Club Sale | It’s done!

[bosnian_red]

We can compete, financially, regardless. As much as I can agree that the Glazers are not good owners, I have never understood this rhetoric over the past decade plus that our ownership model prevents us from competing in the transfer market, despite annual evidence to the contrary. Unless what we are after is total financial dominance over every other club in the world, the narrative is just clearly false.

We can compete - but not the same way as if we were debt free or having money taken out by the glazers

Essentially we don't need or don't even want an owner to come in and pump money in. We need an owner who clears debts, doesn't take money out of the club and manages it well. So that the money we earn every year stays within the club. The money gets reinvested into the club to constantly improve and renovate facilities, and goes towards the squad/staff. It needs good decision makers who will just be in charge but not look at it as a tool to make money. Sure, increase valuation overall, but don't take out money or manage the business poorly.

If the glazers didn't a) load us with debts, b) didn't take money out of the club and c) hired someone smart to handle the club, then that's all they would have needed to do to be good owners.

 

[Mmxxii]

Apart from "non-commercial" buyers like investors from the Middle-East, the new owners of the club might resort to additional belt-tightening to make a return on their purchase. I feel this is an underestimated risk that anger toward the Glazers hasn't allowed many to explore. The Glazers' purchase of the club was shortly followed by years of relative under- investment. We are likely to see a repeat.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Ineos won't get it if the Middle East get involved. Not a chance.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

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The guy doesn't like Fred.

Bet he sees Fred in a different light after Fred divorced McTominay.

 

[Member 101269]

Sorry to burst a few bubbles:

In 2021 ineos had 1.3b in cash/equivalents, how much is united?

 

[Tiber]

Is anyone else feeling a bit ‘be careful what you wish for’?

I hate the Glazers, they’re parasites. But at least once they’ve creamed off their dividends they stay out of it. They’re also not slave driving gay bashers. Imagine if we get some Todd Boehly nutcase who wants to play DOF. Or they sack Ten Hag to bring their own man in.

How do they just stay out of it? the reports are that our transfers are so slow because the Glazers personally get involved with the financials of every bid

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

Damn Ratcliffe would mean no new stadium I reckon.

Arab states much needed to clear debt, fund new stadium and big revamp training ground

 

[PAZZA20]

How are Nice run?

Nicely.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Essentially we don't need or don't even want an owner to come in and pump money in. We need an owner who clears debts, doesn't take money out of the club and manages it well. So that the money we earn every year stays within the club. The money gets reinvested into the club to constantly improve and renovate facilities, and goes towards the squad/staff. It needs good decision makers who will just be in charge but not look at it as a tool to make money. Sure, increase valuation overall, but don't take out money or manage the business poorly.

If the glazers didn't a) load us with debts, b) didn't take money out of the club and c) hired someone smart to handle the club, then that's all they would have needed to do to be good owners.

Well if we want a new or upgraded stadium and the debt cleared the new owners would need to pay for that out of their pockets.

We have no where near enough money to pay for that without crippling out ability to continue the ETH project

 

[Gandalf]

I fail to see a downside to Ratcliffe here.

Already owns two clubs, both run badly, constantly chops and changes managers and interferes in the football side of things despite not being qualified. I call that a downside.

Will hope for the best if he ends up buying us but I would rather someone else come out on top in this process.

 

[bosnian_red]

Apart from "non-commercial" buyers like investors from the Middle-East, the new owners of the club might resort to additional belt-tightening to make a return on their purchase. I feel this is an underestimated risk that anger toward the Glazers hasn't allowed many to explore. The Glazers' purchase of the club was shortly followed by years of relative under- investment. We are likely to see a repeat.

We don't need a step up in spending compared to what we have on average over the past 10 years. Just do it smarter.

 

[bosnian_red]

Well if we want a new or upgraded stadium and the debt cleared the new owners would need to pay for that out of their pockets.

We have no where near enough money to pay for that without crippling out ability to continue the ETH project

Well the debt would be incorporated into the price of the club and cleared with the takeover, no?

Stadium is a big separate project that has to be taken into account when it comes to the price of the club as well, but yeah that's the one big thing that needs investment because we are playing catch up. Generally, if it wasn't neglected, we wouldn't need so much money to get it up to standard, and we could manage it all internally.

 

[JPRouve]

Disagree; they don't have much cash at all. I suggest you read their annual reports.

It's not a bank they are not supposed to keep lots of cash but even then they somehow have 2.7bn in cash and cash equivalents, the rest is simply not liquid and needs more time to be available. Now if you look around these kinds of purchases aren't paid cash, they are generally done progressively. For example on the time of the agreeement the buyer may acquire 40%, in six months 20 more percents are scheduled to be purchased and in 18 months the rest.

 

[Wheato]

Sorry to burst a few bubbles:

In 2021 ineos had 1.3b in cash/equivalents, how much is united?

Jim Ratcliffe/Net worth
15.5 billion USD

 

[AneRu]

It’s more than just transfers.

In 2018 when we had our last truly competitive season weren't our revenues touching £700m then? If we started a stadium project then and still remained competitive whilst not wasting money on overrated average players where would we be? And this was under the Glazers who never invested anything towards the operations of the club.

If we get an owner than can fund the stadium build and clear the Glazers debt then we can compete and still end up making them money from the stadium and overall football progress over time. The Glazers reportedly want £5b, pay that and invest another £2.2b (1.6b for stadium, £300m for transfers in the first summer and another £200m for training ground refurbishment) you are done for a decade or so because United can and will generate enough funds to compete with anyone.

The key, for me, is the scouting and recruitment structure behind the manager. We need to bring in people who can identify and bring in top young talent. I like what Murtough has done with Garnacho and the likes of Mejbri. We should continue on that trend, expand on it to include South America and look to create relationships with clubs in the Championship, in Holland and France to smoothen their rise to first team football.

I think Ratcliffe knows he will be outgun so he is creating hype in the media to pressure the Glazers, the FA and PL to elbow out ME competitors. There will be serious fear amongst the rest of the league if we get a state owner and Sir Jim by going public he is counting on his acceptability to the funds and the fact that the PL wont worry about him ever turning our immense potential into a Bayern Munich of England, something the Saudis and Qataris could do.

 

[Roboc7]

Good news, but what worries me is if there are loads of bids, then who is there to stop the Glazers taking the one that is the best for them, ie the highest price, but the worst for United, ie debt funded buyout?

Dubai is appealing, but I'd take Ratcliffe now personally.

They are going to take the bid they want to take, they won’t care In the slightest what happens to the club.

The cost of borrowing and price of the club are too high now to have another leveraged buyout. Good chance there will be plenty of debt in any takeover but will be secured elsewhere.

 

[bosnian_red]

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[laughtersassassin]

Well the debt would be incorporated into the price of the club and cleared with the takeover, no?

Stadium is a big separate project that has to be taken into account when it comes to the price of the club as well, but yeah that's the one big thing that needs investment because we are playing catch up. Generally, if it wasn't neglected, we wouldn't need so much money to get it up to standard, and we could manage it all internally.

If new owners wished and the bank's/loan providers agreed I'm sure they could continue our debt repayments in very much the same way.

There is no guarantee a new owner wipes off the debt.

We just have to pray that they do

 

[JPRouve]

Mark Messier fan? Only explanation for those references

We are likely talking to Jean-Marie Messier. @Messier1994

 

[UnitedSofa]

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[Brophs]

I fail to see a downside to Ratcliffe here.

The lack of success elsewhere in football and Brailsford would be among my main worries. Assuming that expertise in one discipline will translate to another is the sort of arrogant assumption that often finds favour with the very rich and successful. Without even mentioning the fact that he presided over a cycling team which, at best, has massive questions to answer on its approach to doping. With all that said, though, it certainly beats the alternatives that are being mentioned.

 

[Member 101269]

Jim Ratcliffe/Net worth
15.5 billion USD

Blah.. where is that capital figure calculated from?

 

[Member 101269]

It's not a bank they are not supposed to keep lots of cash but even then they somehow have 2.7bn in cash and cash equivalents, the rest is simply not liquid and needs more time to be available. Now if you look around these kinds of purchases aren't paid cash, they are generally done progressively. For example on the time of the agreeement the buyer may acquire 40%, in six months 20 more percents are scheduled to be purchased and in 18 months the rest.

Like I said they cannot afford united, what you're suggesting is nickel and diming

 

[Messier1994]

Mark Messier fan? Only explanation for those references

Haha, you bet! And the 1994 part gives away the team too. Perhaps I got a little carried away with the jokes after seeing the Ratcliffe jokes, but at the same time, its what I love about this place. People get references like that.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

I’ve got no issues with Ineos but the main question for me is if they can actually afford the work that is required - pay off the debt, improve the stadium & training facilities, provide ETH with the funds he needs to carry out his vision and able to have us compete at the top of European football again. All of that’s not even including the £5B asking price that those leeches have set.

This is why, not saying they are who I want, I won’t be surprised if we are bought over by the Middle East.

Again this is going to begin to hot up now as it’s just the start of the news coming through on actual names on who wants to buy us and there is no doubt that there will be more interested parties that want to buy us beginning to emerge over the coming days/weeks.

 

[bosnian_red]

Like I said they cannot afford united, what you're suggesting is nickel and diming

Not at all... He is just explaining how these things are done. They have to turn assets into cash which is normal. Because it is dumb to just sit on cash and not have it invested.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Is registering interest cooperate for preparing a bid?

 

[ForeverRed1]

Is anyone else feeling a bit ‘be careful what you wish for’?

I hate the Glazers, they’re parasites. But at least once they’ve creamed off their dividends they stay out of it. They’re also not slave driving gay bashers. Imagine if we get some Todd Boehly nutcase who wants to play DOF. Or they sack Ten Hag to bring their own man in.

It would be anarchy if they sacked him.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Already owns two clubs, both run badly, constantly chops and changes managers and interferes in the football side of things despite not being qualified. I call that a downside.

Will hope for the best if he ends up buying us but I would rather someone else come out on top in this process.

He runs Nice like a self sustaining business rather than a sugar daddy. Took them to a 5th placed finish last year and qualified for Europe.

 

[Messier1994]

It's not a bank they are not supposed to keep lots of cash but even then they somehow have 2.7bn in cash and cash equivalents, the rest is simply not liquid and needs more time to be available. Now if you look around these kinds of purchases aren't paid cash, they are generally done progressively. For example on the time of the agreeement the buyer may acquire 40%, in six months 20 more percents are scheduled to be purchased and in 18 months the rest.

Yeah, and often the bank simply finance an acquisition. If you can pay 1/4 of an acquisition in cash, its not bad.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Surely it'll be an Ineos lead consortium, not them alone.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, and often the bank simply finance an acquisition. If you can pay 1/4 of an acquisition in cash, its not bad.

That's true but you often hear about a bank "sponsoring" the deal which may happen but it hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

[Member 101269]

Yeah, and often the bank simply finance an acquisition. If you can pay 1/4 of an acquisition in cash, its not bad.

Which again is a leveraged buy out.

 

[Adam-Utd]

we don’t need 300m a year, we just need debt free and smart people at the club.

 

[Gandalf]

He runs Nice like a self sustaining business rather than a sugar daddy. Took them to a 5th placed finish last year and qualified for Europe.

At present that won't be of much use to us. The Glazers won't be paying off the debt on their way out of the door and we are still looking at needing massive investment into the ground and facilities. Had the leeches not sucked so much out of the club over the past 17 years then we could run as a self sustaining business but sadly the damage has been done. We need a significant cash investment, billions frankly, or we can spend the next decade on an austerity budget and good luck competing in those circumstances.

 

[Someone]

It's good to see someone officially showing interest. At least we now know that a Q1 sale is likely.

 

[stubie]

Just hope this breaking news triggers a reaction from Qatar or Dubai.

Middle East ownership of the club is for the best going forward, more off the pitch with the infrastructure needed

 

[ForeverRed1]

Jim Ratcliffe/Net worth
15.5 billion USD

So he’s going to spend almost half of it buying united.. that’s without mentioning the debt and the cost of building new stadium and investing across the club.

 

[bosnian_red]

Which again is a leveraged buy out.

Nope, extremely different

Think of it like buying a house. You put a downpayment on and you have a mortgage in your name. A leveraged buyout is the mortgage would be on the houses name, and you would have nothing to do with it.

 

[Suv666]

I do like the idea of Ratcliffe over sportwashers, but are there legitimate concerns on how his ownership of Nice has gone?

Yeah he doesn't have the best record. Not sure about this Ratcliffe fella. Hopefully this'll get the ball rolling and we will hear of more offers soon.