Because there's miles between those two and Lingard isn't even good (unlike Rashford who is very good).
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 23
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
What's the preoccupation of pundits with us getting a centre forward? Don Hutchinson and Dion Dublin kept on banging on about how Martial is not a able to score 25 goal a season and we should go and get Kane for 200million.
Why should we want to do that? The fluidity in our attack will just be disrupted and that's even not considering how much injury he has had in the last few years. We are not saving him from his Spurs career.
For the first time in a long while, we are not really desperate for all these pundit wannabe "united players".
If we can redistribute the goal around the team we will be fine.
Why should we want to do that? The fluidity in our attack will just be disrupted and that's even not considering how much injury he has had in the last few years. We are not saving him from his Spurs career.
For the first time in a long while, we are not really desperate for all these pundit wannabe "united players".
If we can redistribute the goal around the team we will be fine.
Imo if you use goals number to compare the two players you should take in account the fact that Rashford mainly play in the wing and Martial as #9.
However I do agree that Martial is probably the better/ more completed player since he can play as a #9 and Rashford can't.
But then, by the same logic, Martial cannot play in left wing while Rashford can. Though to be totally correct, both can play in both position, just that Martial is much better at 9 while Rashford is much better at 11.
Honestly, there is not much between them. Both are very good players with world class potential who are probably on the border or realizing it. Martial is a bit more experienced which shows at times, Rashford is more of a leader which also shows at times.
Greenwood is better than both
I think most pundits see United as big club who deserve to be winning the premier league often. They grew up at a time when Fergie was dominating and have high expectations of United.This is in contrast to many United fans who see United as lucky to be in top 4 nowadays and have developed this fan boy attitude towards certain players whether it's Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Pogba e.t.c. Whilst I don't agree with spending stupid money on Harry Kane, the pundits are correct to expect us to have a better attack. Currently I would say Greenwood has that profile of a United forward he is consistent and accurate but he is a young kid that must not have that pressure on him right now. Rashford and Martial are good but they are not Aguerro and Harry Kane which is what you expect from a Manchester United forward.
Nah, I must disagree with this. Martial has showed more than enough that he's a really good LW. It's just this season that we've discovered his new #9 thanks to Ole.But then, by the same logic, Martial cannot play in left wing while Rashford can. Though to be totally correct, both can play in both position, just that Martial is much better at 9 while Rashford is much better at 11.
Honestly, there is not much between them. Both are very good players with world class potential who are probably on the border or realizing it. Martial is a bit more experienced which shows at times, Rashford is more of a leader which also shows at times.
Greenwood is better than both
It's more like both would play really well on the left wing but only Martial would play as a #9 in our current system.
Still see so many “pundits” claiming we need a new number 9 like Kane. Honestly seeing as Kane is 2/3 years older and has a dodgy injury record I’d say Martial has shown more than enough that when he is starting down the middle, he produces.
15 PL goals, no penalties and missing a number of games due to injury? Vardy and Aubameyang are on 21 and 19 respectively and they play almost every game and minute. Martials numbers are more than good enough.
15 PL goals, no penalties and missing a number of games due to injury? Vardy and Aubameyang are on 21 and 19 respectively and they play almost every game and minute. Martials numbers are more than good enough.
I've grown past the point of caring about pundits bullshit regarding Martial and this need for us to get a striker in the market, especially Kane for 200m 
Most of those fools aren't worth listening
Most of those fools aren't worth listening
What's lovely about Martial now he's being played in his proper position (I never saw enough promise in him as a LW, in contrast with others here, looked disinterested, didn't work hard, didn't take people on) is that he has huge scope for improvement and has been improving. I have loved the poacher's goals he's scored and hope there will be many more of them now he's training for one specific position week in week out. I don't think next year Ole will be looking to put Martial LW if Rashford has an injury, bring in Ighalo, etc. I feel he wants to turn Martial into a specialist in his position.
This is just rhetoric and cliché if you ask me. In real terms, for the two individuals that we are discussing - what do you think that actually means? It’s just something people say without thinking I think. Does it mean that Martial has more opportunity to score than Rashford? Does it mean he gets into more goalscoring positions? Does it mean he has more shots? From actually watching the team play, is this your actual observation?
I remember earlier in his United career that was what his game was all about, coming from the left beating a full back and/or a centre half (the Ohhh Yeeeees! goal v Liverpool springs to mind). But I agree playing him centrally seems to be working to the strengths of the player he has become, and in any case if we are looking to have a more fluid front line I'm sure Martial will have the chance to move a bit wider and pick the ball up a bit deeper, we're not asking him to say central and in the box as he's not that kind of striker.
Oh now you take a lot more than just goals number to judge a player. How convenient
I don't see any of your questions mentioned in your last post. You used goal numbers only. You don't even care about how many match/minutes they've played. Nor their positions, their play style etc. By your logic I would say Giroud was a much better player than Ozil. In 2015/2016 Giroud scored 16 goals and Ozil only 6 in the PL.
These are the same fools saying we need to get rid of Pogba as he's a disturbance in the dressing room. They literally know nothing more than what's in the papers - idiots.I've grown past the point of caring about pundits bullshit regarding Martial and this need for us to get a striker in the market, especially Kane for 200m
Most of those fools aren't worth listening
Oh yes drifting left no problem at all, especially as is creates exciting interplay options with Rashford. I think Ole is definitely giving him some simple instructions about positioning at the moment which are working well though, almost as if he's said to stay in the width of the 18 yard box at all times on the pitch.
I’m not using more than goals. I am using their goals. They are two forwards, and are both able to be judged on their goals. It would be false to imply that Rashford is less expected to score goals than Martial. It may not be wrong to imply that ‘wingers are less expected to score than strikers’ as a generalisation, but there is no need for you to try and use it with these two players, unless of course you have never seen us play.Oh now you take a lot more than just goals number to judge a player. How convenient
I don't see any of your questions mentioned in your last post. You used goal numbers only. You don't even care about how many match/minutes they've played. Nor their positions, their play style etc. By your logic I would say Giroud was a much better player than Ozil. In 2015/2016 Giroud scored 16 goals and Ozil only 6 in the PL.
Yeah that looks likely. I suppose there's a pretty fine line between a fluid front three and everyone in each other's way making a bloody mess, so if we can work first and foremost on getting Martial effective in the centre, which seems to be paying dividends, he can then be given further licence to move either side if necessary.
He already moves on the sides. Heck his most recent goal came from him being on the left and cutting inside.
None of our front 3 players strictly play in their starting positions. They interchange a lot. Martial recent goal came from him being on the left, Greenwood just assisted Bruno from the left, Rashford assisted Martial against Sheffield from the right, Greenwood and Rashford have found themselves centrally loads of time etc.
It's actually a massive myth that you need your centre forward to score 25+ league goals, especially in the modern era. Any one of your front 3 can be your top scorer, or you can share the goals around. Look at Liverpool!
Martial has shown enough this season that he deserves a year to be our first choice number 9, and this season he'll have some actual creativity behind him rather than having to feed off scraps.
Very true but I agree with @fps that post-lockdown Martial is really looking the part as the central-most prong of that attack, and his hattrick against Sheffield United epitomises what you get from him as a central player; receiving two balls from wide which he puts away clinically and then dropping slightly deeper to profit from a nice give and go with Rashford, all done within the width of the 18 yard box. Don't get me wrong as you point out the goal he scores against Bournemouth comes from him drifting out to the left, but I think even in that game what strikes me is how fine a central striker Martial looks these days; for Greenwood's first goal (from the left as you say) Martial is the man in the centre, he puts the ball back across goal for the penalty after drifting to the far post for Shaw's cross and he's central and alive in the box when Greenwood scores his fourth from the right.
He will surely be a player that likes to move laterally but my point is I love how his game has come on within the width of the 18 yard box, where before he was as times not involved for long stretches in games and looked constantly to be drifting wide just to get a kick of the ball. I've no doubt he's been aided by Greenwood's emergence as a fine inside forward, not to mention Bruno behind him, but I think he should also take credit for the improvements he's made as a more central striker.
Its because of Greenwood - Rashford and Greenwood have the ability to cut in and both have played much closer to Martial to the point where they both look like wider placed forwards than wingers. Our front 3 play exceptionally narrow to the point that all 3 can interchange positions.
The problem for Martial before (and wan Bissaka) was that Daniel James on the RW was playing like a traditional winger too close to the touchline- causing a massive distance between James and Martial which James would try to resolve by making a cross usually to a forward who was deeper in his game play rather than the box - the only time James would have the ability to cut in would be on a counterattack.
Playing 2 forwards on either side of Martial - allows Martial to be a more supportive player by holding on to the ball, making one two passes, holding his position to occupy central defenders whilst deadly wide forwards can also score goals.
Whils our form and ability to play as a team has improved almost instantly due to Bruno's and Pogba's ability to find quick passes - its Greenwood starting in that front 3 that kind of completes the front 3 or attack.
Martial isnt ever going to be at his best trying to get on the end of Daniel James, Diego Dalot's or Antonio Valencia's crosses from RW because he just isnt that type of striker 24/7, not everyone is - playing a forward there allows him to be what he is supposed to be, a support striker with the ability to be clinical.
Which team that has dominated European Football in a last decade has actually played with your so called classic 9? I don't see anyone playing with one except for Bayern. Our own team that won three title and went to two champions league final was built on interchangeable forwards and that has been the case for most teams in recent times. Where does this obsession of having lanky tall box poacher comes from? Even taking away the part of 25 goals which Martial will most likely reach by the end of the season.
My housemate always plays that kind of 90's style football on FIFA because it's what he grew up with and what he likes to watch. I think they're just stuck in the past.
I know. Its almost as if they are being willfully ignorant to the fact he is approaching the magic number 25 (which i dont get anyway). I wonder what they will say if he gets 25?
"he doesn't look interested enough, sulky etc" all these irrelevant things just to force the idea of getting another world level striker. They are married to the United number 9 tradition so I fear whatever Tony does, it will not matter because they''ll put a "but XYZ" or an asterix next to it.
I heard one slightly worrying comment from a pundit today. They suggested that Martial might be one of those players who thrive without the pressure of playing in front of thousands. He certainly looks like he’s playing with a weight off his shoulders. And it’s definitely a thing that some players look great in training but not so good under the spotlight. Thoughts?
It certainly makes sense in theory. But he's one of the fans' favourites.
Another thing, his form had improved dramatically before the lock down as well.
Along with Bruno and Matic, he was already one of the better performers.
He scored the bulk of his goals before the lockdown.
Martial also has one of the better if not the best scoring record against top teams out of our current bunch, so the idea that he’s fazed by a large live audience is unfounded.
I wouldn't be worrying about the words of any pundit. Martial's form has been like this since shortly after the new year and the only dip in form he has suffered coincided with Rashford getting injured, literally 2 weeks of poor form.
Edit: Which pundit was this?
I understand your point but any forward will struggle to score goals when the supply chain is not there. Kane is struggling to keep up with his numbers now because the midfield and supply chain is not there anymore. Our forwards have done exceptionally well considering the dross they had to work with and I feel they have earned the right to enjoy playing with some creativity behind them. Martial and Rashford struggled to score because they played in a dysfunctional team where as Aguero and Kane where lucky to play in teams that provided them lots of chances.
We have not created enough chances like a title winning team in the past, hence why we struggled to score.
And FYI, I am not a fanboy of any player and I feel is disrespectful for someone to assume fans who like certain players are mediocre. Actually, a good number of us feel is only fair to analyse things the way they are.
When you take away penalty goals, Martial will perhaps be very up there in the PL goals scored this season.
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He thrives under pressure and in big matches. I will always love Martial for his debut goals against Liverpool at Old Trafford. He made Skrtel (Liverpool's best defender at that time) look utterly silly.
Interesting thought. When I played I used to have terrible nerves before every game, and this was a corporate league in Toronto! Then, for one season, I smoked a doobie before each match and the nerves disappeared, never to be seen again.
Hopefully, if this is the case for Martial, playing these matches without that pressure will allow him to get free of it.
I think he's playing as well as he was when there were fans in the stadiums. As @Raven says above, the only time he's been poor is when Rashford was injured. Aside from that small period in which it was understandable as to why he was struggling (like Rashford did when he was out for those two months), he's been consistently good with or without fans.
He's scored home and away against City, home and away against Chelsea, was our only player who looked good in the games away to Arsenal and away to Liverpool where everyone else was poor, etc. I don't think the pressure fazes him at all.
Just lazy punditry, imo.
The lot of them are ignorant. Martial has scored 4 goals in 8 matches against the traditional top 6 this season I believe. That's a good return when you consider we have been depleted for most of the season. He can handle pressure alright.
Pundits have an agenda against Martial. How can they say he performs better?
Martial is ice cold, the goal v Liverpool, Watford, City.. I do not buy it.
I think the idea with those two (Rashford and Martial) is they could get to that level though. I personally don't think Kane is that attractive an option for us anyway, we need pace and also have to many crocks, great striker but don't think he'd suit us and would cost the earth. Martial is having a great season, is young and realistically who could we buy that would upgrade on him? They'd all be £70m plus, probably way more, and all a bit of a gamble when there are more pressing needs. It's also worth noting if we had him on penos for the whole season he'd likely be top of the golden boot table and near enough to 25 goals (maybe even over given we've had like 11 or 12 penalties).
This. He has been a big game player. A complete opposite to what's been suggested by pundits who think that he is doi g well behind closed doors.
He has found it hard to implement himself against the weaker teams because our team hasnt had as much creativity and dynamism in its whole team as It does now.
Its Greenwood who has been allowed to start games now non stop since there is no pressure of a fan base - and a clinical forward like him able to cut in on his left foot whilst playing close to Martial is what has gotten the best of him.
This would make much more sense had he not been in the same great scoring form right before the lockdown and if he hadn't had spells of terrific play, especially against the best sides/highest profile matches in the league, throughout his first few years for us. He scored in a pressured packed game against our biggest rivals on his debut ffs
.He's a professional footballer, I highly doubt he has any issue with playing in front of the crowd since he's been doing it his entire senior career and all the armchair psychoanalyzing around him just because he's more introverted and doesn't have a dumb grin on his face 24/7 has become quite tedious to be very honest.
Tbh I started to find this discussion pointless. They are a winger and a forward. Martial doesn't track back on the left wing. You counted the number of pen Rashford put in but do you count how many tap in Martial/Rashford has scored ? In what world Rashford would have the same chances to score goals with Martial when he's playing around the box mostly and Martial mostly sitting in the box? You didn't watch any of our game?
You can't compare two players scoring ability by just their goals number, let alone their whole ability as a player. I don't like those so called statistics but if you used xG for example to compare their scoring ability I'd say nothing. It's true that Martial is a better finisher and probably a better/more completed than Rashford but your argument is just wrong.
It’s been said in this thread already but praise for Martial is always tempered both by our fans and pundits. It’s weird that some find it so hard to give him credit.This would make much more sense had he not been in the same great scoring form right before the lockdown and if he hadn't had spells of terrific play, especially against the best sides/highest profile matches in the league, throughout his first few years for us. He scored in a pressured packed game against our biggest rivals on his debut ffs
He's a professional footballer, I highly doubt he has any issue with playing in front of the crowd since he's been doing it his entire senior career and all the armchair psychoanalyzing around him just because he's more introverted and doesn't have a dumb grin on his face 24/7 has become quite tedious to be very honest.
Martial doesn't mostly sit in the box, heck most of the complaints from some people were that he didn't spend enough time in the box. Martial drops and be part of the build up and for most attacks, especially counter attacks Rashford finds himself inside the box more than Martial due to the nature of how we've played this season(Martial would drop deep to help hold the ball or build up play, dragging his CBs while Rashford runs in the space behind and on the receiving end of most of our counter attacking final balls).
I'm not going to get into this debate about either of them but I want to clarify their roles and how often they find themselves in goalscoring situations. Rashford is an Inside Forward, not a winger therefore finds himself inside the box almost as much as the central striker. For most of the season Rashford attacked that space left behind by CBs(dragged by Martial due to him dropping deep) and surge into the box as often as possible.
I hope you haven't forgotten all the complaints about Martial not being into the box and all those classic striker talks that have been happening on these boards. Martial has almost played as a false nine and Greenwood and Rashford find themselves in the box almost as much as him.
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