He isn't, and that is the (only?) criticism of them as a pairing compared to say Bailly/Smalling and Blind.
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Clean sheets
- 18
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 0
- Status
How the hell does he still have an average rating of 5?
Dude should rack up those kind of goals more regularly because he seems to always get his head to the ball on offense.
I think he has a bit more composure on the ball, which probably arises from his (albeit late) youth development taking place in Spain. It lends the impression that he's actually better at distributing it than he is.
He makes significantly more passes (Bailly averages 40, Smalling 22) and he at least looks for the penetrative pass. Smalling plays the easy ball all the time. Bailly's not a great distributor but he's at least passable.
Bailly is certainly much better at distribution than Smalling. I think if Bailly 'looked' more like your ball-playing centre half he would get more credit for it.
Many people probably decided before even watching him play, and just by looking at him, that he's 'an aggressive defender and best paired with a ball playing partner'. It's lazy, and in my honest opinion, perhaps a bit of prejudice against African defenders. He's passed it well long and short all season and rarely misses a single pass, often drilling hem into feet at pace.
Many people probably decided before even watching him play, and just by looking at him, that he's 'an aggressive defender and best paired with a ball playing partner'. It's lazy, and in my honest opinion, perhaps a bit of prejudice against African defenders. He's passed it well long and short all season and rarely misses a single pass, often drilling hem into feet at pace.
I've just looked back on my ratings and have only given him a 7, bit harsh really he deserves an 8. Is there anyway of changing ratings after you post them?
Yeah, I'd say that's it. Altough, Bailly definitely has better pass in him, and has better technique, but I am just not sure if his passing is any more effective than Smalling's in an average game. In general, there isn't much difference in Smalling passing it to Blind to Bailly passing it to Valencia.
I agree that those two as a pairing aren't great with let's say Guardiola's style of football, but today we played our best game with these two as our CB pairing(we did have Blind on the left though which helped a bit).
Are you sure those stats aren't flawed due to Smalling playing less than Bailly? Because today Bailly had just 4 more passes, against Watford 8 more passes and against Feynoord Smalling actually had 13 more passes than Bailly, and those are the games they played together.
Yeah you're entirely right! If I look at it per 90 mins they both play around 40 per game. My bad...
I still think there's a pretty sizable gulf in terms of the ambition in the passes.
I don't know, I agree that Smalling needs to be better at this level, but I don't think Bailly is much more ambitious and effective passer than him. I also don't think Mourinho's team in general need great passers from the back, especially if we have midfielders who don't hide behind opposition players. I don't really think playing Smalling there might disrupt our attacking play significantly.
Not prejudice. I expected him to be more adventurous with his passing, having played in Spain. He is better on the ball than Smalling, but his passing isn't amazing.
That was Mike Smalling from the beginning of last season.
Agree, but now he has Bailly as the all action defender next to him, which suits Smalling very well. To me, Smalling is great at intercepting and sweeping up the ball should Bailly lose it. He has really great defensive awareness. Also, we need his aerial ability at the back. Bailly is very powerful, but sometimes he mis times his jumps or doesn't get into the duel well enough.
True, Bailly is sometimes to eager in some challenges so Smalling is then there to make up for his possible mistake.
What nonsense is this, Pogba doesn't show for the ball?
Eric is comfortably better on the ball. His on the ball skills are ridiculous and his passing whilst needing tweaking is still way ahead of Smalling.
Maybe I am an old fart and not up to speed with modern football but I really don't get the obsession with how good centre backs are on the ball. Sure, it would be great if they could start attacks from deep but the main job of a centre back is to stop the opposition scoring. Smalling is clearly the best at the club at that.
Bailly has great talent and makes some eye catching clearances but he's so impulsive that you always think a mistake is just around the corner. The Valencia/Bailly right side of defence scares me.
His game isn't to sit deep and collect the ball from the CBs, which is what I meant. Don't see anything that's "nonsense" about that?What nonsense is this, Pogba doesn't show for the ball?
It's nonsense to say Pogba doesn't show for the ball, and lumping him with Fellaini at that. Maybe you meant Florentin Pogba, I'll confess I haven't seen him play
fecking hell. Do you know what i mean by show for the ball? I mean a player who sits deep and picks up the ball from the CBs and FBs to start the play. E.g. Alonso, Carrick, Xavi.It's nonsense to say Pogba doesn't show for the ball, and lumping him with Fellaini at that. Maybe you meant Florentin Pogba, I'll confess I haven't seen him play
This isn't Pogba's game, nor is it Fellaini's. Are you dim or what?
Feck off and take a chill pill. The way you shift goal posts is exemplary though
. If that's what you meant then you should have it, instead you said he doesn't show for the ball on a consistent basis. Last time I checked he has been playing as a double pivot and doing it regularly, and people want him moved further up to see his attacking attributes.I already did mention it twice.Feck off and take a chill pill. The way you shift goal posts is exemplary though
Nice that you quote what you said trying to shift goal posts and leave out the nonsense I responded to. Again, very exemplary
Well, all top teams seem to find defenders with a good passing in them.
You can man-mark or press midfielders to make sure the other team have to go on hoofing ball and hope instead of giving meaningful passing lanes. Having a defender doing it will bypass their pressing line and pressure. We had welbeck or park man marking the other team's midfield passers before and it was very effective. But, not many will commit too much forward to press a defender because it could be suicidal and wasting energy.
It is not a coincidence that all the great and successful teams have some of them in their back line. Even our great teams in the past did usually.
Do a team need a defender who can pass the ball well? not really unless you are a top team inspiring to win lots of shit. Which we are. Even if we want to play jose's football whether counter attack or hoofing ball, having someone to pass accurately more often than not from the back will always have lots of advantages especially for counter attack you need to get the ball out quickly from the back.
Man Utd 1:0 Zorya
Very impressed with his distribution of the ball tonight. He won't ever be a Blind or Stones in that aspect, but he is looking more than competent on it.
Pushing out with it too, trying to make something happen when it was a flat 0-0. Slowly getting back to his best it seems.
Yeah, I wanted to bump this thread to say that. I think he was actually better than Bailly tonight in that department, and he is playing in a position that he isn't really comfortable at when having the ball at his feet.
Also, watching him and Bailly tonight I felt sorry for the opposition strikers, they gave up every time they had to challenge any of them for the ball.
Noticed that as well. Passed with much more speed and added a little more risk to his passing, which worked
They must be the most physically capable center back duo? But damn me is Fosuh Mensah fast!!!Yeah, I wanted to bump this thread to say that. I think he was actually better than Bailly tonight in that department, and he is playing in a position that he isn't really comfortable at when having the ball at his feet.
Also, watching him and Bailly tonight I felt sorry for the opposition strikers, they gave up every time they had to challenge any of them for the ball.
quietly efficient tonight, was aware he had 3 bombers around him in the back 4 and marshaled it well IMO.
One of him or Bailly need to step up and lead move the ball forward a lot quicker if they are going to play together.
They weren't helped by having Fellaini as our deepest midfielder to be fair to them. Still think it should only be one of Bailly or Smalling partnering Blind.
They weren't helped by having Fellaini as our deepest midfielder to be fair to them. Still think it should only be one of Bailly or Smalling partnering Blind.
Him, Bailly and Fellaini were all far too guilty of taking too many touches to release, or running with the ball and eventually passing backwards.
If we had a prime Michael Carrick or Xabi Alonso we could get away with Bailly/Smalling imo, but we don't. We will find it hard to beat teams who park the bus because we take too long and it lets them regain their shape.
Well, united fans are starting to appreciate how good passing from the back can do in 'modern games' especially when you are a top team.
We didn't seem to have that much of problem before as we had carrick doing it or rio doing it in his early day and not to mentioned scholes and keane. So I don't think most (average) fans noticed that.
Pace and power are all well and good but you can't play good football and win many with only that.
I've been saying it for ages. I've never rated Smalling or Jones for that matter anywhere near as highly as rest of the caf.
If he was even as good as Ashley Williams on the ball it'd be fine, but he's just not.
Thought he was pretty good. Obviously didn't have a lot to do, but what he had to do he did well.
No matter how the game evolves im 100% certain centerbacks job will never be to create the play or dictate the play. We are slow in the buildup? Ok, blame players who are responsible for that - 2 fullbacks and DM not a fecking centerback. First and foremost a CB should be a good defender and everything else is just a BONUS! Of course he should be able to do the basics because we dont want James Collins at the back but Smalling is good enough on the ball. Smalls is no Ferdinand or Pique but he is no worse then Nemanja Vidic, i guess people wouldnt take peak Nemanja back because he doesnt fit a modern way of playing and needs a second more on the ball then good ball playing CB....
Not belong to this thread but I would love see us getting back Keane for Either Rojo or Jhones. Kid is maturing into a useful player now
Not this crap again. Vidic was a very underestimated passer of the ball, way way better than Smalling. You got fooled because he might've looked clumsy and certainly not elegant.
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