[Jeppers7]

https://talksport.com/football/458447/dave-kitson-talksport-paul-pogba-manchester-united-players/

This sums up my feelings on the Pogba issue, and the general issue of tactics in general.....aside from Saturday when Jose allowed , coerced the team to press to give the impression we are better without Pogba. Not really...we do look better on the front foot though

 

[Eyepopper]

I think it's important to remember that Mourinho had turned plenty of Chelsea fans against Hazard at one point. He's always had a problem with players whose personalities he deems "unprofessional" but those players have never actually done anything that bad on or off the pitch and they always continue forward in their career after he leaves. It'll be the same with Pogba. The only questions here is whether Pogba will leave at the end of the season along with Mourinho.

Did Hazards performance dip to the point where he was being easily dispossessed against teams like Southampton?

 

[VJ1762]

The last 2 games have clearly illustrated that we are better without him ,the team now looks together and committed.

Well, I don't agree with your opinion either. The last 2 games were against Arsenal( we only drew anyway and didn't create any meaningful chances) and a Fulham side who are at the bottom of the table. I don't see how we can beat 'pool next week without Pogba. Liverpool press the shit out of opposing teams and Pogba is the most press-resistant player in our midfield. If we play without him, we are in for a mauling at Anfield. Players like Matic don't know how to play around the press. Too many times, fans are swayed by players showing 'passion' and 'energy'. We need creativity and Pogba is the only creator in our midfield.

 

[crossy1686]

So are you happy with the way United plays under Mourinho? Players shouldn't be able to voice their opinion when it's clearly not goinf in the right direction? You expect players to shut their mouth not matter what even if the coach's choices are sometimes nonsense? That's not how it works, not even remotely. I don't think that it would have worked fine had players like Gerrard played under Mourinho.

I'm amazed when I see the lack of perspective about Pogba here. Some don't realize that his other coaches totally managed to made him play where they wanted. Look at Pogba in the french national team, he becamse a team leader playing far more defensively than he's used to. But i played his part, was really good and never complained a second. He was manageable at Juventus, he is with France, he was under LVG. There's only a problem with Mourinho but yeah, keep pretending it's a matter of attitude and that he should play and keep his mouth shut. Good luck attracting the players you need while playing europa league.

I didn't say any of the nonsense you've presumed in this post.

There is a right way and a wrong way to air grievances. As a player, speaking publicly to undermine your manager is a bad idea, if you don't believe me, try it at work today. Stand up in a meeting and call your boss out for not having enough vision, in your humble opinion, see where it gets you.

Theres is absolutely nothing wrong with having a private 1-1 chat behind closed doors about the direction of the team or the football being played.

It is a matter of attitude, Pogba clearly doesn't like the way Mourinho does things so he has two options: leave or knuckle down and prove that he can play regardless of the shackles placed on him. Speaking publicly about the issue just upsets the team (not everyone is going to agree with him) and makes him look bad. Jose is doing a good enough job at getting himself sacked but Pogba won't be too far behind him if he carries on, the board won't allow a player to dictate which managers they play for and which they don't, we don't need players like that.

I'm sure we will still attract players playing in the Europa league, it never stopped us before, which is a lot more than PSG will be able to attract when they get banned from all European competitions thanks to FFP. Who want's to play in a 5th tier European league for title that no one even considers to be an achievement?

 

[MadDogg]

I didn't say any of the nonsense you've presumed in this post.

There is a right way and a wrong way to air grievances. As a player, speaking publicly to undermine your manager is a bad idea, if you don't believe me, try it at work today. Stand up in a meeting and call your boss out for not having enough vision, in your humble opinion, see where it gets you.

Theres is absolutely nothing wrong with having a private 1-1 chat behind closed doors about the direction of the team or the football being played.

It is a matter of attitude, Pogba clearly doesn't like the way Mourinho does things so he has two options: leave or knuckle down and prove that he can play regardless of the shackles placed on him. Speaking publicly about the issue just upsets the team (not everyone is going to agree with him) and makes him look bad. Jose is doing a good enough job at getting himself sacked but Pogba won't be too far behind him if he carries on, the board won't allow a player to dictate which managers they play for and which they don't, we don't need players like that.

I'm sure we will still attract players playing in the Europa league, it never stopped us before, which is a lot more than PSG will be able to attract when they get banned from all European competitions thanks to FFP. Who want's to play in a 5th tier European league for title that no one even considers to be an achievement?

What has Pogba actually said publicly about Mourinho?

Compare that to Mourinho who has publicly attacked Pogba (and half a dozen other players) multiple times, and a number of other times it's come from Castles who is well known to be the reporter that Mourinho or someone in his team leak things to. Hell, just a couple of months ago Mourinho made himself look like an absolute idiot by attacking Pogba when he knew the media were recording, only to then find out that he was completely wrong about the thing he was attacking him about (that he thought Pogba posted on social media at the end of a match we lost, when it turned out he did it early on when we were winning). Did Pogba ever get any kind of apology or even acknowledgement of that mistake?

 

[MadDogg]

Glad hes been dropped.
I dont care what anyone says he amongst many other players definitely purposely downed tools earlier in the season untill they realized jose wasnt getting the sack.
Needs to happen more with these over paid prima donnas.

It was more the opposite. Pogba was the one who was dragging us to victory in the matches where it looked like Mourinho was about to be sacked.

Pogba started the season very well, then had four or so poor matches (one of them was absolutely terrible). Then he kicked into gear again and he, along with Martial, basically won us a bunch of matches in a row just at the peak of the reports that Mourinho was about to be fired. That continued for a while until about a month ago where he's started to play poorly again (one of them absolutely terrible).

The sad thing is that as bad as he was in his two poor periods, the fact that he was as good as he was in his two good periods makes him arguably our best player over the course of the season. Nobody else has actually played well as much as he has. Shaw had a great start. Martial had a great month or two. And that's about it.

 

[Silas]

Glad hes been dropped.
I dont care what anyone says he amongst many other players definitely purposely downed tools earlier in the season untill they realized jose wasnt getting the sack.
Needs to happen more with these over paid prima donnas.

Pogba and Martial were pretty much the only players performing for a long while.

 

[crossy1686]

What has Pogba actually said publicly about Mourinho?

Compare that to Mourinho who has publicly attacked Pogba (and half a dozen other players) multiple times, and a number of other times it's come from Castles who is well known to be the reporter that Mourinho or someone in his team leak things to. Hell, just a couple of months ago Mourinho made himself look like an absolute idiot by attacking Pogba when he knew the media were recording, only to then find out that he was completely wrong about the thing he was attacking him about (that he thought Pogba posted on social media at the end of a match we lost, when it turned out he did it early on when we were winning). Did Pogba ever get any kind of apology or even acknowledgement of that mistake?

We don't know what happening behind the scenes, there could have been conversations regarding social media usage or even apologies issued, we don't know what was said.

Everyone must recognise that speaking to the press in an interview isn't just talking to a mate or having a casual chat down the pub, everything said is said for a reason, with intent and purpose. Managers use press conferences to motivate players (where and however they see fit) and put pressure on other teams or make a point to someone. So when Pogba comes out and says something along the lines of 'United should attack' he knows exactly what he's saying and he knows exactly who he's putting pressure on. It's a clear attempt to undermine the manager, Pogba isn't in charge of tactics or the team selection so he's got no right to make those comments.

I'm not trying to defend Mourinho or his methods because I don't agree with everything he does or says but you must accept that players speaking out of turn to the press is not good for club and you can't blame Mourinho for keeping him on a short leash. If Pogba had more influence with our fans he'd have probably got him fired by now.

 

[BaseFishing]

Did Hazards performance dip to the point where he was being easily dispossessed against teams like Southampton?

No, you know it didn't. Although he was still pretty awful if I remember correctly. That's what confidence will do to you.

I mean we all know it in our own lives - anyone who's done something creative or a sport knows that sometimes, when you're feeling awful or scrutinized, or are just having a tough time, you can be doing something you've done for years and be completely terrible at it because your head is just not right.

But at the same time, it's also not that relevant that Hazard didn't quite dip to the levels Pogba has in some of his recent games. It's not about what's an acceptable performance from a player - it's about what is acceptable from a manager.

In any other line of work, even if an employee messed up terribly, of course you might look at potentially terminating that employee's contract if you believe this is an issue they will continue to have. But more importantly, if there's been any fault from management for the blunder, or any other blunders, than that's clearly the more important issue to solve. Especially if said management has seen a suspicious amount of similar blunders in their previous jobs.

 

[Jeppers7]

We don't know what happening behind the scenes, there could have been conversations regarding social media usage or even apologies issued, we don't know what was said.

Everyone must recognise that speaking to the press in an interview isn't just talking to a mate or having a casual chat down the pub, everything said is said for a reason, with intent and purpose. Managers use press conferences to motivate players (where and however they see fit) and put pressure on other teams or make a point to someone. So when Pogba comes out and says something along the lines of 'United should attack' he knows exactly what he's saying and he knows exactly who he's putting pressure on. It's a clear attempt to undermine the manager, Pogba isn't in charge of tactics or the team selection so he's got no right to make those comments.

I'm not trying to defend Mourinho or his methods because I don't agree with everything he does or says but you must accept that players speaking out of turn to the press is not good for club and you can't blame Mourinho for keeping him on a short leash. If Pogba had more influence with our fans he'd have probably got him fired by now.

He asked Jose to play exactly like we played on Saturday......I enjoyed the game Saturday more than any I can remember for a long time. Shame he dropped the guy who was right.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

He asked Jose to play exactly like we played on Saturday......I enjoyed the game Saturday more than any I can remember for a long time. Shame he dropped the guy who was right.

And now he'll play him with the statues again so he has his reason for not playing him at Anfield. Top class players must be lining up to come to Manchester...

Oh wait we don't need them as long as we play with the hearts of lions.

 

[Sayros]

I hope he leaves simply to see all the people trashing him on this thread start crying about a lack of creativity and an issue creating dangerous opportunities for the forwards. Some of you have such short memories of how he was dragging this team to results early in the season.

 

[.Rossi]

I hope he leaves simply to see all the people trashing him on this thread start crying about a lack of creativity and an issue creating dangerous opportunities for the forwards. Some of you have such short memories of how he was dragging this team to results early in the season.

As in he moves to Barcelona and gives the ball to Messi?
Or, as in he moves to Juventus and gives the ball to Ronaldo?

 

[.Rossi]

Hopefully this lights a rocket up his arse!

Had high hopes and expectations for the guy...Sunday can be the start.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

man one great half against a fulham side who came out and laid an absolute egg and were trash and now so many are ready to just put full blame on pogba.

 

[.Rossi]

man one great half against a fulham side who came out and laid an absolute egg and were trash and now so many are ready to just put full blame on pogba.

Not me anyways

One decent game against Fulham at home is not enough. Plus, he can be blamed for his own average performances and behaviour in the media but, not for the all of the team's failings

 

[FootyGirl88]

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[PepsiCola]

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Don't let the top reds and closet racists find out!

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

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Oh is that the same one Zander and Ashley and Marouane and Nemanja and Jesse are up for?

 

[haram]

closet racists

 

[OldPop]

In another thread I wrote:

There is no doubt that Pogba is a skilled football player but it is hard to remember what it takes to be there when you have already received so much success. We have seen it before, players who get a bit selfish and comfortable and think they can live only on their talent.

When I think further, I think it was a big accident for him that Zlatan disappeared from MU. He seemed to look up to and respect him, something that Mourinho seems to have failed to do.

Zlatan did not forget that hard work was needed for success, despite wealth and fame and had been a good example for all younger players, not just Pogba.

 

[Giggsyking]

So when Pogba comes out and says something along the lines of 'United should attack' he knows exactly what he's saying and he knows exactly who he's putting pressure on.

How dare Pogba say united should attack!!

 

[RedDevil@84]

Some people can't get off the agenda wagon. It has to be an agenda about everything

 

[Canagel]

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Jose and the Pogba haters are confused . Where's the nomination for Fellaini, Matic and Lukaku?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

he came on a world class fee ffs

I think if any player comes for a world record fee however much it is, that they should consistently give performances which justify a club paying the world record for them.

 

[luke511]

Could Pogba play as a false 9? I'd be intrigued to see him play there.

 

[Steerpike]

Could Pogba play as a false 9? I'd be intrigued to see him play there.

His current role as a real 12 suits him better.

 

[Kostur]

How dare Pogba say united should attack!!

Uhm, how dare Mourinho say Pogba should work his ass off? This was difficult.

Don't bother, it's always racism for him.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Don't let the top reds and closet racists find out!

 

[Canagel]

I hope he leaves simply to see all the people trashing him on this thread start crying about a lack of creativity and an issue creating dangerous opportunities for the forwards. Some of you have such short memories of how he was dragging this team to results early in the season.

They dont agree with you that he was dragging the team to results .that's my problem. They have denied he was our best outfield player first with Shaw and then with Martial which is quite ludicrous. Some of them had hidden agendas and this 'virus' story has given them the perfect ammunition as they couldn't talk whilst Pogba was having top games. Now it's "sell him", "overrated primmadonna", doesnt care about the club, get that guy from lazio bla bla..., . Such a swing cannot happen in the space of two months if there isn't a hidden agenda. They really have shown their true colors

 

[Bwuk]

Could Pogba play as a false 9? I'd be intrigued to see him play there.

No and it’d be an utter waste.

 

[Sayros]

They dont agree with you that he was dragging the team to results .that's my problem. They have denied he was our best outfield player first with Shaw and then with Martial which is quite ludicrous. Some of them had hidden agendas and this 'virus' story has given them the perfect ammunition as they couldn't talk whilst Pogba was having top games. Now it's "sell him", "overrated primmadonna", doesnt care about the club, get that guy from lazio bla bla..., . Such a swing cannot happen in the space of two months if there isn't a hidden agenda. They really have shown their true colors

Well, I'm already used to that from the Martial thread, so I'm not bothered at all. I just find it amusing that the guy has only ever been hinted at being unprofessional by the shepherd and all the sheeps here are eating it up and regurgitating nonsense. You have to laugh at it.

 

[haram]

They dont agree with you that he was dragging the team to results .that's my problem. They have denied he was our best outfield player first with Shaw and then with Martial which is quite ludicrous. Some of them had hidden agendas and this 'virus' story has given them the perfect ammunition as they couldn't talk whilst Pogba was having top games. Now it's "sell him", "overrated primmadonna", doesnt care about the club, get that guy from lazio bla bla..., . Such a swing cannot happen in the space of two months if there isn't a hidden agenda. They really have shown their true colors

We can say the same thing about Lukaku. I do not want Pogba sold but I have not been shitting on Lukaku either. Wonder how many people trying to defend Pogba are shitting on Rom every chance they get.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Pogba - great potential, wealth of talent , needs to check his ego in order for Man United to be a successful club

Mourinho - one of the most winning managers despite being the dark lord of football, is the Antichrist to Pep who might otherwise win 10 league titles in a row (klopp = clown pretendor in Mancunian). Could do with checking his ego to help Man United be as successful as possible .

My God wouldn't it be great if these two had the relationship that Jose has had with Ibra, Terry or any other of his 'generals' ? It would genuinely set us up to be successful under Mourinho. Because that's the issue now - how do we make the most of the manager we have. It's not by playing half arsed. If that's not the route to go, then we should be asking how can we build a team around Pogba to make this team win everything. But frankly Pogba has never been one to win things on his own. He, as even the most ardent support admit, need a particular quality and strategy around him before he puts in mediocre performances let alone great ones .

Til the kid wins games I have no qualms with the bench and him genuinely earning his place in the lineup. Martial has done head and shoulders more than him for the club and yet has bared thru all of Jose's idiosyncrasies to earn his starting place of late. Pogba should take a lesson from the millennials le sulk.

 

[crossy1686]

He asked Jose to play exactly like we played on Saturday......I enjoyed the game Saturday more than any I can remember for a long time. Shame he dropped the guy who was right.

Really? You think Jose Mourinho has started taking tactic advice from Paul Pogba? Could it just be that we actually looked like a team because our biggest negative influence wasn't playing?

 

[crossy1686]

How dare Pogba say united should attack!!

Sack Jose, Pogba in as player manager, the guy is clearly a tactical genius.

 

[kouroux]

Really? You think Jose Mourinho has started taking tactic advice from Paul Pogba? Could it just be that we actually looked like a team because our biggest negative influence wasn't playing?

Playing against a terrible team helped more than anything else.

 

[Jeppers7]

Really? You think Jose Mourinho has started taking tactic advice from Paul Pogba? Could it just be that we actually looked like a team because our biggest negative influence wasn't playing?

No I don't....I think Jose played that way to make it appear we are better without Pogba. This was a game against bottom of the table but I've not seen Jose so determined on the sideline all season to get his message accross. He was physically pushing the back four higher to squeeze the game. Worked a treat. Contrast Jose on Saturday and against Arsenal against the Jose slumped on his bench vs Southampton and I have to wonder, what's changed ? What's his motivation currently ?

Pogba said we'd be better if we got on the front foot and attacked from the off at home. It was only one game against terrible opposition but it's the best we've looked for ages.

Anyone that thinks Pogba is our biggest negative influence on the football pitch has serious levels of delusion.

 

[crossy1686]

No I don't....I think Jose played that way to make it appear we are better without Pogba. This was a game against bottom of the table but I've not seen Jose so determined on the sideline all season to get his message accross. He was physically pushing the back four higher to squeeze the game. Worked a treat. Contrast Jose on Saturday and against Arsenal against the Jose slumped on his bench vs Southampton and I have to wonder, what's changed ? What's his motivation currently ?

Pogba said we'd be better if we got on the front foot and attacked from the off at home. It was only one game against terrible opposition but it's the best we've looked for ages.

Anyone that thinks Pogba is our biggest negative influence on the football pitch has serious levels of delusion.

I seriously doubt Jose would purposely want to us to look bad when Pogba plays just to prove a point. I'm sure he'd rather us win every game and then he could talk about his genius instead.

Pogba hasn't been pulling his weight for a while now, along with other players of course. Jose felt the need to single him out in the dressing room, could have been because he's capable of way more than losing possession on the edge of his own area and keeping the ball for far too long.

I don't think there is an agenda as you're suggesting. We looked like a team at the weekend and that's the first time we've looked like a cohesive unit this season, and we did it without our sulkiest French players, albeit them being apparently our best players. Makes you question whether or not selling them and reinvesting in players with the correct mentality would actually be the best option.

 

[In Rainbows]

I seriously doubt Jose would purposely want to us to look bad when Pogba plays just to prove a point. I'm sure he'd rather us win every game and then he could talk about his genius instead.

Pogba hasn't been pulling his weight for a while now, along with other players of course. Jose felt the need to single him out in the dressing room, could have been because he's capable of way more than losing possession on the edge of his own area and keeping the ball for far too long.

I don't think there is an agenda as you're suggesting. We looked like a team at the weekend and that's the first time we've looked like a cohesive unit this season, and we did it without our sulkiest French players, albeit them being apparently our best players. Makes you question whether or not selling them and reinvesting in players with the correct mentality would actually be the best option.

What a coincidence huh? If only Derby didn't happen. Wonder how we looked as a team then seeing as Pogba didn't play.