[jojojo]

Herrera - 1.8m
Fellaini - 1.92m with impeccable chest control

Fellaini is the only player in the team who can do a good job when we use the long-ball/early crossing tactics whereas Mata/Rooney/Di Maria can all do a similar job the Herrera. That's the only reason I can think of, that Fellaini adds another dimension to our attack.

That's the trouble though - I want to see a team play the kind of football Herrera is good at, not the kind that needs a long ball to Fellaini. It bothers me that we'd buy a player of Ander's type if we didn't want one.

I do wonder if Herrera is struggling with the court case though. Even if you're convinced you're innocent, legal proceedings can be a huge emotional strain. That can have all kinds of negative knock-on impacts in terms of frustration, loss of concentration and depression. Of course a fractured rib and a manager who doesn't trust/need you might put the top hat on that.

 

[Hojoon]

Has he shagged Van Gaal's daughter?

 

[Cina]

Because he actually said the other day in an interview that yes he would like to play all the time, all players do, but he understands that it is different at a club like this. I also think if he left he would feel he had failed.

What else is he going to say?

"Nah, I'm pissed, I want out" ?

 

[Ramshock]

I hate that LVG doesnt seem to rate him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What else is he going to say?

"Nah, I'm pissed, I want out" ?

Some would. We don't know what he is being told. If he is happy that is all that matters. It is nobody elses business. If he isn't than he has to take it up with the manager. He might have already and has been given reassurances. We don't know and are all just jumping to conclusions as people do.

 

[Blue always red]

That's the trouble though - I want to see a team play the kind of football Herrera is good at, not the kind that needs a long ball to Fellaini. It bothers me that we'd buy a player of Ander's type if we didn't want one.

I do wonder if Herrera is struggling with the court case though. Even if you're convinced you're innocent, legal proceedings can be a huge emotional strain. That can have all kinds of negative knock-on impacts in terms of frustration, loss of concentration and depression. Of course a fractured rib and a manager who doesn't trust/need you might put the top hat on that.

I think every United fan would want to see us play the kind of football that Herrera excels at and it's weird because if you substitute Herrera for Fellaini tonight, you have a group of players that are certainly capable of playing that type of football. I guess LVG feels as though we're not currently at the level where we can play like that so he needs to employ a crude, direct approach which can lead to scrappy goals.

I'd be tempted to agree that the court case and not playing regularly is taking its toll on him, but the fact is he puts in solid performances whenever he does play :/.

 

[Kag]

Hold on a second. I like Hererra and he deserves more playing time but I'd love to know what some of you guys were watching. He came on, ran around a bit whilst mostly doing feck all and gave the ball away, a lot

He didn't though, did he?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think every United fan would want to see us play the kind of football that Herrera excels at and it's weird because if you substitute Herrera for Fellaini tonight, you have a group of players that are certainly capable of playing that type of football. I guess LVG feels as though we're not currently at the level where we can play like that so he needs to employ a crude, direct approach which can lead to scrappy goals.

I'd be tempted to agree that the court case and not playing regularly is taking its toll on him, but the fact is he puts in solid performances whenever he does play :/.

It says something that all the stuff going on and he still contributes when he comes on. I just think LvG has been caught out by some of the styles of play employed by teams over here. He seems to have a real problem with teams with big men in them and adjusts his teams accordingly, instead of letting them worry about us. Next season he might just say What the hell.

 

[Cina]

Some would. We don't know what he is being told. If he is happy that is all that matters. It is nobody elses business. If he isn't than he has to take it up with the manager. He might have already and has been given reassurances. We don't know and are all just jumping to conclusions as people do.

It's immensely frustrating to watch a player who you were delighted to see the club sign, who you (and many on here, I assume) watched for years in La Liga and thought would be great for us, especially given how awful our midfield has been in recent years, not get any games, even against league two opposition.

Whatever the circumstances are, or aren't, I don't for a second believe there's any fundamental reason he should possibly be playing this little other than the manager simply doesn't really seem to rate him much or see him as a good fit for our current team, which is left all the more baffling when you consider some of his other selections and decisions.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He didn't though, did he?

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's immensely frustrating to watch a player who you were delighted to see the club sign, who you (and many on here, I assume) watched for years in La Liga and thought would be great for us, especially given how awful our midfield has been in recent years, not get any games, even against league two opposition.

Whatever the circumstances are, or aren't, I don't for a second believe there's any fundamental reason he should possibly be playing this little other than the manager simply doesn't really seem to rate him much or see him as a good fit for our current team, which is left all the more baffling when you consider some of his other selections and decisions.

I don't think he is happy that the squad isn't at the level he wants yet. Next summer signings will show what system he wants to play. I think a lot of the systems we have seen this season are down to injuries, players in certain positions not being good enough and him insisting on worrying about teams with tall players and who supposedly play the long ball.

 

[Sam]

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

94% pass completion.

 

[Cina]

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

2 or 3 passes in 34 with a 94% accuracy is pretty damn good, certainly not "a lot", I'd say it's maybe ... a little.

I don't think he is happy that the squad isn't at the level he wants yet. Next summer signings will show what system he wants to play. I think a lot of the systems we have seen this season are down to injuries, players in certain positions not being good enough and him insisting on worrying about teams with tall players and who supposedly play the long ball.

I think the chances of Herrera being here alongside next summer's signings are quite slim, at this rate.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

2 or 3 passes in 34 with a 94% accuracy is pretty damn good, certainly not "a lot", I'd say it's maybe ... a little.

I think the chances of Herrera being here alongside next summer's signings are quite slim, at this rate.

You can also lose the ball with heavy touch, turning into an opposition player or just getting muscled off the ball. More to retaining the football than not passing it to the wrong shirt. A noticeable amount of moves broke down with him today.

Anyway, it's definitely an aspect of his game and by far the most plausible explanation for him not getting many games. What else? Van Gaal is pissed off because he lost a load of money betting on Spanish football?

 

[Castia]

Hes always in space and constantly on the move, dynamic as feck.

 

[Kag]

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

If twice is a lot then so be it. I recall you referring to his ball retention as a criticism back in the summer and it's something people seem to have jumped on albeit there is little evidence to suggest it is any kind of problem. Attempting a through ball while surrounded by multiple players outside the opposition box is hardly indicative of a problem if it doesn't reach its target.

I'd also suggest that the reason it appears noticeable is because we do seem to have a Kagawa-like situation building whereby unnecessary focus is being placed on his performances, for better or worse.

I know that I was watching him more closely than I was Blind, for example, and I'd hazard a guess that, you, many others and most definitely (chomping at the bit) charley, were too.

Until he gets regular game time it's difficult to assess him with any genuine authority.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If twice is a lot then so be it. I recall you referring to his ball retention as a criticism back in the summer and it's something people seem to have jumped on albeit there is little evidence to suggest it is any kind of problem. Attempting a through ball while surrounded by multiple players outside the opposition box is hardly indicative of a problem if it doesn't reach its target.

I'd also suggest that the reason it appears noticeable is because we do seem to have a Kagawa-like situation building whereby unnecessary focus is being placed on his performances, for better or worse.

I know that I was watching him more closely than I was Blind, for example, and I'd hazard a guess that, you, many others and most definitely (chomping at the bit) charley, we're too.

Until he gets regular game time it's difficult to assess him with any genuine authority.

Don't think that was me. I watch very little Spanish football. You're right about watching him very closely though. I guess we're all doing that. We all desperately want him to win the gaffer round. I mean, I do think he's been up and down and can be a bit sloppy but there's so much positive about him too. Shame Van Gaal is evidently still very unconvinced.

 

[Joga Bonito]

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

We might as well just play Blind, Carrick and Mata in midfield and be done with it.

Di Maria is another one who's naturally progressive and risky with his passes which explains why he barely features in midfield. He did have a good game today in the LCM position though, his best position imo.

Fellaini, whilst being decent with his short passes has the tendency to mess up the most basic of passes. Had some absolute mares against Pool first half and Southampton etc in this regard.

It's just mind boggling how Herrera doesn't get the opportunities. We've been crying out for an injection of high tempo passing and a more incisive passer in some absolutely mind numbing games. Rooney and Fellaini aren't capable of doing that and we shackle Di Maria by pushing him further forward where he can't do it whilst leaving Herrera on the bench...

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Blind and Rojo were undeniably Van Gaal signings. Herrera, Shaw and Falcao, none seem to be completely in favour and the two former were definitely not Van Gaal signings. I think that Falcao was a Woody prestige signing. Of course there is Di Maria but his level is too high to be ignored.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm just got back from the game and by the sounds of thing, I clearly missed the second coming of Christ walking onto the pitch in the second half.

Don't get me wrong - I want Herrera to play as much as the next guy - but come on, he was about as fine as everyone else was tonight. He wasn't any more progressive or sharp on the ball than anyone else - it was basically just more of the same as what we were doing before he came on the pitch, which you know... is nice.

 

[m1y2]

He looked a bit shy to play forward pass because I think the one think Van doesn't like on him is giving away the ball by sloppy passing. Not that he is any bad at passing he has almost everytime over 90% accuracy but he makes mistake here and there BUT other players doing mistakes too. When you see Rooney making some terrible mistakes by passing or losing the ball in crucial moments setting up the counterattack you must be thinking that it is insane to bench this player who is apart that brilliant in every aspect of his game. Can win the ball, play a through ball and always available doing things while moving. This player should start every game for us.

 

[Brightonian]

Blind and Rojo were undeniably Van Gaal signings. Herrera, Shaw and Falcao, none seem to be completely in favour and the two former were definitely not Van Gaal signings. I think that Falcao was a Woody prestige signing. Of course there is Di Maria but his level is too high to be ignored.

But you don't actually know any of that. You're just guessing based on vague paper-reported timings. Just like I'm guessing when I say that I reckon we only bought players that the new manager, who after all was confirmed long before we signed anyone, was happy for us to buy.

 

[m1y2]

I'm just got back from the game and by the sounds of thing, I clearly missed the second coming of Christ walking onto the pitch in the second half.

Don't get me wrong - I want Herrera to play as much as the next guy - but come on, he was about as fine as everyone else was tonight. He wasn't any more progressive or sharp on the ball than anyone else - it was basically just more of the same as what we were doing before he came on the pitch, which you know... is nice.

And what do you want from him, he played for about 15 minutes and the game was over. As I mentioned above I think van Gaal doesn't like risky passing which sometimes he does that is why he kept the ball on the ground and passed around the pitch rather than doing anything special. The guy must be also mentally down that everything he does doesn't make him to start even against fecking league two side..

 

[Classical Mechanic]

But you don't actually know any of that. You're just guessing based on vague paper-reported timings. Just like I'm guessing when I say that I reckon we only bought players that the new manager, who after all was confirmed long before we signed anyone, was happy for us to buy.

I don't believe that at all, especially in the case of Shaw. That deal was reported as done in January.

 

[Kag]

Don't think that was me. I watch very little Spanish football. You're right about watching him very closely though. I guess we're all doing that. We all desperately want him to win the gaffer round. I mean, I do think he's been up and down and can be a bit sloppy but there's so much positive about him too. Shame Van Gaal is evidently still very unconvinced.

It was a few games into pre season, I reckon. Ball retention was a talking point. If it wasn't you then fair enough, but there was an early sceptic amongst us, definitely. Unless Louis frequents this side of the Internet..

 

[Brightonian]

I don't believe that at all, especially in the case of Shaw. That deal was reported as done in January.

Not by anyone half reliable. The general narrative seems to be that we basically had the groundwork for a deal in place by the time the World Cup started, but Shaw didn't want to be distracted by negotiations, so we couldn't conclude the deal until after the tournament. But even that is mostly just from various papers, which is entirely my point. You can 'believe' what you want, but you don't actually know shit.

 

[Cina]

You can also lose the ball with heavy touch, turning into an opposition player or just getting muscled off the ball. More to retaining the football than not passing it to the wrong shirt. A noticeable amount of moves broke down with him today.

Anyway, it's definitely an aspect of his game and by far the most plausible explanation for him not getting many games. What else? Van Gaal is pissed off because he lost a load of money betting on Spanish football?

yes it's an aspect of his game, no doubt, always has been, which makes me wonder, why fecking buy him then? His success average in Spain was around 82%, surely LvG knew what he was getting with him? He knew he was getting someone who is going to misplace passes and lose the ball a bit due to their style of play, right? Surely the club we support and the manager at its helm aren't fecking thick enough to spend £30m on a player without first knowing all this, are they? Or am I being too optimistic?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You can 'believe' what you want, but you don't actually know shit.

Bit strong isn't when you are in the same shitless boat.

Don't stop believing pal.

 

[Brightonian]

Bit strong isn't when you are in the same shitless boat.

Don't stop believing pal.

Mate, that's exactly what I said in my original post. No-one knows anything, so on what basis are you talking about players being 'Van Gaal signings' or 'Woody signings'?

 

[VanGaalEra]

Can't believe people are saying he'll leave in the summer. CL football next season, we'll have more games and he will play more.

We need as many quality players as possible.

 

[Sarni]

Can't believe people are saying he'll leave in the summer. CL football next season, we'll have more games and he will play more.

We need as many quality players as possible.

But he isn't really in team's rotation, that's the point. If he were playing every other game you could say he'd play more with CL football in our schedule, as it stands it'd just add more games where he could be put on the bench while other players are rotated.

He hasn't started a league game in 2 months. He's played a total of around 150 minutes apart from Yeovil FA Cup game that he started.

I'd be livid if I were him. Rooney starts in midfield ahead of him even though he clearly cannot play there.

 

[Amar__]

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

Rooney gives the ball away in dangerous situations leading to a counter attack at least once or twice per game(unlike Herrera who at least loses it quite high on the pitch when trying something creative) yet van Gaal insists on playing Rooney in midfield. Fellaini isn't much better either when played in midfield, and Mata has his poor games when he is struggling with phyisically stronger opponents marking him. It's just a lazy excuse, no way I am buying it.

edit: And yeah, I almost forgot to add di Maria too. So pretty much neither of our midfielders is much better at not giving the ball away than him.

 

[The Don]

He didn't though, did he?

Well maybe not a lot but he did a few times. Considering he was only on the pitch for 20 mins around 90% pass completion is the very least you'd expect from any competent midfielder, especially against a team that was 2-0 down and only managed about 30% possession throughout the whole match.
Also, as has been said, pass completion is a very, very different stat to losing the ball.

He did nothing wrong. He did okay, actually but some people on here were acting like he came on and walked on water.

 

[iBoss]

He links very well with the fullbacks when they get forward. You would think if we are playing without wingers that that should count for more. Too many times this season have our fullbacks lacked support and a player to properly link with.

 

[Jammydodger7]

I really think LVG doesn't think Herrera and di Maria can play together.

 

[Name Changed]

He kind of did actually. Not a LOT but a noticeable amount. Seems to be what you get with him. He's that little bit more progressive and exciting but also more likely to lose the ball. With Van Gaal's twitchy ass it's the latter quality that must have him so far down the pecking order.

I think Rooney is far more adept at losing the ball but as LVG had said repeatedly, he views him as undroppable. I'd rather have Herrara in the middle than Rooney personally.

 

[Devil may care]

I get the feeling LvG doesn't feel he can play him and Di Maria in the same line-up. Good assist today when he came on and he seems to be keeping his head down and trying to ride out this difficult period.

 

[bugmat]

You can also lose the ball with heavy touch, turning into an opposition player or just getting muscled off the ball. More to retaining the football than not passing it to the wrong shirt. A noticeable amount of moves broke down with him today.

Anyway, it's definitely an aspect of his game and by far the most plausible explanation for him not getting many games. What else? Van Gaal is pissed off because he lost a load of money betting on Spanish football?

Wot... are we talking about Rooney or Herrera?!?

Ander had zero instances of bad control and wasn't dispossesed once in his 24 minute cameo. His passing accuracy implies tha the made little bad passes either. Ae you Van Gaal in disguise?

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/92...A-Cup-2014-2015-Manchester-United-Cambridge-U

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Wot... are we talking about Rooney or Herrera?!?

Ander had zero instances of bad control and wasn't dispossesed once in his 24 minute cameo. His passing accuracy implies tha the made little bad passes either. Ae you Van Gaal in disguise?

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/92...A-Cup-2014-2015-Manchester-United-Cambridge-U

People will see what they want to see. Ander's movement and the timing of his movements are so underrated.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Lvg should get his twitchy ass checked out. This guy needs to play more.