superdry
touched by a genius
- Joined
- May 19, 2013
- Messages
- 1,656
Watching him bounce players off yesterday was such a buzz!
How stupid was Janmaat who actually tried the kick and run routine against Valencia - sure he had a head start, but that's just stupid. The Norwegian commentator said towards the end that Valencia had him safe and sound in his back pocket. And that was the second lb he had put in that pocket - nice to have some company, I suppose.Watching him bounce players off yesterday was such a buzz!
Think it rather more shows how misleading stats can be tbh.
This just sums him up and shows how wrong people who say he cant cross are.
if this was an individual stat then I would agree but comparing many wingers/full backs keeping all of them in equal footing, surely the parameters for everyone would have been the same.Think it rather more shows how misleading stats can be tbh.
Vevside that fits better with your narrative? It's like listening to people say that I don't believe in those numbers or stats because in MY experience. And, to your eyes...Think it rather more shows how misleading stats can be tbh.
But what does accurate mean in this context?if this was an individual stat then I would agree but comparing many wingers/full backs keeping all of them in equal footing, surely the parameters for everyone would have been the same.
to me its quite telling that other fullbacks either dont cross as much or arent accurate with their crosses.
I think stats have their place, but too often in football they're devoid of context to the point of becoming almost meaningless. This is a prime example.Vevside that fits better with your narrative? It's like listening to people say that I don't believe in those numbers or stats because in MY experience. And, to your eyes...
To sum up, you believe that his crossing is shit whereas I, and quite a few others here, think his crossing is fine and that he varies it quite a lot. Stats back up our argument, not yours. Of course you think that they are devoid of context. If they backed up your argument, I think you would feel otherwise. The fact of the matter is - he crosses more than any other player in the league, and he's a fullback, and he also completes more crosses than any other player in the league with the highest hit percentage. Seeing as all those players are probably measured using the same methods, I'm not sure how your argument is valid.I think stats have their place, but too often in football they're devoid of context to the point of becoming almost meaningless. This is a prime example.
To sum up, you believe that his crossing is shit whereas I, and quite a few others here, think his crossing is fine and that he varies it quite a lot. Stats back up our argument, not yours. Of course you think that they are devoid of context. If they backed up your argument, I think you would feel otherwise. The fact of the matter is - he crosses more than any other player in the league, and he's a fullback, and he also completes more crosses than any other player in the league with the highest hit percentage. Seeing as all those players are probably measured using the same methods, I'm not sure how your argument is valid.
You think stats can be devoid of context. It was a stat that showed the number of crosses and how accurate they were. How was that stat devoid of context? He crosses more than anyone else in the league and more accurately. I don't quite understand your problem with that. You thinking the stats are somewhat wrong is just pure speculation. The fact is that you have an opinion that is NOT backed by stats, whereas I and others have an opinion that IS backed by stats. The fact is also that he could easily have had an assist against Watford if Ibra knew how to finish in that match, and if you watch the video below, you will see that he could have had many more if not for poor finishing.I don't think it's a particularly difficult sentence I've written above which explains my problems with the particular stat, but by all means have a try at reading it again because your reply is scarcely relevant to what I have said.
Yeah that was great. Just one of those moments where you think "That won't work" and low and behold, Valencia wins the ball.How stupid was Janmaat who actually tried the kick and run routine against Valencia - sure he had a head start, but that's just stupid.
Would like to see how many crosses led to goals for each of those players too. Somehow Valencia's crosses don't end up in goals as often as they should. But that is partly a function of how defensive opposition teams usually are with us, leading to a packed box.
This just sums him up and shows how wrong people who say he cant cross are.
His poor crossing came from when he was figured out as a one trick pony, since he almost never cut back inside, he did one move 99% of the time so most of his crosses were being blocked by the opposing fullback, i guess that lead him to always be trying those low and hard crosses to try and get it in before the defender had a chance to block them, but they usually got blocked anyway.People have always complained about Valencia's crossing. It was initially because we had loads of Nani fans who were irate at Valencia getting the nod on the right wing. Valencia's never been one for really whipping a cross into dangerous areas, so aesthetically his crossing can look poor compared to players who put a lot of bend on the ball. His reputation also took a hit in the post-Fergie era when the whole team fell to bits and Valencia's mental anguish was most evident in him slamming the ball into the shins of the nearest defender.
When he's playing well, he actually delivers a hell of a good ball from wide areas, hence the good stats re completion above. He doesn't curl the ball, though. He picks someone to aim for and basically passes them the ball. Should have had two assists yesterday from doing exactly that.
Once again you've simply missed the point.
I agree that completion rates is not necessarily a good measure of quality, but any other measure would be purely speculative. Therefore we need to use both our eyes and stats. The fact that he crosses the ball more than anyone else speaks volumes. I think both De Bruyne and Özil, for instance, are better crossers, but they still don't put in as many crosses thus creating potential chances as Valencia does. This season, Valencia has produced a number of chances that could and possibly should have resulted in goals.Once again you've simply missed the point.
I do not think completion rates are a good measure of quality of cross: an uncompleted cross can (and often is) more dangerous than a completed cross. It tells you nothing. Darren Fletcher made a similar point about obsessions with pass completion rates in the modern game in an interview he did the other day, and if its true for pass completions (which it is to an extent) then its even more true for crosses.
I have very little problem with Valencia's crossing this season and think he's markedly improved that aspect of a game, along with virtually everything else, but any suggestion that he's the best in the league – which that table would indicate – has to be treated with a massive pinch of salt.
Leroy Sane, who is very fast, did the same earlier this season - he never tried it againYeah that was great. Just one of those moments where you think "That won't work" and low and behold, Valencia wins the ball.
Nobody gets past Valencia with that routine, he's not Darmian.
it's a stereotype Valencia's crossing however despite his crossing is pretty accurate, he often doesn't have enough power on the cross, I like rashfords crosses better, Nani had great early crosses too, the ones from Tony V are just floating forever, even though I understand we have Zlatan there who can reach them with his strength and height, he should do more of the cutbacks like for that Zlatan goal against Leicester, sth he used to be very good at when he first joined us and was hailed by SAF as a best winger in the world, right now he's only best rightback in the world and despite not watching regularly any big competition hard to argue with that statement from José, he's outstanding, nothing can beat him, can keep the ball under pressure and he's always there to attack, sometimes alone that right wing. Some ppl might still argue about his crossing or overall attacking contribution but we should think about him as a RB and for a RB he's done fantastically well going forward..
This just sums him up and shows how wrong people who say he cant cross are.
Probably a better measure would be to see how many crosses resulted in shots. Case in point: Valencia swung in two absolutely brilliant crosses against Watford, one of which Ibrahimovic shanked, and the other resulted in a shot from Pogba that forced a good save from Gomez.Would like to see how many crosses led to goals for each of those players too. Somehow Valencia's crosses don't end up in goals as often as they should. But that is partly a function of how defensive opposition teams usually are with us, leading to a packed box.
Bit hard to protect him when Valencia isspending most of the time in front of him. Hes playing far too high and getting caught time and time again. He needs to learn he can't do that when we aren't keeping possession well.Mata is not very useful in terms of protection of a RB.
Worse half of the season from Valencia? He's constantly in an in between position,Is he told to not bother defending at all tonight? Absolutely terrible, I was criticising Bailly earlier but Valencia is the main reason why Bailly is playing so poorly, leaving him exposed all the time.
Valencia has left Bailly exposed a couple of times and has had a poor game but that's not to blame for Bailly's numerous brain farts. Both been poor tonight and don't seem to have an understanding.Is he told to not bother defending at all tonight? Absolutely terrible, I was criticising Bailly earlier but Valencia is the main reason why Bailly is playing so poorly, leaving him exposed all the time.
How can he protect Valencia when Valencia has no idea how to defend, at least tonight. All over the place, reminded me of Valencia under van Gaal who was terrible defensively.Mata is not very useful in terms of protection of a RB.
Yeah, Bailly's been poor with ir without Valencia, I agree with that. Not defending him, but it must be ridiculously hard to play next to Valencia tonight.Valencia has left Bailly exposed a couple of times and has had a poor game but that's not to blame for Bailly's numerous brain farts. Both been poor tonight and don't seem to have an understanding.
Yeah. Bailly is decent IMO I won't blame Bailly tonightYeah, Bailly's been poor with ir without Valencia, I agree with that. Not defending him, but it must be ridiculously hard to play next to Valencia tonight.
He should have had an assist for Lingars,easily. He also had a deflected shot and at least one decent cross. His crossing was a little off tonight.He is just too frustrating for me, no matter how good he is at lot of things, he is terrible at some key things. For a player who is allowed to attack so much and who actually gets so many good balls he is creating very little. Should have created at least two or three chances more tonight by simply not messing the pass or cross and he couldn't do it. That's something that happens in every game.
I simply can't rate a fullback so highly who is so poor whenever he actually has to do something effective with the ball.
He is just too frustrating for me, no matter how good he is at lot of things, he is terrible at some key things. For a player who is allowed to attack so much and who actually gets so many good balls he is creating very little. Should have created at least two or three chances more tonight by simply not messing the pass or cross and he couldn't do it. That's something that happens in every game.
I simply can't rate a fullback so highly who is so poor whenever he actually has to do something effective with the ball.
This just sums him up and shows how wrong people who say he cant cross are.