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And this key was missing against PSG, Wolves, Spurs and Leicester where we looked terrible? I can bet that we wouldn't have advanced against PSG if we had the same midfield that Verratti dominated in the first leg.The attack and defence rotated but the one constant through that run was the midfield 3. Due to Matic's lack of mobility and Pogba's lack of effort, he is the key man in that midfield 3. It doesn't work without him.
Now, how often do you notice Matic's lack of mobility and teams running straight through the United midfield? Or loose balls in midfield when only an opposition player goes for it? Or how often do you notice Pogba's lack of effort because nobody is covering him. Or how easily do teams play through or around United at the edge of the box where previously Herrera would make a key interception. Or teams breaking in behind United's right back where Herrera previously provided the cover.
United play away at Everton, a performance labelled one of the worst in the club's history. It was the nadir of the recent poor run. A performance lacking passion, leadership and intelligence - 3 of Herrera's greatest strengths. Yet, people still can't see the value he brings?
The results speak for themselves. The performances on the pitch speak for themselves. It's bizarre how people refuse to accept it.
You can. Or you could just make an assessment based on things that actually happened rather than scenarios you imagine.And this key was missing against PSG, Wolves, Spurs and Leicester where we looked terrible? I can bet that we wouldn't have advanced against PSG if we had the same midfield that Verratti dominated in the first leg.
The truth is the whole squad is full of average players, Herrera inclusive.
You jest but 2-3 points could be the difference between getting top 4 and not. Champions League football and attracting top quality players has never been more important to United.We've really missed him. I'm sure if he hadn't missed the last 5-6 games we'd have 2-3 more points at least.
Fred is not responsible enough as a player. He's talented but plays like a 21 year old. We've missed that cohesion Matic Herrera and Pogba had. Of those three Herrera was the one that pulled it all together with Pogba giving us the flair. But he needs to be in form and interested for it to work like that again.Agree - we miss him clearly . He is replaceable but we don't have an option in our squad to replace his skillsets.
Fred isn't as good as Herrera on the ball.
I think the player we missed is Matic. Matic was on song in almost all of the games we played well. Matic was our best player in the season we came second. He's the only semblance to a playmaker in the team even if he's not really one.You can. Or you could just make an assessment based on things that actually happened rather than scenarios you imagine.
You are now using away wins in the Premier League as evidence to criticise him, one of those against a team who is in the semi final of the Champions League!
United played really well at Spurs. They ran out of gas in the last 30 minutes after the "mini pre season" but that was a very good performance overall.
That was a good game of Fred's, I (and many others) thought so when watching live and it's borne out in the stats and the video you posted. I'm also happy to concede Herrera's is not the level we should aspire to for midfield passing prowess, it needs to be better both in terms of ceiling and consistency.So I watched the video and it really just confirms my opinion. So often his passes are just a little 'off'. Not quite into a team-mates stride. There's maybe, at a stretch, two(?) passes in that whole compilation you could describe as anything other than routine. With many more examples of the "hooooof" panicky clearances he's kind of made his trademark. And that's his very best moments, from his very best few games of the season, with all the bad passes edited out!
Here's a video of Fred from one game. Every pass included, warts and all. He makes two bad passes in total but you can clearly see he is a far more competent passer of the football than Hererra, when you compare this with the "highlights" you posted above (skip to 4:18 for a pass you won't see Hererra execute in a month of Sundays). Now this is damning by faint praise. Because the jury is definitely still out on Fred. My only point is that I'm finding it hard to care about losing a CM whose choice and range of pass is so obviously limited when the last few seasons have been so scarred by piss poor passing and movement. If Fred (or another new signing) can do all the other CM stuff well enough to take Hererra's place in the team we'll be a much better footballing side as a result.
I don’t really disagree with any of that. Fred still has it all to prove. I stand by my point that we need better midfielders than Ander Hererra in our team if we’re ever going to get out of our ongoing funk.That was a good game of Fred's, I (and many others) thought so when watching live and it's borne out in the stats and the video you posted. I'm also happy to concede Herrera's is not the level we should aspire to for midfield passing prowess, it needs to be better both in terms of ceiling and consistency.
My point was that in my opinion Herrera has shown he can pass well. He could be more creative like he was for Athletic but in a deeper position for us his winning possession and laying it off quickly has been a great asset, particularly last season. I also disagreed with you that Fred has shown Herrera how it's done in terms of CM passing; while in the Barca game and a few others, such as the Wolves defeat, he did his job very well and was let down by teammates there have been too many like last night where he's given away passes which have put us under pressure. Has Fred (and Ander to be fair) been let down by abysmal movement from teammates? Certainly. Could he improve and become a great asset box-to-box, breaking up play and passing with speed, accuracy and intent? Possibly. Has he been that this season, to the point where he's shown Herrera the way home? Not for me.
Think how many saves De Gea made against Spurs. With Hererra in our team. Think how many he didn’t make last night. Think about whether Spurs are a much better team than City. Still think Hererra would have made a difference?
Most of them are living in La la Disney land.Think how many saves De Gea made against Spurs. With Hererra in our team. Think how many he didn’t make last night. Think about whether Spurs are a much better team than City. Still think Hererra would have made a difference?
We've really missed him. I'm sure if he hadn't missed the last 5-6 games we'd have 2-3 more points at least.
We do miss a player in his role but I think McT has done a good job filling in his role.Why is he still missing? Injury or transfer issues?
If the latter we need him to play now, hes a man united player taking a big wage. Earn it ffs.
We have definitely missed him.
Any player can have a bad game. Look at PSG in the 2nd legAnd this key was missing against PSG, Wolves, Spurs and Leicester where we looked terrible? I can bet that we wouldn't have advanced against PSG if we had the same midfield that Verratti dominated in the first leg.
The truth is the whole squad is full of average players, Herrera inclusive.
Yes but what PSG players showed in the 2nd leg isn't different from what we know.Any player can have a bad game. Look at PSG in the 2nd leg
What? Nonsense. In the first game our midfield didnt compete well. Ander has shown he's normally up for the big matches and puts in a monster pressing and ball winning performance. That didnt happen in the first game, he had a poor match like the rest of the midfield. So it was completely different to what we know about him from this season.Yes but what PSG players showed in the 2nd leg isn't different from what we know.
Mbappe's ball control under pressure has always been suspect regardless of his pace and good touch. Draxler is a lazy player and di Maria is simply a bellend. Marquinho is a defender playing in the midfield. It was only Verratti that set them apart in the 1st leg but was stifled by MCT in the 2nd leg match. If PSG had Neymar, they would have had more chances of getting through.
Nothing Herrera has shown would make us better than what we're. I would rather we bring in playmakers and someone like Saul Niguez/Lemina to complement these playmakers than give Herrera 200k contract. Everyone on heavy wages should be let go and that includes Sanchez, Pogba, Martial, Lingard, Matic and even Fred.
You dont think having our best big match player playing in a big match would have made a big difference?This is like when we were unbeaten with Carrick in the starting XI during the 16/17 season. Really didn't mean much back then and I doubt Herrera would make a huge difference right now.
I honestly don't.You dont think having our best big match player playing in a big match would have made a big difference?
He had a poor game and there's nothing to show he would have had a good game in the return leg.What? Nonsense. In the first game our midfield didnt compete well. Ander has shown he's normally up for the big matches and puts in a monster pressing and ball winning performance. That didnt happen in the first game, he had a poor match like the rest of the midfield. So it was completely different to what we know about him from this season.
And if PSG had played the second game in the first leg, you could have said the same thing so that makes no sense. Any player can have a bad game and our midfield all had a bad game. Having a bad game means they obviously didnt show anything. Its not about that game but about the bunch of other games where they played well. For Ander that includes several matches against big teams this season including Spurs. PSG are probably better sure but if he played like he did against Spurs he'd have helped us a lot.He had a poor game and there's nothing to show he would have had a good game in the return leg.
Anyway, I have problem with offering him 200k contract. He can take Mata away while we're at it. All the players are just giving me a head ache.
You mean there was a way Herrera would have renewed his gassing lungs in the second leg? he was puffing out lot of air and looked laboured in the first leg. He's not going to get better with his age. Anyway, He's never been a Kante's like player with a crazy lung. Like I said, I won't have him on 200k wage.And if PSG had played the second game in the first leg, you could have said the same thing so that makes no sense. Any player can have a bad game and our midfield all had a bad game. Having a bad game means they obviously didnt show anything. Its not about that game but about the bunch of other games where they played well. For Ander that includes several matches against big teams this season including Spurs. PSG are probably better sure but if he played like he did against Spurs he'd have helped us a lot.
I guess you dont watch us play on a weekly basis. That was one match where the whole team looked laboured. Usually hes our hardest working playerYou mean there was a way Herrera would have renewed his gassing lungs in the second leg? he was puffing out lot of air and looked laboured in the first leg. He's not going to get better with his age. Anyway, He's never been a Kante's like player with a crazy lung. Like I said, I won't have him on 200k wage.
The last part is key. I like Herrera, if for no other reason than his hard work, which he always did. I’d prefer to keep him, at least not lose him on a free.Which is a good description of our midfield with him in the team many many times. Sure he’s had some good games recently but he’s had many more poor games over the last few years. I don’t see any positive about losing him on a free but I do see a positive in the idea of building a midfield with much better players than him in it. Which should be well within our means. We’re not replacing Keane, Scholes or Carrick here. If we can’t upgrade a limited player like Hererra then we really are in big trouble.
Didn’t watch the game last night but Fred is much more comfortable passing off his weaker foot than Hererra.Fred made 1 tackle against City and had a 75% pass completion. He seems so one-footed it's unbelievable. Even in Herrera's worst games for us he's had better stats than that. We'll need to replace him with someone fairly exceptional.
I did, so I disagree.Didn’t watch the game last night but Fred is much more comfortable passing off his weaker foot than Hererra.
I watched us on daily basis and while I admit Herrera is a hard-working player, he's not the player to make us better. My vision for a united team is a possession based style which is a setup that has Herrera always found wanting. I never for once like his lack of vertical passes, even if they were just short ones and his movement is quite terrible and I'm not talking of going hung ho style on opponents. I would love him here as a squad player but on a 200k wage? Nah.I guess you dont watch us play on a weekly basis. That was one match where the whole team looked laboured. Usually hes our hardest working player
I dont want him on 200k either. But he makes our 2nd most passes forward after Pogba and has good movement going forward, which is why he has a couple of goals.I watched us on daily basis and while I admit Herrera is a hard-working player, he's not the player to make us better. My vision for a united team is a possession based style which is a setup that has Herrera always found wanting. I never for once like his lack of vertical passes, even if they were just short ones and his movement is quite terrible and I'm not talking of going hung ho style on opponents. I would love him here as a squad player but on a 200k wage? Nah.
Matic certainly wasn't our best player last season. He played very well for the first two or three months, then his form slowly but surely dropped away as the season wore on. In the second half of the season he was average at best, and decidedly poor in the last few months.I think the player we missed is Matic. Matic was on song in almost all of the games we played well. Matic was our best player in the season we came second. He's the only semblance to a playmaker in the team even if he's not really one.
But Herrera hardly played last season. I think it was between Matic and Lukaku.Matic certainly wasn't our best player last season. He played very well for the first two or three months, then his form slowly but surely dropped away as the season wore on. In the second half of the season he was average at best, and decidedly poor in the last few months.
Matic actually relies massively on Herrera being there doing all the dirty work. He's been atrocious all season, and the only time he's actually played well was that one or two month period when Herrera was there beside when Ole first took over. He's gone back to being terrible since the two of them got injured and Herrera hasn't really got going again.
I do agree with you that Pogba does need another playmaker in the team. I've been saying that since before we even officially signed him. But most playmakers aren't going to provide enough defensively, and so we are going to need the third midfielder to be mostly focused on their defensive duties. That's exactly what we've seen with Matic this season struggling whenever Herrera isn't there.
Actually, I'll change what I said about Pogba above, as so many people take it the wrong way. The better way of putting it is that Man Utd should have two players sharing the duties of controlling us around and creating the chances. Just like we have had during all our best teams, and just as almost every successful team of the last 20 years have had. Relying on just one person to do it all is absolutely ridiculous no matter who that person is, and invariably that person is going to struggle to do it consistently. If we sell Pogba and bring in just one player to handle those duties by themselves, it's pretty much guaranteed that person will struggle as well.
Matic had a couple of good months thats it. Lukaku wasnt that great but did score goals.But Herrera hardly played last season. I think it was between Matic and Lukaku.
That said, I would say Mourinho who signed Matic doesn't even know what he was doing with him because Matic's best display under him came in a 2-man midfield and that reminds me, it was the same way Conte was able to get the best out of him. It's ridiculous to think the ageing Matic could have done wonders in a lone holding midfield. Same happened with Schone for Ajax until Ajax coach started to deploy him in a 2-man midfield this season and besides that, he had him operating as the playmaker while Frenkie was saddled with building up play and operating as the last man to ensure Schone is constantly refreshed.
Of course, Matic isn't a playmaker but he's the only semblance to a playmaker in the team and at a stretch, for Conte's team when Chelsea won the league. The point is this team really need a playmaker badly.
