[ivaldo]

I did actually google before asking!

Nothing in there about being notified about a contract extension by post? And it’s a bit rich for him to get butt hurt by the club not wanting to negotiate a new contract when he was playing terribly and getting in touch with an offer when he finally started playing well, half way through the season.

Edited my post. So a bit about it there. There was another source saying the same thing but cannot be arsed to find that. Either way, significantly more reliable than the freelance cricket writer people keep referencing.

Hardly rich, he wasn't playing terribly, that's a exaggeration, and if winning the Sir Matt Busby award isn't enough to earn a ontract renewal, then I doubt it's performance related, particularly when you see some of the players who have had renewals since then. He's been nothing but a consummate professional during his time here, that can't be argued, so to be left completely in the dark 3 months before his contract is due to be up, and to be expected not to listen to clubs who are actually showing an interest in securing his services, is a bit much.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Edited my post. So a bit about it there. There was another source saying the same thing but cannot be arsed to find that. Either way, significantly more reliable than the freelance cricket writer people keep referencing.

Hardly rich, he wasn't playing terribly, that's a exaggeration, and if winning the Sir Matt Busby award isn't enough to earn a ontract renewal, then I doubt it's performance related, particularly when you see some of the players who have had renewals since then. He's been nothing but a consummate professional during his time here, that can't be argued, so to be left completely in the dark 3 months before his contract is due to be up, and to be expected not to listen to clubs who are actually showing an interest in securing his services, is a bit much.

He’s been pretty terrible throughout Mourinho’s spell in charge, so presumably wasn’t part of Mourinho’s plans for next season. Now Ole is rewarding improved performances with an offer of a new contract. All seems fair enough to me. Standard stuff at clubs where managers change frequently. And we’re definitely one of those now!

 

[ivaldo]

He’s been pretty terrible throughout Mourinho’s spell in charge, so presumably wasn’t part of Mourinho’s plans for next season.

Who hasn't been? He had been continuously dropped and by the end of the season, he was back to being an integral part of the side. He's never complained about that, not when Fred was brought in to replace him, or Matic before him. And despite being at the club for 5 years, and having those aforementioned players given bigger contracts than he, as well as players like Fellaini, Jones, Smalling, Mata, Rojo, Young etc, he's received nothing from the club, not even the courtesy of remaining actively in contact with him within his last 6 months of his current deal. We can hardly say it's an outrage if he's felt disillusioned. We've even offered Martial a new contract before him, a player that has demonstrated no willingness to better himself or his attitude since arriving.

 

[Greck]

Intelligence overrated?

Absolute nonsense.

Yes they're blaming the club because the club fecked up. They let him know about his automatic renewal via post. They left him in the dark for 3 months at the beginning of the year regarding renegotiations, and now want him to accept a contract lower than those offered by other clubs who were only alerted to his position because of United's complete negligence. And now we have ridiculous numbers like 250k and 300k being bandied around, despite all common sense suggesting that really aren't realistic, and people are willfully accepting these numbers are genuine because they're upset he doesn't want to bend the knee to a club thats treated him with contempt?

What I meant was obvious. For the benefit of those who don't rate him as high maybe you can give us a footballing description of what his fabled intelligence translates to on the pitch. If you've observed it then you must be able to describe it beyond the term

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Who hasn't been? He had been continuously dropped and by the end of the season, he was back to being an integral part of the side. He's never complained about that, not when Fred was brought in to replace him, or Matic before him. And despite being at the club for 5 years, and having those aforementioned players given bigger contracts than he, as well as players like Fellaini, Jones, Smalling, Mata, Rojo, Young etc, he's received nothing from the club, not even the courtesy of remaining actively in contact with him within his last 6 months of his current deal. We can hardly say it's an outrage if he's felt disillusioned. We've even offered Martial a new contract before him, a player that has demonstrated no willingness to better himself or his attitude since arriving.

What does “remaining actively in contact with” even mean? Mourinho didn’t rate him so didn’t want to offer him a new contract. Ole does, so did. This player who everyone seems to think would die for the club has decided he won’t accept that offer. That’s his perogative. Don’t see the need to feel sorry for him. That stuff comes with the territory during managerial change. If he hadn’t put in so many bad performances over the last two seasons (and let’s not pretend those bad performances didn’t happen) then things would have turned out differently.

 

[ivaldo]

What I meant was obvious. For the benefit of those who don't rate him as high maybe you can give us a footballing description of what his fabled intelligence translates to on the pitch. If you've observed it then you must be able to describe it beyond the term

Spacial, positional, tactical awareness. He knows when to press and when to sit. His versatility, genuine leadership qualities and an obvious understanding of the game. His movement and ball availability. Tactical fouls and exaggerations of fouls upon him may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he does it for a reason; he knows when attacks need to be broken up and when we need an injection of pace or for things to be slowed down. He lives and breathes football.

Now explain why he's unintelligent.

 

[ivaldo]

What does “remaining actively in contact with” even mean? Mourinho didn’t rate him so didn’t want to offer him a new contract. Ole does, so did. This player who everyone seems to think would die for the club has decided he won’t accept that offer. That’s his perogative. Don’t see the need to feel sorry for him. That stuff comes with the territory during managerial change. If he hadn’t put in so many bad performances over the last two seasons (and let’s not pretend those bad performances didn’t happen) then things would have turned out differently.

It means you don't leave a player in the dark in the last few months prior to his contract expiring. You think that's normal not to be at least in tentative stages of negotiations, or to at least to give a player assurances or an indication you aren't going to renew? Ole was appointed in December. He didn't hear anything until March. This 'die for the club' line keeps coming up; how many people have been saying this exactly? Players who have performed far worse than Herrera, who has show far less willingness, have had contract renewals, extensions and pay rises. I'm not saying we should feel sorry for the lad, but his dedication has hardly been rewarded. And now, after all the aforementioned shit, he's being called a money grabber and his prior commitment to the club is being called into question. Hardly fair, is it?

It's just shit management to allow a player like Herrera to leave on a free. This hasn't come about purely because PSG have offered him more, it's a consequence of poor player management.

 

[Greck]

Spacial, positional, tactical awareness. He knows when to press and when to sit. His versatility, genuine leadership qualities and an obvious understanding of the game. His movement and ball availability. Tactical fouls and exaggerations of fouls upon him may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he does it for a reason; he knows when attacks need to be broken up and when we need an injection of pace or for things to be slowed down. He lives and breathes football.

Now explain why he's unintelligent.

I'll do that as soon as you point out where I said that. My position is his intelligence isn't higher or lower than the rest. Those things you mentioned like spacial and tactical awareness aren't special for him or he'd be a genuine Matic replacement. Reality is he charges into tackles, vacates space often, gets stuck in and leaves the back exposed. He wins the ball a fair bit but there's a cost. That's without even talking about his limitations in possession.

 

[ivaldo]

I'll do that as soon as you point out where I said that. My position is his intelligence isn't higher or lower than the rest. Those things you mentioned like spacial and tactical awareness aren't special for him or he'd be a genuine Matic replacement. Reality is he charges into tackles, vacates space often, gets stuck in and leaves the back exposed. That's without even talking about his limitations in possession

No you're right, you didn't say that. Apologies.

He won player of the year playing as a defensive midfielder. They are a significant improvement on what Matic currently offers. I don't know how many more times he has to cover for Matic to show that. It's almost become a meme now. Our midfield is at 6s and 7s since his absence for a reason. The space he supposedly leaves is in abundance now. The reality is he was doing a bloody good job in plugging it. Between Pogbas reluctance to track runners and Matic's natural urge to drop deep to negate his complete lack of pace our midfield is a gaping hole. When a player presses the players behind need to step up. Matic does the opposite. Watch next time he players and you'll see why we are so wide open midfield (or simply check Sig's goal for Everton on the weekend for reference). Conversely think back to how we played when Ole first took over. It was front foot football, and Herrera was one of the catalysts for that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It means you don't leave a player in the dark in the last few months prior to his contract expiring. You think that's normal not to be at least in tentative stages of negotiations, or to at least to give a player assurances or an indication you aren't going to renew? Ole was appointed in December. He didn't hear anything until March. This 'die for the club' line keeps coming up; how many people have been saying this exactly? Players who have performed far worse than Herrera, who has show far less willingness, have had contract renewals, extensions and pay rises. I'm not saying we should feel sorry for the lad, but his dedication has hardly been rewarded. And now, after all the aforementioned shit, he's being called a money grabber and his prior commitment to the club is being called into question. Hardly fair, is it?

It's just shit management to allow a player like Herrera to leave on a free. This hasn't come about purely because PSG have offered him more, it's a consequence of poor player management.

Only just read the Mitten article you linked. So the offer was on the table ages ago. It was only a difference of opinion re wages. So he is, quite literally, a money grabber. Again, this is his perogative. So I don’t think he’s done anything wrong. Apart from not playing very well for large stretches of his United career. Footballers have short careers so should make as much money as possible.

I don’t think he’ll be missed tbh. He’ll be looked on as one of many mediocre players in an era full of mediocrity. Not quite as hapless as the likes of Phil Jones, Darmian, Bailly or end stage Rooney/Valencia/Young but still a very ordinary central midfielder. Jury’s still out on Fred but his range of passing and awareness of passing options really brings home how poor Hererra has been at these CM fundamentals.

 

[Sandikan]

Herrera has had a strange career with us.
From the gaffes trying to bring him in at the start, to most of his time here spending a lot of time out of the team, only to come in at some poor times, and play well, and make us think we'd missed a trick.

A decent season as the holding midfielder for sure, but Matic came in and showed what a real defensive mid should look like, and he was back on the bench.
Again this season, he came in after ages out, and looked really good for a small amount of time. Not quite the 6 game Cleverley-Anderson axis brevity, but not a lot longer.

In truth, a decent fighter, but neither defensive, attacking, or good enough on the ball to do any job excellently for us

Letting pint sized Noble lift him off the pitch is one memory I'll always have

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Herrera is a very ordinary player. He's been a good squad player, but can't sustain any type of form over a period of time. He's in love with football, and his passion is infectious, but he's not an integral player, and after 5 years will never become one.

It's disappointing we didn't get a fee for him, and that's mismanagement from the club. If we got a fee for him, no one would really care.

 

[-Supreme-]

Only just read the Mitten article you linked. So the offer was on the table ages ago. It was only a difference of opinion re wages. So he is, quite literally, a money grabber. Again, this is his perogative. So I don’t think he’s done anything wrong. Apart from not playing very well for large stretches of his United career.

I don’t think he’ll be missed tbh. He’ll be looked on as one of many mediocre players in an era full of mediocrity. Not quite as hapless as the likes of Phil Jones, Darmian, Bailly or end stage Rooney/Valencia/Young but still a very ordinary central midfielder. Jury’s still out on Fred but his range of passing and awareness of passing options really brings home how poor Hererra has been at these CM fundamentals.

Couldn't agree more. People need to understand it's not always the management fault that players contract not getting renewed sooner.

He won't be missed, his role at Utd can easily be replaced by someone younger in the squad like McTominay / Pereira.

 

[ivaldo]

Only just read the Mitten article you linked. So the offer was on the table ages ago. It was only a difference of opinion re wages. So he is, quite literally, a money grabber. Again, this is his perogative. So I don’t think he’s done anything wrong. Apart from not playing very well for large stretches of his United career. Footballers have short careers so should make as much money as possible.

I don’t think he’ll be missed tbh. He’ll be looked on as one of many mediocre players in an era full of mediocrity. Not quite as hapless as the likes of Phil Jones, Darmian, Bailly or end stage Rooney/Valencia/Young but still a very ordinary central midfielder. Jury’s still out on Fred but his range of passing and awareness of passing options really brings home how poor Hererra has been at these CM fundamentals.

Harsh. On that premise everyone is a money grabber unless they accept the first offer made? Wanting a fair, comparative salary and moving purely for money are two entirely different things, the latter being associated with ‘money grabbing.’ Come on.

I think it’s the opposite. Herreras ability to find a through ball or play out without being repeatedly caught on the ball in comparison to Fred is made only better by the huge number of ball recoveries he makes. I like Fred, and hope he does improve, but at the moment he provides a shadow of what Herrera does, across the board. Our record, results and statistics from the times before and after Herrera’s injuries is a damning for those that have stepped in during his absence. His ability to win the ball back is incredibly underrated. His defensive contribution is anything but mediocre, and the only player who can match or better it in the PL right now is Kante.
The abysmal performance from our midfield since his absence isn’t a coincidence.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Harsh. On that premise everyone is a money grabber unless they accept the first offer made? Wanting a fair, comparative salary and moving purely for money are two entirely different things, the latter being associated with ‘money grabbing.’ Come on.

I think it’s the opposite. Herreras ability to find a through ball or play out without being repeatedly caught on the ball in comparison to Fred is made only better by the huge number of ball recoveries he makes. I like Fred, and hope he does improve, but at the moment he provides a shadow of what Herrera does, across the board. Our record, results and statistics from the times before and after Herrera’s injuries is a damning for those that have stepped in during his absence. His ability to win the ball back is incredibly underrated. His defensive contribution is anything but mediocre, and the only player who can match or better it in the PL right now is Kante.
The abysmal performance from our midfield since his absence isn’t a coincidence.

Yeah and added to that I can't count the number of times he's got back in the right place to bale us out in defense. He just seems to have an instinct for danger, unlike so many of our players, who I think really lack intelligence. In fact I think we really lack intelligence as a team. Herrera makes the whole team better, but especially Pogba. Herrera is also excellent at carrying out specific man-marking jobs on players. He really would be a huge miss. He lived and breathed United up till now. He deserves better. From fans and board alike.

 

[VorZakone]

I like Herrera and I definitely still see a future for him at the club. Hopefully it works out between him and the club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Harsh. On that premise everyone is a money grabber unless they accept the first offer made? Wanting a fair, comparative salary and moving purely for money are two entirely different things, the latter being associated with ‘money grabbing.’ Come on.

I think it’s the opposite. Herreras ability to find a through ball or play out without being repeatedly caught on the ball in comparison to Fred is made only better by the huge number of ball recoveries he makes. I like Fred, and hope he does improve, but at the moment he provides a shadow of what Herrera does, across the board. Our record, results and statistics from the times before and after Herrera’s injuries is a damning for those that have stepped in during his absence. His ability to win the ball back is incredibly underrated. His defensive contribution is anything but mediocre, and the only player who can match or better it in the PL right now is Kante.
The abysmal performance from our midfield since his absence isn’t a coincidence.

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t really recognise the player you’re describing there. He’s a hard working player - which makes him stand out a country mile in our team of slackers - but there’s a whole bunch of CMs as good or better than him in the PL. And not all of them at top four clubs. Kante is in an entirely different league to him, that’s for sure.

 

[fps]

With the exception of Pogba, who in a better team would be much further up the field, Herrera is the best of a poor bunch in midfield. He also plays with a lot of determination. These aren't good reasons to keep him, though. I'd struggle to identify his specific outstanding talents, or how those talents would help you win a Premier League title.

 

[ivaldo]

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t really recognise the player you’re describing there. He’s a hard working player - which makes him stand out a country mile in our team of slackers - but there’s a whole bunch of CMs as good or better than him in the PL. And not all of them at top four clubs. Kante is in an entirely different league to him, that’s for sure.

Fair enough. I guess it's just different values we hold in players.

 

[POF]

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t really recognise the player you’re describing there. He’s a hard working player - which makes him stand out a country mile in our team of slackers - but there’s a whole bunch of CMs as good or better than him in the PL. And not all of them at top four clubs. Kante is in an entirely different league to him, that’s for sure.

That is probably true but unfortunately none of them play for United. The fact the club are still trying to negotiate with him suggests they haven't got anyone lined up to replace him and will get fleeced for any replacement.

The club hasn't dealt with this well but I don't feel sorry for Herrera. He'll get a good move. I feel sorry for United because they will be left with the insipid immobile midfield, lacking in leadership that we have seen since he's been out of the team.

He's been a really key player under Ole and there is not a single reason why losing him on a free is a positive.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That is probably true but unfortunately none of them play for United. The fact the club are still trying to negotiate with him suggests they haven't got anyone lined up to replace him and will get fleeced for any replacement.

The club hasn't dealt with this well but I don't feel sorry for Herrera. He'll get a good move. I feel sorry for United because they will be left with the insipid immobile midfield, lacking in leadership that we have seen since he's been out of the team.

He's been a really key player under Ole and there is not a single reason why losing him on a free is a positive.

Which is a good description of our midfield with him in the team many many times. Sure he’s had some good games recently but he’s had many more poor games over the last few years. I don’t see any positive about losing him on a free but I do see a positive in the idea of building a midfield with much better players than him in it. Which should be well within our means. We’re not replacing Keane, Scholes or Carrick here. If we can’t upgrade a limited player like Hererra then we really are in big trouble.

 

[Foxbatt]

He has been a good player for us most of the time. Yes he has had poor games but he is much better than most of the other midfield players we have.
For sure he is a much better player than Jones, Smalling, Mata, Matic or Young.

 

[Johnbouche]

Spacial, positional, tactical awareness. He knows when to press and when to sit. His versatility, genuine leadership qualities and an obvious understanding of the game. His movement and ball availability. Tactical fouls and exaggerations of fouls upon him may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he does it for a reason; he knows when attacks need to be broken up and when we need an injection of pace or for things to be slowed down. He lives and breathes football.

I totally agree with all the above statement. Some people under rate his value but I believe a vital part of what is needed at our club. What he takes on to the pitch and they way his passion comes across off it is what a UTD player should be. People go on about lack of leaders and people to aspire to at this club. Herrera is everything a professional footballer should be first and foremost. He may not be as talented as some but its no coincidence that him being out of the team has also coincided with dire run of results. He is a leader, a professional, goes about his business in the right manner and it would be a massive mistake to let him go. You could buy a more talented player but what he brings to the team in terms of class is irreplaceable.

 

[Steven-UK]

I think we are looking at Herrera through rose-tinted glasses. Before OGS arrived this lad was as average as they come.

Sure, he talks a good game in the post match interviews, but his ability on the pitch was always average. Passion after the game does not win matches.

No loss, there are many better players out there, and if we have intentions to fight for major titles again, then we need to up our game in all positions.

 

[TMDaines]

Still not particularly arsed if he leaves, but there’s a role for him if he wants to stay. It’s be quite sweet to have players using other top clubs as leverage for improved terms, as opposed to us being the ones being used.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

No you're right, you didn't say that. Apologies.

He won player of the year playing as a defensive midfielder. They are a significant improvement on what Matic currently offers. I don't know how many more times he has to cover for Matic to show that. It's almost become a meme now. Our midfield is at 6s and 7s since his absence for a reason. The space he supposedly leaves is in abundance now. The reality is he was doing a bloody good job in plugging it. Between Pogbas reluctance to track runners and Matic's natural urge to drop deep to negate his complete lack of pace our midfield is a gaping hole. When a player presses the players behind need to step up. Matic does the opposite. Watch next time he players and you'll see why we are so wide open midfield (or simply check Sig's goal for Everton on the weekend for reference). Conversely think back to how we played when Ole first took over. It was front foot football, and Herrera was one of the catalysts for that.

I agree. The bolded is also infuriating, doubly so when you think how poor Matic has become at tracking midfield runners, meaning he'll be nowhere near the man with the ball nor the likely recipient of the pass. Herrera is the best at this kind of positional play in our team, which while not being a particularly high bar these days makes the way his situation's been handled downright bizarre.

Only just read the Mitten article you linked. So the offer was on the table ages ago. It was only a difference of opinion re wages. So he is, quite literally, a money grabber. Again, this is his perogative. So I don’t think he’s done anything wrong. Apart from not playing very well for large stretches of his United career. Footballers have short careers so should make as much money as possible.

I don’t think he’ll be missed tbh. He’ll be looked on as one of many mediocre players in an era full of mediocrity. Not quite as hapless as the likes of Phil Jones, Darmian, Bailly or end stage Rooney/Valencia/Young but still a very ordinary central midfielder. Jury’s still out on Fred but his range of passing and awareness of passing options really brings home how poor Hererra has been at these CM fundamentals.

I know a short Youtube video can make any average player look good, but we can at least see Herrera passing the ball forwards, imaginatively and at pace in 2019. Maybe you could argue he should be doing this more often but I can't see how Fred's contributions have shown Herrera up as a poor CM this year.

 

[Patrick08]

Still not particularly arsed if he leaves, but there’s a role for him if he wants to stay. It’s be quite sweet to have players using other top clubs as leverage for improved terms, as opposed to us being the ones being used.

I know a short Youtube video can make any average player look good, but we can at least see Herrera passing the ball forwards, imaginatively and at pace in 2019. Maybe you could argue he should be doing this more often but I can't see how Fred's contributions have shown Herrera up as a poor CM this year.

His passing vision from he deep in not that good though, his passing can be very effective in a high pressing team playing in opponents half near opponents goal. He has been misused by both lvg and jose playing so deep defensive football without high pressing. He is an asset if we are going to play high energy high press football and he won't be replaced that easily given the ambition of this board.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree. The bolded is also infuriating, doubly so when you think how poor Matic has become at tracking midfield runners, meaning he'll be nowhere near the man with the ball nor the likely recipient of the pass. Herrera is the best at this kind of positional play in our team, which while not being a particularly high bar these days makes the way his situation's been handled downright bizarre.




I know a short Youtube video can make any average player look good, but we can at least see Herrera passing the ball forwards, imaginatively and at pace in 2019. Maybe you could argue he should be doing this more often but I can't see how Fred's contributions have shown Herrera up as a poor CM this year.

So I watched the video and it really just confirms my opinion. So often his passes are just a little 'off'. Not quite into a team-mates stride. There's maybe, at a stretch, two(?) passes in that whole compilation you could describe as anything other than routine. With many more examples of the "hooooof" panicky clearances he's kind of made his trademark. And that's his very best moments, from his very best few games of the season, with all the bad passes edited out!


Here's a video of Fred from one game. Every pass included, warts and all. He makes two bad passes in total but you can clearly see he is a far more competent passer of the football than Hererra, when you compare this with the "highlights" you posted above (skip to 4:18 for a pass you won't see Hererra execute in a month of Sundays). Now this is damning by faint praise. Because the jury is definitely still out on Fred. My only point is that I'm finding it hard to care about losing a CM whose choice and range of pass is so obviously limited when the last few seasons have been so scarred by piss poor passing and movement. If Fred (or another new signing) can do all the other CM stuff well enough to take Hererra's place in the team we'll be a much better footballing side as a result.

 

[POF]

Which is a good description of our midfield with him in the team many many times. Sure he’s had some good games recently but he’s had many more poor games over the last few years. I don’t see any positive about losing him on a free but I do see a positive in the idea of building a midfield with much better players than him in it. Which should be well within our means. We’re not replacing Keane, Scholes or Carrick here. If we can’t upgrade a limited player like Hererra then we really are in big trouble.

In simplistic terms I agree with this but with Ole trying to play a high tempo game, Herrera is one of the only options in midfield who suits that style.

Without him the midfield gets overrun because they are outrun. Matic gets bypassed by stationary objects and Pogba (although he is an incredible athlete) can't be bothered most of the time.

If United went out and bought a top quality, high energy ball winning midfielder and a world class midfield playmaker to play with Pogba in a 3, I would be fine with it. It would at least show some semblance of planning and I think that would improve the side. But since they're still negotiating with Herrera, it suggests they have no such plans.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In simplistic terms I agree with this but with Ole trying to play a high tempo game, Herrera is one of the only options in midfield who suits that style.

Without him the midfield gets overrun because they are outrun. Matic gets bypassed by stationary objects and Pogba (although he is an incredible athlete) can't be bothered most of the time.

If United went out and bought a top quality, high energy ball winning midfielder and a world class midfield playmaker to play with Pogba in a 3, I would be fine with it. It would at least show some semblance of planning and I think that would improve the side. But since they're still negotiating with Herrera, it suggests they have no such plans.

I honestly don't think the people making decisions about contracts/signings at the club have any idea what sort of a team we're building. But that's a whole other discussion.

 

[POF]

I honestly don't think the people making decisions about contracts/signings at the club have any idea what sort of a team we're building. But that's a whole other discussion.

Agreed, but it's pretty clear to everyone else what sort of team they're building. A really bad one.

 

[11101]

Only just read the Mitten article you linked. So the offer was on the table ages ago. It was only a difference of opinion re wages. So he is, quite literally, a money grabber. Again, this is his perogative. So I don’t think he’s done anything wrong. Apart from not playing very well for large stretches of his United career. Footballers have short careers so should make as much money as possible.

I don’t think he’ll be missed tbh. He’ll be looked on as one of many mediocre players in an era full of mediocrity. Not quite as hapless as the likes of Phil Jones, Darmian, Bailly or end stage Rooney/Valencia/Young but still a very ordinary central midfielder. Jury’s still out on Fred but his range of passing and awareness of passing options really brings home how poor Hererra has been at these CM fundamentals.

Herrera is a player who is often better off the ball than on it. He applies pressure on the first man with the ball and forces a mistake, and then someone closes the second man so we can win the ball off the slightly rushed pass or loose touch. They're then the one who brings the ball forward or plays the great passes. Matic was doing that but he can't cover the ground anymore. It doesn't matter how good a player we have in Herrera's place, if there isn't someone there doing the sweeping up they will be chasing shadows.

Fred actually seems like he might be capable of both jobs but he still needs another player to work with him in there or he'll look as lost as he always does when he plays with Matic. It looks like he has a good understanding with McTominay but it's early days yet. Fred and Herrera have actually never played together and i think they might be alright.

 

[Kaglish10]

In simplistic terms I agree with this but with Ole trying to play a high tempo game, Herrera is one of the only options in midfield who suits that style.

Without him the midfield gets overrun because they are outrun. Matic gets bypassed by stationary objects and Pogba (although he is an incredible athlete) can't be bothered most of the time.

If United went out and bought a top quality, high energy ball winning midfielder and a world class midfield playmaker to play with Pogba in a 3, I would be fine with it. It would at least show some semblance of planning and I think that would improve the side. But since they're still negotiating with Herrera, it suggests they have no such plans.

Reading all through the thread, one notion that kept coming up was "we've been poor without him." For crying out loud, Herrera played in the Arsenal, Wolves and PSG matches and was awful in all of them. We've been poor with him in the team. I don't even think we would have progressed against PSG if he had played that match.

This narration needs to stop.

 

[Chairman Steve]

We’re really cutting our nose off to spite our face with him arent we?

 

[Eric7C]

We’re really cutting our nose off to spite our face with him arent we?

Is he even injured anymore? What's happening.

Those days of Herrera, Matic and Pogba bossing midfields seems such a long time ago.

 

[POF]

Reading all through the thread, one notion that kept coming up was "we've been poor without him." For crying out loud, Herrera played in the Arsenal, Wolves and PSG matches and was awful in all of them. We've been poor with him in the team. I don't even think we would have progressed against PSG if he had played that match.

This narration needs to stop.

He didn't play against Arsenal, so you've named 2 games. One against one of the best teams in Europe and the other where he was just coming back from injury.

What about the 8 wins and one draw in 9 games in the league under Ole? Or the away wins at Arsenal and Chelsea in the cup when he was superb? It's a narrative because it's true.

When United were on that really good run, they rotated in defence and attack but the midfield 3 stayed the same. Even just watching the games, my reaction was "how will they be able to play like this if he gets injured". Turns out they can't.

 

[Kaglish10]

He didn't play against Arsenal, so you've named 2 games. One against one of the best teams in Europe and the other where he was just coming back from injury.

What about the 8 wins and one draw in 9 games in the league under Ole? Or the away wins at Arsenal and Chelsea in the cup when he was superb? It's a narrative because it's true.

When United were on that really good run, they rotated in defence and attack but the midfield 3 stayed the same. Even just watching the games, my reaction was "how will they be able to play like this if he gets injured". Turns out they can't.

He was poor under Mourinho. Also, the whole team had a few great run under Ole. Even Matic looked refresh in those games (mostly against relegation candidate teams though) and afterwards, everything came crashing and it didn't exclude Herrera from it.

Need to add that de gea saved us against Spurs and we were awful against Leicester. Our best runs came against relegation candidates. The only top team we looked good against were Chelsea in the FA cup and Arsenal who hadn't come up with a 3-man defence to hide Xhaka's flaw then.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Is he even injured anymore? What's happening.

Cricked his neck after looking in the direction of Paris I believe.

 

[POF]

He was poor under Mourinho. Also, the whole team had a few great run under Ole. Even Matic looked refresh in those games (mostly against relegation candidate teams though) and afterwards, everything came crashing and it didn't exclude Herrera from it.

Need to add that de gea saved us against Spurs and we were awful against Leicester. Our best runs came against relegation candidates. The only top team we looked good against were Chelsea in the FA cup and Arsenal who hadn't come up with a 3-man defence to hide Xhaka's flaw then.

The attack and defence rotated but the one constant through that run was the midfield 3. Due to Matic's lack of mobility and Pogba's lack of effort, he is the key man in that midfield 3. It doesn't work without him.

Now, how often do you notice Matic's lack of mobility and teams running straight through the United midfield? Or loose balls in midfield when only an opposition player goes for it? Or how often do you notice Pogba's lack of effort because nobody is covering him. Or how easily do teams play through or around United at the edge of the box where previously Herrera would make a key interception. Or teams breaking in behind United's right back where Herrera previously provided the cover.

United play away at Everton, a performance labelled one of the worst in the club's history. It was the nadir of the recent poor run. A performance lacking passion, leadership and intelligence - 3 of Herrera's greatest strengths. Yet, people still can't see the value he brings?

The results speak for themselves. The performances on the pitch speak for themselves. It's bizarre how people refuse to accept it.

 

[bond19821982]

Agree - we miss him clearly . He is replaceable but we don't have an option in our squad to replace his skillsets.

Fred isn't as good as Herrera on the ball.