[Adnan]

He obviously hasn't been good enough this season. Statistically (and in line with the eye test, I think) the only thing you can really say he's been very good at is carrying the ball forward and not giving it away under possession, making him a useful outball when we're under pressure. That and working hard defensively. But that obviously isn't near enough.

However, even aside from the general hope that a player will improve in their second season at the club, I think it's fair to argue that improvements elsewhere in the team are particularly likely to benefit him. Partly because he's obviously better suited to a possession-heavier style of football we'll hopefully shift towards as we bring in players better able to execute it. And partly because a player as obviously one-footed as him is almost by definition more likely to be a system player who depends on others to offset his weaknesses and complement his strengths.

And the good news for Antony is that this summer we're reportedly quite likely to strengthen the two positions that would most benefit him, CF and RB. So I'd be more inclined to make longer-term judgements of him next season. Because if we improve in those two areas then we should quickly see an improvement if we're going to see an improvement at all.

Good post as usual.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think it'd be hard to argue he'd be ahead of any one of Rashford, Casemiro, Shaw, Varane, Bruno, Martinez and Eriksen. That leaves DDG, who's saved us several times this season, Dalot/AWB and Martial. I'd have him above the latter due to Martial's lack of availability. Probably also ahead of our right backs.

I actually misread your post. I thought you were talking about upgrades in our squad as a whole. I agree with your rankings (except DDG who would be in my top 3 most in need of an upgrade). But the fact he’s so high up that list still means we definitely shouldn’t be looking to move him on

 

[Jev]

I actually misread your post. I thought you were talking about upgrades in our squad as a whole. I agree with your rankings (except DDG who would be in my top 3 most in need of an upgrade). But the fact he’s so high up that list still means we definitely shouldn’t be looking to move him on

I don't think we should move him on either (yet, at least). Just seems like flawed logic to me when people suggest we need to buy better players in order to unlock him, given that that might entail replacing players who are better than him from the starting eleven.

 

[DevTheRed]

Its shocking isn't it? Even on his good foot he has been so poor at it.

Really is. He should be cutting onto his left and swinging it in.. something Gakpo does very well.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think we should move him on either (yet, at least). Just seems like flawed logic to me when people suggest we need to buy better players in order to unlock him, given that that might entail replacing players who are better than him from the starting eleven.

To be fair, @sullydnl just referenced two positions in the squad which would improve him a lot if we upgraded. Right back and striker. Both of which need to be upgraded regardless.

 

[sullydnl]

I don't think we should move him on either (yet, at least). Just seems like flawed logic to me when people suggest we need to buy better players in order to unlock him, given that that might entail replacing players who are better than him from the starting eleven.

Not to "unlock" him. To improve him.

It's only flawed logic if you think the only determining factor in whether someone should be the team is their innate quality.

But style of play and whether players fit the style of play matters. Because the aim to to get the whole functioning at a level greater than sum of the parts, not to install the best individual parts.

And while Antony quite clearly hasn't been particularly good this season, he is also quite clearly stylistically more suited to ETH's preferred possession/control/pressing heavy style of football than nearly every other player in the side. And it follows that he's therefore more likely than others to improve as we shift as a team in that direction, particularly in the positions that most directly impact him.

Even more so when those positions are (by your own admission above) two of the positions we're weaker in anyway. It's not like we'd be making those upgrades with Antony in mind, he just happens to be the player most likely to benefit.

 

[lsd]

Not to "unlock" him. To improve him.

It's only flawed logic if you think the only determining factor in whether someone should be the team is their innate quality.

But style of play and whether players fit the style of play matters. Because the aim to to get the whole functioning at a level greater than sum of the parts, not to install the best individual parts.

And while Antony quite clearly hasn't been particularly good this season, he is also quite clearly stylistically more suited to ETH's preferred possession/control/pressing heavy style of football than nearly every other player in the side. And it follows that he's therefore more likely than others to improve as we shift as a team in that direction, particularly in the positions that most directly impact him.

Even more so when those positions are (by your own admission above) two of the positions we're weaker in anyway.

Would Timber be a good fit for him? Perhaps that's why we were interested in him

 

[sullydnl]

Would Timber be a good fit for him? Perhaps that's why we were interested in him

We were also linked with players like Dumfries (mostly last summer) and Frimpong (as recently as earlier today), both of whom would very attack minded buys. If I was to guess I'd say whoever we sign for RB is more likely to be of that ilk than Timber, but who knows.

 

[KikiDaKats]

It's his first PL season ffs.



1st full PL seasons year / games / goals / assists.

Salah - 13/14 - 10/2/1
Mahrez - 14/15 - 30/4/3
Saka - 19/20 - 26/1/5
Martinelli - 19/20 - 14/3/0
Almiron - 19/20 - 36/4/2
Son - 15/16 - 28/4/1


Antony - 22/23 - 14/3/0


Seriously, it's his first season he's playing ahead of two rubbish full backs and has no striker in the middle to actually create for.

You are not wrong but some of those guy should not be in that conversation.
Saka first season of senior football
Almiron was not a starter

The Mahrez, Salah and Son comparison is bob on. He is done brilliant in my opinion, He is currently operating at the expected level of a wide. It’s about the next step in the coming years and he looks determined enough.

 

[Cassidy]

When I talk about creating a chance I’m not talking about playing a pass to a player who then actually has to create the chance. Because that would be fecking insane

You clearly know little about actual chance creation

 

[acnumber9]

You clearly know little about actual chance creation

Of course I do. Everybody else is wrong but you.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

I’m not exactly a jack grealish fan either mate they also got screwed over
But difference is grealish will try to make things happen, this passenger doesn’t

If you speak to any City fan right now they wouldn't say they got screwed over for Grealish. He's in outstanding form and is now one of the first names on the teamsheet. Similarly to Antony, his first season was a transitional season where he appeared to be effective for large parts. It takes players time to bed in. All I'm saying is maybe we should wait until next season before we start having the conversation about whether or not Antony is a flop. Once we sign better players around him (a CF who could offer more than Weghorst would be nice), then chances are his performance levels will improve.

 

[croadyman]

Said it at the start of the season, all the trickery (If you can even call it that) is utterly pointless. Great for Youtube compilations when you're doing it against Eredivisie wank but even bog-standard PL fullbacks will laugh you off the wing with it.

Either he changes the way he plays or he's out of here in 18 months.

Yeah I don't see him making it if he doesn't change the way he plays,even Erik will reach breaking point with him then

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I personally can give Antony time - primarily because he is better than Sancho IMO in his first season.

Feel like I’m more irritated by Sancho and am done with him.

Oh no, I mean the combo with Martial (who will inevitably be injured against soon).

I'm absolutely more frustrated by Sancho. But then I'm also not because the more I watch him, the more convinced I am that between Solskjaer and Woodward there was absolutely no idea what we were signing other than impressive BuLi G/A stats.

 

[flappyjay]

Said it at the start of the season, all the trickery (If you can even call it that) is utterly pointless. Great for Youtube compilations when you're doing it against Eredivisie wank but even bog-standard PL fullbacks will laugh you off the wing with it.

Either he changes the way he plays or he's out of here in 18 months.

His YouTube video was underwhelming, that's usually a bad sign.

 

[Cassidy]

Everybody else is wrong but you.

Relates to you

 

[Kostov]

Antony is not a bad player, he can be useful as long as he understands that he is not fecking Neymar and actually closer to Willian, to which I would be surprised if he reaches his levels in the PL.

 

[Real Name]

Not to "unlock" him. To improve him.

It's only flawed logic if you think the only determining factor in whether someone should be the team is their innate quality.

But style of play and whether players fit the style of play matters. Because the aim to to get the whole functioning at a level greater than sum of the parts, not to install the best individual parts.

And while Antony quite clearly hasn't been particularly good this season, he is also quite clearly stylistically more suited to ETH's preferred possession/control/pressing heavy style of football than nearly every other player in the side. And it follows that he's therefore more likely than others to improve as we shift as a team in that direction, particularly in the positions that most directly impact him.

Even more so when those positions are (by your own admission above) two of the positions we're weaker in anyway. It's not like we'd be making those upgrades with Antony in mind, he just happens to be the player most likely to benefit.

You brought a lot of sense in this thread and thank you for that.

 

[Bebestation]

His YouTube video was underwhelming, that's usually a bad sign.

The most underwhelming YouTube video of all time for me was Sancho Bundesliga for Dortmund.

Would beat a high defensive line by doing shit all and then play a cut back for the striker to tap in.

Rinse & Repeat and then he had amazing stats in the Bundesliga.

 

[Real Name]

I'm not asking you to ignore anything but rather I've asked you to attempt to understand why we struggle to build play from the back, which is a huge hindrance towards being a proactive attacking team. And being weak in the build up phase will hinder the development of a cohesive attacking game plan which will show up on stats site that you mention. But it's important to understand what you're applying the statistics towards before coming to a conclusion on any player occupying the middle and final thirds due to the dysfunction caused at the back.

Arsenal are close to being a title winner due to their first phase players providing a high level platform for their players to thrive. The likes of Ramsdale, Partey, Saliba, Zinchenko etc not only provide the requisite technical quality to progress play through the thirds, they also help with keeping a compact block high up the pitch where they control the space in-behind with Ramsdale assisting with his sweeping actions which allows the likes of Saka and Odegaard and the rest to overload the opponent's defensive third and it also makes the press more effective due the players at the back being near or over the half way line with the keeper holding a high position to sweep. Without creating a strong build up phase, Arsenal wouldn't be challenging for the league.

Antony I can see playing a role in such a setup because there would be link up and combination play potential aplenty which suits him. But some of our other players in the first phase wouldn't even get into their team and neither would Arteta want to hinder his play style by having the likes of De Gea.

On a side note, whats the first step of going towards what Arsenal play, getting rid of De Gea? Cause Martinez and Varane have a good pass on them as well as Casemiro.

 

[Roux]

Playing a pass to a player who then has to create for somebody else isn’t creating chances. He has created zero big chances in the Premier League this season per their own stats. For reference, Wan Bissaka has one. There’s only one person lying to themselves here. He’s literally in the first percentile for assists in the Premier League and 11th percentile for expected assists. That’s fecking garbage.

Of course it is - its all part of the same phase of play. We are not talking about the season - we are talking about the game on Sunday here - he was the only player who was creating anything.

The Dalot chance was from Antony not another player.

 

[Bebestation]

On a side note, whats the first step of going towards what Arsenal play, getting rid of De Gea? Cause Martinez and Varane have a good pass on them as well as Casemiro.

Yeah I’d say start from the back and the very top.

Replace De Gea and we can play a higher line because we will have a GK that comes off his line to be a sweeper or even just collect crosses.

Then we need a goal scorer because as Weghorst has shown - creating for someone who can’t score goals is just a waste of time and space.

We get those two then our defensive line improves and our attacking line improves. Both opposite sides of the pitch improves by 2 signings.

Ten Hag concentrated more on midfield first season with Casemiro and Eriksen as well.

Our next step would be to improve our squad man for man - find a better RB, find a better RCB than Maguire, Lindelof (this might be done by one signing of a RCB/RB like white from Arsenal for example or two separate), find back ups for Casemiro & Eriksen (maybe signed from other clubs or upgrade from our youth system), ten Hag has to decide if Bruno’s risky creative play is what he wants in his team as well. He seems like the United version of Arteta’s decision on Ozil at Arsenal.

Then he has to decide if the player who shall not be named returns or not to play our RW and back up ST.

Then I think our squad is fixed for a consistent title challenge. It seems like it will take another year/ 2 transfer seasons to make this happen - so the next season title challenge may be unrealistic unless we get bought by billionaires who spends it instantly but better quality than Chelsea’s expenditure.

Start on the two opposite ends of the pitch - GK & Striker, then improve the squad man for man.

 

[Real Name]

Yeah I’d say start from the back and the very top.

Replace De Gea and we can play a higher line because we will have a GK that comes off his line to be a sweeper or even just collect crosses.

Then we need a goal scorer because as Weghorst has shown - creating for someone who can’t score goals is just a waste of time and space.

We get those two then our defensive line improves and our attacking line improves. Both opposite sides of the pitch improves by 2 signings.

Ten Hag concentrated more on midfield first season with Casemiro and Eriksen as well.

Our next step would be to improve our squad man for man - find a better RB, find a better RCB than Maguire, Lindelof (this might be done by one signing of a RCB/RB like white from Arsenal for example or two), find back ups for Casemiro & Eriksen (maybe signed from other clubs or upgrade from our youth system), ten Hag has to decide if Bruno’s risky creative play is what he wants in his team as well. He seems like the United version of Arteta’s decision on Ozil at Arsenal.

Then he has to decide if the player who shall not be named returns or not to play our RW and back up ST.

Then I think our squad is fixed for a consistent title challenge. It seems like it will take another year/ 2 transfer seasons to make this happen - so the next season title challenge may be unrealistic unless we get bought by billionaires who spends it instantly but better quality than Chelsea’s.

Start on the two opposite ends of the pitch - GK & Striker, then improve the squad man for man.

Yeah, but the thing is we probably wont get all the players we need this summer and I wonder in which order ETH will go. Rumblings going around are stiker, midfield and RB positions are a priority.

 

[Davie Moyes]

Really is. He should be cutting onto his left and swinging it in.. something Gakpo does very well.

Cutting in and swinging it in to who though? Who is there or making these runs? Antony even released Dalot once in this game who played a good ball in but neither Weghorst or Rashford got any where close to it.

He does need to improve his crossing but his lack of attempted crosses is partly due to lack of a proper striker.

 

[Davie Moyes]

Yeah I’d say start from the back and the very top.

Replace De Gea and we can play a higher line because we will have a GK that comes off his line to be a sweeper or even just collect crosses.

Then we need a goal scorer because as Weghorst has shown - creating for someone who can’t score goals is just a waste of time and space.

We get those two then our defensive line improves and our attacking line improves. Both opposite sides of the pitch improves by 2 signings.

Ten Hag concentrated more on midfield first season with Casemiro and Eriksen as well.

Our next step would be to improve our squad man for man - find a better RB, find a better RCB than Maguire, Lindelof (this might be done by one signing of a RCB/RB like white from Arsenal for example or two separate), find back ups for Casemiro & Eriksen (maybe signed from other clubs or upgrade from our youth system), ten Hag has to decide if Bruno’s risky creative play is what he wants in his team as well. He seems like the United version of Arteta’s decision on Ozil at Arsenal.

Then he has to decide if the player who shall not be named returns or not to play our RW and back up ST.

Then I think our squad is fixed for a consistent title challenge. It seems like it will take another year/ 2 transfer seasons to make this happen - so the next season title challenge may be unrealistic unless we get bought by billionaires who spends it instantly but better quality than Chelsea’s expenditure.

Start on the two opposite ends of the pitch - GK & Striker, then improve the squad man for man.

I fully agree.

 

[acnumber9]

Relates to you

Plenty of people think he creates feck all. A flick pass to Dalot forty yards from goal along the touchline doesn’t count for anybody but you.

 

[acnumber9]

Of course it is - its all part of the same phase of play. We are not talking about the season - we are talking about the game on Sunday here - he was the only player who was creating anything.

The Dalot chance was from Antony not another player.

Dalot chance? Nobody in their right mind would consider that creating a chance. He was forty yards from goal.

 

[Roux]

Dalot chance? Nobody in their right mind would consider that creating a chance. He was forty yards from goal.

Sorry Sabizer not Dalot - should have been drilled in the bottom corner or squared to Weghorst for a tap in. He slipped passed 3 players for that chance leave Sabitzer free in the box.

 

[Skills]

Sorry Sabizer not Dalot - should have been drilled in the bottom corner or squared to Weghorst for a tap in

Which one was that? Was that the 3v3 break in which he refuses to attack his defender?

 

[Roux]

Which one was that? Was that the 3v3 break in which he refuses to attack his defender?

This one... he done Burn and drew 2 players towards him to leave Sabizter free

 

[Bebestation]

This one... he done Burn and drew 2 players towards him to leave Sabizter free

This is what he did for Weghorst to who just hit the net.

He also took on and beat his man from the right side 2 or 3 times rather than just cutting in on his left before he was subbed.

 

[Roux]

Of course I do. Everybody else is wrong but you.

But you are wrong about this... sometimes the 3rd pass before a goal is the most important - it can split a defence and lead to a tap in.

 

[poleglass red]

Yeah I don't see him making it if he doesn't change the way he plays,even Erik will reach breaking point with him then

Because Erik bought him and fought hard to get him as shown by how much we paid for him, I feel he will be given more leeway than a player he didn't buy. ETH has somewhat adapted his tactical approach due to what he has available to him, he will ultimately want to be a more possession based team. In that team, Antony would be a more useful asset than he is now. Playing off an actual number 9 will also help him. He will need to adapt his game as all young players do. Your first season is usually a free hit somewhat, defenders now know he wants to cut inside and shoot, so they will adapt. Top 4 was our aim this season and a cup, we are well on our way to that. Next season we will have bigger aims, and I think that would apply to Antony as well in terms of performances

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

He tried to finesse the ball and shoot too many times an this game, it was unbearable for me to see.

Just try other things mate, you can't do the exact same ting all the time, defenders will eventually figure you out.

 

[SirScholes]

If you speak to any City fan right now they wouldn't say they got screwed over for Grealish. He's in outstanding form and is now one of the first names on the teamsheet. Similarly to Antony, his first season was a transitional season where he appeared to be effective for large parts. It takes players time to bed in. All I'm saying is maybe we should wait until next season before we start having the conversation about whether or not Antony is a flop. Once we sign better players around him (a CF who could offer more than Weghorst would be nice), then chances are his performance levels will improve.

You just describe a passenger haha

So once we spend another couple hundred million, our 100m winger will get better, good to know

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

You just describe a passenger haha

So once we spend another couple hundred million, our 100m winger will get better, good to know

7 goals in 30 appearances isn't a bad return for a passenger.

 

[acnumber9]

But you are wrong about this... sometimes the 3rd pass before a goal is the most important - it can split a defence and lead to a tap in.

It’s never the most important. It may sometimes be the best pass but ultimately the final action is always the most important. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. His stats tell all.

 

[el3mel]

7 goals in 30 appearances isn't a bad return for a passenger.

7 goals and 1 assist in 31 matches for a winger is a pretty bad return. Like seriously it's godawful. Now that's without mentioning how much he costs.

One assist!

 

[acnumber9]

7 goals in 30 appearances isn't a bad return for a passenger.

It’s an ok return. Part of the problem though is how often he shoots. He’s in the 86th percentile for shots. From that, he should be scoring more.

 

[Bebestation]

He isn’t a 100mil player.

don’t know why people keep saying that.