[herokiller84]

Bit off from the start like the rest of the team,but his pedigree shone through.

Love the fact hes got more than a bit off bite in a tackle,he just wants the ball,and as things stand Fletcher has complimented him well.

Carricks return and hopefully another midfield acquisition,really should free him up to dictate,,,,hes a cracking wee midfielder that will only get better.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Aye, but you have to remember he has a league 2 player in the shape of Cleverley next to him.

Poor old Clevs, but I'd inject his midfield partner for many of the first half games so far has often been Fletcher, the thing with Fletch as well is he gives a MotM performance Vs Real, makes you pause and think.. perhaps it's someone who could offer us something sustained this coming season.. and yet the next game he looks distinctly average once again, thats the thing with our midfield none can really so far be counted on to give consistent 7-8 /10 performances week on week, Herrera included so far, but again.. its too early to judge the guy too harshly when he's just settling in.

 

[Juan't Mata]

You can see his quality in the little things he does, turning quickly and firing the ball wide or using his body to turn away from a player. He'll improve things immeasurably in our midfield once he settles.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Aye, but you have to remember he has a league 2 player in the shape of Cleverley next to him.

Heh. Cleverley, of course, had the benefit of playing with the Spanish Paul Scholes alongside him, so can have no excuse for not putting on a midfield masterclass. Amirite?

Didn't watch the game so can't comment on the performance of either player but the double standards about Herrera's pre-season have been interesting.

People were belittling Fletcher's performances against Italian opposition by saying he had an unusual amount of time on the ball while absolutely nobody criticised Herrera (who didn't really impress) for failing to make the most of all that time and space. Now we've decided it's Cleverley's fault Hererra wasn't much cop against Madrid but woe betide anyone who might argue that perhaps Cleverley might have benefited from playing alongside a more effective midfield partner?

I obviously hope Hererra will be a huge success at United and there's been enough good things writtedn about him - as well his one great performance against admittedly woeful opposition - to make me confident that he's got what it takes. I think it will take him a good while to settle into the team though, particularly against PL opposition, perhaps most of next season. Meanwhile, I look forward to seeing how creative and varied the excuses get after each less than impressive perfornance*.




*Obviously, I look forward to impressive performances waaaaaaaay more than creative excuses about poor ones. That should go without saying but you can never be sure on here...

 

[#07]

@Blue always red @BennyBlanco Why the backhanders for Cleverley and Fletcher? Nobody played more full games on tour than Fletcher is it any wonder he looked knackered? Most players have been playing a half here, an hour there. Fletch played 90 minutes against Madrid on Saturday and then had to play again on Monday, of course he was tired. As for Cleverley, he was involved in both our second and third goals and looked quite good to my eyes. Getting Fletch off, so he could rest, and introducing the fresh legs of Cleverley helped give our midfield more balance in the second half. I don't see how anyone can view his contribution as league two standard.

@Pogue Mahone Actually thought Herrera played his best game since La Galaxy last night. We were awful as an attacking unit until he popped up with the strength to hold off Henderson and arrow that pass to Chico, which led to Rooney's goal. You spend £30 million on a player because you expect that when nothing is going you're way that guy will make something happen. For the first time, Herrera did that last night. Against La Galaxy the gulf in class was so big Herrera barely needed to get into gear, against Roma he only woke up when we started to dominate at the end of the first half, and against Inter he was treading water. Yesterday Herrera stood up to be counted, and he did it when we actually needed him to. That's what he was bought for. That bodes very well for the future especially as most Premier League midfield's aren't as good as Liverpool's. I could watch the clip of him turn away from the Liverpool midfield and find Hernandez with the pass on loop.

 

[BennyBlanco]

snip

I don't have anything against Fletch, wouldn't knock him or any of our players, I'm just stating the opinion since his return last year, more or less, he's looked good in one game and quite average the next.. you don't know what you can expect game to game from him, it's been similar this tour where I thought hes put in some great performances yet looked quite average the next, last night similar, but I take your point on total minutes played over the tour and tiredness, though most of our side looked a bit jaded to be fair, I would disagree also on saying Herrera had his best game last night, some of his basic touch and easy passes he misplaced and the amount of fouls he commited was particuarly high, it was eyebrow raising that he was only booked after several fouls, in a league game he'd have been in the book far more quickly, also he could easily have given a second penalty away with his challenge on Sterling.

You can see the quality he holds but so far he's struggling to produce it, my opinion so far.

 

[Amar__]

I thought he was quite average last night, his passing seemed off at times, as did most of the team first half in all honesty, he commited countless fouls to boot, it's too early to judge him really, but the Galaxy game aside, I would say its fair to say he hasn't looked exceptional but again.. it's far too early to be overly critical or positive

That doesn't have to be a bad thing, as long as he makes them high on the pitch and not around our box. If anything, we conceeded lot of stupid goals in last few seasons that could have been stopped relatively easy if we had player who was willing to foul opposition players at times.

 

[#07]

I don't have anything against Fletch, wouldn't knock him or any of our players, I'm just stating the opinion since his return last year, more or less, he's looked good in one game and quite average the next.. you don't know what you can expect game to game from him, it's been similar this tour where I thought hes put in some great performances yet looked quite average the next, last night similar, but I take your point on total minutes played over the tour and tiredness, though most of our side looked a bit jaded to be fair, I would disagree also on saying Herrera had his best game last night, some of his basic touch and easy passes he misplaced and the amount of fouls he commited was particuarly high, it was eyebrow raising that he was only booked after several fouls, in a league game he'd have been in the book far more quickly, also he could easily have given a second penalty away with his challenge on Sterling.

You can see the quality he holds but so far he's struggling to produce it, my opinion so far.

His best game since he played against LA Galaxy, not his best game. Clearly the man of the match performance in his debut was better. However, what he did last night was more important. He's been decent in the previous three games without doing too much, and its relatively easy to play well when everyone else in the side is on their game. Last night was the first time in a red shirt, against good quality opposition, where Herrera was the reason we started playing well instead of just a beneficiary of us playing well. That, to me, was the big difference. Until Herrera's bit of strength and vision opened Liverpool up, so Hernandez to whip that cross to Rooney, we were totally flat. What I like most is that, at a time when he wasn't pulling up any trees, Ander found something within himself to do that and lift the whole side. It's a sign he can be more than a sunshine player for us.

 

[Brightonian]

In his less impressive games (even including last night, which we'd be justified in simply writing off because almost everyone was shite in the first half) there have still been lots of good moments, things that only a really quality player could pull off. There haven't been mediocre performances so much as inconsistent ones. Even last night he was doing these little turns and bursts of pace which took him past and away from the likes of Henderson and Gerrard, and little deft through-balls.

I'm not worried. He'll take a while to settle into full form but he's already playing more than well enough for me.

As I say, I'm not counting last night for much because so many players who've been superb so far on tour (Fletcher and Evans, for example) were utterly, anomalously incompetent. And I don't buy that it was Liverpool's so-called 'high press', because Madrid were pressing us just as energetically at times and we dealt with it effortlessly against them. I'd be more inclined to say it was the difficulty of getting the ball to move on that waterlogged pitch. And then, once they realised how badly they were playing, a sort of cumulative team underwear-soiling, which LVG effectively put a stop to at half time.

 

[Kag]

I like this guy. He will go a long way in improving our football as a team. He's simple yet effective, circulates the ball well yet will always look for the creative pass. He's no world beater, but I don't think he needs to be. With the right partner, he, and Mata, can make for an excellent midfield three. I like what I've seen so far, certainly.

 

[goin4glory]

Such an excellent addition the fans are gonna love him.

 

[Orc]

Seemed like he had about 15 fouls yesterday.

 

[jojojo]

As one of the ones who was pleased we went back for him, I'll chime in. His tackling is like that, he used to pick up a lot of cards (including reds) in La Liga. He won't change overnight, but I think he will moderate it, if he knows we're relying on him to stay on the pitch, and let someone else make those "second-yellow" provoking tackles instead.

As for him seemingly playing within himself since the Galaxy match. He looks restrained and that's not normally his problem. I assume he's learning his role. He's watching his wingback, he's watching his central partner. I'm guessing LvG is telling him to look at his positioning and nothing is instinctive yet. Same with his passing, he doesn't know his teammates or their movements - he gets caught out by it.

He's not a solution to our problems in midfield, he's just part of the solution.

 

[jojojo]

Such an excellent addition the fans are gonna love him.

I agree. Once he settles in, he's going to be one of those players you'll be glad is on the team, particularly if the team is having to work for a result.

 

[Escobar]

Very happy we finally have him. He's going to be brilliant and as others said before, only a matter of time before he breaks into the Spanish NT

 

[Solius]

Didn't catch the game but that moment where he shrugged off Henderson (?) and played a perfect pass to Hernandez made me so happy. We've lacked that in midfield for years. I love Carrick but he'd have shat himself and played a five yard pass backwards to Evans.

 

[gooDevil]

Think he was greatly underrated in the ratings section, he's a huge part of the reason we've able to keep possession. He's at the heart of it all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

As one of the ones who was pleased we went back for him, I'll chime in. His tackling is like that, he used to pick up a lot of cards (including reds) in La Liga. He won't change overnight, but I think he will moderate it, if he knows we're relying on him to stay on the pitch, and let someone else make those "second-yellow" provoking tackles instead.

As for him seemingly playing within himself since the Galaxy match. He looks restrained and that's not normally his problem. I assume he's learning his role. He's watching his wingback, he's watching his central partner. I'm guessing LvG is telling him to look at his positioning and nothing is instinctive yet. Same with his passing, he doesn't know his teammates or their movements - he gets caught out by it.

He's not a solution to our problems in midfield, he's just part of the solution.

To be expected in a player in his position playing for a new team. Good central midfielders play like they have eyes in the back of their head. Partly because they have great vision and feel for what's going on around them, partly because they anticipate the runs made by their team mates without needing to see them. That last bit takes a long time to learn. It's why they are likely to take longer to bed in than any other position.

 

[Jacob]

Don't know which one I'd rather have

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Finally watched the game last night. Was better than I'd feared, reading some of the post-match comments online. A big improvement on his last game IMO, especially playing on pitch which really wasn't conducive to passing.

He really needs to clean up his act a little bit though. I actually love seeing someone getting stuck in and kicking a few players. We've been too "nice" in midfield for years. About time the opposition started worrying about their shins again. However, some of his challenges were clumsy to the point of stupidity. To be fair, he was playing the game on it's merits and might have calmed down if he'd been booked earlier. I just have a nagging concern that he can only play one way. Didn't he pick up more than his fair share of reds when he last played this deeper role for his club? Hopefully he'll prove me wrong when the season starts.

 

[Glanville95]

He's picked up five red cards over the duration of his career, but not one last season. At the age of 24, I suppose that's quite a lot, although I don't know what is statistically the average for someone that age. Anyway, it could be part and parcel of a player who is aggressive and completes a lot of tackles anyway. As you say, we've lacked physicality and aggression in midfield for years, so I would rather we have a player like that who is prone to poor challenges than someone who is tentative and passive in midfield like Cleverley for example.

 

[RuudTom83]

One thing that I really like about Herrera is that he's not afraid to get stuck in.

Yeah i love to see that quality in a CM, and lets face it, if he plays alongside Carrick he is going to have to get stuck in for him too.

 

[Kayo]

I am sick of having a midfield full of complete pussies.

I'd take the odd red card if he performs in the other games.

 

[gooDevil]

Could someone please do an 'Ander's Game' out of this?

Gonna need his smiling face inside/on top of the helmet!

 

[XdanielredX]

One thing that I really like about Herrera is that he's not afraid to get stuck in.

Agreed, was a bit worried with him being Spanish.

But on his pre-season performances he puts himself about in midfield more than Fellaini and when he cops a hit he gets straight back up and chases his man down, he's a little fighter, I like it!

 

[PvsNP]

One thing that I really like about Herrera is that he's not afraid to get stuck in.

Playing for Bilbao would do that to you, I'd imagine.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Don't know which one I'd rather have

That is a child, I'm almost certain

 

[Bob Loblaw]

He's picked up five red cards over the duration of his career, but not one last season. At the age of 24, I suppose that's quite a lot, although I don't know what is statistically the average for someone that age. Anyway, it could be part and parcel of a player who is aggressive and completes a lot of tackles anyway. As you say, we've lacked physicality and aggression in midfield for years, so I would rather we have a player like that who is prone to poor challenges than someone who is tentative and passive in midfield like Cleverley for example.

Would guess 5 red cards by that age is above average. It's not Sergio Ramos bad but it's pretty high, nearly 60 yellow cards too!

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

He looks like Woody from Toy Story, I've decided.

 

[Gladiator]

Reading through this thread, surprised by some of the over-critical comments. We should be more prudent when the season actually starts. Even good/great performances can be overblown. It's not easy for any player to shine against teams who reduce the space and after the Galaxy performance I think it was to be expected. Especially against Inter who matched up against us with a default 3-5-2 formation. Like Shaw, think it's clear they've shown enough that they will be good signings for us. I dont understand how anyone could get worried.

Making predictions that he will only thrive when there's open spaces based off these games (sometimes only 45 min cameo) is a bit silly imo because he's shown before he can handle when the game is tighter. However, in these situations having a good understanding with your teammates is helpful in reducing the errant passes in tight spaces.

 

[Red Stone]

That is a child, I'm almost certain

Nah, he's just naturally youthful.

 

[herokiller84]

Will become a hybrid of robson and scholes.





Ma slight tendency to get over excited.

 

[Sam]

That is a child, I'm almost certain

Nah its defiantly Herrera.

 

[sullydnl]

I think his first game might have built expectations up a bit too much (especially amongst those of us who haven't really seen too much of him before now). That game gave us a glimpse of his talent and potential but I get the feeling the performances we'll see from him this season will be a lot closer to what we've seen in the games since. He is currently far from the finished article so we shouldn't expect too much from him just yet.

He'll have to be careful not to pick up too many cards though. Aggression is definitely a good thing (and it should ensure he has an easier time adapting to the PL too) but some of his tackles against Liverpool were a bit stupid. Being a dirty, niggly fouling bastard is only a plus if you can actually get away with it. Otherwise you become a bit of a liability.

 

[Vato]

Could someone please do an 'Ander's Game' out of this?

Gonna need his smiling face inside/on top of the helmet!

Dunno if this is good enough, Olly could probably do a much better job.

 

[gooDevil]

Dunno if this is good enough, Olly could probably do a much better job.

It's brilliant! You've made my day sir

 

[ChrisG11]

I'm with Pogue in terms of my perception of his performances thus far. Brilliant first game but in my opinion he's been pretty invisible ever since.

I have no doubts as to the lads ability, but he needs to tweak his game a little if he is to be more effective as a player in midfield - especially for ourselves. At the moment, I see a player who moves off the ball for moving off the balls sake far too much. Sometimes the best midfielders know when to just stay still and provide a better option for a pass whereas Herrera moves forward after laying it off every single time, which might draw attention but it means he is now in a difficult position to receive the pass again... which leads to the fluidity of the move being affected, with inevitable passes to the side or back to the centre-back. Basically he is making it hard for the likes of Fletcher etc to find him.

Another issue I have is his failure to make the ball 'stick'. Likes of Scholes and Xavi, hold on to that ball the right time before releasing, same goes for Pirlo... they don't ball hog, but they realise just by being on the ball... they're giving their team a lift and controlling the game. It also gives them more time to make a more meaningful pass.. but at the same time they have the ability to move it around quicker, just to mix it up and not get caught on it. Herrera in the first game - struck the right balance, but I've seen him a fair few times for Bilbao and his games v Roma/Inter.. where he just gets it and one touch passes it to someone else. It helps his passing %s look good, but in terms of him controlling the game, its useless if he is going to do that all the time... we need him to get on the ball and drive with it, making things happen.. not laying it off to the likes of Fletch and Clverely, forcing them to 'direct' the game. He needs to take responsibility and conduct the game.

Final issue, quality of passing.. he hits a brilliant through ball, but his mid range passing and long passing needs more work. I think it is linked with the problem of not holding onto the ball long enough, he rushes his passes. Slow the game down and he will make more accurate meaningful passes.

That's just the way Spaniards are taught to play, if anything our players need to work towards such fluidity. Passing the ball and moving forward actually helps the likes of Fletcher, as it drags a player away and makes space for him to move into, and then he's ready to contribute higher up the field should we work the ball around the opposition. With regards to giving one touch balls straight back to players; again, making space only this time higher up the field as it's drawn someone out of position to press him.

All such small factors of the Spanish game that make them so successful, not just for keeping the ball but for knackering the opposition out. Imagine running 5-10 yards out of position for 70 minutes, you'd start getting fed up and either you'd fail to get back quickly enough or you'd just stay in formation, in which he can then turn and look to be more direct.

 

[Brightonian]

Another issue I have is his failure to make the ball 'stick'. Likes of Scholes and Xavi, hold on to that ball the right time before releasing, same goes for Pirlo... they don't ball hog, but they realise just by being on the ball... they're giving their team a lift and controlling the game. It also gives them more time to make a more meaningful pass.. but at the same time they have the ability to move it around quicker, just to mix it up and not get caught on it. Herrera in the first game - struck the right balance, but I've seen him a fair few times for Bilbao and his games v Roma/Inter.. where he just gets it and one touch passes it to someone else. It helps his passing %s look good, but in terms of him controlling the game, its useless if he is going to do that all the time... we need him to get on the ball and drive with it, making things happen.. not laying it off to the likes of Fletch and Clverely, forcing them to 'direct' the game. He needs to take responsibility and conduct the game.

Argh no! This has been one of my favourite things about him so far! It would be one thing if all his passes were just passive lay-offs, but he's noticeably aggressive in his passing, looking to push the ball forward and make things happen. And the speed with which he does that, trying to never linger on the ball for longer than necessary, just makes our attacks that much harder to respond to. Gives the midfield that he passes through less time to react and try and get back whilst Mata, Rooney or whoever is receiving that pass and using it.

As for the passes that are more passive, the lay-offs and sideways balls... high tempo is the way that you make passes like that valuable. The criticism people often have of Cleverley, or of Carrick last season, is that they make those sorts of passes but they take two touches thinking about it before doing so. As a result the pass does nothing for our fluidity or tempo, and can never lead to a nice pass-and-move manoeuvre. You can't make pass and move work unless it's bang bang bang, pass move pass move, no sitting on the ball for three seconds between those quick short passes. You're trying to pull the opposition out of shape while they chase the ball, and that doesn't work if you give them a breather between each little movement to recover their positioning.

Herrera hasn't been individually brilliant in every game on tour. He was exceptional against Galaxy, impressive against Madrid, average against Inter and Roma and fairly awful (like everyone else) against Liverpool. But make no mistake, his introduction has a great deal to do with the fast, aggressive pass-and-move that people have been so pleased with so far under Van Gaal. And it's all about that quality of looking to release every pass as early as possible, to always keep the ball moving.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Nah, he's just naturally youthful.

Nah its defiantly Herrera.

the girl...

 

[CapeTownRed]

the girl...

Whoosh...