Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Kellyiom]

It's not though is it? The solution to the problem isn't black or white. If Varane doesn't deserve to play then he doesn't deserve to play, the managers job is to explain to the player why he's not playing and what he has to do to get back in the team. The player then has the right to agree or disagree with the managers assessment and with the advice given on how to get back into the team. There should be no falling out over this, it's just a constructive discussion, unless someone is being unreasonable for whatever reason, and by all accounts, it's the manager.

Varane doesn't have a history of falling out with managers, Ten Hag has fallen out with 3 players in the last year, and that's discounting his time at Ajax where he did the same. So you've got to ask the question, what exactly is he saying when he criticises the players and what is he saying regarding getting back into the team? Something is rubbing people the wrong way, and to fall out like this suggests it's not the first time it's happened.

totally agree. I've long been baffled by the players, not just here but in general. Exactly like you said, makes me wonder what goes on? Listening to the manager and fulfilling his intructions to the best of their ability would more or less absolve them of major responsibility.
Allowing for individual errors which are always going to happen any questions could basically be 'ask the manager, I did my bit.'

 

[Baxquux]

When our managers play generally awful football, struggle to win games outside of streaks and make excuses, 'it's a process' for many people here. Flipside, when we suggest taking a lead from managers who commit to playing genuinely progressive football as a first principle, which would also offer our team a foundation or an actual Process going forward (things like focusing on making passing angles, retaining the ball for spells then speeding up the play to pull teams out of possession, creating overlaps on the edge of their box, create more clear-cut chances) for winning more games and guaranteeing the apparently so-important Cl places, rather than having to relying on (inefficient) moments.... then that's supposedly 'naïve.

 

[Kellyiom]

No, fans falling for over-lauded coaches who blame their expensively assembled, almost hand-picked squads for not playing with any level of fluency once one or two players are injured - with the style not great for months before either - as usual. Leeds under Bielsa (1st season in PL) and Brighton (Potter onward) played better football - Brentford likewise - without anything like the expenditure. All that's saved us is luck and a couple of 'moments'.

With the resources United have, any of the 1st team squad should be at the level (through talent and then through coaching) - to come in and play at a 'base' level in terms of movement, speed of passing etc even if what would be wins end up being draws now and again because of playing some of the second-string and not always converting chances....

I wrote earlier that we could improve in so many areas with the exception of individual errors. Even that, I'm thinking could benefit from being fitter. A misplaced pass late in the game could be a killer but a quick defender, physically and mentally could help.

 

[Redstain]

When our managers play generally awful football, struggle to win games outside of streaks and make excuses, 'it's a process' for many people here. Flipside, when we suggest taking a lead from managers who commit to playing genuinely progressive football as a first principle, which would also offer our team a foundation or an actual Process going forward (things like focusing on making passing angles, retaining the ball for spells then speeding up the play to pull teams out of possession, creating overlaps on the edge of their box, create more clear-cut chances) for winning more games and guaranteeing the apparently so-important Cl places, rather than having to relying on (inefficient) moments.... then that's supposedly 'naïve.

I just feel that Erik is unable to play a certain way because he's incapable of getting the team to produce what he wants. He's essentially signed a new midfield of his own choices and the performances aren't causing a significant shift from the former season.

My expectations with this manager is primarily based on results because it's the only thing that will keep him at the job despite poor performances. He's not going to be a productive front foot coach at the club.

This time next month / early January will ultimately determine his immediate career because a string of poor results isn't going to cut it. I don't think the club persist with him if the team finishes outside the top 5. The pressure that's going to be under Jim and the director of footballs hands for some form of tangible success, the manager will either have to deliver or at the very least leave a strong trail of breadcrumbs to signify that he's the right individual to go forward with and subsequently invest resources in.

 

[NewUser777]

When our managers play generally awful football, struggle to win games outside of streaks and make excuses, 'it's a process' for many people here. Flipside, when we suggest taking a lead from managers who commit to playing genuinely progressive football as a first principle, which would also offer our team a foundation or an actual Process going forward (things like focusing on making passing angles, retaining the ball for spells then speeding up the play to pull teams out of possession, creating overlaps on the edge of their box, create more clear-cut chances) for winning more games and guaranteeing the apparently so-important Cl places, rather than having to relying on (inefficient) moments.... then that's supposedly 'naïve.

Seriously dude. Make some effort! Pick any Mourinho game. Oles games, or ETH. You can’t be seriously suggesting lack of personal concentration and skill makes our managers tactical nuisances bad!? How the feck do you set up a team to rely on “moments”? Even you understand this to be ridiculous..

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I just feel that Erik is unable to play a certain way because he's incapable of getting the team to produce what he wants. He's essentially signed a new midfield of his own choices and the performances aren't causing a significant shift from the former season.

My expectations with this manager is primarily based on results because it's the only thing that will keep him at the job despite poor performances. He's not going to be a productive front foot coach at the club.

This time next month / early January will ultimately determine his immediate career because a string of poor results isn't going to cut it. I don't think the club persist with him if the team finishes outside the top 5. The pressure that's going to be under Jim and the director of footballs hands for some form of tangible success, the manager will either have to deliver or at the very least leave a strong trail of breadcrumbs to signify that he's the right individual to go forward with and subsequently invest resources in.

ETH will be gone in January if we can find a decent replacement. All the injuries, poor form, and Varane will be his undoing.

 

[Baxquux]

Seriously dude. Make some effort! Pick any Mourinho game. Oles games, or ETH. You can’t be seriously suggesting lack of personal concentration and skill makes our managers tactical nuisances bad!? How the feck do you set up a team to rely on “moments”? Even you understand this to be ridiculous..

Might want to polish up your own reading comp and choice of phrasing before you start casting aspersions on other people, dude. ' Tactical nuisances'?

 

[Andersonson]

What tantrum exactly do you think Varane has put up?

Whining about being benched

 

[Greyfog]

Win tomorrow and title challenge is back on. Trust the process.

 

[crossy1686]

Whining about being benched

He’s been benched before. Why exactly would he be whining about something that is part and parcel of being a footballer when he has no history of throwing tantrums?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

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Exactly.

The likelihood a manager will have 18 players he’s bought/or desired with no injuries is slim, they then have to go out & play against another team.

If you can’t even show a semblance of playing style that’s on the manager, not circumstances.

It's not though is it? The solution to the problem isn't black or white. If Varane doesn't deserve to play then he doesn't deserve to play, the managers job is to explain to the player why he's not playing and what he has to do to get back in the team. The player then has the right to agree or disagree with the managers assessment and with the advice given on how to get back into the team. There should be no falling out over this, it's just a constructive discussion, unless someone is being unreasonable for whatever reason, and by all accounts, it's the manager.

Varane doesn't have a history of falling out with managers, Ten Hag has fallen out with 3 players in the last year, and that's discounting his time at Ajax where he did the same. So you've got to ask the question, what exactly is he saying when he criticises the players and what is he saying regarding getting back into the team? Something is rubbing people the wrong way, and to fall out like this suggests it's not the first time it's happened.

I was getting at this with the Sancho situation but was cast as defending the indefensible.

Part of managing the squad is getting buy in from the squad, not all of that squad will be playing week in, week out. Now we don’t have access to what is actually being said but what we do know is any time EtH drops a players there’s rumblings, you can even look back at the Maguire saga last year, there were stories.

It’d be far easier to back a siege mentality if the managers signings were big mentalities but we’ve got Antony playing horrendously, missed a few games to be brought straight back in & be crap again.

Ten Hags biggest issue are his signings, bar maybe Martinez, haven’t come in & set standards. You can’t play Evans over Varane ffs, if that’s part of his philosophy he shouldn’t be coaching us.

Yeah it seems to be a Dutch philosophy that hasn’t proved its worth since the last time a Dutch coach won something, which was the 90’s. You’ve got genuine world class defenders who you’re refusing to play together because of passing angles. By that logic Rio and Vidic wouldn’t have started in the same team. It just doesn’t make sense on many levels.

You’re on a roll.

 

[The United]

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There are two sides to this, though. It is true that you can't play a pep's ball without good players who understand the system and are willing to do it. The other side is managers hiding behind the excuse of not having the 'right' players while they are playing crap game after game with an expensive squad that they themselves built.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

There are two sides to this, though. It is true that you can't play a pep's ball without good players who understand the system and are willing to do it. The other side is managers hiding behind the excuse of not having the 'right' players while they are playing crap game after game with an expensive squad that they themselves built.

Far more succinct than I put it but exactly.

 

[Pexbo]

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Coming from a manager who had his first set of injuries to deal with and lost 2 out of 2, scoring 2 and conceding 6.

 

[pocco]

Coming from a manager who had his first set of injuries to deal with and lost 2 out of 2, scoring 2 and conceding 6.

I don't think you can accuse Ange of not playing his style of football. Nobody gave this Spurs team a prayer coming into this season, especially having lost Kane. They've played some of the best football so far this season. So his point has actually been proven by himself.

Injuries is a different matter. Their squad isn't great to begin with so losing players to injury and bans has been a bridge too far. Look at the players he's bringing in, they don't have a 5th choice £80m CB like we do. I think they'll fall off this season but if they have another good transfer window or two then they could become a legit contender.

 

[Pexbo]

I don't think you can accuse Ange of not playing his style of football. Nobody gave this Spurs team a prayer coming into this season, especially having lost Kane. They've played some of the best football so far this season. So his point has actually been proven by himself.

Injuries is a different matter. Their squad isn't great to begin with so losing players to injury and bans has been a bridge too far. Look at the players he's bringing in, they don't have a 5th choice £80m CB like we do. I think they'll fall off this season but if they have another good transfer window or two then they could become a legit contender.

Im
Not accusing him of anything. I’m just saying that if he’s struggling with injuries and the results dry up, or his players lose a bit of interest in their new manager then he might find he has a chairman breathing down his neck and he might find himself playing a bit more pragmatic football to squeeze points where he can.

ten Hag at times last season had us playing great football with a fully fit and motivated squad. We weren’t far off top in January. It’s a bit harder when you have 3 left backs out injured, the first 3 of your 5 centrebacks, two midfielders and three forwards. I don’t think there is many managers who would be attempting to play their first choice brand of football in that scenario - they just want to grab as many points as possible and get out the other side.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Nike : Just do it, mate.

 

[Bastian]

 

[THE ZOL]

Ten Hag’s whole “United DNA” thing is nothing but an excuse geared at buying time from Top Reds (such as myself). I am not buying it.

Perhaps this guy has a philosophy and some principles, but it just does not work. The 3-1-6 makes us disastrous in the build-up and even worse in defensive transitions. We keep repeatedly conceding the same type of goal (from cut-backs). The man-oriented press has been a problem that remains unfixed from the start. While we had beasts we could defend large spaces such as Cas, Varane, AWB and Shaw, almost every team has now figured out a way to drag players out of position and play through the middle with ease. Meanwhile, our forwards are not getting clear-cut chances due to the absence of patterns of play or wide rotations.

Ten Hag’s defenders might predictably blame the players. But who’s players are they? You had three windows to build a team in-line with your principles. The first window was fine. Lisandro, Antony and Malacia are by all means players suited to posession football. Weghorst and Sabitzer on loan, I can accept as stop-gap solutions.

The last transfer window was a joke. Onana and Mount can considered good signings for a possession-based system. Hojlund does not have good enough link-up play for that as a 9, but he could work as a wide-forward. But what does Ten Hag do instead? He says that United will play as a transition-based team, which renders his £100m signing from the previous summer totally useless as he does not have the legs or physicality for this.

Moreover, what kind of transition-based team tries to build up from the back in a 3-1-6 set-up? At least in the Ole days we had a traditional set-up with a double-pivot which actually invited the opposition press and created spaces either in-front or behind the opponent’s defence. Meanwhile, Ten Hag’s confused and chaotic philosophy gives our opponents the chance to both outnumber us in the first phase of build-up (shadow the pressing / cutting off passing lanes to the solitary DM), while at the same time having enough men back so that we cannot create overloads in attack.

Ten Hag’s whole premise this season has been that we rotate the ball in defence to bait the press and then play through it. Wolves figured us out the first game. They cut off the passing lanes and forces us to go long. Arsenal then stopped pressing our defence altogether and spotted that we will struggle to get the ball to the two 10s, so we just ended up hoofing it down the channels. Our ball progression was better under Moyes, Ole, Jose and even Ralf!

This manager is totally useless. He doesn’t even have a philosophy. He is confused and keeps getting bailed out by the fact that we have better players than most opponents. He can’t even recruit the right profiles for his transition system. For those who say he needs Licha and Shaw back for it to work, how did we fare at the start of the season when they were available?

 

[Andrew Richmond]

ETH has been allowed to spend an obscene amount of money on new recruits most if not all of whom have been poor. That is on him. It will be his undoing and given it is likely we will finish out of the Champions League placing he will be gone at the seasons end. The new manager whomever that may be, will have an impossible job trying to off load so many players who just aren’t up to it.

 

[gantherbale]

I just feel that Erik is unable to play a certain way because he's incapable of getting the team to produce what he wants. He's essentially signed 192.168.100.1 192.168.1.1 a new midfield of his own choices and the performances aren't causing a significant shift from the former season.

My expectations with this manager is primarily based on results because it's the only thing that will keep him at the job despite poor performances. He's not going to be a productive front foot coach at the club.

This time next month / early January will ultimately determine his immediate career because a string of poor results isn't going to cut it. I don't think the club persist with him if the team finishes outside the top 5. The pressure that's going to be under Jim and the director of footballs hands for some form of tangible success, the manager will either have to deliver or at the very least leave a strong trail of breadcrumbs to signify that he's the right individual to go forward with and subsequently invest resources in.

he is a youth coach that's for sure ! Eric had so much success at ajax because he could control their mindset to be adjacent to his

 

[Ayoba]

Who is be going to fall out with next? I reckon Casemiro

 

[TsuWave]

we're so bad. horrible first half

 

[mu4c_20le]

Van der Gaag out

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[Based Adnan]

Absolute pretender

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Stunning goal aside, we look poor again.

 

[hobbers]

Body of evidence against ETH continues to mount (pun intended).

We've never looked this shit at everything. Off the ball, on the ball, defending, attacking, set pieces....

 

[TsuWave]

Enough is enough. fecking hell man. what is this shite?

 

[PoTMS]

Nothing we didn't know already about him. Some of you lot are deluded beyond belief.

 

[Leftback99]

Must be one of our worst halfs of the season (ignoring the wonder goal).

 

[Malone_Post]

Would love to know what we practice in training.

Because it certainly isn’t football.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Arnold and Murtough are going to be kicked out soon. After that I think will be ETH turn soon. Need total revamp of football structure once SJR take over. SJR need to put in a competent team.

ETH's football is dinosaur, zero resemblance of modern attacking football.

 

[Shane88]

I'm done with him. It's the manager, not the players.

Guardiola, Klopp, Arteta, plenty others have managed to coach their teams to calmly play the ball out from the back.

18 months later and every single phase of possession when we're trying to play it out we look like there is piss running down our legs. Players are terrified of doing it.

He's a fraud who can't coach shit but I don't really care if he's sacked or not.

 

[WaltJabsco]

we're so bad. horrible first half

They just seem to refuse to play the ball forward. Even if they receive the ball facing the Everton goal, they turn away to pass square or backwards. Rashford once again anonymous when not playing on the left, Fernandes also doing feck all but give the ball away repeatedly.

 

[TsuWave]

Unai has consistently seen success as a manager - his CV is better than Ten Hag's

Villa doesn't play defensively. They have exciting wide players, and a technically sound midfield averaging 65% of the ball at home. They have scored 18 in 7. For comparison United has scored 7 in 7. Unai Emery has 4 european trophies, a league title and domestic cups in France.

I don't know why anyone would scoff at Unai Emery. Better CV than Ten Hag, proven winner - with major trophies under his belt - his team plays really good football - and even at Arsenal where things went pear-shaped, he still was an Europa runner-up there.

Just stick a fork in this guy - and bring Emery in

 

[AndySmith1990]

Is anyone actually expecting us to magically transform into a good team? I mean, everyone should be used to what we're watching by now

 

[Leftback99]

Is anyone actually expecting us to magically transform into a good team? I mean, everyone should be used to what we're watching by now

When Martinez comes back apparently.

 

[AndySmith1990]

When Martinez comes back apparently.

Without wanting to be too harsh, those who blame a couple defenders being injured for the entire team being crap, are morons

 

[Longshanks]

Is anyone actually expecting us to magically transform into a good team? I mean, everyone should be used to what we're watching by now

Not necessarily but I would expect to have some more progressive tactics than back to the GK to hoof big diagonals to our to three quick technical forwards against a notoriously physical Shaun dyche team.

Interesting that dyche who has been at Everton much shorter than ETH has been at United and they very obviously are playing dyche ball. What exactly is it that we are trying to play?

 

[E-mal]

He is bald, but the fraud type