[Robbie Boy]

Why's he been involved so much? Why haven't our two £30m+ signings Mkhitaryan and Martial nailed those two postitions over the course of the season?

I don't excuse his poor performances at all, but for me there's much bigger questions about Martial and Mkhitaryan this season than Lingard.

Yup and people are discussing that in their threads.

This should be about Lingard and his performances and today he was atrocious and it's an all to common occurrence.

 

[ReallyUSA]

If Mhki and Martial were up for it this year, he would have seen probably half the games he did.

 

[izzydiggler]

If we had players that were comfortably out performing him I'd understand the criticism, but he had two on target, and was more mobile than anyone but Rashford.
Shit team performance, but not the worst culprit by a mile.

I read this a lot on here (that not being the worst player is somehow a defence) and I don't agree with it. IMO he's very average most games - if it is the case that we don't have players outperforming him (debatable, although I lean towards agreeing) it would show how many average players we have, which is the reason we're unable to turn draws into wins.

As I've said, I'm not a particularly big fan of his but I think he can be a valuable squad player after a fair few better signings...if he was the worst player in our squad, I'd be very happy with it and I think that's what we should be aiming for, rather than making hoping he'll be a first choice regular.

 

[Born2Lose]

If Mhki and Martial were up for it this year, he would have seen probably half the games he did.

This is the truth, his detractors will say he's championship standard and then moan about him not making a difference in pressure games for us when we have a guy like Mkhitaryan sitting on the bench.

 

[stevoc]

And it's about time he stopped getting a free pass for his 'movement'.

Yeah his off the ball movement doesn't really seem to benefit us in any tangible way most of the time. I'm more concerned about the things our players do on the ball.

Breathtaking? Lay off the fags.

Whoosh.

 

[Verminator]

Quality response,and fair play to you.
I just think that there are players that we expect more from, that are producing less. At some point, reputation has to be shown the window.
We need people to step up, to prove Lingard should not be in the team. At the moment, he is worth his place. That is the indictment of the squad we have.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Yeah his off the ball movement doesn't really seem to benefit us in any tangible way most of the time. I'm more concerned about the things our players do on the ball.



Whoosh.

Mostly because our midfielders aren't looking to play people in.

Rashford was visibly angry at one point in the first half because he'd made two good runs off the last man with a fairly easy ball on and was just completely ignored.

Sorting out our midfield is our biggest priority imo, only Herrera and Pogba are good enough.

 

[Fracture90]

Pretty invisible today, he can't beat a man 1on1, he needs technically sound players to interchange with, the likes of Mata and Mikhi.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Leave Lingard alone, you're upsetting Raoul, he'll have to take the poster off his bedroom wall

 

[Robbie Boy]

It's funny that people keep bringing up Mkhitaryan in defense of Lingard and saying that Mkhitaryan has been crap. Strange then that he has double the amount of goals and nearly double the amount of assists that Lingard has, but he's been crap apparently and Lingard hasn't. As I said, the bar is set ridiculously low for the likes of Lingard and Fellaini and any semi-competent thing they do is met with adulation by their fans on here. FFS, I remember Lingard set up a goal against WBA (I think) earlier in the season with a good cross and people went on about that cross for about 2 months. I mean seriously, talk about low fecking standards.

It's always the same when he has a shocker; certain posters will blindly defend him and blame literally everyone else. I think Fred The Red and some of the mega-store staff are being blamed for him being utter gash today. But according to some, he was decent. The double standards are amazing; when Lingard gets criticised, some posters take extreme offence and then usually launch into tirades against Mkhitaryan and Martial. Funny that it's fair game to tear some players to shreds but not poor little Jesse.

 

[Sandikan]

I thought Lingard looked turbo charged today and really up for it. Unlike most of the guys.
But then I've always thought he's a very useful player to have around.

 

[Sandikan]

Mostly because our midfielders aren't looking to play people in.

Rashford was visibly angry at one point in the first half because he'd made two good runs off the last man with a fairly easy ball on and was just completely ignored.

Sorting out our midfield is our biggest priority imo, only Herrera and Pogba are good enough.

We've spent a lot of the season looking to play balls to our target man Ibra's feet, so it's probably no surprise the ball to a runner isn't the immediate thought

 

[Paul the Wolf]

It's funny that people keep bringing up Mkhitaryan in defense of Lingard and saying that Mkhitaryan has been crap. Strange then that he has double the amount of goals and nearly double the amount of assists that Lingard has, but he's been crap apparently and Lingard hasn't. As I said, the bar is set ridiculously low for the likes of Lingard and Fellaini and any semi-competent thing they do is met with adulation by their fans on here. FFS, I remember Lingard set up a goal against WBA (I think) earlier in the season with a good cross and people went on about that cross for about 2 months. I mean seriously, talk about low fecking standards.

It's always the same when he has a shocker; certain posters will blindly defend him and blame literally everyone else. I think Fred The Red and some of the mega-store staff are being blamed for him being utter gash today. But according to some, he was decent. The double standards are amazing; when Lingard gets criticised, some posters take extreme offence and then usually launch into tirades against Mkhitaryan and Martial. Funny that it's fair game to tear some players to shreds but not poor little Jesse.

The previous argument was he didn't get as much game time, I think he's started 10 of the last 12, waiting for the new excuse.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What if Lingard is a world beater - but faking it? As in, he pretends to be a bit shit (compared to an actual world beater) because he's devious and lazy (and crazy)?

I don't trust any of our players these days. Pretty sure Rooney's so-called decline is fishy too - classic case of a player faking shiteness in order to get out of playing much. Too bad for him we're loaded with injury fakers, so he ends up being picked despite his efforts to remain on the bench.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He's not good enough be a starter for a club wanting to win things imo.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

B+ for effort today, like always.

Poor form atm though.

 

[SachinJ22]

Why's he been involved so much? Why haven't our two £30m+ signings Mkhitaryan and Martial nailed those two postitions over the course of the season?

Assuming Mourinho didn't fancy Mata, that must have been his intention from the start to have Martial left and Mkhitaryan right.

I don't excuse Lingard's poor performances at all, but for me there's much bigger questions about Martial and Mkhitaryan this season than Lingard.

I think the big problem with this United team isn't the Fellaini's, Lingard's etc but the "big" players who don't perform consistently enough.

Fellaini and Lingard are selected irrespective of bad performances while Mkhi and Martial are on the bench or are rested after 1 bad game. If it was his intent to use Mkhi and Martial on the left and right wing, why was Mkhi not selected for so many matches earlier. I remember they both had one very good game but the next match they couldn't play so well and one of them was rested for the match after that bad performance. Why the special treatment only for players like Fellaini, Lingard, Ibra and Pogba?

 

[Jaybomb]

He's not good enough be a starter for a club wanting to win things imo.

Except when we HAVE won things, he's scored in all 3 finals...

 

[Litch]

It's interesting as some players will be fans favourite irrespective of what they do, and others just won't. He fits in that category. I think if he had a Spainish or Italian passport he'd be seen different than a lad from Warrington. For me his issue is the same as all the younger lads in the team, they play like their on the playground at school and lack maturity in their game. That energy is great for one off games where like big matches, it's great to be fearless but like yesterday where there is the expectation to win, they can't handle that type of pressure.

We might have to wait a few years before the Lingards, Martial and Rashford have the maturity in their game to be consistent performers.

 

[Ixion]

It's interesting as some players will be fans favourite irrespective of what they do, and others just won't. He fits in that category. I think if he had a Spainish or Italian passport he'd be seen different than a lad from Warrington. For me his issue is the same as all the younger lads in the team, they play like their on the playground at school and lack maturity in their game. That energy is great for one off games where like big matches, it's great to be fearless but like yesterday where there is the expectation to win, they can't handle that type of pressure.

We might have to wait a few years before the Lingards, Martial and Rashford have the maturity in their game to be consistent performers.

Except Lingard is 4-5 years older than the players you're trying to group him with. And Rashford is already more consistent than him and Martial proved he can be last season.

Fans do not have agendas against players. Rojo used to be a typical scapegoat when he played but as he performed better and better it stopped and he is now considered a huge loss. Maybe Lingard just needs to do better if he's going to be starting nearly every week?

 

[togg]

There is just something dislikeable about Lingard....not his football....just him, not sure what it is. It was the same with Cleverly!

Subjective yes....and perhaps unreasonable....but genuine for me nonetheless.

 

[stevoc]

Except when we HAVE won things, he's scored in all 3 finals...

He's only scored in two finals, which is a great achievement in itself. So theres no need to exaggerate things.

 

[stevoc]

It's interesting as some players will be fans favourite irrespective of what they do, and others just won't. He fits in that category. I think if he had a Spainish or Italian passport he'd be seen different than a lad from Warrington. For me his issue is the same as all the younger lads in the team, they play like their on the playground at school and lack maturity in their game. That energy is great for one off games where like big matches, it's great to be fearless but like yesterday where there is the expectation to win, they can't handle that type of pressure.

We might have to wait a few years before the Lingards, Martial and Rashford have the maturity in their game to be consistent performers.

With Martial and Rashford i agree you could be right. Lingard is 25 at the end of this year though, of course theres always room for improvement but only so much. What you see with him now is pretty much what we will get with him i suspect.

He shouldn't really be compared to two young players 3-5 years younger than him in terms of development.

 

[PoTMS]

What if Lingard is a world beater - but faking it? As in, he pretends to be a bit shit (compared to an actual world beater) because he's devious and lazy (and crazy)?

I don't trust any of our players these days. Pretty sure Rooney's so-called decline is fishy too - classic case of a player faking shiteness in order to get out of playing much. Too bad for him we're loaded with injury fakers, so he ends up being picked despite his efforts to remain on the bench.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we can rule this out.

 

[Jaybomb]

There is just something dislikeable about Lingard....not his football....just him, not sure what it is. It was the same with Cleverly!

Subjective yes....and perhaps unreasonable....but genuine for me nonetheless.

Honestly not seeing this. He seems fun to be around so no idea what anyone would have against him.

On top of that, Cleverley was shit. Lingard isn't. He's already done more for us.

 

[stevoc]

Honestly not seeing this. He seems fun to be around so no idea what anyone would have against him.

On top of that, Cleverley was shit. Lingard isn't. He's already done more for us.

I'd say they're around the same level. Not a huge fan of Cleverley but he did play 20+ games in a title winning team to be fair to him, they're around equal in terms of contribution at this stage.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Honestly not seeing this. He seems fun to be around so no idea what anyone would have against him.

On top of that, Cleverley was shit. Lingard isn't. He's already done more for us.

Cleverley was part of a title winning team.

 

[Litch]

Except Lingard is 4-5 years older than the players you're trying to group him with. And Rashford is already more consistent than him and Martial proved he can be last season.

Fans do not have agendas against players. Rojo used to be a typical scapegoat when he played but as he performed better and better it stopped and he is now considered a huge loss. Maybe Lingard just needs to do better if he's going to be starting nearly every week?

I accept Lingard is older but he presents with an immaturity about his game. The idea that fans don't have agendas about players is laughable at best. Some players will get the benefit of doubt when they aren't playing well, others are queuing up for when they make a mistake....

 

[MikeUpNorth]

There is just something dislikeable about Lingard....not his football....just him, not sure what it is. It was the same with Cleverly!

Subjective yes....and perhaps unreasonable....but genuine for me nonetheless.

Yeah, agreed. Something a bit rodenty about their faces, and they somehow don't seem to be as grateful for their luck as they should be.

 

[Litch]

There is just something dislikeable about Lingard....not his football....just him, not sure what it is. It was the same with Cleverly!

Subjective yes....and perhaps unreasonable....but genuine for me nonetheless.

I know what you mean, there's an immaturity about him that means I can't take him seriously....

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I accept Lingard is older but he presents with an immaturity about his game. The idea that fans don't have agendas about players is laughable at best. Some players will get the benefit of doubt when they aren't playing well, others are queuing up for when they make a mistake....

Has he improved in the past 2 years since he became a regular? In the last year other than his goals at Wembley what other contribution has he made to the team , his other 3 goals were two that were the 4th of 4 goal thrashings of Feyenoord and Fenerbahce and the goal against Middlesbrough where he ran half the length of the pitch without a Middlesbrough player anywhere near him.

He may have one game in 10 which is not awful or anonymous - should we just bring him out of the cupboard if we get to Wembley. This is why he gets stick. Other players may have 2, 3 or 4 games out of 10 when they're ineffective - this is the difference.
Take Rooney who gets a lot of stick, people says he's finished and he probably no longer merits a place in the team but he's played the same number of games as Lingard and has been twice as effective.

Younger players than Lingard can be more inconsistent but he's 25 later this year, if he had made progress there may be more leniency but there is no sign whatsoever because he doesn't have the technical skill to improve.

 

[Boycott]

I don't think I'm alone in finding Griezmann annoying / immature but if he delivers the goods in a United shirt no one will complain. It's sad - especially because Jesse is a local boy who is living his dream - but that's football fans for you. If you're not producing or simply labelled not good enough you've not got the leeway that other more fashionable players can get away with.

 

[Verminator]

And the ruthless, serial winning manager Mourinho keeps playing him, when Joe Bloggs on the caf knows better?
Won't someone think of the children?!

 

[stevoc]

And the ruthless, serial winning manager Mourinho keeps playing him, when Joe Bloggs on the caf knows better?
Won't someone think of the children?!

Including yourself in that are you?

Unless of course every opinion you've expressed on here has lined up perfectly with the current manager's thinking and decisions.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Including yourself in that are you?

Unless of course every opinion you've expressed on here has lined up perfectly with the current manager's thinking and decisions.

What's the point of opinions eh. We should all just agree with what the manager does. Would make for a fun forum.

 

[stevoc]

What's the point of opinions eh. We should all just agree with what the manager does. Would make for a fun forum.

Yeah it's a bit of a stupid argument really. Don't know how many times i've seen similar spouted by someone on here who will hypocritically proceed to questions the managers selections in another players performance thread. Sometimes even on the same fecking day.

 

[edgecutter]

Lingard works hard and just like Fellaini he is the kind of player that will follow Jose's instructions to the letter. Unlike Fellaini, Lingard is playing in a position that requires some end product and we are yet to see any consistency in that department when we are crying out for something to happen in games. It doesn't help when he skies crosses and fires shots down the keepers throat or over the bar. At 24 years of age he should be able to produce more if United want to push on to win league titles and that is why I question the future of his stay within the starting eleven.

Even if Martial, Ibra, Mata, Rashford or Micky are playing poorly, I am more confident that they will have a moment of magic that can turn a game. That same feeling doesn't resonate in me when I see Lingard on the ball, he often makes poor decisions or gives square balls.

 

[Freak]

Does anyone have his games-goals-assist output for this season? I'm quite interested to see it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah it's a bit of a stupid argument really. Don't know how many times i've seen similar spouted by someone on here who will hypocritically proceed to questions the managers selections in another players performance thread. Sometimes even on the same fecking day.

It's as ridiculous as the argument that we should excuse poor performances because it's not 'x' players fault that the manager picks them. The straw clutching with certain players amazes me.

 

[An Irish Red]

On top of that, Cleverley was shit. Lingard isn't. He's already done more for us.

They're about the exact same level. Both average players who had more chances than their talent deserves because they played for our youth teams.