David Moyes West Ham Manager | Gone (pedantic sod Sarni)

[stevoc]

All of them needed replacing, and given the stature of the players we're talking about here, I doubt any manager would be capable of doing that within 2 windows.

No but i never suggested that he should have. Replacing all of them wasn't needed or practical in 2013, but at least replacing 1, 2 or 3 of them with United's resources was easily doable. Moyes didn't and thats on him no one else.

The club should have had players coming through to take their place.

Thats not the clubs job mate it's the managers, and at the time that was Moyes. United work with the manager being solely in charge of identifying and giving the go ahead to try to sign players.

Most fans moaned for years about the failure to invest on Fergies final years, whoever took over was faced with a massive task, and that was made worse by Gill going at the same time.

The money was there Moyes didn't spend it. Ferguson probably didn't spend as much as could have in his final years with an eye on allowing his successor to have more freedom to build their own team. Not only in terms of funds available but creating the landscape for them to buy their own players to replace older squad members.

I also suspect Gill probably could have been convinced to stay on another year if he and the club had knew Ferguson was retiring earlier than they did.

 

[manunited1919]

I think the opposite. Apart from Van Persie, Fergie didn't go out and spend a lot of money which meant there was more left for his successor.

The United job Moyes was given was a dream ticket. There wasn't another team in the league with the quality and depth at striker (RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Chicharito) or centre back (Vidic, Rio, Evans, Jones, Smalling) and he had 2 top class full backs in Rafael and Evra.

Carrick was Mr Reliable in midfield but he had carte blanche to change the midfield and style of play to whatever he wanted. Normally making changes to a championship winning team would attract criticism or fan unrest but no United fan would have argued with quality replacements in midfield.

He didn't inherit a team lacking in confidence like most managers do when taking over a top job. He had a squad of champions.

Picking Rio (who was finished) and Vidic in every game at the start of the season was stupidity. He had 3 very talented young central defenders. Pick his favourite, pair him with Vidic and make them first choice. Then once one is established replace Vidic with one of the other 2 or a new signing the following summer. But instead, he brought nobody through and lost all 3 experienced defenders the following summer.

He was appointed in May and couldn't get anyone apart from Fellaini in midfield. It was as if he'd never watched a single United match and had to spend months in training with the squad to know anything about the players.

The job he did at United was incredibly bad. It's hard to see how he could have done any worse if he tried.

As good as your post is, you have barely touched the surface. His first and most serious mistake was getting rid of all of SAFs staff. United were a well oiled machine, run by the assistants as much as SAF. He also over-trained RVP and ran him into the ground. He gave Rooney a ridiculous contract when it was clear SAF wanted to get rid.

His serious mistakes are too long to list. I honestly think I or any other United fan could have done a better job than this certified moron.

 

[Eyepopper]

No but i never suggested that he should have. Replacing all of them wasn't needed or practical in 2013, but at least replacing 1, 2 or 3 of them with United's resources was easily doable. Moyes didn't and thats on him no one else.

They were all gone by 2014 so I'd say it was needed, to at least have some replacements at the club earlier.

Thats not the clubs job mate it's the managers, and at the time that was Moyes. United work with the manager being solely in charge of identifying and giving the go ahead to try to sign players.

agreed, I'd put that mainly on Fergies reluctance to invest in his final years.

The money was there Moyes didn't spend it. Ferguson probably didn't spend as much as could have in his final years with an eye on allowing his successor to have more freedom to build their own team. Not only in terms of funds available but creating the landscape for them to buy their own players to replace older squad members.

I also suspect Gill probably could have been convinced to stay on another year if he and the club had knew Ferguson was retiring earlier than they did.

Basically, I'm not arguing that Moyes wasnt at fault, but that the idea that Utd were well positioned for a new manager to seamlessly take over, and that all thats been wrong since lies at Moyes feet, is nonsense.

 

[POF]

As good as your post is, you have barely touched the surface. His first and most serious mistake was getting rid of all of SAFs staff. United were a well oiled machine, run by the assistants as much as SAF. He also over-trained RVP and ran him into the ground. He gave Rooney a ridiculous contract when it was clear SAF wanted to get rid.

His serious mistakes are too long to list. I honestly think I or any other United fan could have done a better job than this certified moron.

The thing about Moyes was that he came across as someone who had won a competition to be United manager. LVG was a disaster but at least he came with a plan and his "philosophy". Moyes never gave any impression that he had any idea what he was doing.

I remember he said he played Vidic and Rio because it would help him settle in and all through the first season he kept mentioning that they were in transition. Yet, there was no obvious change in style, shape or personnel. The only transition was the club transitioning from a world class manager to a crap one.

There were no signs he had any idea how he wanted the team to play or what type of player he wanted to sign. He spent the whole summer chasing Fabregas and got Fellaini. He apparently turned down Ozil because he didn't need a number 10 and then bought Mata the following window.

My biggest fear with Moyes was that the actual transition was coming. If he did that badly with the same players who were champions, who knows how bad it would have been once he got his own players in.

 

[spwd]

@Sly , His comments about hoping the game was off gave his players the excuse to hide today.

What did he say?

 

[MThomas]

Evra, Rio, Vidic, Giggs etc getting old had nothing to do with Moyes.

Not having adequate replacements for those players lined up also cant really be laid at his feet.

I don't think anyone is blaming Moyes for the players getting older, I'm pretty sure it's a natural part of life and that the alternative is a bit shit

In terms of what Moyes should be blamed for in relation to those players, I'd start with how he failed to take advantage of their experience. Our midfield was a gaping arsehole, which pretty much allowed the opposition to take advantage of the fact that our defenders were hardly youngsters. I reckon that most decent managers would be able to make better use of those players, instead of exposing their weaknesses to the opposition.

I have no idea why some feel the need to defend what happened, Moyes was an absolute train wreck of a manager at United, he's subsequently failed at every job he's taken. I think it's safe to say that the same will happen at West Ham

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It seems sanity is somewhat restored in this thread, after the absurd fawning following the Chelsea game, the team which turned out to draw and lose against anyone during that period.

 

[manunited1919]

The thing about Moyes was that he came across as someone who had won a competition to be United manager. LVG was a disaster but at least he came with a plan and his "philosophy". Moyes never gave any impression that he had any idea what he was doing.

I remember he said he played Vidic and Rio because it would help him settle in and all through the first season he kept mentioning that they were in transition. Yet, there was no obvious change in style, shape or personnel. The only transition was the club transitioning from a world class manager to a crap one.

There were no signs he had any idea how he wanted the team to play or what type of player he wanted to sign. He spent the whole summer chasing Fabregas and got Fellaini. He apparently turned down Ozil because he didn't need a number 10 and then bought Mata the following window.

My biggest fear with Moyes was that the actual transition was coming. If he did that badly with the same players who were champions, who knows how bad it would have been once he got his own players in.

Thank God we finally got rid of him. But the damage he did to our club is still being corrected. I agree that LVG was a disaster, but the real damage came under Moyes. He managed to convince himself and many others that our whole team was useless and that wholesale changes to personnel were necessary if we were ever to win anything again. Despite being Champions! In less than a year he managed to destroy the winning mentality in the club, which had been instilled and ingrained for years and decades. Thay was the greatest damage.

 

[POF]

Thank God we finally got rid of him. But the damage he did to our club is still being corrected. I agree that LVG was a disaster, but the real damage came under Moyes. He managed to convince himself and many others that our whole team was useless and that wholesale changes to personnel were necessary if we were ever to win anything again. Despite being Champions! In less than a year he managed to destroy the winning mentality in the club, which had been instilled and ingrained for years and decades. Thay was the greatest damage.

I agree completely with this. The winning mentality was Fergie's legacy. It was why the club won titles ahead of clubs with "more talented squads". It was incredible how quickly that fell apart under Moyes and how hard it is to get it back.

 

[manunited1919]

I agree completely with this. The winning mentality was Fergie's legacy. It was why the club won titles ahead of clubs with "more talented squads". It was incredible how quickly that fell apart under Moyes and how hard it is to get it back.

I believe Mourinho is getting it done, though it is a hard road back to the top. It’s not easy, which is why JM and this team deserve our full support.

 

[Dr Baltar]

Their next two games are massive. Really rough run in after that. Doubt he's getting the Madrid job in the summer

 

[M Bison]

It seems sanity is somewhat restored in this thread, after the absurd fawning following the Chelsea game, the team which turned out to draw and lose against anyone during that period.

What do you mean?

 

[Ish]

Oh how quickly people forget his innovative use of ipads.

Not to mention his fabled 'transfer bunker' where he gathered information and analyzed every potential target in detail...and ended up signing Fellaini for £5m more than his release clause.

You know how bad it was - the Scousers actually loved our manager Absolute shambles and so far out of his depth, it wasn’t even funny. Must be ranked up their as one of the worst footballing/business decisions of recent times.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This man managed our club. Wow.

 

[Ish]

This man managed our club. Wow.

Aye. I was actually “optimistic” when we appointed him

Bought into the “Scottishness” and the romanticism of it all. You know....another Scot, cut from the same cloth. Had my reservations but will admit, I wasn’t against the appointment (even though he was nowhere near my first choice).

 

[Fortitude]

Taking West Ham down would be the most Manchester United thing he's done. #1992 #1995

*Relegates them and then reveals a Manchester United '95 replica jersey, the same one we wore on that fated day, and bellows: "that's for '95 ye wee cnuts ye!" down the mic before laughing maniacally and scampering off towards the tunnel only to accost a broadcasting camera and shout: "Woodward, consider ma debt, repaid!".

Imagine the scenes!

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

What do you mean?

Go back 10 pages or so.

It was bonkers. He won a couple of matches and apparently we sacked him way too prematurely . Those people are either WUMs or have the memory of a goldfish.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Actually feel for him.

He's done a decent job there.

West Ham are a joke of a club though.

He really hasn't. I mean, I realise this post is a month old but even so. WHU have a decent squad there, that Moyes managed a couple of results wasn't "doing a decent job", it was what we could have expected from the majority of managers taking over there.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He would make the Scottish league competitive again

 

[Robbie Boy]

Aye. I was actually “optimistic” when we appointed him

Bought into the “Scottishness” and the romanticism of it all. You know....another Scot, cut from the same cloth. Had my reservations but will admit, I wasn’t against the appointment (even though he was nowhere near my first choice).

Aye, I never really rated him or thought he came across particularly well, but Fergie picked him so I was hoping he would prove me wrong. But by god was he way worse than I expected despite my low expectations.

 

[Ish]

Aye, I never really rated him or thought he came across particularly well, but Fergie picked him so I was hoping he would prove me wrong. But by god was he way worse than I expected despite my low expectations.

So true

 

[stevoc]

They were all gone by 2014 so I'd say it was needed, to at least have some replacements at the club earlier.

Well exactly and that was Moyes job between 2013 and 2014 and he failed.

agreed, I'd put that mainly on Fergies reluctance to invest in his final years.

Well yeah that was a big part of it, but as i said i think Ferguson didn't want to build the team too much in that period with an eye on giving his successor more freedom.

There was even a rumour after the sacking about a conversation between Moyes & Ferguson where Moyes said to SAF. ''You didn't tell me this team needed so much work'' to which Ferguson supposedly replied ''What did you want me to do spend the money and build your team for you?''. Probably bullshit but also probably not too far from what both men actually thought.

Basically, I'm not arguing that Moyes wasnt at fault, but that the idea that Utd were well positioned for a new manager to seamlessly take over, and that all thats been wrong since lies at Moyes feet, is nonsense.

I think we largely agree on most of this mate. Yes taking the United job in 2013 was not the easiest task, but at the same time it was far from the hardest either and no where near the impossible task some like to make it out to have been. Taking over a championship winning side and having access to the resources of one of the worlds richest clubs is probably 99% of coaches dream job.

And of course everything that's happened since isn't Moyes fault but he played a not inconsiderable part in it. Some people (not necessarily you) try to give him to much of a pass in my opinion. And try to paint him as some sort of tragic victim of circumstance who couldn't have possibly changed anything that happened.

 

[stevoc]

It seems sanity is somewhat restored in this thread, after the absurd fawning following the Chelsea game, the team which turned out to draw and lose against anyone during that period.

Yeah a few jumped the gun a bit too soon with their giddy gloating. He's actually made them worse, Bilic had a 35% win ratio this season before he got sacked. Moyes is currently at about 27% win ratio.

 

[Loon]

*Relegates them and then reveals a Manchester United '95 replica jersey, the same one we wore on that fated day, and bellows: "that's for '95 ye wee cnuts ye!" down the mic before laughing maniacally and scampering off towards the tunnel only to accost a broadcasting camera and shout: "Woodward, consider ma debt, repaid!".

Imagine the scenes!

 

[Badunk]

He did the usual "the players must take responsibility" speech after the Swansea game. Already preparing the ground for a relegation scrap where none of it is his fault.

 

[tenpoless]

It's crazy how He still thinks He's all that - it's always the players and the club's responsibility and not his.

I still remember him looking as clueless as Mr. Bean when He lost his trousers in a toilet, during the team's first few defeats at Old Trafford. I almost felt sorry for him because He looked as if He was a flip-flop wearing gardener being put on a stage as a makeshift Ballet dancer. United were too big for him and way out of his league.

But nope, I don't feel sorry anymore. He's an ignorant person. He will never get better if He doesn't see him as a big part of his own problems. He can keep switching and getting jobs from low-mid table clubs, but for how long?

 

[Bojan11]

They are fecked. This was a must win game for them.

They play four of the top six.

 

[Zoo]

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[Kag]

Can't think of a club I'd like to see go down more.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Can't think of a club I'd like to see go down more.

And with Moyes in charge as well, it would be perfection.

 

[el3mel]

And with Moyes in charge as well, it would be perfection.

Was a joy seeing him leading Sunderland down last season.

Seems he gets all the team that we hate. Hopefully repeat it with WHU this season.

He started well but the honeymoon is over and they're back to being trash again.

 

[sullydnl]

Can't think of a club I'd like to see go down more.

This. Spiteful shower of morons.

 

[Jim Beam]

He would make the Scottish league competitive again

 

[FujiVice]

A club so shit even David Moyes is surprisingly low on their list of problems. Hope they feck off.

 

[Full bodied red]

Why wait until the end of the season ?

Moyes is an absolute disaster - never won a thing at Everton; fired from OT and Real Sociedad ; and even kicked out at Sunderland.

You reap what you sow....

 

[prateik]

West Ham are the disaster. Not Moyes. Same with Sunderland.

They will just about stay up.. job done.

I dont care about him.. but West Ham have been shit for a while now. They were worse before Moyes took over.

 

[Zoo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[K2K]

*Relegates them and then reveals a Manchester United '95 replica jersey, the same one we wore on that fated day, and bellows: "that's for '95 ye wee cnuts ye!" down the mic before laughing maniacally and scampering off towards the tunnel only to accost a broadcasting camera and shout: "Woodward, consider ma debt, repaid!".

Imagine the scenes!

 

[NinjaFletch]

Awful club, awful fans, awful owners, awful team, awful stadium, awful manager.

Just close the whole lot down. No one will miss them.

 

[UpWithRivers]

I don't get the hate for Moyes. Yes he was a disaster for us. But talk about a job where you are almost guaranteed to fail. Followed by Real Sociadad....guaranteed to fail. Sunderland.... Completely toxic club. Ask any one of their previous and current manager.
And then takes over at a failing west ham club. Yes an idiot but not for the reasons people think. He is an idiot for choosing the worst jobs out there.