[finneh]

Ozil is far more athletic than Mata. Go and look at how he played in Madrid's counter attacking team to see 20+ goals Mata could never be part of.

Liverpool played with 10 men for 45mins and that Liverpool side would get crushed by the current spurs team.

Mata has been very poor all season but doesn't get the criticism a genuine star like Ozil get's because he's being held to a lower standard. You only need to look at the numbers of goals/assists/key passes/dribbles/whatever statistical metic you want to see Ozil out perform Mata.

Ozil is not far more athletic than anyone. Pogba is far more athletic; Ozil is fractionally more athletic at a push.

The reason Ozil is criticised more than Mata has nothing to do with the formers ability. Whatever your feelings on Mata he always puts in effort and tries to work for the team, regardless of his physical limitations. Ozil however gets criticised because when things aren't going his way he stops doing the absolute minimum of what you'd expect from anyone, be they the best player ever or a Sunday league bum... Working hard.

 

[goin4glory]

Ozil is not far more athletic than anyone. Pogba is far more athletic; Ozil is fractionally more athletic at a push.

The reason Ozil is criticised more than Mata has nothing to do with the formers ability. Whatever your feelings on Mata he always puts in effort and tries to work for the team, regardless of his physical limitations. Ozil however gets criticised because when things aren't going his way he stops doing the absolute minimum of what you'd expect from anyone, be they the best player ever or a Sunday league bum... Working hard.

Ozil is criticised when he has no effect on the game and it's put down to a lack of desire. If Mata was criticised for having no effect on games he'd get slaughtered. It's not even a close debate Ozil simply out performs him on basically every metric, I wouldn't be surprised if he even covered more distance on average.

 

[Leftback99]

Without the goals to mask it, it seems more are realising how little he offers to our overall play.

 

[Sammyjunn]

He has got almost nothing in his locker, he is neat and tidy in his passing, decent finisher from close range and has a curl in him. That's it, nowhere near good enough to play for us and we should sell him quickly. Shocking that we didnt go for Bernardo Silva this summer.

 

[AshRK]

I will always think of him fondly. Lovely guy but his time is up. Maybe if he is ok being a squad player ,playing cup games then he is an asset but if not time to cut our losses.

 

[haram]

I'm not dragging you into anything. Just reiterating my point that playing Mata over one of Martial and Rashford won't provide us with anything extra. I'm also referring to those that told everyone that he 'kept things ticking' or allowed us to control games and so was an essential player.

Yes because we are playing so much better than we were at start of the season with Rashford on the left and Mata on the right. Rashford has been worse on the right which was your arguement so I dont get your point.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Not the best season for Juan unfortunately. Great Guy and i think i speak for many on here in saying that i would love to see him playing well week in, week out as he such a nice guy.

But he's just been all over the place really. Not even in the squad for some of our games this season and when he does start a game it just passes him by. I can really see him leaving in the summer. It looks like things have gone a bit stale for him here at the moment. Would love to see him turn things around though.

Yeah, this really. Desperate for him to recapture form but it's just not happening and it's hurting us. IMO the biggest difference between us and city is the #7 and #10 in our side compared to theirs. Ours are Lingard/Mata/Mkhitaryan who for three months have basically had no impact on our play whatsoever. Wouldn't be so bad if Mata was chipping in statistically(which he's always done) but even that's completely gone.

 

[Silas]

Yes because we are playing so much better than we were at start of the season with Rashford on the left and Mata on the right. Rashford has been worse on the right which was your arguement so I dont get your point.

Worse than Mata or worse than his left-sided version?

 

[haram]

Worse than Mata or worse than his left-sided version?

The team was playing better. Even if we are talking about just Mata, he's been better than Rashford on the right.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

The team was playing better. Even if we are talking about just Mata, he's been better than Rashford on the right.

We were playing relegation candidates.

The moment we met the first half decent team I.e Soton, we got pinned in our own half for the best part of the match.

 

[Skills]

He'll leave this summer. We might offer him an extension, but I don't think he'll take it anyway

 

[haram]

We were playing relegation candidates.

The moment we met the first half decent team I.e Soton, we got pinned in our own half for the best part of the match.

And what the hell are Brighton then? What the hell was Newcastle in the first half? We changed it and put Mata on the right second half and improved.

 

[Silas]

And what the hell are Brighton then? What the hell was Newcastle in the first half? We changed it and put Mata on the right second half and improved.

Brighton are 9th right now.

 

[haram]

Brighton are 9th right now.

Whats your point? The gap is 6 points to a relegation spot.

 

[Silas]

Whats your point? The gap is 6 points to a relegation spot.

That they're in better form than the other teams we played. Three of their five losses so far this season were against us, City and Arsenal.

 

[haram]

That they're in better form than the other teams we played. Three of their five losses so far this season were against us, City and Arsenal.

Is this now your argument then? Brighton have still dropped points to Bournemouth, Everton and Leciester who are below them. Should we excuse Palace seeing as they have played Spurs, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool? Brighton are 6 points from relegation. They are still candidates for the drop. Stop acting otherwise.

The fact is, we were playing better as a team with Rashford on the left and Mata on the right. Mata has been better than Rashford on the right period.

So, you making snide remarks about my argument of Mata offering better balance than Rashford on the right is funny seeing as you're still the one that is wrong here.

When Rashford does better than Mata on the right and we play a run of games where we are better as a team, let me know.

 

[simonhch]

Just not good enough and hasn’t been for ages.

 

[breakout67]

Whatever Rashford has been doing on the right, is a bad thing and I don't like it. We were completely exposed on the flanks against both Newcastle and Brighton. A large part of our improvement against Newcastle was because we switched to a 4-4-2 with Rashford as a support striker.

The one thing Mata does much better than Rashford and Martial is track back, and a large part of his decline is due to him having to work much harder as a wide player.

Martial and Rashford on each wing doesn't work; they ball watch far too often and leave the full back and CM on their own. You cannot play 2 in midfield and have your wide players walking back when you lose the ball.

 

[kundalini]

Mata has 13 starts and 1 sub appearance this season, 914 mins on the pitch in all competitions. I'm genuinely surprised he's back in the team after his costly blunder against Huddersfield; of course players are going to make errors at some stage of the season but one goal scored, plus one assist, while being at fault for one goal conceded, are horrendous stats for a player in his position.

 

[Silas]

Is this now your argument then? Brighton have still dropped points to Bournemouth, Everton and Leciester who are below them. Should we excuse Palace seeing as they have played Spurs, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool? Brighton are 6 points from relegation. They are still candidates for the drop. Stop acting otherwise.

My point was always regarding their form, when did I state otherwise? The Palace comparison doesn't really work as they're doing crap regardless of those games.

The fact is, we were playing better as a team with Rashford on the left and Mata on the right. Mata has been better than Rashford on the right period.

So, you making snide remarks about my argument of Mata offering better balance than Rashford on the right is funny seeing as you're still the one that is wrong here.

Us supposedly playing better early on also coincided with Mhiki being in good form, which I'd say made more of a difference than Mata being on the wing. Also doesn't help that when we have played Rashford on the right, it's been Mata who's played at #10 and still offered us nothing. Without mentioning balance, tell me what Mata's brought to the table that's been considerably above what Rashford is capable of on the right.

When Rashford does better than Mata on the right and we play a run of games where we are better as a team, let me know.

Sure.

 

[haram]

My point was always regarding their form, when did I state otherwise? The Palace comparison doesn't really work as they're doing crap regardless of those games.


Us supposedly playing better early on also coincided with Mhiki being in good form, which I'd say made more of a difference than Mata being on the wing. Also doesn't help that when we have played Rashford on the right, it's been Mata who's played at #10 and still offered us nothing. Without mentioning balance, tell me what Mata's brought to the table that's been considerably above what Rashford is capable of on the right.


Sure.

Palace are now only 3 points from escaping the relegation zone and beat Chelsea so....

I have spoken at length about that already. You can look though my posts if you want. I have held these opinions before Rashford was deployed at RW as well. I got a lot of stick for it and some people still insist on having Rashford on the right.

 

[Dobbs]

Palace are now only 3 points from escaping the relegation zone and beat Chelsea so....

I have spoken at length about that already. You can look though my posts if you want. I have held these opinions before Rashford was deployed at RW as well. I got a lot of stick for it and some people still insist on having Rashford on the right.

Like the manager?

 

[haram]

Like the manager?

If you really think Mourinho insists on having Rashford at RW, ok. Not really going to debate something like that, waste of time.

 

[Dancfc]

He looks half the player he was in 2012 and even then i wasn't particularly enamored.He was a decent creative option in a period we had next to none of it but as soon as we looked to get back to challenging for the title Mata was surplus.

I was predicting for a while he'd return to Valencia after United, but they themselves look like they are shooting up to a level that is beyond Juan's.

 

[Isotope]

In Benitez short stint at Chelsea, he made Mata one of the best playmaker in the league. I vividly remember Mata's game against us, where EVERY Chelsea's attack went through him. And boy, he firmly grabbed us right on the balls. What happened to him since his move here, is a mystery to me. Where has his mojo gone?

Anyway, sadly I have this gut feeling that Mata would thrive at Arsenal, City and Liverpool; fast attacking teams that keep ball on the ground. Sadly, he didn't and won't get that with us, under Moyes, LvG, and Mou now.

 

[Dancfc]

In Benitez short stint at Chelsea, he made Mata one of the best playmaker in the league. I vividly remember Mata's game against us, where EVERY Chelsea's attack went through him. And boy, he firmly grabbed us right on the balls. What happened to him since his move here, is a mystery to me. Where has his mojo gone?

Anyway, sadly I have this gut feeling that Mata would thrive at Arsenal, City and Liverpool; fast attacking teams that keep ball on the ground. Sadly, he didn't and won't get that with us, under Moyes, LvG, and Mou now.

Playing for City and Liverpool requires a lot of pace and stamina, Mata would bomb even harder there imo.The one team he could work at is Arsenal if Ozil goes.

 

[roonster09]

In Benitez short stint at Chelsea, he made Mata one of the best playmaker in the league. I vividly remember Mata's game against us, where EVERY Chelsea's attack went through him. And boy, he firmly grabbed us right on the balls. What happened to him since his move here, is a mystery to me. Where has his mojo gone?

Anyway, sadly I have this gut feeling that Mata would thrive at Arsenal, City and Liverpool; fast attacking teams that keep ball on the ground. Sadly, he didn't and won't get that with us, under Moyes, LvG, and Mou now.

You watch Silva play, he will have plenty of options to pass the ball even when he is crowded in the middle, other players make lot of movement and are available for pass. At ManUtd players stand in their position and wait for the ball to come to them. It's amazing how our players don't move and help the player in possession at all.

Playing for City and Liverpool requires a lot of pace and stamina, Mata would bomb even harder there imo. The one team he could work at is Arsenal if Ozil goes.

Not really. Fabregas plays for Chelsea, he is hardly the quickest. Likewise Lallana, Countino are not rapid. They move the ball quicker and very quick in transition using their other pacey players. They move the ball very quick that's the difference.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

And what the hell are Brighton then? What the hell was Newcastle in the first half? We changed it and put Mata on the right second half and improved.

What point are you trying to prove exactly? We've been cack since the Pool match with or without Mata on the right. It's patently obvious the problem in attack with this team goes deeper than Pogba's presence or this mythical 'balance' that you constantly try to push. In our early 4-0 wins, the floodgates didn't really open either until either Rashford or Mata went off for Martial/Lingard/Fellaini etc... so how exactly does that help your argument?

 

[haram]

What point are you trying to prove exactly? We've been cack since the Pool match with or without Mata on the right. It's patently obvious the problem in attack with this team goes deeper than Pogba's presence or this mythical 'balance' that you constantly try to push. In our early 4-0 wins, the floodgates didn't really open either until either Rashford or Mata went off for Martial/Lingard/Fellaini etc... so how exactly does that help your argument?

Did they not contribute to the team breaking opponents down? It becomes easier to score after getting the first goal because teams have to chase the game. My point is, Mata is better than Rashford for the right hand side. This guy posted a snide remark as if I had been proven wrong. He was banging on about Rashford being better for the right. There is no proof for that at all.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Did they not contribute to the team breaking opponents down? It becomes easier to score after getting the first goal because teams have to chase the game. My point is, Mata is better than Rashford for the right hand side. This guy posted a snide remark as if I had been proven wrong. He was banging on about Rashford being better for the right. There is no proof for that at all.

So then wouldn't that logic applies to the Newcastle match, when we were already up 2-1 going into the 2nd half?

I'm of the same opinion early on in the season, but frankly as of this moment I'm not sure anymore since we struggle in attack regardless of the front 3/4 make up. Rashford's best position is as a striker and there are very little I've seen of him that convinces me otherwise, so the difference between having Martial/Rashford as a wing duo versus Martial/Rashord on the left and Mata on the right is minuscule I'd say.

 

[Jaybomb]

He’s out of form but let’s not get carried away with the whole “Get rid” BS.

He’s a ball retention player. Rashford and Martial are not. We need players with Mata’s qualities in the big games. Playing both Rashford and Martial on the wings against City will be a massive mistake.

 

[AndyJ1985]

He's another Mkhitaryan. Weak as piss and goes missing too often.

 

[Dobbs]

If you really think Mourinho insists on having Rashford at RW, ok. Not really going to debate something like that, waste of time.

He's playing Rashford on the right more frequently now correct?

When Mata was on the right you used Mourinho's decision as proof it was the correct thing to do. So I'm assuming you're using the same logic now he's picking Rashford.

 

[haram]

He's playing Rashford on the right more frequently now correct?

When Mata was on the right you used Mourinho's decision as proof it was the correct thing to do. So I'm assuming you're using the same logic now he's picking Rashford.

He's played him there twice. Newcastle he moved him from RW at half time because the team wasn't playing that well. Against brighton he didnt start there but he moved him because he tried to gain more control of the game with Mata in the middle. So no, it's not very frequent at all.

And no, my opinion was not just based on the fact Mourinho was playing Mata on the right. It's almost as of you are trying to insult me with that comment. I have made posts explaining why I think Mata is better on the right, you can go read them if you want.

I had been explaining why I think Mata is better on the right than Rashford. This guy then decides to make a snide remark as if he had been proven right. As if Rashford was the beter choice on the right, when the fact is we played better as a team with Mata on the right early on in the season and Rashford hasn't been good on the right anyway. That's the evidence we have.

 

[Dobbs]

He's played him there twice. Newcastle he moved him from RW at half time because the team wasn't playing that well. Against brighton he didnt start there but he moved him because he tried to gain more control of the game with Mata in the middle. So no, it's not very frequent at all.

And no, my opinion was not just based on the fact Mourinho was playing Mata on the right. It's almost as of you are trying to insult me with that comment. I have made posts explaining why I think Mata is better on the right, you can go read them if you want.

I had been explaining why I think Mata is better on the right than Rashford. This guy then decides to make a snide remark as if he had been proven right. As if Rashford was the beter choice on the right, when the fact is we played better as a team with Mata on the right early on in the season and Rashford hasn't been good on the right anyway. That's the evidence we have.

I've seen you arguments, one of which was Mourinho's decision is the correct decision. Right now he's picking Rashford over Mata in that position(I didn't say frequently) You don't see any value in that but the manager does right now.

If Mourinho thought Mata on the right was working as well as you do he wouldn't have removed him from that position as he has recently. Again you've previously put a lot of stock into Mourinho's decisions.

 

[haram]

I've seen you arguments, one of which was Mourinho's decision is the correct decision. Right now he's picking Rashford over Mata in that position(I didn't say frequently) You don't see any value in that but the manager does right now.

If Mourinho thought Mata on the right was working as well as you do he wouldn't have removed him from that position as he has recently. Again you've previously put a lot of stock into Mourinho's decisions.

Right, and Mkhi is out of form so he tried something different. Rashford and Mkhi don't play the same when picking up central positions so it's different. He still moved Mata back to the right against Newcastle and started him there against Brighton. There is little to support the opinion that Rashford is a better choice than Mata on the right.

People keep joking about me using the word 'balance' but Mourinho again said we perhaps played too many attackers and lost control of the game. He is probably talking about playing Rashford and Martial at the same time.

 

[T A]

Rashford worked better when he moved between Lukaku and Martial, in left-central area. Also that formation give us more presence in opponent box against the teams parking bus like what Brighton did. Dont know why Jose still insists on putting Mata as No.10 plus playing Rashford on the right after the first 30 minutes against Newcastle and his own words after that same match.

In RW position Micki is far better than Mata. Maybe just because he invisibly played in some last matches then we all forget it was non-Pogba period where anyone else was in the same downfall form as him. Now Paul is back and soon Micki will claim his place again. Pretty sure front four Martial - Rashford - Lukaku - Micki (NOT Martial - Micki No.10 - Rashford plus only isolated Lukaku up front) will eat every obstacles alive

 

[Escobar]

He's become a nothing player. Really a shame but he is one player who needs to leave in summer

 

[Oldyella]

I like a lot of what he does, keeping the ball moving etc. And also the way he tucks in and creates space for an overlapping fullback, but his end product seems to have dropped off a cliff this year, and given the overlapping fullback right now is AV who seems to have forgotten how to cross a ball I don't think he gives anything to the team right now.

Would be reluctant to move him on just yet though, as most of our attacking players seem to be misfiring, not just him.

 

[Ish]

Like just about everyone else, love the bloke but we need much better that what Mata's offered this season.