again.
Best thing is for the powers that be at the club to sort this out. Can't have Jose alienating this kid.
Yeah.. re-read my post it appears that way. Thank you for your suggestion.
I know somebody would point this out.so....your point is moot then?
Didn't Deschamps have a similar problem with Martial. Something about him not doing enough or not pushing himself in training ? Attitude problems ?
Yes
Well, Jose for one won't be tolerating any such sulking lackadaisical behavior no matter how talented the player is. Wonder why people on here are having a go at Jose when a similar thing has happened with NT manager.
Just wondering what's happened. He didn't seem to have this issue last season under LVG - whom many on the café say is not a good man manager unlike Jose. Just wondering what's happened between the end of last season and the Euros for him to act up...
'All football managers get rid of competition for their personal favourites.' (Voltaire)
Imagine Jose getting rid of Martial for his personal favourite Fellaini.....
Firstly LVG signed him from near obscurity. Martial got a massive pay-rise, big crowds to play in front of, adulation, etc etc etc.
So Martial is not going to complain to anybody at this stage.
The other thing was that because Martial was delivering the goods for LVG - so LVG kept playing him.
So, in his first season, both LVG and Martial won't be complaining.
A year on, Martial perhaps began to think, "I am the man". This is quite normal - he had a good season so his ego got bigger.
Perhaps Jose/Deschamps are not willing to entertain his ego? Who knows
The stuff about him cheating on gf, them splitting, her bitching about it in social media all have been a bit hard on him.
But even on the field, there's been difference in what Lvg expected of him and Jose does.
Last season, he was this wonder kid with no expectations of sudden success and he came good. We played more through him and let him have a free role.
This season there's expectations, the system is different, his role and what's expected of him has changed and with the bit part role and emotional problems he's having, he hasn't been able to deliver.
edit: and the shirt number thingy too. Like @Cassidy mentioned.
I think many are saying the issue is with both player and manager. Or at least I am anyway.
For instance, a player is sulking, we took his shirt number and won't play him in his favored position either.
Anyway I just hope Martial knuckles down and sorts what ever he needs to sort, and that Jose learns (like Fergie did) you cannot use the same management technique with every player.
Definitely. We made an unreal deal for him. And the responsibility of making use of his potential and helping him through tough period rest with us partially too.
But berating the manager as someone who doesn't like young players or destroys them is a bit much.
Didn't Jose have similar issues with Joe Cole, Robben and Hazard?
If my memory is correct, Cole especially found it hard going under Jose and was forced to adapt to the manager's demands. Eventually Cole did adapt his game and got back into that Chelsea team.
Hopefully it's something similar with Martial and not anything serious. We all want Martial to make it here and reach his potential.
The player and his agent should know Mourinho is a serial winner and someone to listen to.
If my memory is correct, Cole especially found it hard going under Jose and was forced to adapt to the manager's demands. Eventually Cole did adapt his game and got back into that Chelsea team.
Hopefully it's something similar with Martial and not anything serious. We all want Martial to make it here and reach his potential.
The player and his agent should know Mourinho is a serial winner and someone to listen to.
Agreed there. I think hes been showing hes open for the main part here. Rashford too also seeing minutes.
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