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Mindhunter

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The way people might laugh at someone like Lingard’s performance but still has this hope for Van De Beek is shocking but not surprising.
We’ll Lingard isn’t exotic and posts foolish Instagram stories.
 

Bobski

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I realize that, but Fred is getting minutes instead and that's astonishing IMO.
Fred brings energy, aggression and good mobility and pace. Also has a greater passing range than Donny, erratic as it may be.

What exactly, based on his performances in England are the great qualities that Donny brings to a team and how do they make a team more likely to win matches?
 

horsechoker

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Fred brings energy, aggression and good mobility and pace. Also has a greater passing range than Donny, erratic as it may be.

What exactly, based on his performances in England are the great qualities that Donny brings to a team and how do they make a team more likely to win matches?
Good link up play and movement in and around the box. Not a bad finisher either.

Those are his strengths, that's it. The further he is from the box the worse he looks. Unless he plays in a system where those qualities are utilised, he's quite average.
 

Pexbo

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the thing is just because a manager used you at his last club, doesn't mean much as he now has more resources and is in a completely idfferent league
He’s signed two former players to slot into the side as they know his system.

The one who has spent 2 years saying he’s good enough and his supporters describing him as a system player is still on the bench.

It says volumes
 

Bobski

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Good link up play and movement in and around the box. Not a bad finisher either.

Those are his strengths, that's it. The further he is from the box the worse he looks. Unless he plays in a system where those qualities are utilised, he's quite average.
Agree, at best he is a back up to Bruno but if he plays that role it has to be with Eriksen in midfield to be the creative force, because has no real creativity in his game. Good at bouncing passes back to the player who gave it to him and taking up clever positions in the box, decent enough in the press as well to be fair.

The thing is if Bruno is out for any length of time you wouldn't want Donny starting week in week out, just too limited.
 

Kostov

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Fred brings energy, aggression and good mobility and pace. Also has a greater passing range than Donny, erratic as it may be.

What exactly, based on his performances in England are the great qualities that Donny brings to a team and how do they make a team more likely to win matches?
Fred brings running and harassing opposition footballers I'll give your that. He is useful in this latest limited sub role since we have 5 subs a game. Greater passing range? I disagree, Fred is an appalling passer on his own self, DVB has shown nothing better on the other hand in the same regard.

That second paragraph was my point exactly, he has shown absolutely nothing in a the 1.5 seasons here, and he continues to struggle to impose himself even with his former manager here. The answer for the second paragraph in regards to Fred, IMO is also the same, just the sample size is 4 years and counting. I just hope we don't make the same mistake with DVB that we are making with Fred right now. That being, if this season DVB doesn't demonstrate anything of the note, he should be gone, Fred is 2 years too late for that.
 

Bobski

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Fred brings running and harassing opposition footballers I'll give your that. He is useful in this latest limited sub role since we have 5 subs a game. Greater passing range? I disagree, Fred is an appalling passer on his own self, DVB has shown nothing better on the other hand in the same regard.

That second paragraph was my point exactly, he has shown absolutely nothing in a the 1.5 seasons here, and he continues to struggle to impose himself even with his former manager here. The answer for the second paragraph in regards to Fred, IMO is also the same, just the sample size is 4 years and counting. I just hope we don't make the same mistake with DVB that we are making with Fred right now. That being, if this season DVB doesn't demonstrate anything of the note, he should be gone, Fred is 2 years too late for that.
I don't think Fred is an appalling passer but he is very erratic, can play some beauties then a string of shockers. Donny on the other hand has shown very little there other than simple 5 yard passes back to the guy who played it to him, doesn't seem to be able to strike the ball over distance, very unambitious passing range all in all. Even with that his pass completion percentage hovers around 84/85% for Utd, which is no better than Fred or McT.
 

Kostov

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I don't think Fred is an appalling passer but he is very erratic, can play some beauties then a string of shockers. Donny on the other hand has shown very little there other than simple 5 yard passes back to the guy who played it to him, doesn't seem to be able to strike the ball over distance, very unambitious passing range all in all. Even with that his pass completion percentage hovers around 84/85% for Utd, which is no better than Fred or McT.
Pass completion is not the only measurement of quality of passing IMO. Fred IMO is an appalling one, so often he brings the player receiving the pass in an awkward situation or passes behind him. DVB on the other hand is a cleaner passer, more cultured but the range of passing is similarly short and safe. Fred has hit a couple of top passes in a period of 4 fecking years and 10 times more attempts. I think if we are being realistic, his passing is bottom level PL and I am not even kidding.

Donny is mostly the victim of his own self, his own supposed versatility, I personally liked him when he was used deeper on couple of occasions last season. Tackled aggressively and run as much as anyone. He also has never had the luxury of stringing games together to maybe settle down. Both Fred and McT have had that luxury even when they were absolute dogshit. Unfortunately for Donny, it seems that that time has passed, Eriksen is sure starter and McT and Casemiro are sure starters for now.
 

McGrathsipan

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He’s signed two former players to slot into the side as they know his system.

The one who has spent 2 years saying he’s good enough and his supporters describing him as a system player is still on the bench.

It says volumes
Turning out to be the most pointless signing ever isn't he.
He is a very expensive ornament.
 

mu4c_20le

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He’s signed two former players to slot into the side as they know his system.

The one who has spent 2 years saying he’s good enough and his supporters describing him as a system player is still on the bench.

It says volumes
The system is still in it's infancy, it's barely been five weeks since the league started. Once we become more of a well oiled machine with obvious patterns of play, then it will be time to introduce the Donny.

Then we will see the best of him again. I can see him carrying us in Europe.
 

Pexbo

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The system is still in it's infancy, it's barely been five weeks since the league started. Once we become more of a well oiled machine with obvious patterns of play, then it will be time to introduce the Donny.

Then we will see the best of him again. I can see him carrying us in Europe.
Please don’t forgot to use white text
 

Lay

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The system is still in it's infancy, it's barely been five weeks since the league started. Once we become more of a well oiled machine with obvious patterns of play, then it will be time to introduce the Donny.

Then we will see the best of him again. I can see him carrying us in Europe.
Unless he’s spending his free time training to become a pilot, I don’t think he’s carrying us anywhere
 

Grande

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Fred brings running and harassing opposition footballers I'll give your that. He is useful in this latest limited sub role since we have 5 subs a game. Greater passing range? I disagree, Fred is an appalling passer on his own self, DVB has shown nothing better on the other hand in the same regard.

That second paragraph was my point exactly, he has shown absolutely nothing in a the 1.5 seasons here, and he continues to struggle to impose himself even with his former manager here. The answer for the second paragraph in regards to Fred, IMO is also the same, just the sample size is 4 years and counting. I just hope we don't make the same mistake with DVB that we are making with Fred right now. That being, if this season DVB doesn't demonstrate anything of the note, he should be gone, Fred is 2 years too late for that.
I agree with others about Fred, you are heavily underestimating him in my view. Fred is a machine when it comes to harassung opponents, and has a fantastic stamina. He was a standout player under Rangnik for this reason alone.

He is also very technically sound, and is a very good, but erratic short to medium range passer. What is special with him is he can strike quick medium range passes accurately - most of the time. This is very valuable in transitions, which meant that when transition play worked under Solskjær, he was often a very valuable player.

On the downside, his erraticness, seems to me to do with him being a very instinctive player and not very mentally disciplined. Whenever our play has been less organized, or going through, Fred has had a high amount of ridiculous misplaced passes, shocking ball losses and positional glitches. This was apparent when he came under Mourinho, and the few times when Solskjær was changing or attemting to change tactical style, as well as under Rangnik (passing play) and recently under Ten Hag.

I’m not sure wether Ten Hag will stick with him, because Fred can’t be deep 6, and he’s too indisciplined to protect a deep lying playmaker like Eriksen or De Jong, and he’s not advanced enough in his understanding of play to play as a 10 (unlike Van de Beek). I think he can be a brilliant alternative when we play with Casemiro as a six and Bruno as an 8/10, when Eriksen needs rest or to shore up games. But Ten Hag needs to get to the point were he can trust him first, which will be interesting to see if he does.

Regarding Van de Beek, I think Ten Hag said something along the lines of his confidence being central to his way of playing, and him being a systems player. It seems Ten Hag trusts Fred more at this point, but time will show.
 

Stacks

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Pass completion is not the only measurement of quality of passing IMO. Fred IMO is an appalling one, so often he brings the player receiving the pass in an awkward situation or passes behind him. DVB on the other hand is a cleaner passer, more cultured but the range of passing is similarly short and safe. Fred has hit a couple of top passes in a period of 4 fecking years and 10 times more attempts. I think if we are being realistic, his passing is bottom level PL and I am not even kidding.

Donny is mostly the victim of his own self, his own supposed versatility, I personally liked him when he was used deeper on couple of occasions last season. Tackled aggressively and run as much as anyone. He also has never had the luxury of stringing games together to maybe settle down. Both Fred and McT have had that luxury even when they were absolute dogshit. Unfortunately for Donny, it seems that that time has passed, Eriksen is sure starter and McT and Casemiro are sure starters for now.
They still offer more than him when shit. Fred harrases opposition and Mctominay is a physical beast. Donny is a ghost. He showed virtually nothing in each apperance. Its like in boxing, you have to WIN the title from the champion as opposed to just do the same as them in the fight.
The system is still in it's infancy, it's barely been five weeks since the league started. Once we become more of a well oiled machine with obvious patterns of play, then it will be time to introduce the Donny.

Then we will see the best of him again. I can see him carrying us in Europe.
Have you seen the waterboy?
 

Ekeke

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If he isnt by the end of this season at least coming off the bench after an hour and having impressive, almost always suggestive of a starting place performances then he absolutely needs to be sold in the summer. He has everything here now, I've seen enough good football from him at times and specific games to think he can still do it but time is running out fast. He has the manager that knows how to use him, who wants to play a similar style to how he's used to and with better players around him than the past couple of seasons. If he can't do it by the end of this season then he simply hasnt shown enough in training and he's lost what he had previously.
 

Stacks

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If he isnt by the end of this season at least coming off the bench after an hour and having impressive, almost always suggestive of a starting place performances then he absolutely needs to be sold in the summer. He has everything here now, I've seen enough good football from him at times and specific games to think he can still do it but time is running out fast. He has the manager that knows how to use him, who wants to play a similar style to how he's used to and with better players around him than the past couple of seasons. If he can't do it by the end of this season then he simply hasnt shown enough in training and he's lost what he had previously.
30 mins of this in his United career. what will it take for you to conclude that he was never good enough?
 

Ekeke

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30 mins of this in his United career. what will it take for you to conclude that he was never good enough?
Way more. Several matches where he's come in and played well in CM.

The problem is the next 1 or 2 matches he started in CM he was nowhere near as good. He couldnt keep it up so even against Fred and McTom you could argue that he didnt deserve to be in the team, and that was a low bar.

I've seen him play better than Eriksen for us other than the Arsenal match which he took by the scruff of the neck and took over.
 

Champ

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Way more. Several matches where he's come in and played well in CM.

The problem is the next 1 or 2 matches he started in CM he was nowhere near as good. He couldnt keep it up so even against Fred and McTom you could argue that he didnt deserve to be in the team, and that was a low bar.

I've seen him play better than Eriksen for us other than the Arsenal match which he took by the scruff of the neck and took over.
The bolded quote is highly debatable.

Fleeting moments here and there but never consistently good throughout even sub appearances.
 

MadDogg

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The bolded quote is highly debatable.

Fleeting moments here and there but never consistently good throughout even sub appearances.
He had a decent few matches at the end of 20/21 and beginning of 21/22. Nothing amazing, but there were signs of improvement with him looking more aggressive both on and off the ball and actually trying to make things happen. With both Fred and Scott starting last season terribly it was the one time where I do feel VDB was treated a bit unfairly and probably should have had more opportunities. Perhaps he could have built on that improvement, perhaps he wouldn't, but he never really got the chance. He got the odd match here and there mostly in a second string side and often in different positions.

Throughout the rest of his time here he hasn't come close to deserving a place though.
 

little.triangles

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Has he started three league games in a row? I think not.

Two? I can't recall the matches if he did.

If McT is looking a different player now almost overnight, then I'm willing to give VdB another chance. Either way this season will settle the matter one way or another.
 

CarbonStoolBites

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If he isnt by the end of this season at least coming off the bench after an hour and having impressive, almost always suggestive of a starting place performances then he absolutely needs to be sold in the summer. He has everything here now, I've seen enough good football from him at times and specific games to think he can still do it but time is running out fast. He has the manager that knows how to use him, who wants to play a similar style to how he's used to and with better players around him than the past couple of seasons. If he can't do it by the end of this season then he simply hasnt shown enough in training and he's lost what he had previously.
All 2 minutes of it?
 

Telsim

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Bloody hell, i sometimes forget that he is our player
Same. I just keep forgetting he exists in our squad. Him, AWB, and Diallo sum up our transfer "strategy" over the last decade. Over a €100M for the three of them. All pointless.
 

Bebestation

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It’s weird how certain players can get so much hate - yet some are given a totally free ride.
 

Donut

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It’s weird how certain players can get so much hate - yet some are given a totally free ride.
He was given so much leeway for a veeery long time, people are just fed up, he contributes nothing and he cost a lot.
 

Andycoleno9

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It’s weird how certain players can get so much hate - yet some are given a totally free ride.
I don't think that he is hated by anyone. Simply because nobody basically saw him play. :)
Well me at least. Some odd games on no10 position and that is it. I hope that he will get run of games on no8 position before we sell him.
 

Abraxas

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As if he's hated. He's debated, but that's an entirely different thing. He's rarely shown any personality on the pitch that would give cause for anyone to have such strong feeling about him that would be personal. The sentiment is only towards his merit as a United footballer. That's kind of the point, he just meanders about the pitch doing who knows what. Even ETH seems disinterested.
 

Andersonson

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He almost cost the same as Fred (?) And is nowhere near his level. Yet he gets a free pass by many while Fred is constantly bashed.

" All he needs is a system "
 

Gazza

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It’s weird how certain players can get so much hate - yet some are given a totally free ride.
It's very noticeable how pretty much every post here that refers to "hate" towards a player is never directly quoting a specific poster, it's often just some tired catch-all statement to avoid addressing specific points, maybe.
 

Posh Red

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If he is capable of offering anything in midfield over and above his competition then there is no better manager to give him the chance. If he’s not getting chances then that says it all for him unfortunately. It’s a shame as I thought there was a good player in there.
 
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