Club Sale | It’s done!

[NotThatSoph]

The anti Qatar propaganda hugely exaggerates the problem and is rarely factual. Hence why we see people using words like “atrocity” or “evil bastards” What atrocity is being committed in Qatar or by Qatar? Rather insulting when you actually have real atrocities being committed in Ukraine, or you have genuine persecution in China/Palestine.

Last time someone linked you an article by Human Rights Watch, documenting abuse of LGBT+ people. Your response?

"Don’t see how you equate Qatar asking people not wear the lgbt logo to people being stoned and IS taking over a war torn country and lgbt jumping from roof tops."

You're not actually asking a question here, you're pretending.

 

[sglowrider]

More like the Y factor as in why on earth did we let these leeches near this club in 05

It's the PL and their parochial old men who wrote the rules. That's why I was never as angry at the Glazers as the PL bosses.

The rules were there to be exploited.

As Big Chris in Lock Stock said the opportunity was there. In my experience, it's best to take that opportunity. If it's there.

 

[AlPistacho]

take it to the correct thread please

After you.

 

[AlPistacho]

Last time someone linked you an article by Human Rights Watch, documenting abuse of LGBT+ people. Your response?

"Don’t see how you equate Qatar asking people not wear the lgbt logo to people being stoned and IS taking over a war torn country and lgbt jumping from roof tops."

You're not actually asking a question here, you're pretending.

Because those were things the poster wrote in relation to Qatar!

 

[NotThatSoph]

Because those were things the poster wrote in relation to Qatar!

No.

 

[AlPistacho]

No.

Yes. Someone wrote about IS taking over, lgbt jumping off of roof tops. Just like before we had someone make a comment about crucifixions during HT at Old Trafford.

 

[mu4c_20le]

There is some much energy wasted here over something people have ZERO control over -- other than to stop supporting United.

A few pages of discussion I can understand -- bare your soul, online catharsis, therapy etc.

But 700+pages? Ridiculous.

 

[Tarrou]

After you.

I don’t want to discuss Qatars human rights abuses, so I’ll leave you to it

 

[AlPistacho]

I don’t want to discuss Qatars human rights abuses, so I’ll leave you to it

Ironic. After you posted something about Qatari women not being allowed to marry foreigners and I quoted you the Qatari law showing you that they are!

 

[Tarrou]

Ironic. After you posted something about Qatari women not being allowed to marry foreigners and I quoted you the Qatari law showing you that they are!

again, if you want to discuss their human rights abuses there is a place for it

 

[NotThatSoph]

Yes. Someone wrote about IS taking over, lgbt jumping off of roof tops. Just like before we had someone make a comment about crucifixions during HT at Old Trafford.

You were linked this article: Qatar: Security Forces Arrest, Abuse LGBT People.

Some snippets:

All said that Preventive Security Department officers detained them in an underground prison in Al Dafneh, Doha, where they verbally harassed and subjected detainees to physical abuse, ranging from slapping to kicking and punching until they bled. One woman said she lost consciousness. Security officers also inflicted verbal abuse, extracted forced confessions, and denied detainees access to legal counsel, family, and medical care. All six said that police forced them to sign pledges indicating that they would “cease immoral activity.”

All were detained without charge, in one case for two months in solitary confinement, without access to legal counsel. None received any record of having been detained. These acts could constitute arbitrary detention under international human rights law.

A transgender Qatari woman said that after security forces arrested her on the street in Doha, Preventive Security officers accused her of “imitating women” because of her gender expression. In the police car, they beat her until her lips and nose were bleeding and kicked her in the stomach, she said. “You gays are immoral, so we will be the same to you,” she said one officer told her.

“I saw many other LGBT people detained there: two Moroccan lesbians, four Filipino gay men, and one Nepalese gay man,” she said. “I was detained for three weeks without charge, and officers repeatedly sexually harassed me. Part of the release requirement was attending sessions with a psychologist who ‘would make me a man again.’”

Another Qatari transgender woman said she was arrested in public by Preventive Security Department forces because she was wearing makeup. “They gave me hand wipes and made me wipe the makeup off my face,” she said. “They used the makeup-stained wipes as evidence against me and took a picture of me with the wipes in my hand. They also shaved my hair.” Security forces made her sign a pledge that she would not wear makeup again as a condition for her release, she said.

A Qatari bisexual woman said: “[Preventive Security officers] beat me until I lost consciousness several times. An officer took me blindfolded by car to another place that felt like a private home from the inside and forced me to watch restrained people getting beaten as an intimidation tactic.”

A Qatari transgender woman, arrested by Preventive Security in public in Doha, said: “They [Preventive Security] are a mafia. They detained me twice, once for two months in a solitary cell underground, and once for six weeks. They beat me every day and shaved my hair. They also made me take off my shirt and took a picture of my breasts. I suffered from depression because of my detention. I still have nightmares to this day, and I’m terrified of being in public.”

In all cases, LGBT detainees said, Preventive Security forces forced them to unlock their phones and took screenshots of private pictures and chats from their devices, as well as contact information of other LGBT people.

A Qatari gay man who has experienced government repression, including arbitrary arrest, said that security forces surveilled and arrested him based on his online activity.

After reading about this abuse, you replied:

Don’t see how you equate Qatar asking people not wear the lgbt logo to people being stoned and IS taking over a war torn country and lgbt jumping from roof tops.

Just out of curiosity & to see you actual understanding of the world and reality. Who do you think would fair better. Someone wearing the lgbt logo in Qatar, or someone who does it in Ukraine ?

 

[AlPistacho]

again, if you want to discuss their human rights abuses there is a place for it

Glad you’ve discovered. Now this thread can go back to what it’s supposed to be about.

 

[Lay]

I don’t think you guys are on topic

 

[AlPistacho]

You were linked this article: Qatar: Security Forces Arrest, Abuse LGBT People.

Some snippets:













After reading about this abuse, you replied:

I didn’t read the article because because the poster was talking about IS and LGBT being forced to jump out of buildings.

You’ve gone back that far but can’t see some of the nonsense that was being posted? Hence the need for the “post respectfully”

I’ve read it. “Security forces arrested people in public places based solely on their gender expression and unlawfully searched their phones”

This is the key and what, as you know having read all my posts, I’ve always said. They are not breaking into peoples homes searching for LGBT. But what will happen is any display of socially unacceptable (to them) behaviour in public is that they will clamp down on it. Be it straight couples, same sex couples, people being drunk, people being dressed inappropriately.

I don’t approve of the treatment of those 6 people. But the fact is they were arrested for what they did in public. Which is what I’ve always said about Qatar, be you straight or lgbt in public be careful.

 

[Suedesi]

He's not the same as the Qatari government or state run companies though. That's like saying Joe Biden owns Man United.

If US was a country of 400,000 people and Joe Biden ruled the country and controlled its assets and wealth distribution, then yes your analogy would be correct.

 

[NotThatSoph]

I didn’t read the article because because the poster was talking about IS and LGBT being forced to jump out of buildings.

You’ve gone back that far but can’t see some of the nonsense that was being posted? Hence the need for the “post respectfully”

The poster specifically said that those things aren't happening in Qatar, but the things described in the article are. You're the one who was talking about flags, not them.

I didn't go back that far, I remembered it from when it happened, and found it very funny that you're now here still pretending to be asking about what actually happens in Qatar. You're not, you're not interested. You didn't even bother to read the article!

 

[AlPistacho]

The poster specifically said that those things aren't happening in Qatar, but the things described in the article are. You're the one who was talking about flags, not them.

I didn't go back that far, I remembered it from when it happened, and found it very funny that you're now here still pretending to be asking about what actually happens in Qatar. You're not, you're not interested. You didn't even bother to read the article!

The poster acknowledged he got carried away after I called him out on it.


I’ve read the article. “Security forces arrested people in public places based solely on their gender expression and unlawfully searched their phones”

This is the key and what, as you know having read all my posts, I’ve always said. They are not breaking into peoples homes searching for LGBT. But what will happen is any display of socially unacceptable (to them) behaviour in public is that they will clamp down on it. Be it straight couples getting frisky, same sex couples, people being drunk, people being dressed inappropriately.

I don’t approve of the treatment of those 6 people over a 10 year period. But the fact is they were arrested for what they did in public. Which is what I’ve always said about Qatar, be you straight or lgbt in public don’t express it. If you drink don’t be drunk in public, or don’t walk around with a bottle down the street.

 

[croadyman]

This! Anyone saying a Qatar(i) bid isn't state back, really needs a reality check.

I know it's state backed but don't bother me

 

[croadyman]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Ah finally Ratcliffe has to show his hand in regards to improving stadium and facilities,hope he has plans able to rival Jassim

 

[NotThatSoph]

The poster acknowledged he got carried away after I called him out on it.


I’ve read the article. “Security forces arrested people in public places based solely on their gender expression and unlawfully searched their phones”

This is the key and what, as you know having read all my posts, I’ve always said. They are not breaking into peoples homes searching for LGBT. But what will happen is any display of socially unacceptable (to them) behaviour in public is that they will clamp down on it. Be it straight couples getting frisky, same sex couples, people being drunk, people being dressed inappropriately.

I don’t approve of the treatment of those 6 people. But the fact is they were arrested for what they did in public. Which is what I’ve always said about Qatar, be you straight or lgbt in public don’t express it. If you drink don’t be drunk in public, or don’t walk around with a bottle down the street.

In all cases, LGBT detainees said, Preventive Security forces forced them to unlock their phones and took screenshots of private pictures and chats from their devices, as well as contact information of other LGBT people.

A Qatari gay man who has experienced government repression, including arbitrary arrest, said that security forces surveilled and arrested him based on his online activity.

You have a weird relationship with the truth.

 

[AlPistacho]

You have a weird relationship with the truth.

10 people over a 4 year period being arrested in public is not systematic persecution of a group. If you think it is you really don’t know what persecution is.

Like I’ve always said the Qataris are not actively going out persecuting the LGBT community. The policy to that, and things like sex before marriage, drinking is what goes on in the house should stay in the house.

 

[Bert_]

If US was a country of 400,000 people and Joe Biden ruled the country and controlled its assets and wealth distribution, then yes your analogy would be correct.

I know. I was being a bit flippant but its a shame some folks on here apparently jump to that conclusion. They probably don't really believe it but still need a hill to die on.

 

[NotThatSoph]

10 people over a 4 year period being arrested in public is not systematic persecution of a group. If you think it is you really don’t know what persecution is.

Like I’ve always said the Qataris are not actively going out persecuting the LGBT community. The policy to that, and things like sex before marriage, drinking is what goes on in the house stays in the house.

This isn't a survey, it's an interview with a few people. You know this.

But good, we have arrived at denial. I was wondering what tactic you were going to use, and now I know. To be honest I would have guessed that you'd go for the hypocricy or relativism angle, but I was wrong.

 

[AlPistacho]

This isn't a survey, it's an interview with a few people. You know this.

But good, we have arrived at denial. I was wondering what tactic you were going to use, and now I know. To be honest I would have guessed that you'd go for the hypocricy or relativism angle, but I was wrong.

Please tell me where there is systematic persecution of the LGBT community? Are they actively searching social media and finding out who is LGBT and then going into their homes? Why were all the arrests made in public? Persecution involves seeking out, going to peoples homes. Finally a big report and investigation by a humans right group and all they found were 10 or so cases over a 4 year period? Again, the treatment was horrendous, no doubt some of those officers were taking out their own homophobic tendencies on people, but if there was systematic persecution don’t you think there’d be more cases? Or even more stories from those they interviewed? Yet those interviewed only told of stories of a few others being arrested in public.

I’m pretty sure you could do a similar report for heterosexual couples or people drinking in public.

 

[Bert_]

A simple piece of advice - worry about what you can control and forget about what you have no control over.

feck me. Imagine if everyone in human history only held that belief

 

[sglowrider]

Taking into account that there has been nearly 28,000 comments in this thread whats your point?

 

[sglowrider]

feck me. Imagine if everyone in human history only held that belief

Well, that's why you have people who are more stressed than others. Getting outraged and worked up over something that you have no control over is self-defeating.

 

[NK86]

I don't think people understand what "stay on topic" actually means.

Great that we have news about the next round of bidding. This now seems to be a guarantee that we will finally be rid of the Glazers. Let's hope this concludes fast so that we can plan for the summer window and build upon what we are achieving this season. This just feels like the season Liverpool were having under Klopp just before they got their first title. A few good additions and we should be challenging for the title next one.

 

[Bert_]

Well, that's why you have people who are more stressed than others.

It's also the reason you aren't smearing shit on a cave wall for entertainment wondering why the fire in the sky keeps falling.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Please tell me where there is systematic persecution of the LGBT community? Are they actively searching social media and finding out who is LGBT and then going into their homes? Why where all the arrests made in public? Persecution involves seeking out, going to peoples homes. Finally a big report and investigation by a humans right group and all they found were 10 or so cases over a 4 year period? Again, the treatment was horrendous, no doubt some of those officers were taking out their own homophobic tendencies on people, but if there was systematic persecution don’t you think there’d be more cases? Or even more stories from those they interviewed? Yet those interviewed only told of stories of a few others being arrested in public.

I’m pretty sure you could do a similar report for heterosexual couples or people drinking in public.

Again you just lie and lie. This wasn't a report trying to document numbers or find survivors, it was an interview with some people who were put in contact with HRW to explain how the abuse happens.

There's no point in discussing anything with you, because you routinely lie. It's out in the open now that you're denying that LGBT+ people are persecuted in Qatar, and that's that.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Let me guess? Right wing views from the Manchester United Conservative Party?

Or did we have a debate with mixed views like on here?

Instead of guessing why don't you watch the link.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

…Football is better when you stick to football, or you’ll get your mind in all sorts of bother.

Here he is, the anti Gandhi.

Let's see if Putin wants to buy the club while we're at it. Don't get your head in a bother.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I don’t want to discuss Qatars human rights abuses, so I’ll leave you to it

But its you who brought it up and got it wrong.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

For some of us supporting Manchester United is not above principles and morals.

And if you were someone close to me I'd tell you to give your head a hood wobble...
Selling out and ignoring the atrocities that the Qatari rulers are responsible and stand for in the name of trophies and transfers is pathetic.

One thing is for sure, I won't be like 99% of City fans, blindly defending the owners. I'll happily direct criticism at them. Just like I do with the Glazers.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Ironic. After you posted something about Qatari women not being allowed to marry foreigners and I quoted you the Qatari law showing you that they are!

Nothing funnier than seeing people embarrassing themselves with ignorance and playing the "I don't want to dicuss this" card when corrected

 

[NK86]

Here he is, the anti Gandhi.

Let's see if Putin wants to buy the club while we're at it. Don't get your head in a bother.

Are you comparing Gandhi's actions to you and others continuously regurtitaing the same points for the last 700 page? Will your posting on something you have literally no control over change anything unless you plan on taking action? Are you planning to give up on following United if Qatar takes over or will you go to OT with banners and lead protests for these now or later?

By now it should be clear that opinions held by individual posters cannot be changed, so what's the point in discussing this nonstop and derailing the thread?

Think there's another thread around morality where these posts can be taken. In fact why wait on United being taken over to discuss this in the takeover thread, create a thread to discuss this amongst other stuff happening all over the world.

 

[Wumminator]

Nothing funnier than seeing people embarrassing themselves with ignorance and playing the "I don't want to dicuss this" card when corrected

I’ve been out of this thread for ages now, just a quick question - do you think it is ignorant to say that Qatar is one of the worst places in the world for human rights then?!?!?

 

[Jerry Garcia]

I don't think people understand what "stay on topic" actually means.

I’m actually shocked this thread hasn’t turned into a “Messi vs Ronaldo” thread at this stage.

 

[NK86]

I’m actually shocked this thread hasn’t turned into a “Messi vs Ronaldo” thread at this stage.

And it's the same set of posters who are absolutely tripping over each other to somehow prove a point which the other won't agree with.

At this point this thread has become useless and I have to sift through pages of this same nonsense to read a tweet or a discussion on something relevant to our takeover.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Taking into account that there has been nearly 28,000 comments in this thread whats your point?

Well, you're clearly a big part of it, so you're one of us. Whether it's people joking, or fighting, or reacting to some news. It's not always bickering or human rights, but it's certainly the main concern. Otherwise the thread would just be one big circle jerk of which big star to sign with the oil money.