The problem is LVG had that oaf also known as Fellaini playing in the #10 position, and for some reason he was playing as a deep-lying midfielder, which he isn't.
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Don't you think that is a trait of LvG. Instead of playing players in the positions that attracted the club to them in the first place, he will insist of trying to remould them into something else. You wouldn't dare admit to him that when you were 5 you played one game at LB as that will be your position for the rest of the season.
As the attacking box-to-box in a three man midfield. This can be done in a lot of ways, but just to highlight a couple:
1. Surround him with a passer/ creator who can control the tempo of the game (like Thiago), and a defensive midfielder/ defensive box to box who can work from deeper areas (Javi). This will allow Ander to link up with the forwards and go on barnstorming runs, while also providing energy to your midfield because of his relentless running/ pressing style.
2. Surround him with a defensive box to box, and a holding midfielder who is an expert at passing from deeper areas (like Xabi Alonso or Carrick from last season). Pretty much the same as above in terms of what he will do. Ander will provide loads of energy, workrate, quick one touch play, and just hound the opposition into submission like he did at Athletic Club for Bielsa.
IMO, we have the players to field that kind of midfield:
-------Schweinsteiger----------------------------Ander---------
-----------------------------Schneiderlin------------------------
As soon as we signed Fußballgott and Schneiderlin in the summer, I for one thought we would see this lineup as a progression of our 4-1-4-1 from last season, or maybe sometimes Carrick in Schneiderlin's position and Morgan operating as the left sided defensive box to box. For some odd reason, we have done the exact opposite and IMO aren't playing to the strength of our midfield personnel. Playing Ander in front of a static midfield with an unresponsive striker like Rooney up front, or as a midfield pivot (which restricts his mobility) is just so counterproductive because Ander thrives on movement and quick passing moves.
For some reason, under both David and Van Gaal, we've had problems fitting players in their best positions (Fellaini and Kagawa under the former, and too many to name under the latter). And it's really sad in a way because these kind of players will leave, and start performing for their new clubs (no one epitomizes this better than Kagawa who's back to his best in a fluid system under Tuchel).
oh yeah I can as well say 10 and 10..
anyway if you watched the game you could see how many times Herrera won the ball for us, might be a combination of two players in that regard but he was always the one involved when we won the ball with his great passing, forcing a player to go over the line etc.. the points stays the same, he was defensively very good, the only player in midfield who contributed to that aspect of our game there
true. It's the same trait that saw ADM being made into a left sided central midfielder one game and a striker the next; Daley Blind a centre-half; Martial a left winger and Young pretty much every position other than GK. He thinks he's some sort of managerial Yoda when in fact these ideas are only best tried out in a Football Manager game.You'd make numbers up then, I'm talking straight statistics here.
I watched the game, he won the ball for us three times, he's probably lost it far more times than he recovered it. His passing was hardly amazing, it was 80% correct and only 20 of his passes out of 59 were forward. To say that he was 'defensively very good' is borderline delusion, unless we're trying to glorify him as 'the best midfielder from our team today' which still doesn't say much as we've had three clowns in the midfield today and probably around 9 overall on the pitch.
So yea, it's actually nice seeing what you want to see, probably makes the life a bit more enjoyable but then you don't really want to tell people that they should watch the game.
That still tickles me before games on MUTV when they announce the team and everyone says their name and position and poor Ashley just says Ashley Young. Even he doesn't know what he is.
We are all only seeing what we want to see including you. Not taking into account if the formation suits, conditions, fitness, if your teammates are pulling their weight.
Oh, but I really am, I don't blame Herrera, mind you, I blame LVG for all the mess that's happening right now. But I can't really understand some people's need to make shit up. You really have to be delusional to claim that Herrera played well today when the team gets outplayed by a fecking Stoke away, he's completing 80% of passes and our midfield (as a unit) is nonexistant and he's obviously one of the culprits of it.
I, just like most of people here, was a fan of his when we played 4141 last season and he was one of the #8s, made this point numerous times. He, however, does not work well in double #6 role or the #10 role either. For some reason, even when we've played with 2 of our last season's #8s, LVG decides to force them to play as a #10 and it doesn't work for some reason. Last season those two #8s had their roles outlined and knew what to do, nowadays it seems that whoever drops to #10 doesn't know what to do.
I'm pretty sure that Ander will get back to his fine form once LVG's out of the door and if we insist on playing in a system that suits him. But to claim that he's doing fine this season, in whatever position really, is simply not true.
Sorry I will then make you a favour and wont reply to your comments anymore you clearly dont see football as a team sport and the logic behind it, Herrera contributed well to our defensive play today and showed some grit unlike other players who failed to contribute to the game, you can bring up the statistics but it says as much as that carrick had 90% passing acc. We were criticized for not taking risks and trying and when a player who played three games over two months finally tries, he's nothing but criticized while being entirely overlooked his defensive contribution, if you want to use just statistics to measure that then you can actually watch teletext.
People should take some positives form our game and not only criticize and sound grumpy about a player who deserved a bit of credit, the one of two or three today..
He didn't play well, no, as you say that is yet again down to the manager. He seems at time to be able to pick a pretty good team, until it actually takes to the field and you realise he has most of them in the wrong position. That is a real knack.
So we should pretend that something positive has happened today when there was absolutely nothing positive on the pitch? Alrighty then. Mind you that 'my favourite player played today which is a positive' is not really a positive in my book.
@DomesticTadpole Glad we agree.
So, it's everyone else's fault,except his. I don't know why it's so difficult for people to just say their favourite player was poor on this a particular day. A great player should be able to make those around him look better.
He's not a great player though, he's a damn good player. Carrick is supposed to be the great player.
He's a good player, but I feel judgement of him is clouded by his personality, he seems to be a great guy, most people like him. But he hasn't done it consistently at United [for many reasons, some of which are beyond his control] and that's how it is right now, for me atleast. He needs to do more to earn that level of loyalty. All in all, he's a good player [am not sure what his best position is] but he's nowhere near worldclass for now, and am not sure he's as good as United fans want us to believe. Having said that, when everyone is fit, he, along with Schneiderlin & Schweinsteiger should be starting in midfield.
I don't think Carrick is great, he's a good player & so too is Herrera, but he was poor today. Most things I read here about Herrera gives an impression of a great player, so, I expect his presence to have that effect on his mates.
Ander needs someone world class in there with him. Carrick has never been world class, no matter how some fans have overhyped him. Problem is of course unless the board act and bring in a world renown manager and we don't plummet down the league, that world class player will not materialise.
quote me where I said its not his fault, sure it is his fault as well he's part of the team a disfunctional one and I criticised him for his passing but he contributed to the team more than anyone except young.
Beside that have you ever played football I mean competitively, every week 90 mins? Have you played midfield? And have you tried that on your own. Say I was kinda Herrera type of player, covering a lot of ground, tryna be creative at the same time and this happened to me quite a lot of times when I played for the older group, we didnt have fellaini but played two strikers instead and had exactly this kind of player (Carrick), this experienced fella who was great on the ball but he was fecking walking on the pitch unable to catch the tempo, I was there for the running it was insane at times, I was desperate to make a bit more contribution but I couldnt simply because I wasted all my energy for the basic things, sacrificing for the team..
so I think I kinda understand whats going on the pitch right now, while other people seem to only watch football from tv and playing fifa, thinking they played football at PE at school or for univ and know how it works but I wont tell its you or others but there are certainly many of them here judging by the comments.
And again Im not justifying Herrera's performance but he was there today on his own trying to contribute while others didnt even try with much more experience and expectation to perform. I dont expect a player coming after such a long time out without any match rhytm to a disfunctional team without any confidence to come and change suddenly everything..
I honestly think this is one of the things I most look forward to in a new manager: buying players and playing them in their proper position. And if they're not good enough in their proper position (Fellaini, Rooney, possibly Mata,) then they shouldn't be part of the team.
I don't what people expect from Herrera when he's on the field with Fellaini, it was the same with Mata at #10, the way we play with Fellaini on the pitch deprives either player of a partner, a player to link up with, he is too far up the pitch (plays more as a second striker). It's almost as if they are on their own bringing the ball out from the back with very little support.
Fellaini should not be in the squad to start with once we sort this issue out then we can start building a cohesively functional midfield.
Fellaini should not be in the squad to start with once we sort this issue out then we can start building a cohesively functional midfield.
Herrera........Carrick
Mata
Schneiderlin
Herrera.............Bastian
Mata
Schneiderlin
Herrera.............Bastian
He should have been in Fellaini's position.
He's a high energy player. Whether it's Mourinho, Guardiola or van Gaal - I don't see him lasting long at the club.
None of them are going to consistently play a high-energy system like that Bilbao team. And that's what he needs.
He's not a measured player. It's been nice having him.
It's a shame, because this team needs a bit of 'Bilbao' to their game.
None of them are going to consistently play a high-energy system like that Bilbao team. And that's what he needs.
He's not a measured player. It's been nice having him.
It's a shame, because this team needs a bit of 'Bilbao' to their game.
Bielsa it is then.
What exactly is Fellaini's position?
He should take Fellaini's spot in the starting 11 but should play a totally different role to him.
Sorry, I meant as an advanced AM No. 10. Not a useless lump hoping we hoof the ball to him No. 10.
Agree
Klopp. *hides*
That would have been a good shout, successful and enthusiastic.
He was bad yesterday but I won't blame him too much as he's recently returned from injury.
One of the reasons I want Jose to be our manager is because I believe he'll elevate Herrera's game to another level as he's done with many other midfielders such as Lampard, Sneijder, Maniche, Essien, Cambiasso, Motta, Deco etc. Jose loves well rounded MF's that can attack and defend and Herrera is exactly that.
LvG seems to think Herrera is a No.10 and can't be trusted in midfield but we saw last season that his best performances came in a sort of box to box role.
One of the reasons I want Jose to be our manager is because I believe he'll elevate Herrera's game to another level as he's done with many other midfielders such as Lampard, Sneijder, Maniche, Essien, Cambiasso, Motta, Deco etc. Jose loves well rounded MF's that can attack and defend and Herrera is exactly that.
LvG seems to think Herrera is a No.10 and can't be trusted in midfield but we saw last season that his best performances came in a sort of box to box role.
I think he could have a bit of a run under Mourinho, possibly as his #10. He has just as much of a goal threat and is far more creative than Oscar was at his best.
Rooney does still exist, though.
Yeah, I don't see why Mourinho wouldn't like him. Hardworking, mobile, not afraid of a tackle but still has good technical ability - Jose likes these kind of players.
He's quality. He needs to play week in week out. Playing 1 game in 5 won't let us see the best of him. He had a poor game yday, but who didn't ?
Man Utd 0:0 Chelsea
Always been the player to lay it off to the winger, good so far.
It's no wonder he's so overrated on here if this is what is deemed to be a good game. He's been very average, lucky not to have been booked a few times with rash challenges and ineffectual on the ball.
Nah he's been average today compared to his usual standards. Getting stuck in but on the ball he hasn't done all that much really. He can and usually does play a lot better then this.
Bang average. He suffers from Berbatov/Kagawa syndrome. Everyone wants him to be amazing but he's just average really.
He's done a better job in the hole than most would have today. Not really saying much though.
Seriously, what's your problem with him?
You didn't post for 7 days, you barely comment United players on here, and yet your last two posts in a row are about Herrera. One of them is about his tackle that was yellow at most, in half in which our players made far worse tackles.
At least admit you hate him for some reason, it's quite obvious.
Scousers don't like him because he had the nerve to be kicked by Stevie G.
I think he has always had an agenda against him, ever since we signed him. Bob is always quite objective here when it comes to United-Liverpool comparision here. Maybe he is just jealous Liverpool didn't sign him.
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