@Dyslexic Untied
Thanks buddy
Thanks buddy
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
Even last season Martial was directly involved in 10 league goals, despite never getting a consistent run in the team.
Jose's inability to get the best out of Martial or to trust him during a tricky spell is a blot on his copybook imo.
One bad game he is immediately dropped, hard to pick up form and confidence being treated this way.
Jose's inability to get the best out of Martial or to trust him during a tricky spell is a blot on his copybook imo.
One bad game he is immediately dropped, hard to pick up form and confidence being treated this way.
I tend to agree with you, but what do you really mean by 'technically'? 'Cos I get the feeling most people just mean "dribbling", you know?... I think it's potentially fair to say Rashford has so far demonstrated the greater aptitude for a broader set of skills. Crossing, shooting, dead ball prowess, decision making etc - all more evident in Rashford so far, but Martial's ability to dribble in close quarters (when it comes off) seems to instantly propel him into a higher technical category by default. I don't necessarily disagree with it either, I just find it mildly interesting. What makes one 'technical' and the other not?
That's the thing, I want to see it happen because so far I still have that feeling that he isn't rated that highly by the manager. He's surely rated less than Lingard, Rashford and Co as evidenced by them being trusted more.
I'd like to see proof as in Martial getting rewarded with starts and getting trusted in important games. A start against Real would be a start but somehow I'm pretty confident he isn't getting a start there nor anytime soon.
See despite his good performances he's just unlucky to find himself in his current situation. The manager has plans which don't favor him. All these new formations would only further omit him with them requiring more defensive minded players rather than players of his ilk.
And Mou seems to prefer Rashford as the striker over Martial while Lingard is more preferred as winger or wingback over Martial despite the latter having far more abilities than the other 2.
It's just what it is. Mou got to do what he feels is right(whether we agree or not) and Martial just happens to be unlucky with how things are.
Though I genuinely hope I'm wrong and you're onto something with me missing some subtle showing from Mou of him rating the kid highly and somehow preferring him but not showing it yet.
I think Martial is a lot more graceful on the ball than Rashford but he's obviously more developed physically. Rashford still has a touch of the gangly Welbecks about him sometimes so is slightly less appealing on the eye
Looked better much today.
Eager to get on the ball, made the angles to receive a pass, good link up play and generally looked like he was up for it.
Eager to get on the ball, made the angles to receive a pass, good link up play and generally looked like he was up for it.
One can easily see whether a player is technical good or bad just by watching without needing number proof or x sheet of stats. It's something noticeable by eyesight.
To be the type of player Martial is, one has to be very good technically and their talents technically is further shown with a ball at their feet.
Players like Hazard, Messi, Robben, Martial etc who dribble with the ball close or glue to their feet need to be excellent with a ball otherwise they'd never pull off any decent dribble while trying to keep the ball close to their feet.
And despite what some want to belive Martial has so much more than dribbling. It's quite amazing how these stories about him lacking in other departments beside dribbling have come to be. People just come up with random stuff which sometimes stick for some odd reasons.
To be the type of player Martial is, one has to be very good technically and their talents technically is further shown with a ball at their feet.
Players like Hazard, Messi, Robben, Martial etc who dribble with the ball close or glue to their feet need to be excellent with a ball otherwise they'd never pull off any decent dribble while trying to keep the ball close to their feet.
And despite what some want to belive Martial has so much more than dribbling. It's quite amazing how these stories about him lacking in other departments beside dribbling have come to be. People just come up with random stuff which sometimes stick for some odd reasons.
He needs to be more aggressive. Don't just stop, look to run at the opponents whenever you have the ball. He is too talented to fail but he needs to improve even more.
He was brilliant today
Comfortably our best player in the second half. Was always eager to make something happen with the ball at his feet and it showed. Really positive in his play and pulled off most of the things he tried, which was nice to see and a nice change from last season (still pre-season, I know).
Hopefully Jose has been convinced that Martial is eager to claw his way back into our starting eleven and most of all is determined to work hard to make it happen.
Really hope he starts against Madrid next week. Think he deserves it.
Hopefully Jose has been convinced that Martial is eager to claw his way back into our starting eleven and most of all is determined to work hard to make it happen.
Really hope he starts against Madrid next week. Think he deserves it.
His touch and dribbling are great, his finishing is very good, his passing is decent, but his crossing is nothing to write home about usually. Defensively he's willing but his tackling is fairly poor. I do think he's very good technically but if you just took passing and crossing for example, I think Rashford or Pogba are much better. To say one player is "better technically" is a bit too vague to be any use as an analysis surely?
Either way, he'll start the season as first choice until he proves whether he's worthy of it or not. No need to shoot your loads too soon!
Very good today, and I still think he is our second best creator behind Pogba. It really bugs me that he isn't fit into the team more, because he is probably our best chance when looking at where an increase of goals will come from within last years squad. He's the only player we have capable of consistently drawing double teams and beating his man.
I don't expect any of our attacking players to be great at tackling although it would be a nice bonus.
There's simply no reason for Mourinho not to start him more often. It's madness how little Martial has started in preseason.
Was very good today, hopefully he can keep it up
It's quite amazing how this place mentality has shifted from wanting attacking players of a skillful ilk to wanting attacking players whose strength are in their defensive caoabilities and crossing.
Suddenly Martial get picked apart for the simplest of mistake and all we hear now is how he should track back, his defensive game isn't good enough, doesn't run a lot etc.
Go back a year or 2 ago people didn't want to have none of that. They wanted their attackers to be offensive minded, putting in numbers and of a certain ilk. Now we hear cries for Perisic for his crosses when just over 3 years ago people started having nightmares because of too much crossing in our side(Fulham is the word), it was seen as a negative.
Players like Lingard's attributes have become more appreciated(running a lot, energy, movement, though no end product) while Martial's ones have become underplayed and people are quick to criticise him over not being some defensive sort of player.
His good performances are met with "but" following most of the compliments. Basically there is got to be something to nipick.
I never thought I'd see the day where pure attacking players like Martial would be looked less favorably for the defensive minded ones on the Caf. Well this is why they say fans are fickle. We got to justify via any means even if we have to exert ridiculous mental gymnastic the Boss decisions and preferences.
The Caf got brainwashed pretty quickly. What a shift in mentality.
Suddenly Martial get picked apart for the simplest of mistake and all we hear now is how he should track back, his defensive game isn't good enough, doesn't run a lot etc.
Go back a year or 2 ago people didn't want to have none of that. They wanted their attackers to be offensive minded, putting in numbers and of a certain ilk. Now we hear cries for Perisic for his crosses when just over 3 years ago people started having nightmares because of too much crossing in our side(Fulham is the word), it was seen as a negative.
Players like Lingard's attributes have become more appreciated(running a lot, energy, movement, though no end product) while Martial's ones have become underplayed and people are quick to criticise him over not being some defensive sort of player.
His good performances are met with "but" following most of the compliments. Basically there is got to be something to nipick.
I never thought I'd see the day where pure attacking players like Martial would be looked less favorably for the defensive minded ones on the Caf. Well this is why they say fans are fickle. We got to justify via any means even if we have to exert ridiculous mental gymnastic the Boss decisions and preferences.
The Caf got brainwashed pretty quickly. What a shift in mentality.
Last edited:
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
That's a fairly intresting point. Personally myself I think Martial is technically superior and in general just a better player currently. For me it's his understanding of those around him and that he is more creative. Rashford for me too often plays with his head down and just runs at people.
Today had two great examples of both Rashford should have played that ball to Martial when Martial ran from the half way line to get up to him and was wide open. Then you have Martial setting up Mata and that wasn't the first time he tried it.
Shooting I don't think I'd say Rashford is better but he might be better at shooting from distance however I think Martial has shown previous that in front of goal he has an ice cold streak.
Rashford does have a different skill set but if I had to choose one I'd go for Martial as I just think his overall quality is better.
Mourinho's biggest flaw is his reluctance to develop 'awkward' players; Van Gaal, for all of his faults, briefly had Martial and Shaw fulfilling their potential as two of the best young talents in Europe at the start of 2015/16. De Bruyne and Lukaku were the same at Chelsea; unpolished diamonds. Jose simply couldn't be arsed cultivating their talents in the same way a Pocchettino would have.
Both have the potential to be assets to United long after Mourinho back-doors it; the club should be mindful of that when it comes to selling them if Jose deems them surplus. Loans would be the safer way to play it.
Mourinho's reluctance to give his left backs license to overlap at will has had a real detrimental effect on Martial. Hopefully there's a compromise this season because it'd be a shame to see such talent stagnate further.
Jose's successor will be fuming if he's left with a functional 30 year old Perisic rather than a 23 year old mercurial Martial.
100% agree
You begin to hear things like he needs to adapt to the manager, listen to the manager more often and so on.
Personally feel the manager doesnt rate him as much as some on the cafe seem to do, and that in itself is not the end of the world for him nor for the football club. If he doesnt turn out to be an important player for the team this season I think he should leave and go to where he will play more regularly.
I hope he makes it and turn the manager to trust him more but am not holding my breath
Martial's passing, both long and short, along with his vision, balance, general awareness are all better. I'd argue Martial's shooting is better too, Martial's shown an ability to shoot from anywhere and at least hit the target.
That's all very dramatic and ridiculously insulting.
The Caf was having the same discussions back in 2011 involving Valencia, Nani, Young and Giggs. Giggs was the most creative of the lot but was incredibly careless, Nani was notoriously inconsistent but was technically spectacular, Valencia was consistent but lacked spark and Young was your traditional British winger who piled in often fruitless crosses. People had very different views on all of them.
Some people are just naturally more conservative than others. There's some theories at the moment suggesting that goes right down to our biology.
I know it's only pre-season, but did he start any game other than the Madrid one? I would be surprised if he's in Jose's plans to start come the beginning of the season.
He should be first choice for me. If we can't go any buy one, we can try the one we got a couple of years ago.
He should be first choice for me. If we can't go any buy one, we can try the one we got a couple of years ago.
Jose needs players he can rely on every week. Martial is hugely talented but he isn't reliable. He has one good game in every five he plays. The club isn't a nursery, you need to come in to the side and stamp your claim to be in it next week, and by no measure has Martial done that.
When he played well last season, Jose always picked him the following game and his performance always dropped. I'm a big fan of Martial, but he needs to be more consistent in what he offers the team. Winning teams can't afford to gamble on a player that may or may not be any good on any given day.
When he played well last season, Jose always picked him the following game and his performance always dropped. I'm a big fan of Martial, but he needs to be more consistent in what he offers the team. Winning teams can't afford to gamble on a player that may or may not be any good on any given day.
Rather the young man, who was dealing with a new manager and a DIVORCE, be given another shot this year. He's performed pretty well this pre-season, and seems to be aggressive every time he touches the ball.
No.
Because you and @Santoryo were curious, here are the playing stats for the tour:
For Herrera, Mata, Lingard and Matic I discounted the games they were injured/not at the club.
Martial's minutes given on the tour are pretty average but he's started just 1 game on tour. Players with equal or fewer starts: Matic (1 - this is his first game), McTominay, Mitchell, Joel Pereira and Tuanzebe.
On the flip side he's one of just 6 players to have completed 90 minutes at least once on the tour.
He livened the second half up when he came on and got another assist, he looks up for the challenge IMO, he just needs to find a consistent output.
100% agree
Doesn't look too bad when presented like that to be honest. Involved in every game and played at least a half in 4 out of 7.No.
Because you and @Santoryo were curious, here are the playing stats for the tour:
Green = started game, yellow = unused sub, red = injured, black = not at club
For Herrera, Mata, Lingard and Matic I discounted the games they were injured/not at the club.
Martial's minutes given on the tour are pretty average but he's started just 1 game on tour. Players with equal or fewer starts: Matic (1 - this is his first game), McTominay, Mitchell, Joel Pereira and Tuanzebe.
On the flip side he's one of just 6 players to have completed 90 minutes at least once on the tour.
zlatan went through a period where he was shite last season and he kept on playing, even pogba had his deeps but Jose persisted with them.
I think the bottom line is that the coach doesnt rate what Martial brings to the table, right from the begining of the season he had already predicted he was going to have an average to normal season which perhaps some may read as a way to taking the pressure off him while others may say he didnt rate what he did in his debut season.
http://www.football365.com/news/mourinho-expects-martial-to-have-normal-season
Then there was the small matter of taking away his shirt number in the way he did.
All through the season he never gave him a consistent run, said and acted in a way that made the young boy lost his confidence, with little support from the manager coupled with the off field troubles, it was no surprise his season panned out the way he did.
This pre season I had wager among all our available attackers he started the least and had the least minutes of them all.
This things happen, some managers rate a player, others simply dont. But frankly there is very little he will do to convince hi otherwise, those Mourinho like he stand by as it was shown by his stern defence of Fellaini when asked about the speculations against the not so committal response he gave concerning speculations about Martial today.
People need to accept the manager does not rate the boy like they seem to do and let it go.
Martial goal and assists on pre-season tour
Martial goal and assists on tour
LA Galaxy 0:4 Manchester United (Assist for Mkhitaryan)
LA Galaxy 0:5 Manchester United (Goal)
Real Madrid 0:1 Manchester United (Assist for Lingard)
Manchester United 2:1 Sampdoria (Assist for Mata)
first three clips c/o GifLord, last clip c/o nGolos
LA Galaxy 0:4 Manchester United (Assist for Mkhitaryan)
LA Galaxy 0:5 Manchester United (Goal)
Real Madrid 0:1 Manchester United (Assist for Lingard)
Manchester United 2:1 Sampdoria (Assist for Mata)
first three clips c/o GifLord, last clip c/o nGolos
? How little? He's played as much as anyone, or do you expect him to complete 90 minutes every game? It's madness how over reactionary your post is!
@Damien You could also include his deflected through ball to McTominay as an assist. 
4 assists and a goal is a fairly healthy return from Martial, given he's only playing 30-45 minutes a game.
4 assists and a goal is a fairly healthy return from Martial, given he's only playing 30-45 minutes a game.
He's had a great pre-season. Competition with Rashford on the left means he might not be first choice yet, but I'm still holding out hope he starts either the Super cup or one of the first two league games.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Martial and Pogba are the only players on our team who can considtently create space through their ability to beat multiple players.
Why Jose doesn't build the team around those two who knows. 4-3-3 with Martial Lukaku and Mkhi, with Pogba Matic and Herrera, and a back 4 of Darmian Jones Bailly and Valencia is a premier league winning team with supporting cast of Mata, Rashford, Lingard, Pereira, Fellaini, Carrick, Shaw, Blind etc.
Why Jose doesn't build the team around those two who knows. 4-3-3 with Martial Lukaku and Mkhi, with Pogba Matic and Herrera, and a back 4 of Darmian Jones Bailly and Valencia is a premier league winning team with supporting cast of Mata, Rashford, Lingard, Pereira, Fellaini, Carrick, Shaw, Blind etc.
I agree with you except for your choice of back 4.
His dribbling ability is pretty similar to Ribery, the ball just sticks to his feets like a glue. If he improves his off the ball movement can have similar career as Ribery. Hopefully he gives carvajal torrid time next week
Martial Interview
He really needs a leftback who can weave one-twos with him or at least take a man off him. Darmian just ends up sitting back while Martial gets crowded out. The other issue is that Martial often puts his head down and ignores his fullback when he gets the ball. He's been guilty of trying to do too much himself in the past. If Mourinho can sort out the Martial - LB problem, it might be the solution to our left flank woes instead of a new signing.
- Status