Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
I'm sure parliament is very popular with Brexiters at the moment. They have control but don't know what to do with it.
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Well I was obviously wrong to have hoped that the indicative vote process might get to a solution. To say that I am angry as well as disappointed is an understatement.

To be fair you have always said that there is no solution save for either revocation of A50 or leaving with no deal which isn't a solution.

I have also been against a second referendum and still am.
Our only real option is for MP'S to vote for the WA and then attempt to mitigate the Backstop issue during the future relationship negotiations.

If this carries on I think I will become a monk.
 
Buster15 said:
Well I was obviously wrong to have hoped that the indicative vote process might get to a solution. To say that I am angry as well as disappointed is an understatement.

To be fair you have always said that there is no solution save for either revocation of A50 or leaving with no deal which isn't a solution.

I have also been against a second referendum and still am.
Our only real option is for MP'S to vote for the WA and then attempt to mitigate the Backstop issue during the future relationship negotiations.

If this carries on I think I will become a monk.
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True, IMO from the moment that A50 was accepted, there was only two options Revoke A50 and remain, or Leave with no deal, both are solutions, neither preferable to large swathes of the population, but in a binary situation its inevitable as the MPs have just proved.
 
Maticmaker said:
What about the passing of the controversial Industrial Relations Act 1971.?
I went on the 'kill the bill march' but just like the one at weekend, it did no good 'Black Jack' Donaldson QC was appointed.
The 'will of the people' has never been carried out in the UK and won't be this time... if it is it will be the first time!
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No quite old enough to.remember that one well. I was 10 when we had the 3 day week which I.do remember well.
 
Wibble said:
No quite old enough to.remember that one well. I was 10 when we had the 3 day week which I.do remember well.
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You're still just a kid then ;) wet behind the ears!

Wait until you can relate all this nonsense to your grandchildren, "I was there" will have a whole new meaning... eyes back on Westminster now for next instalment of "Magic roundabout"
 
devilish said:
We aren't the ones who voted for a change in the agreement already in place. Surely we can't keep carrying the Brits until they make their minds up or drag us into the chaos they are already in

If Ireland wants that then they might consider leaving the EU as well and keep haggling with them forever
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We aren't talking about how to parent a spoiled child - insert Westminster joke here -. Anyone with a tiny bit of history knows a border between the south and north of Ireland would be incredibly dangerous and would lead to violence. Just because Brexit is stupid doesn't mean you should force a border on one of your member states.


devilish said:
If Ireland wants that then they might consider leaving the EU as well and keep haggling with them forever
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Nah.
 
Buster15 said:
Well I was obviously wrong to have hoped that the indicative vote process might get to a solution. To say that I am angry as well as disappointed is an understatement.

To be fair you have always said that there is no solution save for either revocation of A50 or leaving with no deal which isn't a solution.

I have also been against a second referendum and still am.
Our only real option is for MP'S to vote for the WA and then attempt to mitigate the Backstop issue during the future relationship negotiations.

If this carries on I think I will become a monk.
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Dont give up, maybe by Monday some consensus will form. Listening to the Brexitcast it sounds like the Indicative votes were always expected to be a process not a one shot kill (so to speak).

Its the hope that hurts the most!
 
Sweet Square said:
We aren't talking about how to parent a spoiled child - insert Westminster joke here -. Anyone with a tiny bit of history knows a border between the south and north of Ireland would be incredibly dangerous and would lead to violence. Just because Brexit is stupid doesn't mean you should force a border on one of your member states.



Nah.
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The UK decided to leave the EU not viceversa. It tried to negotiate a deal which respected the UK multiple red lines and the GFA to no avail. At one point (and pretty soon) this problem must be solved as we can't allow the continent to be dragged by this problem forever. Now either the UK cancels Brexit or it accepts the WA or it goes to a no deal Brexit. It only takes 1 EU country to vote against yet another extension and patience is running thin.
 
devilish said:
The UK decided to leave the EU not viceversa. It tried to negotiate a deal which respected the UK multiple red lines and the GFA to no avail. At one point (and pretty soon) this problem must be solved as we can't allow the continent to be dragged by this problem forever. Now either the UK cancels Brexit or it accepts the WA or it goes to a no deal Brexit. It only takes 1 EU country to vote against yet another extension and patience is running thin.
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You've just described what is happening, not why you think its a good idea.

Your original post

devilish said:
I hope the EU won't extend past April. Us Europeans shouldn't be dragged in this UK made farce any longer
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Sweet Square said:
You've just described what is happening, not why you think its a good idea.

Your original post
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I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem forever. It's unfair on an entire continent that deserves to move on rather then keep being linked to the hip with an unreliable partner who secretly wants the EU to collapse

I also believe that once reality start biting the spirit of Dunkirk will kick in and the UK will be rowing back to safety (in the EU) Which means a no deal Brexit will be short lived

There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
 
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GloryHunter07 said:
Dont give up, maybe by Monday some consensus will form. Listening to the Brexitcast it sounds like the Indicative votes were always expected to be a process not a one shot kill (so to speak).
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If they have any sense, they will coalesce around a customs union (possibly with a confirmatory referendum).

Do they actually have any sense, though?
 
That ‘Still M.A.Y’ featuring Snoop Mogg video is still the best thing to come out of this whole debacle.
 
The only possible positive to come out of all this mess (and I’m really clutching here) is it hopefully further brings to light what utter, self-serving charlatan scumbags the Tories are. Gambling the country’s future, prosperity and unity just so they laminate their LinkedIn profiles. As strong and stable as a feckin paper mache nuclear tripod.
 
devilish said:
I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem any longer.
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The alternative is a possible return to the troubles. Okay your not Irish so you don't give a shit but for people who do, a return to violence in Ireland(Not to forget there will be a increased chance of bombing happening in England)is a lot worse that EU diplomats have to engage with British politicians.

devilish said:
It's unfair on the entire continent.
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Again Ireland is a member state

Also how ? Granted I can't speak for the whole of Europe but I don't anyone gives a shit. There was a poll not to long ago that showed 20% of people in France thought Brexit had already happened. Plus we are only at the 1st step of negations, Brexit will be going for a very long time.


devilish said:
There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
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This is just stupid.
 
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On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?

It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.

We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
 
spiriticon said:
On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?

It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.

We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
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Personally I blame the lying scum that duped people into believing a fairy tale Brexit.
 
spiriticon said:
On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?

It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.

We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
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Because the EU have already stated that a revocation of Article 50 will allow for a unilateral return to the UK’s relationship with the EU pre-Article 50 invocation.

Edit: what territory have we given up for the EU?
 
spiriticon said:
On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?

It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.

We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
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Because that was legally confirmed over a year ago, revoking A50 will put us back on the same terms.
 
spiriticon said:
On another point of note, if we vote to Remain, how can we be sure that we will have the exact same relationship as before and the EU won't try to fleece us in the coming years?

It would be absolutely ridiculous if they asked more money/territory from us and we 'pretended to leave' yet again.

We are really in an awful political situation thanks to the no-hopers in Parliament.
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It's been determined that revoking Article 50 comes with no strings attached - that the UK is guaranteed by law to maintain the exact legal, economic and political relationship it had before. Since any future changes would have to be agreed to and ratified by the UK it's fair to presume that fleecing would be off the table.
 
Raab's latest statement is claiming now is the time for realism and pragmatism so we should go back to the EU and ask them to change the backstop.

Man is a grade A idiot :lol:
 
Smores said:
Because that was legally confirmed over a year ago, revoking A50 will put us back on the same terms.
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Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?

Can we be sure the EU won't try anything funny in the next set of negotiations for continuing membership?

Because we sure as hell can't play the 'leave' card again in a few years. That would be internationally embarrassing, as if the whole thing wasn't already bad enough
 
Smores said:
Raab's latest statement is claiming now is the time for realism and pragmatism so we should go back to the EU and ask them to change the backstop.

Man is a grade A idiot :lol:
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‘Hold on... we’re a fecking island!’
 
spiriticon said:
Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?

Can we be sure the EU won't try anything funny in the next set of negotiations for continuing membership?

Because we sure as hell can't play the 'leave' card again in a few years. That would be internationally embarrassing, as if the whole thing wasn't already bad enough
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It’s for as long as we remain in the EU and have a right to our veto.
 
spiriticon said:
Is that a forever thing, or is it just for a few months? Do these legal assurances have a long timeframe to them?

Can we be sure the EU won't try anything funny in the next set of negotiations for continuing membership?

Because we sure as hell can't play the 'leave' card again in a few years. That would be internationally embarrassing, as if the whole thing wasn't already bad enough
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Well apart from the fact there's a legal framework that covers these things, I have to ask; Where does the suspicion come from? When did the EU feck us over or treat us like enemies that makes you think they'll do it now? Where does this deep rooted suspsicion come from?
 
MadMike said:
Well apart from the fact there's a legal framework that covers these things, I have to ask; Where does the suspicion come from? When did the EU feck us over or treat us like enemies that makes you think they'll do it now? Where does this deep rooted suspsicion come from?
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20-30 years of the British press making things up about the EU.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Dont give up, maybe by Monday some consensus will form. Listening to the Brexitcast it sounds like the Indicative votes were always expected to be a process not a one shot kill (so to speak).

Its the hope that hurts the most!
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It is. Could not have put it better myself. Keep hoping eh.
 
Leadsom is supposed to represent the house as well as the government but yet again we have her playing silly bollocks and refusing to answer simple questions she clearly knows the answer to.

If it's pending discussions just tell the house that rather than this deceit. Heck the country deserves to know never mind the house.
 
'Tomorrow’s vote will not be the third meaningful vote, Downing Street sources are saying. But they have not commented on suggestions that it might be a vote on the withdrawal agreement on its own.'
 
So what about a resolution combining Clarke's customs union and a confirmatory vote? Might snare the snp, lib dems and independent group.
 
Buster15 said:
Well I was obviously wrong to have hoped that the indicative vote process might get to a solution. To say that I am angry as well as disappointed is an understatement.

To be fair you have always said that there is no solution save for either revocation of A50 or leaving with no deal which isn't a solution.

I have also been against a second referendum and still am.
Our only real option is for MP'S to vote for the WA and then attempt to mitigate the Backstop issue during the future relationship negotiations.

If this carries on I think I will become a monk.
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Even before the list of amendments were listed I couldn't see parliament agreeing on anything.
When I saw the list any hope was dashed totally.

So the farce still carries on and maybe the top three will be voted on again on Monday.
I wish people would think things through because they've had three years to do so.

1. A/The Customs Union, firstly is so vague and secondly doesn't solve by itself any problems. In fact it creates even more.
2. Confirmatory vote - which is confirmation of May's deal or not - possibly if stretched could end up with referendum - but then only Remain solves the problem.
3. Corbyn's unicorns - rejected three times and not even worth considering as is impossible.

Other than that we have May's deal confirmed in parliament or no deal or sensibly cancel the whole charade.

That's it.

And at the end of it May could leave and some other idiot will replace her.

Depressing.
 
This government is completely untrustworthy. Even at this stage, they're considering chicanery that would likely be deemed illegal.
 
devilish said:
I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem forever. It's unfair on an entire continent that deserves to move on rather then keep being linked to the hip with an unreliable partner who secretly wants the EU to collapse

I also believe that once reality start biting the spirit of Dunkirk will kick in and the UK will be rowing back to safety (in the EU) Which means a no deal Brexit will be short lived

There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
Click to expand...

The notion that Ireland would have to choose between being in the EU and the GFA is nonsense of such a high order that even most Brexiters don't try to put it forward as an argument. There is zero chance that happens, as well as zero reason why it should.
 
MadMike said:
Well apart from the fact there's a legal framework that covers these things, I have to ask; Where does the suspicion come from? When did the EU feck us over or treat us like enemies that makes you think they'll do it now? Where does this deep rooted suspsicion come from?
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If the legal framework has a long timeframe, then revocation might not be so bad.

Let's face it, politics is all about concessions. The EU wants more from us, we want more back from them. It's normal. Our issue is that we do not fully align with the EU rules as France, Germany do. We have a 'special agreement' with them and AFAIK it was getting difficult to maintain the same terms during negotiations, hence it lead to Cameron playing the referendum card in 2016

The EU might back down for now, but we need legal assurances they won't push us for more long into the future because we really can't do this again. This fiasco is just embarrassing.
 
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