Few complaining haven't considered that Martinez also won few headers without giving attackers chance to compete which means it doesn't count as duel.
He has won more than 5 headers but for stats only 5 counts.
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He has won more than 5 headers but for stats only 5 counts.
I like him every passing match more and more. Top performance with a few shaky bits but I feel he is getting to know the opponents still and will be even better once he gains some experience from the league.
Just needs his milk and good tuck in right before he goes to sleep.
I'm sure he grows up into a solid center back in no time.
Hopefully he'll be more serious on taking football as a career, instead of just pretending as Vidic or Ramos.
Just like that pretty good guitarist kid, pretending he's some sort of Ritchie Blackmore or Eric Clapton.
Or they might lose it. You'd think United fans would know from playing with a team of Lukaku, Fellaini, Maguire and McTominay together and barely scoring set pieces - being taller doesnt mean winning the ball most of the time. The amount of times we whacked the ball up towards Fellaini and he's half a foot taller than other players and he didnt win the ball should tell you that. He did however cause panic and won some. But that would also be the case if he was 6 inches shorter and was better at timing his jump
We just had the tallest team in the premier league and couldnt score set pieces and werent a big threat in the air. How is it possible that our fans make an argument that taller = wins the ball
Has he lost an aerial dual yet?
Yes!!!
Not sure it matters much. He’s been doing very well, but people can watch him get pushed about all month and if at the end, the ‘arial duel’ stat says 100%, that will be all that matters. Again, he’s done fantastically well, but if Opta didn’t exist, people would have been concerned about how he was easily nudged aside by Adams to enable him to get a shot off. Turns out, it didn’t count as an arial duel and seemingly doesn’t fit into any metric, so can be deleted and overlooked completely.
No matter which way anyone wants to look at it, it cannot be dismissed as a disadvantage that an opponent is taller and stronger than him, especially when considering arial attacks. Thankfully, he has several other qualities, and the average PL centre forward is probably the same height as him anyway these days. That said, I wouldn’t get too caught up on the arial duel thing. If any tweet produces a number which suggests he’s been 100% dominant with the ball above the ground, anyone who has watched the games can tell that is obviously misleading to a degree. It would be better if he were 6ft, let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be. It’s unlikely Ben Mee scores against us if he were Maguire, for instance.
With Martinez, I think the more we progress as a team, the less relevant his physical limitations will be. We need to play in the right areas more often, in the opponent’s half, away from out goal and predominantly in possession. Then you will really see the best of him. Barcelona in their prime would not have suffered against Stoke because Stoke would only get near their box 3 times a game. Their arial advantage is almost irrelevant on the halfway line, as they would struggle to engineer any second ball into a foray into the box from there. The whole team has a responsibility to protect the defence, and it starts with how we keep the ball ourselves. Height isn’t THAT important, not because it is irrelevant whether or not defenders are smaller than opponents, but because most of the defending that needs to be done doesn’t rely upon those gifts. But on the occasions they do, it can of course become a problem. People are talking as if there is no difference between Martinez and Maguire in the air because some tweets say the right things though, which is of course untrue if you watch a game of football.
Lifts the team. He’ll be captain at one point if he keeps it up.
he does seem to give the team an aura of strength compared to maguires nervousness.
It’s hard to put a finger on what’s so different but I think he’s been playing with so much tension/nervous energy it spreads through out the team. Nobody could take him seriously as the captain like that either.
A lot have been saying both. Trust me mate, you're not unique in that view that he is someone that doesn't like to engage/defend. Check any old performance threads.
If it was Lindelof, trust me the comments would be different. Criticising Martinez for being slow on the ball? Madness. If Lindelof had this game, his Swede counterparts would be raving all over like he's the second coming.
Their forwards were pressing and blocking any central lanes, our CMs were marked and they were baiting us to pass out high and wide to our full backs. Holding onto the ball wasn't due to being slow, it's as you said, there wasn't any obvious or good risk-to-reward passes.
I actually thought Adams managed to bully and get the better of him on a few occasions. That aside, I thought he played well and, as others have said above, he seems to lift those around him. Good partnership with Varane. Feels like a proper centre back partnership for the first time since Rio and Vidic.
It has to do with language as well. It is pretty good when both CBs and the keeper can speak the same language fast and fluent.
No Martinez misjudged the ball and allowed Adams to control it. Varane saw that and cane across to cover for him.
Yes this shot was not a real problem. It's just a handy example to show Martinez's aerial weakness. The point is he keeps backing off and giving up contests in aerial duels which allow opponents to control long balls easily, and the "5/5 aerial duels" is delusive.
More need to be said about THAT tackle, that left Adam flapping on the floor like fish out of water .
I wouldn’t start measuring the armband for Lisandro just yet. (Yes, I realize they stretch.). He’s a fantastic addition to the backline, perhaps for years to come. But he looks like a footballer who just wants to do whatever it takes to win. The politics and responsibilities of being a captain should fall on someone else.
Brilliant performance today. Easily MOTM. Hopefully Harry is taking notes on how it’s done.
Brilliant performance today. Easily MOTM. Hopefully Harry is taking notes on how it’s done.
What a warrior, what a leader, and top notch ball playing too.
I have been crying out loud about wanting intelligent and aggressive CB who goes towards the ball and not afraid to put challenge against the opposition players. This guy is the man!! Not some softie Lindelof who only ball watching and tends to hide.
I have been crying out loud about wanting intelligent and aggressive CB who goes towards the ball and not afraid to put challenge against the opposition players. This guy is the man!! Not some softie Lindelof who only ball watching and tends to hide.
Can't wait for the same pundits who have been pushing this baseless narrative that Martinez gets dominated in the air to start coming out with the "It's a great turnaround after the way he started" themes after a few more strong performances from him. In the same way David De Gea apparently had a "horrendous" first season before becoming "the best goalkeeper in the world" in his second season, as Gary Neville said the other day, neither of which actually happened.
I don't see how this post is relevant to the argument that I made??
I never said being tall was the important thing, being good in the air and able to win aerial duels is the important thing. Varane is good at this as is Maguire (defensively, not talking about attacking headers). Lindelof and Bailly are not, and Martinez is certainly not up to Maguire or Varane's level either. We don't need to pretend otherwise. Anyone who watched the Brighton and Brentford matches could tell you he may struggle at times with physical hold up strikers in a way some of our other defenders might not.
Yeah I think this is spot on. Mascherano was able to play a major role in the Barcelona defense despite being the same height, and it was very rarely an issue. But if they were asking him to defend long balls and set pieces all game, then it likely would have been.
When you lose an aerial duel, you can try to win the second ball with teammates nearby. For Martinez, he just backed off and allowed the opponent to control every long ball. Let alone Adams is not really a physical holdup striker at all.
Every corner we get, I hope he scores a header, just to annoy all the people who only focus on his height.
I remember Evra went through a patch of scoring headers for us. Can see Martinez doing that
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He's arguably been our best threat in corners in all 4 games. I think he's had a good header or some involvement in the opposition box in each game iirc.
I'm gonna say he'll have more than 5 goals + assists all season.
He's fecking brilliant isn't he?
Conveniently leaves out the two times within minutes where he gave away chances looking very clumsy. First with the through ball where for some reason he couldn't get his body straight to clear it, and then when he misjudged a long ball and was much too easily pushed away by Adams who was allowed to chest the ball down on the edge of the area. He was good but not faultless.
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That's not true at all. It happened once or twice and there were as many instances if not more where he stepped ahead of attacker and won the header, which wasn't counted as duel.
A glass half empty type of guy.
I said he was good.
The complaint comes from the fact that Martinez allowed opponent to control a long ball so comfortably that there was no second ball. For your reference, he had only 1 successful ground duel and 0 tackle in this game.
No defender ever has a flawless game. They will always be out manouvered by a forward. Even your favourite CB’s from the past would have been made silly by a forward regularly.
Che Adams won only 3 out of 9 aerial duels.
Martinez also had 4 interceptions, which is highest in ManUtd side and second highest by any player on the pitch after JWP.
Martinez also had 7 clearances which is second best in ManUtd and second best by any player on the pitch.
Its hilarious people moaning about one instance where CF controlled the ball comfortably, as if it never happens.
For context of everyone reading, he had the most interceptions and clearances, and Varane also didn't have any tackles
starting to look like a good price now
He wasn't as good as Varane yesterday. People are going overboard in their hype, I thought Adams had his number for most of the game.
He’s been an injection of steel and grit in A team that looked soft. He’s a fighter. He’s also really comfortable with the ball, reads the game exceptionally well, and loves the physical tussles. Love him already.
This
How dare an opposition striker win even 1 or plays. Mind you, the same folks will crucify our attackers for NOT coming out on top for the same.
Came across? Their was litteraly one yard between Varane and Adams when the ball where at it heighest. Varane «dropped off» (as he should have), while Martinez «attacked the ball». Varane was right behind Adams when the ball hit his chest. However, Varane was very passive and allowed Adams to turn and take a shot. In that situation, it was Varanes job to prevent Adams from being able to turn around and take a shot.
It is not a big thing, but if it where the other way around, I’m sure people would say that Martinez lack of physical presence was why he did not defend more aggressive in the back of Adams.
And why are we pretending that Martinez being pushed in the back is something that could not have happened to a bigger CB? It seem so obvious that quite a few in here has made up there mind and are looking for situation to prove the narrative they have devided to believe in. This situation is a great example.
Very little talk about Varane letting Aribo having a free header from 12 yards in 65th minute. Would have been quite different if it was Martinez.
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