[kundalini]

De Gea's save percentage in the PL going into this match was 57.6% - which is rubbish. Normally he would be above 70%, 75 - 80% in a good season, his lowest full season so far in the PL is 69%. Yet he doesn't appear to be making many clear errors. So something is going on.

It looks to me as though his movement and positioning has declined significantly.

For the first goal, he is positioned as if there were no United players attempting to block the shot.

On their 2nd goal, the moment it becomes clear that Perez has crossed the ball, rather than taken a shot, De Gea should be looking to position himself in the centre of the goal to maximise the chances of saving any shot on target. Instead, he continues to move towards his near post even after Perez has made contact, then is slow to move back towards the centre of the goal, then sees Vardy's off-target shot get deflected by Tuanzebe, with the ball crossing the line not far from the centre of the goal; it may still have been out of reach but it would have been close.

 

[spiriticon]

Should have been here - so he would have saved that.

You may as well move De Gea up a couple of metres more and ask him to make a sliding tackle

 

[arnie_ni]

Should have been here - so he would have saved that.

Controlling his box

 

[Lennon7]

I think our expectations of Dave are so high because of how class he used to be. Old De Gea would’ve saved that and it would’ve been unreal, but not many keepers would.

 

[Borys]

De Gea's save percentage in the PL going into this match was 57.6% - which is rubbish. Normally he would be above 70%, 75 - 80% in a good season, his lowest full season so far in the PL is 69%. Yet he doesn't appear to be making many clear errors. So something is going on.

It looks to me as though his movement and positioning has declined significantly.

For the first goal, he is positioned as if there were no United players attempting to block the shot.

On their 2nd goal, the moment it becomes clear that Perez has crossed the ball, rather than taken a shot, De Gea should be looking to position himself in the centre of the goal to maximise the chances of saving any shot on target. Instead, he continues to move towards his near post even after Perez has made contact, then is slow to move back towards the centre of the goal, then sees Vardy's off-target shot get deflected by Tuanzebe, with the ball crossing the line not far from the centre of the goal; it may still have been out of reach but it would have been close.

Be careful, you will be accused of dark magic with that "according to stats" approach. I've been there already.

He's second worst goalkeeper in the League in that "shot stopping" metric. Considering he doesn't do much more, it makes you wonder if we're getting what we pay for.

Now I don't blame him directly for any of goals today, first was a good shot and second was class from Vardy and a bit of luck. However, I do think he's as much to blame for our defense looking shaky as anyone. He doesn't inspire confidence at all. I'd give Henderson a run just because of that.

 

[The Oracle]

It's a sign of the times that when De Gea was holding his back today, I was actually hoping he would go off.

What was telling today was that he stays rooted to his goal line. There were crosses being put in right on the 6-yard box, and he didn't move an inch off his line. He doesn't inspire a single ounce of confidence into our defence and I will be glad once he has left our club.

With regards the Barnes goal he didn't shift properly to his right, and he should have taken an extra step before diving to save it.

With regards the Vardy deflection goal, his positioning was rubbish. Once the cross had come in he should have shifted himself to be in the centre of the goal... and guess what...? He would've saved it.

Just remember this: He has not saved a penalty in the league for over 6 years, yet he is the highest paid goalkeeper in World football.
What is he actually good at any more?
I'm tired of him.

 

[Bebestation]

It's a sign of the times that when De Gea was holding his back today, I was actually hoping he would go off.

What was telling today was that he stays rooted to his goal line. There were crosses being put in right on the 6-yard box, and he didn't move an inch off his line. He doesn't inspire a single ounce of confidence into our defence and I will be glad once he has left our club.

With regards the Barnes goal he didn't shift properly to his right, and he should have taken an extra step before diving to save it.

With regards the Vardy deflection goal, his positioning was rubbish. Once the cross had come in he should have shifted himself to be in the centre of the goal... and guess what...? He would've saved it.

Just remember this: He has not saved a penalty in the league for over 6 years, yet he is the highest paid goalkeeper in World football.
What is he actually good at any more?
I'm tired of him.

It showed a little sign of his mentality.

 

[eire-red]

Should have saved the first goal today. It's starting to become a trend with him, the free kicks vs Istanbul and Southampton are two more that the De Gea of old surely would have saved.

Ole has to make a call. No successful team I can recall has ever rotated goalkeepers, apart from cup games. As for the debate on who should be our keeper going forward, I would go with Henderson.

For me DDG is on a steady decline, and surely Henderson will only get better? He may make mistakes along the way, but so will DDG.

 

[MattofManchester]

He's second worst goalkeeper in the League in that "shot stopping" metric.

Who's the worst?

 

[Borys]

Who's the worst?

Table sorted by % of shots on target saved. By the way, he was always in top5 in previous 4 seasons.

 

[The Oracle]

Should have saved the first goal today. It's starting to become a trend with him, the free kicks vs Istanbul and Southampton are two more that the De Gea of old surely would have saved.

Ole has to make a call. No successful team I can recall has ever rotated goalkeepers, apart from cup games. As for the debate on who should be our keeper going forward, I would go with Henderson.

For me DDG is on a steady decline, and surely Henderson will only get better? He may make mistakes along the way, but so will DDG.

This is a worrying trend that we are doing.

Our 2nd choice keeper successfully gets us past the Quarter-Final stages of competitions, and then we bring De Gea in for the Semi-Finals... and we all know what that meant last season.

Ole will do the same this season, and that is why I am dreading the Semi-Final against City.

 

[criticalanalysis]

It's a sign of the times that when De Gea was holding his back today, I was actually hoping he would go off.

What was telling today was that he stays rooted to his goal line. There were crosses being put in right on the 6-yard box, and he didn't move an inch off his line. He doesn't inspire a single ounce of confidence into our defence and I will be glad once he has left our club.

With regards the Barnes goal he didn't shift properly to his right, and he should have taken an extra step before diving to save it.

With regards the Vardy deflection goal, his positioning was rubbish. Once the cross had come in he should have shifted himself to be in the centre of the goal... and guess what...? He would've saved it.

Just remember this: He has not saved a penalty in the league for over 6 years, yet he is the highest paid goalkeeper in World football.
What is he actually good at any more?
I'm tired of him.

This is a harsh take but on the whole I can only bitterly agree.

This is a worrying trend that we are doing.

Our 2nd choice keeper successfully gets us past the Quarter-Final stages of competitions, and then we bring De Gea in for the Semi-Finals... and we all know what that meant last season.

Ole will do the same this season, and that is why I am dreading the Semi-Final against City.

I don't think he will do the dirty to Henderson like that. For a start his 'status' is more higher than Romero's was last year and it would not go down well with Dean I'd imagine.

 

[MattofManchester]

Table sorted by % of shots on target saved. By the way, he was always in top5 in previous 4 seasons.

While it's notable where he is in that table, I'm struggling to remember any goals that could have been prevented by him up till today. I know there are a few, but I honestly can't remember.

I'm not sure whether we look at him or the defense. I think we look at both, because there's clearly no assertiveness in organization the back line going on back there.

In terms of today, I do and don't blame him if that makes sense.

It was a powerful shot, and I'm not sure he would have saved it, but at the very least, I would think he'd have got a hand on it. He should be slightly more ready as well, given Barnes was clearly and freely lining up a shot.

That was certainly a lot slower than what we're used to seeing from him. Like his legs were made of lead.

But to be fair, he's the least of the issues I think we have right now. I do think Dean deserves a regular chance to stake his claim, as there's not a big difference between them anymore,but we'll see what happens.

 

[arthurka]

He looks absolutely shot.

 

[eire-red]

This is a worrying trend that we are doing.

Our 2nd choice keeper successfully gets us past the Quarter-Final stages of competitions, and then we bring De Gea in for the Semi-Finals... and we all know what that meant last season.

Ole will do the same this season, and that is why I am dreading the Semi-Final against City.

Yeah Romero has been done badly a few times, and it's not as if he was ever shaky or anything. He often made some crucial saves on our cup runs.

I don't think any team can win the title without a settled back 5, and a nailed on No. 1 GK is arguably the most important component. Ole needs to sort it quickly.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Why are everyone criticizing De gea when Bruno was at fault for the goal?

Because this is the De Gea thread. Bruno gets blame as well as he shouldn't be trying to nutmeg players in our own half. But there's lots to do after Bruno loses the ball and De Gea's positioning is absolutely awful on the shot. Should have been a routine save if his positioning was better. As Barnes cuts across the 18 De Gea should be shifting across with him. Instead he is planted almost in the middle of the goal when all Barnes has to shoot at is about 3 feet worth of the goal as Bailley has taken away the rest of the goal. VDS would have saved that easily and same with any other keeper who is brilliant at the basics of goal keeping....

 

[Borys]

While it's notable where he is in that table, I'm struggling to remember any goals that could have been prevented by him up till today. I know there are a few, but I honestly can't remember.

I'm not sure whether we look at him or the defense. I think we look at both, because there's clearly no assertiveness in organization the back line going on back there.

In terms of today, I do and don't blame him if that makes sense.

It was a powerful shot, and I'm not sure he would have saved it, but at the very least, I would think he'd have got a hand on it. He should be slightly more ready as well, given Barnes was clearly and freely lining up a shot.

That was certainly a lot slower than what we're used to seeing from him. Like his legs were made of lead.

But to be fair, he's the least of the issues I think we have right now. I do think Dean deserves a regular chance to stake his claim, as there's not a big difference between them anymore,but we'll see what happens.

I agree with almost everything in your post. He was never at fault for us losing points this season. However, he's not really "saving our backs" anymore. And it's not really up and down with him, he's just not doing it anymore. A lot of shots just flies past him labeled "impossible to save". I think people need to watch his saves from previous seasons before they make that judgment to be honest.

One thing I disagree about is "he's the least of our issues", which I don't think is true because he's big part of the reason why defense is looking so shaky. I don't know what is the main reason for this, but De Gea plays big role imo. He doesn't inspire confidence at all.

 

[GifLord]

Because this is the De Gea thread. Bruno gets blame as well as he shouldn't be trying to nutmeg players in our own half. But there's lots to do after Bruno loses the ball and De Gea's positioning is absolutely awful on the shot. Should have been a routine save if his positioning was better. As Barnes cuts across the 18 De Gea should be shifting across with him. Instead he is planted almost in the middle of the goal when all Barnes has to shoot at is about 3 feet worth of the goal as Bailley has taken away the rest of the goal. VDS would have saved that easily and same with any other keeper who is brilliant at the basics of goal keeping....

Look at the vision ddg has

Baily is completely covering the player and the ball. You can't do anything if the ball goes past the defender like it did with Baily

 

[sullydnl]

Table sorted by % of shots on target saved. By the way, he was always in top5 in previous 4 seasons.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that use of stats as it doesn't take into account the difficulty of the shots faced, which is directly dependent on how different teams opt to defend.

For example, I'm not remotely surprised to see Spurs' keeper on top as they're the best in the league in terms of "big chances" conceded this season with half the number we've conceded, despite their goalkeeper having faced more shots on target than ours' have. Any goalkeeper that faces a higher volume of shots but of lower total quality will fare well in these terms.

Chelsea meanwhile are second best in the league for BC conceded at again roughly half the amount as us, while "only" having faced nine fewer shots on target. And then Burnley next, who have also conceded fewer big chances than us despite their goalkeeper having faced more shots on target. In fact anyone who plays fantasy football might be aware that this is a consistent feature of Burnley's play, as they set up to allow a high volume of shots from distance that will inevitably see their goalkeeper clock up saves. Which has consistently allowed Burnley goalkeepers to perform well in FPL.

I'd sooner trust something like xG prevented, which at least adjusts for that somewhat. Though even then, De Gea's xG prevented is distorted by that one Spurs game, where we conceded approx. 2.5 goals more than we should have (which is typical of that sort of blow out and not reflective of De Gea's performance in that game).

Not saying De Gea would fare particularly well even with all that taken into account but even still, % of shots on target saved definitely isn't the way to assess his performance.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Look at the vision ddg has

Baily is completely covering the player and the ball. You can't do anything if the ball goes past the defender like it did with Baily

Thanks @GifLord .
There is some insane demand from De Gea going on in the caf for many weeks.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Why are people genuinely suggesting Barnes could only shoot into that one corner?

I assume everyone watches football right? Players can... You know... Cut across the ball?

 

[sullydnl]

Looking more at the stats, we're currently 12th for big chances conceded in the league this season, which is significantly worse than we've been in any season since 11/12 (where my stats stop). For example, last season we were second best.

In terms of xG, we're expected to concede a goal every 70min this season (9th worst), as opposed to every 95 minutes last season (2nd best).

If you're looking for a reason as to why De Gea is suddenly letting more chances past him, the quality of those chances being significantly better seems a pretty good reason.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Look at the vision ddg has

Baily is completely covering the player and the ball. You can't do anything if the ball goes past the defender like it did with Baily

That's a good angle...and it shows exactly what De Gea went wrong there. I know it's slo-mo but his hop-step and lack of footwork is what sets him up wrong. You can't go jumping in mid-air and expect to reach across either side of your goal. It's just poor positioning. It's typical of keepers like Pickford, who are interested in setting themselves up by throwing their weight behind the ball but not actually covering their angles.

I've said this many times in this and other goal keeping threads but the basics and fundamentals is that you cover your near post. It's where the high percentage of shots go and the easier/most opportune place attackers will shoot relative to where they are on the pitch.

 

[lex talionis]

David de Gea, 2 years ago. But he was exceptional back then. Now, he's very good, but not on the same level he once was.

The midfield and defenders put Barnes on his left foot and dared him to shoot because that's the second best option ( the first one being to risk a foul and dispossess him). Barnes is a complete wasteman when it comes to shooting, he just got it right today.

Sometimes, after a good flogging of the defenders for not closing the man down, you just have to acknowledge a great strike when it’s unsaveable, which this was.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Look at the vision ddg has

Baily is completely covering the player and the ball. You can't do anything if the ball goes past the defender like it did with Baily

A step or two to his right and he has perfect view. His positioning was poor. It's easy to see. Not sure why people are having a hard time admitting this...

 

[GifLord]

A step or two to his right and he has perfect view. His positioning was poor. It's easy to see. Not sure why people are having a hard time admitting this...

Are you seriously expecting the keeper to stand really close to the post in this situation ?

 

[arnie_ni]

Are you seriously expecting the keeper to stand really close to the post in this situation ?

If he goes any further right he has a tap in to the far post because he wasn't closed down

 

[Borys]

@sullydnl I was trying to find those stats but couldn't, could you please post them or send me a source? It would definitely give a better perspective of current situation.

The quality of chances is interesting, I don't quite understand how we can influence that though.

By the way, considering the fact we were 2nd best in terms of quality of chances conceded (now we're 12th), but also Martial and Greenwood had fantastic np:G-xG (and now they are on negative side) , it seems that either
A) we were really lucky last season
B) we are very unlucky this season. Which to be honest I believe is the case.

 

[Litch]

Goal wasn't purely at fault for the goal, but world class keeper saves it as you have to anticipate that it's the only place that balls going.......

 

[Feed Me]

De Gea needs phasing out. He’s become a completely average keeper. Wish he’d gone to Real Madrid years back.

 

[Sylar]

I dont blame him for the first one. I dont see anything wrong with the positioning. Obviously there are things that could be done to minimize / eliminate what leads to the goal.
Eg Bruno not losing the ball, McT or James going in closer, or Bailly moving closer to the ball and not turning sideways.

However I kinda get why McT did what he did. Barnes is not left footed so you wanna show him to the right side. McT also might have had an eye on Maddison with a pass which would take him out. DDG if hes more to the left and Barnes manages to whip it to DDGs left, the same people would criticise him for being bad positioning (lets be honest, most will say its bad positioning if a keeper doesnt get to the ball)

I think sometimes we have to just say, despite the initial mistake by Bruno, that was a terrific strike from Barnes on his weaker foot.

 

[Viral United]

If he goes any further right he has a tap in to the far post because he wasn't closed down

He was more in middle of post then right, one step to right and he could cover his near post.
Don't get me wrong that was great shot, but any good keeper should save his near post shot.
Even 3 years ago Ddg could easily saved that.

 

[unclefredo]

De Gea needs phasing out. He’s become a completely average keeper. Wish he’d gone to Real Madrid years back.

I think this is key. I still think he can do a job but I think its unquestionable that he is on the downward trajectory so we need to be really thinking about when to offload him. To me, I think it should be next summer given his contract and decline.

It was always going to be like this with him though, he's always relied heavily on his agility. The body just can't sustain that level into the 30s. Unlike outfield players, I'm not sure he has it in him to adapt his style. The reason VDS in particular lasted so long was his ability to organise his defence and rely on his strong fundamentals (he was also a couple of inches taller).

Regarding yesterday, I don't think you can attach much "blame" to him but sadly, he set the bar in saving Barnes' types of shots previously. Also, like other posters noticed, I believe he was feigning injury after his backpass incident as means of an excuse. Mentally, I think he knows his time is up at the top level. Its a real shame for him because he has been a good servant for us.

 

[Idxomer]

De Gea needs phasing out. He’s become a completely average keeper. Wish he’d gone to Real Madrid years back.

Why? He gave 3 undeniably great seasons after faxgate, one of them may be the best for a goalkeeper in PL history.

 

[Feed Me]

Why? He gave 3 undeniably great seasons after faxgate, one of them may be the best for a goalkeeper in PL history.

And what did all of that ultimately accrue to? We have ended up with a crap goalie on a massive contract.

 

[sullydnl]

@sullydnl I was trying to find those stats but couldn't, could you please post them or send me a source? It would definitely give a better perspective of current situation.

The quality of chances is interesting, I don't quite understand how we can influence that though.

By the way, considering the fact we were 2nd best in terms of quality of chances conceded (now we're 12th), but also Martial and Greenwood had fantastic np:G-xG (and now they are on negative side) , it seems that either
A) we were really lucky last season
B) we are very unlucky this season. Which to be honest I believe is the case.

I got the stats from a website I use for fantasy football, Fantasyfootballscout.co.uk, and they get stats directly from OPTA. It's paid membership though so not worth your while unless you play FPL, though if you do it's great.

What I would say is that this season isn't just at odds with last season, it's at odds with how we've defended for several years as we've never been *that* bad when it comes the the quality of chances we're conceding relative to the rest of the league. So my guess would be that it won't last across this season either and the stats will end up looking more typical over a longer run of games. It's not like there's been major change in our style of play or personnel, so it would be strange if we suddenly got a lot worse at defending for no apparently reason.

 

[Red & White]

I don’t think he was at fault, as such, for the goals yesterday but he does seem to let in shots he would have saved in the past. I remember for a few seasons you would just expect him to make some unbelievable saves that other keepers wouldn’t have a chance of saving.

I’ve actually found myself taken aback in games in this last year or so when a shot goes in and you just thought he’d pull off a great save as that‘s what he would normally do. Not necessarily blunders but not his usual level of shot stopping.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I got the stats from a website I use for fantasy football, Fantasyfootballscout.co.uk, and they get stats directly from OPTA. It's paid membership though so not worth your while unless you play FPL, though if you do it's great.

What I would say is that this season isn't just at odds with last season, it's at odds with how we've defended for several years as we've never been *that* bad when it comes the the quality of chances we're conceding relative to the rest of the league. So my guess would be that it won't last across this season either and the stats will end up looking more typical over a longer run of games. It's not like there's been major change in our style of play or personnel, so it would be strange if we suddenly got a lot worse at defending for no apparently reason.

If you look at the advanced goalkeeping shot-stopping metrics then DDG is among the worst in the league again. PSxG measures the quality of the shot rather than the quality of the chance conceded in terms of position. It’s a more accurate gauge of shot-stopping. His PSxG is 16.6 and he’s conceded 20. Measured for performance by 90 minutes it puts him 17th out of 20 in the league this season. Sandwiched between the much derided Aaron Ramsdale and Jordan Pickford.

 

[Borys]

I got the stats from a website I use for fantasy football, Fantasyfootballscout.co.uk, and they get stats directly from OPTA. It's paid membership though so not worth your while unless you play FPL, though if you do it's great.

What I would say is that this season isn't just at odds with last season, it's at odds with how we've defended for several years as we've never been *that* bad when it comes the the quality of chances we're conceding relative to the rest of the league. So my guess would be that it won't last across this season either and the stats will end up looking more typical over a longer run of games. It's not like there's been major change in our style of play or personnel, so it would be strange if we suddenly got a lot worse at defending for no apparently reason.

I agree, it seems unlikely we will continue conceding so many good chances and goals.

But regarding your previous post, it says we are 12th in terms of quality of chances conceded. It still doesn't explain how De Gea is 19th in terms of shot stopping. I'd expect him to be between 8-15 place if we considered xGA. And he's way behind the pack.

I think it will be difficult for him to get the usual 70-75% of shots stopped as he's currently on 53%.

 

[sullydnl]

I agree, it seems unlikely we will continue conceding so many good chances and goals.

But regarding your previous post, it says we are 12th in terms of quality of chances conceded. It still doesn't explain how De Gea is 19th in terms of shot stopping. I'd expect him to be between 8-15 place if we considered xGA. And he's way behind the pack.

I think it will be difficult for him to get the usual 70-75% of shots stopped as he's currently on 53%.

Yep, it may well be that De Gea is underperforming in terms on top of shot-stopping on top of our defence letting in better quality chances. I haven't seen the stats @Classical Mechanic mentioned above but taken at face-value they suggest he is. It'll be interesting to see what changes as the season goes on.

Plus we also have to see how many individual errors he makes over the season too, as it's not just shot-stopping that could let him down.