I am quite surprised to see how many people have already made up their minds about a 23 year old defender coming into a new league. Seems like we should just release him from his contract and be done with it.
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As of now. Things could change months down the road.
People in here have exceptionally short memories. just a mere 5 months ago we were shitting ourselves due to injuries in defense and had to rush back 2 of them for our biggest games of the season. Sure, Lindelof hasn't taken off immediately but his signing is a necessary one if only to make up the number.
We were in a peculiar position regarding all of our CBs. Bailly has performed well ever since coming to the club but like any other player he can be subjected to injuries and loss of form. Rojo, Smalling and Jones all have injury and consistency issues surrounding them. The alternative to bringing in someone young like Lindelof who wouldnt mind a year or two settling in would be someone like Bonucci who would almost certainly drive out our current batch of CBs and a few years down the line when he's done we'd be screaming about Mourinho's lack of foresight.
Just give him time. If he doesn't come good, shift him off. A 10-15m loss is peanuts to us, if it ever comes to that.
We were in a peculiar position regarding all of our CBs. Bailly has performed well ever since coming to the club but like any other player he can be subjected to injuries and loss of form. Rojo, Smalling and Jones all have injury and consistency issues surrounding them. The alternative to bringing in someone young like Lindelof who wouldnt mind a year or two settling in would be someone like Bonucci who would almost certainly drive out our current batch of CBs and a few years down the line when he's done we'd be screaming about Mourinho's lack of foresight.
Just give him time. If he doesn't come good, shift him off. A 10-15m loss is peanuts to us, if it ever comes to that.
They wanted to ship out Evra, Vidic and probably Ronaldo in his early days as well... so dont worry.
Lindelof might never become the player Jose thought he could be but he'll need another season or two before we can write someone off
I think a majority of us will give him time and patience and believe he'll come good and the player we hoped. Like a lot of times though, it's the minority that makes the most noise that gets heard.
But agree, it's crazy people writing him off already.
This forum sometimes.
I remember when people were convinced Mkhitaryan was going to be sold in January.
I remember when people were convinced Mkhitaryan was going to be sold in January.
Two geniuses at work here.
How you drew such an incorrect, narrow-minded and brief conclusion from my thorough post is beyond me. Yet you got the nerve to call it stupid. Really nailed that one didn't you.
You read one or two lines and thought you understood? Apparently you didn't understand jack shit. It's not a case of nationality and I did not say that either. It's a lazy assumption and just confirms that you missed the point completely.
It's a case of the football culture/education in the Swedish footballing system/association, which I was pretty clear about. The way talent is spotted, brought in, nurtured and developed. In terms of football. In recent years, there is a reason why our centre-backs (or other positions for that matter) haven't been anywhere near the very top.
At least try reading entire posts before pouring your constructive feedback over them.
Not contradictory at all.
Just wow.
How you drew such an incorrect, narrow-minded and brief conclusion from my thorough post is beyond me. Yet you got the nerve to call it stupid. Really nailed that one didn't you.
You read one or two lines and thought you understood? Apparently you didn't understand jack shit. It's not a case of nationality and I did not say that either. It's a lazy assumption and just confirms that you missed the point completely.
It's a case of the football culture/education in the Swedish footballing system/association, which I was pretty clear about. The way talent is spotted, brought in, nurtured and developed. In terms of football. In recent years, there is a reason why our centre-backs (or other positions for that matter) haven't been anywhere near the very top.
At least try reading entire posts before pouring your constructive feedback over them.
So, you agree with @Obiorahking_ who didn't understand my post whatsoever, in that nationality has nothing to do with it, which he claims I said it does… yet you say Norway can't produce good wingers?
Not contradictory at all.
People are so quick to write off a player. He's obviously not quite gotten his rhythm yet. Criticising performances is one thing, but give him some time before you decide he's actually shit.
Doesn't he need to actually play a game before we can judge him either way?
My guy, you said that when was the last time a Sweedish center back actually belonged at a top club as if where someone's from actually has a significant impact on their quality. Mikitaryan is Armenian yet is a borderline elite player who has played a big part in the sucesses of Dortmund just like how Aubameyang is from Gabon, a country I had no idea existed nevermind had a football system, yet is a world class striker. If you are good, you are good and a winner dosen't let their circumstances define their future. To suggest that because he was brought up in a disadvantaged football background has actual bearing on an individual's future success is stupid and borderline offensive.
I imagine he will probably make an appearance in the League Cup match with Blind as partner somehow. Not sure why I think that maybe just so Blind can do the thinking for them similar to Blind/Smalling to take the pressure off Lindleof.
Blind and Vic together is a receipt for disaster at CB. Smalling and Vic should work better. I dont think we will see much of Blind at CB
Lindelof and Smalling will play in the Champions League against Basel together. Probably then play against Burton, but I would like to see Tuanzebe get a game.
This. Mourinho knows what he's doing. He's adapting Lindelof to the rigours of the premier league. I have no doubt he will be immense for us
I agree Smalling and Lindelof would work better but can see Blind getting the nod over him for Burton. Still no idea why.
Ah yeah, forgot Bailly and Jones are both suspended. Would be nice to see Tuanzebe get a game but cant see wholesale changes like Fergie did a few times in the early rounds of the cups.
Jose was always going to start with defenders that already know each other very well in order to make a positive start to the league season.
Lindelof will get plenty of chances this season, but he obviously needs more time to adapt to his new surroundings which is to be expected.
Lindelof will get plenty of chances this season, but he obviously needs more time to adapt to his new surroundings which is to be expected.
Poor example. Born and raised in France, played in various youth teams in France and was capped at underage level for France.
Yeah one of the annoying aspects of Mourinho is that he likes to be a strong team in the League Cup (not full of kids) which is what a lot of us have been used to under Fergie. Hoping Tuanzebe gets a start at right back though.
When people think Jose has bought a centre back and he will be a write off...
I expect him and Smalling will be the centre back pair for the first 6 cl games. Mourinho showed last year that he is happy to stick with a pair that are working well. The champs league gives him a valid reason to change Bailly/Jones without upsetting the balance.
Would be happy with that. There won't be too much of a drop in quality.
To be fair the lower leagues have more games to play, more physically reliant than technical prowess, easier to get battered by injuries. It's like sunday league football with sunday league tackles.
Of course not. all we need on here is you tube videos and a couple of pre-season matches
What you chose to focus on and furthermore interpret is not my problem. You're just cluttering my point and creating confusion, incrementally in regards to both. You obviously won't understand my original post no matter how many times you read it.
Now for some fun facts:
Both of the players you mention are exceptions to the rule that neither Armenia or Gabon have a history of producing quality or world class footballers, at least not yet. What are you trying to argue or discuss in that regard. That can change with time and development, but as of now, no words will change that, it is indeed how it is.
Also, Mkhitaryan actually spent a few years of his early development in Brazil. So your point completely missed the mark in his case, my guy. He has said that his time in Brazil was very valuable to him. Not even Armenia's greatest player (perhaps ever) has been brought up entirely through the Armenian footballing system. I read this back in November of 2016, right around the time he got back to United's squad, I suggest you read it too: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/henrikh-mkhitaryan-manchester-united-zidane-kaka-and-hamlet/
The bolded part that I quoted from your post suggests to me that you don't even understand yourself here. You recognise there can be disadvantaged football educations – but that shouldn't have any bearing on progress. Wtf, of course it has.
Or are you denying it entirely with the support of a straw man argument you seem to insist on laying towards me? Once more also dishing out the label of stupid, whilst adding that it's now offensive too. Assessing different nations' footballing cultures, development and education from a pure football perspective is neither stupid nor offensive. It has nothing to do with nationality or ethnicity. Talent can be found anywhere at any time. It's how that talent is nurtured and developed that's key to players' careers. Some are better at developing talents than others.
Don't waste my time with another one of your pointless replies and grow the feck up.
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As @Robbie Boy states, not even Aubameyang was brought up through the Gabon football system either. So, both of your examples were erroneous. Hilarious.
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But the fact that exceptions to the rule exists(even if the rule is true) means that future exceptions are possible.
He spent most of his years in Armenia or around that area just like how Lindleof I assume spent most of his years in Sweeden before signining in Portugal. By your reasoning, who is to say that Lindleof's years in Portugal weren't beneficial?
Natural talent can't be taught. If you have natural talent and have the hard work to take that talent to the next level, anything is possible.
I admit my mistake with Auba, but Mkhitaryan was born and raised in Armenia and brought up through that system.
What about Christian Eriksen? Last great Danish midfielder that came up through the Danish system(if my memory serves correct) was Michael Laudrup?
What about Eric Baily? Until he 17 he grew up in Ivory Coast who arn't known for producing elite center backs?
Sadio Mane? Started his career in the Senegalese football academy
Chicharito Hernandez(prime)? Started out in Mexico before coming to United
Christian Pulisic? One of the biggest talentes in the world right now at the age of 18 yet spent most of his years developing in US(where I can account that the academies are trash compared to the worlds best)
As I said before, if you are good, you are good. The fact that Lindleof is here right now at the age of 22 and was scouted by and rivaled for by many teams proves that he has natural talent. What he did on the pitch got himself here, not his past. So as I said, to suggest that his past is going to determine what he can do in the future rather than what he is doing right now is stupid.
Genuinely forgot he was a United player until I saw this thread pop up again. The new Schweinsteiger. Needs to make more supportive social media posts to fill the gap left by the pig rider.
I hate that wholesale full of kid policy in league cup & FA Cup. I meant look at all those young players SAF & Wenger gave gametime like this. Pretty much all of them failed to establish themselves eventually. SAF used to play strong team in these cups. Later in his reign, it seems like he want to focus more in CL and the league given more threat coming from the sugar daddy clubs. This saw us being less successful in domestic cups, especially FA Cup where we couldn't win it for nearly a decade under SAF.
What is wrong with playing full squad of youngster? It's pretty much the U23 team. So they have experience to play against a real competitive team. However, they don't earn experience from playing with real first team player. So instead of learning to become real first team player, they ended up showcasing their raw talent. They may have good form and impress, but their style is not being cultured the right way.
IMO, the best way to integrate young players into first teams is few at a time to play along real first team players (strong line up). This seems to be the way Mourinho is implementing. This way, there is no free undeserving chance, so the players in U23 having to put their uttermost effort to get selected, and when they do, they get "real" experience as first team. Either they grab the chance or they have to go back to earn their chance again. This way complacent doesn't get into their head and they learn to always have to push themselves.
I don't worry about Tuanzebe. He didn't waste his chance, and when there would be a time where there would be too many games for just the senior players to deal with.
I don't understand how I strawmanned your argument. From your post you asked when a sweedish center back belonged at one of the top clubs? then you said that Lindleof's football education and his values are rooted in the Sweedish education system which has fallen behind. So from both of your points it is implied that because he came from a poor football education and that no one else recently who came up from Sweeden has actually done welll at a big club, Lindleof is likely not going to succeed here, yes? So let me pose this question for you: Why was he brought here under a manger known for cultivating center backs? Why was he such a widely scouted player? Why was he named to the Champions League Breakthrough XI? Its talent. He is a talented player with bags of potential, so as far as I'm concerned, his past dosen't mean jack all to me.I hear you, and of course we should be patient with new signings.
In this particular case though, I personally just can't see it further down the road either, at least not as a centre-back. He also lacks pace to make it as a full-back. The only position in which I can see him having a successful future as is defensive midfielder. Take note, all of this is in regards to his prospects at the very top. He's already proven (to some extent) that he can do it at one level just below the top.
And bear in my mind that I'm Swedish whilst asking this rhetorical question – but ffs, when was the last time a Swedish centre-back actually belonged at one of the giant clubs in Europe? You can make a minor case for Olof Mellberg, but apart from his brief stint at Juventus, no!
The last truly worthy Swedish centre-back was Patrik Andersson, around 15–20 years ago. And even Andersson, despite being perhaps the best centre-back Sweden has ever seen, didn't actually last that long at the very top, at Bayern or Barcelona, with all due respect to Borussia Mönchengladbach. Though to be fair, injuries played a major part in his specific case.
Before Andersson, there was Glenn Hysén, but that's three decades ago. From someone who's watched the Swedish national team for two of those three decades, we don't exactly have a track record of producing world class centre-backs, unless you view Jonas Olsson, Daniel Majstorovic, Teddy Lucic or Joachim Björklund as world class. It doesn't matter that Lindelöf went abroad at a pretty young age either, his core football education and values are strongly rooted in the Swedish football system/association, which has fallen behind for the past decade or so.
I didn't understand this potential acquisition when rumoured in January and I questioned it then too. I understand it even less now and question it even more.
If Rojo hadn't been out with long-term injury, we would've probably not even signed another centre-back. Incidentally, the rumours fading away in January actually did coincide with Rojo's good form. But ok, sure, depth in CB is always a good thing. Why management chose Lindelöf as the solution for that is beyond me though…
And to think that some actually penned him down as a starter when doing line-up previews for the season.
Our best centre-backs are Bailly, Rojo and Jones. Period.
Imagine that I'm with a bunch of scouts watching him play against Bayern:
Scout 1: I love how comfortable he is on the ball and how he is not afraid to drive it forward.
Scout 2: Agreed, quite the passer as well.
Scout 3: Seems to have very advanced positioning for his age, hasn't put a foot wrong so far
Me: See the thing is, he was brought up in Sweeden who arn't really good at developing center backs nowadays. I don't think he will do well at a top club.
Scout 1: Are you watching the gam--
Me: IRRELEVANT. I don't want his poor values infecting the players.
See how crazy that sounds?
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I feel one at least one of Bailly or Jones should always feature for now.
I'm interested to see how he and Smalling look vs Basel. If they give a solid performance, it can create a good rotation for CL and the League. Bailly and Jones have to stay our top unit in the league until an injury or a dramatic change in performance (hopefully neither happen).
Unless an injury/ fitness issue, further suspension, I don't think Smalling would be a sure starter for any games. Last season, the need for Smalling is due to our aerial ability was poor. I meant with Matic, we don't need cover for Herrera aerially in the defense with Smalling since using Fellaini all the time can be counter productive.
Using Smalling now is upsetting the balance due to his average on ball ability, while his aerial ability is just overkill. Matic is even superior to Herrera so our defense was better cover, so no need a dedicated defense only CB like Smalling against team who parked the bus against us.
I think he may start at RB at Stoke as Valencia will only be back at Manchester tomorrow morning? Jose may save Valencia for the midweek CL game who has played 2 games for Ecuador
Interesting point on Valencia fitness. Possible.
There is a chance Smalling would partner Jones as CB with Bailly to play RB, too. Knowing Mourinho, he's pragmatic and would go for safer option: players with PL experience.
Bailly's actually looked good in the few instances where he's played RB. Tends to make some really inventive runs both on and off the ball.
Baily and Jones as our first CB pair made basic school boy errors that caused us the game against Stoke. It's time to give Lindelof a chance. He can't be any worse anyway.
I believe that the pair should be dropped as warning that they must always be top of their game to be Man Utd starting CB.
I believe that the pair should be dropped as warning that they must always be top of their game to be Man Utd starting CB.
It is not like he hasnt made schoolboy errors himself so far. He needs to be eased in, a game in the CL next week, then league cup here and Fa Cup there. I wouldnt play him much til he is ready, give him more time. I hope when the fixtures pile up in a few months he can rotate without issues
He'll be fine with a run of games. With our current situation, makes sense for him to be on bench. Let's wait until the "lesser" cups then give him a run out.
Plus, no one expects Jones to be fit all season so surely Lindelof will get his chance.
Plus, no one expects Jones to be fit all season so surely Lindelof will get his chance.
We still have Smalling, Rojo also ahead of him. Tuanzebe possibly too (not on merit but ability).
I don't trust Smelling. Rojo was good last season but let's see if he reverts back to his old Rabona self
I trust Lindelof even less.
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