If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?

[Denis79]

Van Gaal should have been sacked. But he took us from 7th into the CL places, had better success with signings (Herrera, Shaw, Blind, Romero, Martial are better than most of Mourinho’s outlay - while we recouped the Schniderlin and Di Maria money). Lowered our wage bill and won the FA Cup. He left us in a good place to build upon.

And then out of the CL places and had us play the most boring football I've ever seen United play. I'm glad we're rid of him and the narcissist that came after.

 

[edgar allan]

You know Solsjaer's struggles could very well be that he is a worse manager than Mourinho. The squad may be low on talent but they aren't downing tools. Also Solsjkaer like Jose is digging his own grave with his loyalty to dross. Ole's favourites (Young, Jones, Rashford, Lingard) are an even worse batch collectively than Jose's favourites (Lukaku, Matic, Young, Fellaini) were last season

Once Ole has spent 500 million we will have a fair comparison

 

[Kostov]

No. We wouldn't have, just like how we didn't challenge last season when he was backed.

He was backed yeah, with 178m while City backed Guardiola with 285m (together with the January window). If you expected that team to compete with City's considering in how much better state they were even before the two managers begun with work is laughable.

 

[edgar allan]

If he was completely backed, he would be a success. The perfect like for like example would be Simeone I guess. We all know that with the right players, Jose can get results.

Pity he didn't buy any of the right players for us though.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Once Ole has spent 500 million we will have a fair comparison

THIS.

I have a lot of respect for Mourinho, enough that you might even call me brainwashed or whatever. The man is a football managerial legend any way you slice it for me and he was correct about a lot of things wrong with our club. But he didn't fit the club in the way we needed. This goes beyond the fallout with players and board. I'm talking soulmate level connection. If we let Jose have his way in entirety, we would likely be challenging for everything. On the field success a plenty, but there would still be something missing. What I loved about United's greatest wins for example was that pragmatic grinding out results was not our norm. We were swashbucklers reckless to a dangerous level at times. It's why we didn't win in Europe more. But that's not what Jose brings. His last league title with Chelsea for example I recall how dull it was. In fact there were few occasions in the season when pundits put that team in focus. Eyes were on the more exciting contenders. And that's how any win under Jose would have been. Dull and pragmatic because that's his expertise and how he betters coaches that play the opposite way.

Ole might have the soul factor but he needs time and money before we can evaluate if he can bring success together with it.

 

[shamans]

I'm curious about this concept.

There are obviously targets that are the manager's ones.. and targets that are scouting efforts. For example Di Maria - was he proposed to LVG who then said "yeah, OK then" or did LVG go out of his way and say "go for this guy for me" like he must have done with Schweinstiger?

With Jose for example, take Bailey and Lindelof as examples. He went out of his way to say he knew Lindelof particularly well and knew his mentality when he signed him. Whereas Bailey could have been a scouting effort?

I'm unsure but I struggle to believe the concept that LVG and Jose both failed in the transfer market here because of their own mis-judgement alone. Rather I feel they must have overestimated the quality of our convoluted scouting set up which is beyond shite.

Particularly Jose who made so many terrific gem purchases over his career at every single club and suddenly fails here. It doesn't really add up.

Plenty of times he used to say he has the players and the squad and we can compete for the CL with this lot. He had final say. No transfers were forced on him.

 

[Wumminator]

Jose made gem purchases throughout his whole career? What? His whole career was expensive and full of flops.

 

[VP89]

Plenty of times he used to say he has the players and the squad and we can compete for the CL with this lot. He had final say. No transfers were forced on him.

What managers say isn't what they would actually believe though.

Pep was always bigging up his players, even ones he wanted to sell. Ole is likely doing the same right now. Sure Jose is the one who changes his mood when shit hits the fan, which is why everyone calls him out on it but we can't go by press conference interviews as accurate assessments of the actual transfer dealings behind the scene.

 

[VP89]

Jose made gem purchases throughout his whole career? What? His whole career was expensive and full of flops.

First stint at Chelsea:

Drogba
Carvalho
Robben
Cech
Essein

^ All examples of players that were vital to Chelsea's success.

Inter:

Milito
Sneijder
Eto'o
Lucio

^ All examples of gems vital to Inter's success

Real Madrid *
Luka Modric
Di Maria
Varane

^ examples of Real Madrid gems. Although Real's strategy is more Perez pressing buttons than anything else.

Chelsea second stint:

Costa
Fabregas
Matic
Pedro
Wilian

^ examples vital to his initial success for Chelsea.


I get there is a lot to beat Jose with. We can talk about the great talent he's misjudged and sold too. But lets not pretend he hasn't got acquired great players over his career. Weirdly that stopped with us. It was underwhelming under LVG too. Go figure?

 

[shamans]

What managers say isn't what they would actually believe though.

Pep was always bigging up his players, even ones he wanted to sell. Ole is likely doing the same right now. Sure Jose is the one who changes his mood when shit hits the fan, which is why everyone calls him out on it but we can't go by press conference interviews as accurate assessments of the actual transfer dealings behind the scene.

But what can we go by then. If he wasnt getting his players why didnt he quit after the first season?

 

[JPRouve]

The problem for me is that I am biased, I didn't think that he was going to be a success beyond the second season. To me he was at best going to win a cup and maybe the league once and then leave us while kicking and screaming.

 

[Enigma_87]

Once Ole has spent 500 million we will have a fair comparison

Sure when Ole wins couple of CL’s and numerous other domestic titles in top leagues he can apply for a 300m kitty. It goes both ways.

 

[Ali Dia]

His targets would’ve had us in a worse place we’re in right now.
We would’ve had a bunch of 30 something players on high wages and would’ve become a post-mourinho Inter.

Willian, Perisic and Maguire were a horrific list of targets and I’m glad he wasn’t backed.
The would’ve made no difference against City and Liverpool.
We would’ve made the top 4 this year, and that’s about that.

But wouldn’t that at least have kept us in the conversation while we slowly rebuild then with right younger players behind the scenes and less pressure on the youngsters to deliver straight away? We need a total rebuild now and it just seems like way too much work for one year. He was trying to sign creative players in their peak that are hitting the numbers and a defender that can pass through to midfield all areas we are still seriously lacking in. I didn’t like the suggested names either (but they are effective players) maybe in hindsight he was right in that we couldn’t trust rash and Martial to get us CL football over the course of a season and that pogba is a bit of a bad egg in the dressing room.

Saying all that I’d have fired him after the Seville game for his comments. That was it for me.

 

[VP89]

But what can we go by then. If he wasnt getting his players why didnt he quit after the first season?

We can go by the fact that we've had 7 seasons of unsuccessful summers under varied managers adopting different approaches.

On hindsight, he probably thought he should quit. But then again he just finished 2nd and thought feck it, I fancy the challenge + worst case scenario is a big payout?

 

[JMack1234]

No.

Just look at his career. He's never ever had long term success at one club.

Lets not get into Jose based what aboutery

 

[VeevaVee]

No way Jose

 

[shamans]

We can go by the fact that we've had 7 seasons of unsuccessful summers under varied managers adopting different approaches.

On hindsight, he probably thought he should quit. But then again he just finished 2nd and thought feck it, I fancy the challenge + worst case scenario is a big payout?

They've all had terrible transfer picks apart from the odd quality here and there.

Honestly Mourinho and Van Gaal had the worst.

 

[roonster09]

He was backed yeah, with 178m while City backed Guardiola with 285m (together with the January window). If you expected that team to compete with City's considering in how much better state they were even before the two managers begun with work is laughable.

Compare how much money Klopp spent and how much Jose spent. Now compare the teams and progression.

One is one of the most feared team in Europe and other was laughing stock.

 

[VP89]

They've all had terrible transfer picks apart from the odd quality here and there.

Honestly Mourinho and Van Gaal had the worst.

But what makes you say they are all their picks?

They undoubtedly have a scouting network which they rely on and sign off on. I think one major problem, regardless of who is manager, is that our scouts are shite and we have put too much faith in them. They are seriously bad.

 

[MoskvaRed]

No - Mourinho’s methods don’t work at elite level in 2019/2019 and the fact he correctly analysed some of the problems at United does not alter that fact.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Lets not forget that hoofing it to Fellaini was also one of his 'ideologies'. Maybe if we bought all those 30 year olds he wanted, we'd be sitting comfortably at 3rd right now. Still doubt we'd be challenging what, 97 pts needed to catch the leaders this year.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Yes. Anything else, is just bitterness.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

A no brainer question. Of course it would. It has done so at every club it has been unstintingly backed.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I don't think Mourinho had much chance of been success here considering who he is and the situation at the club.

• He is very disruptive, picks a lot of fights its hard to stay one place when you work like that. Theirs a reason he never lasts more then 3 years. This gives him a very short period in which he has a chance of been sucessful before people just get sick of his crap.
• He likes to work with experienced players, that gives his team a very short shelf life you bring in a lot of signings 27+ and you are gonna have to renew your squad every 3/4 years thats very expensive and not practical and again gives you a very short period in which he can be successful.

You put those two things together and then look at the circumstances in which he took over. LVG had left us with a young inexperienced team that needed patience and coaching, that is the exact opposite of what Mourinho wants. Mourinho also came in after the mess at Chelsea in basically in 3rd season Mourinho mode, where he was picking fights right left and centre.

So you had a manager who had to turn over squad to be more of an age he liked, while acting like a complete grumpy sh!t and playing football most of us fans utterly despised.

Mourinho was the wrong manager at the wrong time at the wrong club.

 

[wub1234]

Mourinho hasn't done consistently well at any club since Inter Milan, and has left all three of the clubs he has managed since then in worse shape than they were when he joined them.

 

[edgar allan]

Sure when Ole wins couple of CL’s and numerous other domestic titles in top leagues he can apply for a 300m kitty. It goes both ways.

300 million won't put right the mess Jose left

 

[Wumminator]

First stint at Chelsea:

Drogba
Carvalho
Robben
Cech
Essein

^ All examples of players that were vital to Chelsea's success.

Inter:

Milito
Sneijder
Eto'o
Lucio

^ All examples of gems vital to Inter's success

Real Madrid *
Luka Modric
Di Maria
Varane

^ examples of Real Madrid gems. Although Real's strategy is more Perez pressing buttons than anything else.

Chelsea second stint:

Costa
Fabregas
Matic
Pedro
Wilian

^ examples vital to his initial success for Chelsea.


I get there is a lot to beat Jose with. We can talk about the great talent he's misjudged and sold too. But lets not pretend he hasn't got acquired great players over his career. Weirdly that stopped with us. It was underwhelming under LVG too. Go figure?

Cech and Robben were already signed for Chelsea.

Etoo had nothing to do with him. Milito was a former top scorer.

Varane had nothing to do with Mourinho. Modric won flop of the year when Mourinho was actually at Madrid.

Pedro wasn’t very good.

Mourinho at one point had made about six years worth of signings who had been voted the countries worst signing.

Queresma, Crespo, Schevchenko, Veron, Bailly, Fred, Cuardardo, Bhoularouz, Sanchez, Modric (again voted worst signing under Jose), Rhamen, Jarosic, Mikhitaryan.

In the list of his best ever signings you have players like Robben and Cech who were already signed. Former top scorers in the leagues and players like Etoo and Fabregas who needed no scouting whatsoever.

His whole career he has basically lived off being the manager who spends the most in the league. He gets the most out of a squad in the second season and then leaves when it all comes crashing down. His best players have all been players he inherited, signings has never and will never be a strength of his. You can tell that because he leaves squad in a worst state than when he starts.

 

[Kostov]

Compare how much money Klopp spent and how much Jose spent. Now compare the teams and progression.

One is one of the most feared team in Europe and other was laughing stock.

Klopp was backed last summer despite not winning anything. We finished 2nd gave the manager a new contract mid season and then decided he’s not the guy to move forward.

Yeah I’m sure Liverpool spent less in the time they were both here but they have a much better management than us on every level.

 

[Wumminator]

Why when looking at Mourinho’s tenure and him being backed do we not mention wages? Under Mourinho our highest earner (Rooney left) and we increased our wage bill by roughly 80 million. That is massive and has left the club fecked going forward.

 

[Enigma_87]

300 million won't put right the mess Jose left

Giving it to Ole without any structure in place - DoF etc will create even bigger one

 

[Wumminator]

Klopp was backed last summer despite not winning anything. We finished 2nd gave the manager a new contract mid season and then decided he’s not the guy to move forward.

Yeah I’m sure Liverpool spent less in the time they were both here but they have a much better management than us on every level.

You can not just pick out one transfer window and say “Jose wasn’t backed”. Even in a year where we say “Jose wasn’t backed” he made 75 million quids worth of signings. He tried to buy absolutely TERRIBLE players and also had a player who broke our wage structure to add to the squad.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Why when looking at Mourinho’s tenure and him being backed do we not mention wages? Under Mourinho our highest earner (Rooney left) and we increased our wage bill by roughly 80 million. That is massive and has left the club fecked going forward.

Maybe because wages had nothing to do with him? Rooney was given a feck ton of cash by woody, and he’s done the same again and again. Woody is the cause of our financial idiocy.

 

[Wumminator]

Maybe because wages had nothing to do with him? Rooney was given a feck ton of cash by woody, and he’s done the same again and again. Woody is the cause of our financial idiocy.

Wages were nothing to do with him? Signing Sanchez, Bailly, Fred and Matic was not on him?

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Wages were nothing to do with him? Signing Sanchez, Bailly, Fred and Matic was not on him?

Seriously, stop it.

 

[Varun]

Yes, in the championship.

 

[Wumminator]

Seriously, stop it.

What do you mean stop it? The man has wasted literally almost half a billion quid and sent us challenging for midtable. He was backed more than any other United manager and took us backwards. It’s horrendous.

 

[hn4manunited]

I truly believe if we backed any manager (especially a manager who has shown to know how to win) on the back of finishing 2nd, refreshing the squad, adding what the manager wants, we would see a very different season compared to how we started out this season.

 

[K13]

I think players need to be handled differently to when he was at his peak. He managed players with flair brilliantly - such as wide men - Duff & J Cole and then at Inter Sneijder. I use to enjoy watching both these teams play.

Back then his players responded well to his criticism because it was softened with a positive.

He has only really had one great team per club up to 2010 - rebuilding did not seem to be something that interested him.

I personally think the Real Madrid experience changed him. Perhaps a sobering experience for someone who regarded himself as untouchable.

Afterwards everything he said or did seemed to be laced with spite. I found him quite draining by the end.

 

[Kostov]

You can not just pick out one transfer window and say “Jose wasn’t backed”. Even in a year where we say “Jose wasn’t backed” he made 75 million quids worth of signings. He tried to buy absolutely TERRIBLE players and also had a player who broke our wage structure to add to the squad.

Are you having a laugh? 75m worth of signings? You have Wolves coming in into the Pl and spending 100m+ and Everton doing that every other summer. And last time I checked Jose was not negotiating contracts with players, instead we have a bellend in charge who brags about how rich we are, and players and clubs are constantly ripping us open. Jose did not force Woodward to spend 52m on Fred. Just like he vetoed buying a CB he could have gone for another player or no player at all. Instead he paid 52m for Fred.

 

[Stactix]

You can not just pick out one transfer window and say “Jose wasn’t backed”. Even in a year where we say “Jose wasn’t backed” he made 75 million quids worth of signings. He tried to buy absolutely TERRIBLE players and also had a player who broke our wage structure to add to the squad.

Unfortunately Jose revisionism is back with passion thought we got past it, nope.
Doesn't matter how much of a cnut he was, Jose is the best. Despite sabotaging our season. if he was backed, BESTEST JOSE BEST.

Hoof it to Fellani was all Jose could come up with.