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Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Much more likely a huge smoke screen to try and force SJ/92 foundation
I did say try and sell it to the Saudis ?
They might buy the top 4 teams in the EPL just like Saudi pro league, look what happened in Golf ?
These are all good things.
Perhaps, but cultivating Ineos is an excellent Plan B.
In fairness, there are no particularly good variables in play.
Even fan ownership (always hypothetical) is a dangerous folly now, considering how many senior supporters are willing to embrace blood money.
Interesting times for us, Man United fans, huh? The fate of our club will be decided at least relatively soon. If not in upcoming months, it will be in the next couple of years.
Glazers staying long term would first mean midtable irrelevancy, and then relegation battle and eventual bankruptcy/administration. Slow decay of the club, brand and total disaster in the end. It's unavoidable, relentless fate, like death which comes for us all eventually.
Sir Jim Ratcliffe would be an improvement over the Glazers. There would likely be some cash injection and I tend to believe he would do something about the Glazer debt(transfer it to Ineos, get rid of it somehow, even though he hasn't said so). Jimmy wants to buy the club as some sort of childhood fantasy(owning the great Manchester United, club he supported as a kid). It would be a dream come true, his legacy, that's why he's not backing off and trying to outwit the Qataris in this battle. But, I'm pretty confident that Jim wouldn't be able to restore it's former glory to this club, not anything close. We would basically become the new Spurs or Arsenal of late Wenger era. Always a bridesmaid never a bride. Maybe an odd FA/League cup or Europa League title. Fighting for top 4(actually top 5 from from this year) to try to secure UCL and lure better players, but overpowered by City, Newcastle, Chelsea with their limitless resources/money and potentially some other clubs who know how to moneyball, with excellent recruitment(like Liverpool did perfectly over the last 5+ years with FSG who are experts in this field, and maybe what Arsenal is doing now). I don't have faith that Jimmy Brexit can take us to the promised land, unfortunately.
The only way for this club to become something that it once was - club feared and "respected"(at least in football capabilities sense) like City is now and how we were in the Fergie era is Sheik Jassim, who is the face of the Qatari state bid(most likely). If they want true success, Red Devils(we) will have to make a Faustian deal with Mephistopheles(The Devil himself) and sell our soul, become the newest and primary anti-hero, villain of world football. Quite ironic, isn't it? We all know this is true, let's not lie to ourselves. Injecting Qatari money into what is a still huge brand in Manchester United will make this club overpowered in a sense. We would/could build the most powerful squad ever assembled by a football club, surpassing even what City has now by using something they don't have - old glory, massive fanbase, rich tradition, (most?)famous name in world football.
What will happen in the end, I have no idea at this point. All 3 scenarios are possible. I would like, choose a third one(Faustian one). Let's go on highway to hell - no stop signs, speed limit(AC/DC reference). We're already the (Red)Devils. Hell is a place where we thrive in, we do not dread it - we're too badass for it. It's our home, natural habitat.
Glazers staying long term would first mean midtable irrelevancy, and then relegation battle and eventual bankruptcy/administration. Slow decay of the club, brand and total disaster in the end. It's unavoidable, relentless fate, like death which comes for us all eventually.
Sir Jim Ratcliffe would be an improvement over the Glazers. There would likely be some cash injection and I tend to believe he would do something about the Glazer debt(transfer it to Ineos, get rid of it somehow, even though he hasn't said so). Jimmy wants to buy the club as some sort of childhood fantasy(owning the great Manchester United, club he supported as a kid). It would be a dream come true, his legacy, that's why he's not backing off and trying to outwit the Qataris in this battle. But, I'm pretty confident that Jim wouldn't be able to restore it's former glory to this club, not anything close. We would basically become the new Spurs or Arsenal of late Wenger era. Always a bridesmaid never a bride. Maybe an odd FA/League cup or Europa League title. Fighting for top 4(actually top 5 from from this year) to try to secure UCL and lure better players, but overpowered by City, Newcastle, Chelsea with their limitless resources/money and potentially some other clubs who know how to moneyball, with excellent recruitment(like Liverpool did perfectly over the last 5+ years with FSG who are experts in this field, and maybe what Arsenal is doing now). I don't have faith that Jimmy Brexit can take us to the promised land, unfortunately.
The only way for this club to become something that it once was - club feared and "respected"(at least in football capabilities sense) like City is now and how we were in the Fergie era is Sheik Jassim, who is the face of the Qatari state bid(most likely). If they want true success, Red Devils(we) will have to make a Faustian deal with Mephistopheles(The Devil himself) and sell our soul, become the newest and primary anti-hero, villain of world football. Quite ironic, isn't it? We all know this is true, let's not lie to ourselves. Injecting Qatari money into what is a still huge brand in Manchester United will make this club overpowered in a sense. We would/could build the most powerful squad ever assembled by a football club, surpassing even what City has now by using something they don't have - old glory, massive fanbase, rich tradition, (most?)famous name in world football.
What will happen in the end, I have no idea at this point. All 3 scenarios are possible. I would like, choose a third one(Faustian one). Let's go on highway to hell - no stop signs, speed limit(AC/DC reference). We're already the (Red)Devils. Hell is a place where we thrive in, we do not dread it - we're too badass for it. It's our home, natural habitat.
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Seeing Liverpool and Arsenal push City close shows that we don't need Qatar or a sugardaddy to compete though it would be easier. Damn under the Glazers we have matched City's spending but lacked the required expertise and organizational nous to turn that spending into results on the pitch like Madrid, for example, have.
Its not about deep pockets but commitment and duty of care which is lacking under the Glazers. For example, how Woodward was allowed to negotiate another transfer deal after the Sanchez signing is beyond me. Does anyone think Ratcliffe would allow that nonsense to fester into the Sancho signing or he would have demanded accountability and wrung changes? That's what I want coming out of this deal because we know we can spend enough to compete and when we become more efficient we can pay off the debts, renovate the grounds etc.
With the duty of care and holding executives to account for poor decisions this club wouldn't have had the decade from hell even under the lizards from Tampa.
Its not about deep pockets but commitment and duty of care which is lacking under the Glazers. For example, how Woodward was allowed to negotiate another transfer deal after the Sanchez signing is beyond me. Does anyone think Ratcliffe would allow that nonsense to fester into the Sancho signing or he would have demanded accountability and wrung changes? That's what I want coming out of this deal because we know we can spend enough to compete and when we become more efficient we can pay off the debts, renovate the grounds etc.
With the duty of care and holding executives to account for poor decisions this club wouldn't have had the decade from hell even under the lizards from Tampa.
A new stadium - Infrastructure - players - training ground - 1 billion in debt -- would suggest we do need a sugar daddy.
Ineos or Qatar will not be making a 1bn upfront payment for the stadium, debt repayment maybe but a significant chunk of it is operational debt linked to preexisting revenues and already factored in. We owe maybe 400m in transfer fees over the next 3 to 5 seasons which will be offset by the 1.8bn to 3bn we stand to earn over the next 3 - 5 seasons too.
The stadium rebuild/upgrade is major capex say it costs us 1.5b over an economic life of 30 or so years and within 5 years its ready for reopening/opening it means that there will be additional income from the ground itself maybe by 20m or so thereby offsetting the possible to repayment to about 50m a year. Both Ineos and SJ will have better credit rating or no need for credit than the Glazers and should be able to self finance significant portions of the rebuild/upgrade.
My argument was that under better management we should be more efficient. Just a casual example with Rangnick in the room I am sure we wouldn't have settled on Antony, Hoijlund and Casemiro for a combined fee north of 200m. Better scouting and more decisive action could have seen us have Alvarez and Caicedo for a combined fee of less that half of what we paid for Antony. Those savings made year in and year out can finance a stadium upgrade because its not a one off payment that you will make.
Don't see bold used enough in this forum. Well done.
Anyone changing their mind yet to wanting Sir Jim, what with Nice tearing up the French league this season so far 
Interesting that this sale shit has gone one so long that those absolutely slating the job they have done at Nice might have to actually see them finally get their act together, and done shrewdly too.Anyone changing their mind yet to wanting Sir Jim, what with Nice tearing up the French league this season so far
I think we debunked the "if we had better management" myth like 2000 pages ago.
I watched the Phil Brown and James Rhodes video and they are saying that the news Bloomberg has delivered this week in regards to INEOS restructuring their offer, is the same news of the discussions they reported 2 weeks ago between INEOS and Raine/Glazers.
James Rhodes says that if INEOS are at this stage of "restructuring the bid" it ls likely that they are aware of what the Glazers want and that discussions are advanced. It that is true then perhaps Ratcliffe is there. They also suggested that he has been in discussions with the Glazers about the sale of the club for around 2 years.
They did also agree with Ben Jacobs, that both main parties looking to acquire the club are working on the assumption that they are the "preferred bidder."
James Rhodes says that if INEOS are at this stage of "restructuring the bid" it ls likely that they are aware of what the Glazers want and that discussions are advanced. It that is true then perhaps Ratcliffe is there. They also suggested that he has been in discussions with the Glazers about the sale of the club for around 2 years.
They did also agree with Ben Jacobs, that both main parties looking to acquire the club are working on the assumption that they are the "preferred bidder."
I'm fairly certain that Phil Brown had no idea of whats going on and he's just leeching off the story to make himself sound credible. He likes has no more a clue as to whats happening than we do
Haha hey it's just my opinion, but seeing as he was (or maybe still is) banned on here for his BS speaks volumes if you ask meIt's ironic that a brownie calling a brown clueless!
He sounded quite certain of his information from his sources at INEOS when I watched the video 2 weeks ago.
I do think that Jassim needs to act relatively soon if he wants to make some headway on this sale. I think or I am pretty certain, that if he sits and waits believing his last offer was high enough, then he will be disappointed.
We need a sugardaddy. Loads of debt, crumbling infrastructure, stadium and need lot of investment. Arsenal has been taking Emirates money for years now. So that's there as well.
In my opinion the only way Jim is going to be buying United is if he manages to appease all the Class A shareholders, not just the majority holders. I'm guessing he doesn't have the money to do that or he would have already. If he's gotten additional investors involved, then it's possible they'll want a say in how things are ran in exchange for their money. Do we really need that? Not sure you know, but thats my opinion.
I think SJ will up his bid, wouldn't surprise me if all this INEOS talk is the Glazers trying to push the Qataris to up their bid, but we won't actually know for a while
We got a snippet from Jacobs suggesting Jassim could up his bid,however still not convinced he will actually go through with it. However can't see any way he gets the club unless that happens
Judging by this photo, the Glazers or one of them will need to sell soon.
This is how billionaires look? #cacklife
It will happen... soon.
We got a sugardoggy
The Glazers don't care who they sell to, their only concern is how much they can make.
They have allowed Sir Jim time to sort out the Class A issue, an issue which has blindsided the Glazers, Raine Sir Jim, us (in a good way) etc.
The reason for allowing him time is not necessarily preference but the fact that it is hard for there to be competition to buy the club if there is only one bidder - Jassim.
Now they have Sir Jim back in the game and the hustle will start again.
The negotiating tactics being- I'm staying but pay me enough and I will leave.
the club will be worth so much more in a couple of years time, even with zero investment so pay me for the future rise in value or I will hang around
Reality is
- They have no interest in the club beyond a massive payday
- their dividends have dried up and will be hard to justify moving forward
- they will need to spend big on the ground and facilities but won't/can't use their own money
- they will need to restructure the clubs debt but the financial outlook has changed
- they have sold as much of the club/shares as they can before they start to lose their bargaining power
- both Sir Jim and Jassim - given their respective army of advisers, must know the Glazers personal bank accounts inside out and will not have wasted their time if they thought it was a total waste of their efforts.
Also you would have thought that selling a billion pound business would involve sophisticated business negotiations, a level beyond the ordinary man, not the shakedown, silent treatment, general veg. market negotiating, flying across the Atlantic to be in the bosom of his club/adoring fans, rumour spinning stuff we have/have not seen.
The whole process has synonymous of their ownership.
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They have allowed Sir Jim time to sort out the Class A issue, an issue which has blindsided the Glazers, Raine Sir Jim, us (in a good way) etc.
The reason for allowing him time is not necessarily preference but the fact that it is hard for there to be competition to buy the club if there is only one bidder - Jassim.
Now they have Sir Jim back in the game and the hustle will start again.
The negotiating tactics being- I'm staying but pay me enough and I will leave.
the club will be worth so much more in a couple of years time, even with zero investment so pay me for the future rise in value or I will hang around
Reality is
- They have no interest in the club beyond a massive payday
- their dividends have dried up and will be hard to justify moving forward
- they will need to spend big on the ground and facilities but won't/can't use their own money
- they will need to restructure the clubs debt but the financial outlook has changed
- they have sold as much of the club/shares as they can before they start to lose their bargaining power
- both Sir Jim and Jassim - given their respective army of advisers, must know the Glazers personal bank accounts inside out and will not have wasted their time if they thought it was a total waste of their efforts.
Also you would have thought that selling a billion pound business would involve sophisticated business negotiations, a level beyond the ordinary man, not the shakedown, silent treatment, general veg. market negotiating, flying across the Atlantic to be in the bosom of his club/adoring fans, rumour spinning stuff we have/have not seen.
The whole process has synonymous of their ownership.
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Until we hear the construction of INEOS new bid I would stay cautious but I do think you’re on to something with rinse repeat story to try and get an increased bid from SJ/92 Foundation.
Solid post the only mistake is you have not taken in to account FSP Financial Sustainability Period which from the dates you mention is 70% of turnover only is allowed to be spent by the club on wages, finances, amortised transfer, expenses, net abuse transfer and agent fees, if we are paying £400m over 4/5 tests in amortised fees that’s £80-£100m on top of £320m of wages and even with debt reorganised where interest payments no longer have to factored into FFP and FSP we might max out turnover at £650m with very little success on the field and as you quite rightly say we won’t have a new stadium update for 5 years to generate increased Matchday revenue, on the contrary if it’s a substantial refurbishment of Old Trafford our Matchday revenue might decrease. In short term.
The threshold of £455m is what the club could spend under FSP rules in 2025/26 providing the club generated £650m and as I’ve just shown you £405/425m is spent just on wages and amortised transfer, not much room to improve the team.
You are right about stadium Capex, the club can basically spend as much as it wants to the stadium, training ground and new ladies stadium with no effect to FSP/FFP and no SJ might not give any contractors £1bn up front, I could, however see them using capital to invest in the stadium and the 43 acres of land around, that’s an investment from Qatar state and they will be looking for senior executives who they appoint to produce a ROI.
By investing money we immediately gain around £50-60m additional transfer funds by just how badly the club has been run in the last decade where no money what so ever was ever invested by the Glazers !
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FFSJudging by this photo, the Glazers or one of them will need to sell soon.
This is how billionaires look?
It will happen... soon.
Imagine being owned by this clown.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’s started going senile and that dog has been being consulted on the running of Utd.
Also, for further insult - he’s not actually even a billionaire as the Sun states.
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Can't tell from that angle, but I wonder if the doggo has a pony tail too?FFS
Imagine being owned by this clown.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’s started going senile and that dog has been being consulted on the running of Utd.
And for further insult - he’s not actually even a billionaire.
That is one ugly, hairy kid, they’re definitely selling, if you can’t afford to shave your child you’re in serious trouble surely?Judging by this photo, the Glazers or one of them will need to sell soon.
This is how billionaires look? #cacklife
It will happen... soon.
BREAKING: Both INEOS and the 92 Foundation have lowered their offers upon seeing this photo.Judging by this photo, the Glazers or one of them will need to sell soon.
This is how billionaires look? #cacklife
It will happen... soon.
I don't know if you know the answer to this, but could the Glazers sell some or all of the 43 acres of land around OT and make a bin load of money, and stay on indefinitely?
If given decision making power, the dog would surely do a better job. If nothing else, at bare minimum things would get done more quickly.FFS
Imagine being owned by this clown.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’s started going senile and that dog has been being consulted on the running of Utd.
And for further insult - he’s not actually even a billionaire.
Let's be properly shit if we're not making the CL next year anyway.
Might push the dog pusher to feck off quicker
Might push the dog pusher to feck off quicker
That's prettier than Avram was at his age.
I wish. To quote Glazer disciple Ed Woodward, "Playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business." One or even a few seasons without UCL would still not be enough. It seems someone will have to get closer to their ransom demands for this hostage situation to end.
It feels impossible with the Glazers as our owners.
Still hoping for some huge protests. Really don't get what we are waiting for.
They (and the uncertainty surrounding this prolonged strategic review) are like a dark cloud hanging over the entire club. Not sure how many managers need the sack or how many more million quid need to be wasted on misguided transfers before everyone can agree on that.
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