It's not just being polite. It's to avoid drama in the dressing room and giving our weak players another excuse out to not turn up. Also the guy will be coaching for his job so probability is he will try hard. Also if we sack him and just let an interim do the job chances are nothing will change or we get another Ole situation. I do agree with you though that if we're just considering % of winning the final it will probably increase if we hire a different (decent ) manager but we do have to look beyond that one match.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
The dressing room must be a very strange place what with most of the press saying that all but 4 of our players are up for sale.
Whatever mistakes ETH has made, he has had a load of difficult situations to deal with
Whatever mistakes ETH has made, he has had a load of difficult situations to deal with
It’s a risk you don’t need to take, on someone who you didn’t appoint and who is going to probably lead us to worst ever Premier League finish.
We are also seeing briefings about the squad being dismantled so if true they want to start from scratch. Who in their right mind would want to start all over again with a manager who is on the verge of the sack.
You're testing my memory now, I can't remember who was at fault for each goal etc. But my point was just that I think he can't be claimed as one of the best in the league when we took some big losses. Don't get me wrong I think he was good, very good by what we were used to. I'd just struggle to put him in that sort of bracket given some of the results.
I think if you're talking ball playing defenders, he's among the best.
I'll give him that. The other top clubs, and the likes of Newcastle, Brighton etc have good ball playing defenders though. They just don't get mentioned as much because, in terms of the likes of City, Arsenal, it's just the norm for them.
You look at John Stones, for example, who isn't even City's best CB, and he's a much better player than Martinez.
I think he is their best CB. Outstanding player.
I get the point about drama, but there is no excuse under no circumstances for players not to turn up for a final. No matter who manages them.
Fair enough, I think Dias is probably generally considered their best. Stones is extremely good though, Pep has took him up many levels. But I'd even argue that the likes of Akanji and Ake are as good as Martinez, or better. More athletic, physical and still excellent on the ball.
Ake and Akanji are better athletes but in terms of ability I don't think they are as good. They are more of a complete package though granted.
The question is would he get into the City team? I think he would honestly. Either as the LCB or the LB.
Pep seems to really value speed,size and strength though. With his decision to basically play 4 CB's but very mobile and good on the ball.
I would hope that this is a lie.
It's by far the least 'disruptive' option and I see the logic even though I don't agree.
Reads to me he wont be sacked until after the final
Well you can probably read it two ways:
1. They will not make a decision as to whether or not to sack him until after the final - I would hope that this is a lie.
2. They will not bring the axe down until after the final - I can live with this.
Decision has been made and would be incredibly hard to overturn at this stage IMO.
Yeah if only you watched our fa cup final last year. We had a homegrown player who pulled out of challenges and headers in a match against our local rivals going for a treble.
I think they have a new contract prepared but prefer to wait for the FA Cup final as the message will come across better after the game. If we win, it will be seen as a reward for his outstanding performance and achievement, if we lose it will be a voice of confidence, backed by indication that we are willing to work with him to improve the squad, coaching staff and address any other issues that have prevented him from showing his true potential. Win-win for them.
That's true and embarassing. But for me that's not about the manager.
Liandro is overrated by Unites fans in general. A good player when fit and one who seems to have the right attitude. An asset.
Argentines play with their hearts on their sleeves. We took to Heinze and Rojo immediately also. There are areas of his game that can be exploited though. He needs a CB with certain traits to minimise his lack of height and average speed.
In modern football, your CBs need to be tall, athletic and be an 8/10 on the ball at worst. For an elite team anyway.
van Dijk, Matip and Konaté are all 6ft 4" or taller. Quansah is 6ft 3".
Arsenal have the best CB pairing in the league. Saliba is 6ft 4" and Gabriel is 6ft 3"
van de Ven is 6ft 4" and Romero is 6ft 1".
Argentines play with their hearts on their sleeves. We took to Heinze and Rojo immediately also. There are areas of his game that can be exploited though. He needs a CB with certain traits to minimise his lack of height and average speed.
In modern football, your CBs need to be tall, athletic and be an 8/10 on the ball at worst. For an elite team anyway.
van Dijk, Matip and Konaté are all 6ft 4" or taller. Quansah is 6ft 3".
Arsenal have the best CB pairing in the league. Saliba is 6ft 4" and Gabriel is 6ft 3"
van de Ven is 6ft 4" and Romero is 6ft 1".
If the article about pretty much the entire squad being up for sale is true then ETH is gone. No way in gods earth that a manager who has brought in players he specifically wanted (and has been told they’re now part of a fire sale ) would go for that. He is clearly part of that fire sale in the same way the players are and INEOS are looking for as clean a slate as possible.
Unless he's happy enough to throw everyone under the bus to avoid the chop himself.
He doesn't even seem to like/trust/prefer a few of his own signings.
I think he'd get games there for sure as Pep does seem to rotate a bit and they get their share of injuries, but Gvardiol as a CB at LB does a really good job too. His ability in carrying the ball is better than Martinez, in my opinion. Again, a better athlete, quicker (which helps when he does move forward with the ball).
The one thing I would say though is that it is very possible Pep would make Martinez a better player than he is here. So a Pep coached Martinez might be an even better proposition.
How about a friendly wager he won't start next season as United's manager even if he wins FA Cup .
Martinez was injured for so long that some people forgot how good he actually is and rolled back to the "he is too short" narrative from before, they went full Carragher mode.
Yeah, it's weird. Now I'm all for shitting on our own players, it's one of my favorite pastimes recently, but targeting Martinez I don't get at all.
Yes, he is short, and he's not fast, but his greatest asset is his intelligence, which is why he hardly ever finds himself in positions where his weaknesses can be exploited.
Being 5ft 8" as a CB is an issue. There's no getting around that. It can be minimised somewhat by having a tall CB partner who is good aerially. He's generally had that in the form of Varane or Maguire.
There were plenty of games last season in which Lisandro and the defence were brutally exposed.
If anything... t's the opposite. The longer someone is out of action, the better they were. People couldn't wait for Casemiro to come back.
Or for retired players... the longer they are retired, the better they were in their own minds. Kenny Smith in The NBA.
We're a bit like Liverpool fans who think van Dijk can do no wrong.
How many times in reality was it actually an issue though?Being 5ft 8" as a CB is an issue. There's no getting around that. It can be minimised somewhat by having a tall CB partner who is good aerially. He's generally had that in the form of Varane or Maguire.
There were plenty of games last season in which Lisandro and the defence were brutally exposed.
If anything... t's the opposite. The longer someone is out of action, the better they were. People couldn't wait for Casemiro to come back.
Or for retired players... the longer they are retired, the better they were in their own minds. Kenny Smith in The NBA.
We're a bit like Liverpool fans who think van Dijk can do no wrong.
Revisionism at its finest.
Happy to do it.
No one can be surprised. You're at United, you've failed again to reach the top 4, the consequences of that is that you'll most likely lose your job at this level if it's clear you've not performed to the level that's expected. I'm sure some will feel it's unfair and they've not been helped by the situation but at the end of the day, anyone with that attitude shouldn't be at the club anyway. They're the main difference makers on the pitch.
So what should be amount or modalities of the wager you can decide .
Don't think this is implausible.
You should push that bet out mate. @Sarni has convinced himself that ETH will still be here in 2034, even if there's a relegation in the mix.
Not only about the manager but he does play a role. That's why the new manager must not care about social media and commercial interests. The coach must be free to coach his way and have the structure around him support that.
20 GBP paid to a charity of choice (picked by the winner, paid by the loser)?
Not 2034 but he's going to be untouchable for a while.
Yes based on what McT does in a game. As I said he keeps the ball better these days and creates by his movement.
What is wrong with complementing a player who is doing well?
Sit down with Wilcox, but to d2
ETH has excuses but he also has had ample opportunity to react or impress the powers that be.
If somehow you could twist it into a positive losing the final that is, cos we sure as hell aren't winning vs City, it will be a routine win for them.
There is still history, track record and evidence all pointing to him leaving as well as multiple insiders saying he will leave.
1. No takeover invests almost 2bln, replaces all of the backroom executives and then goes forward with a coach they didnt choose. No high profile ownership has done this, it would be stupid and a waste of time and money.
2. They have replaced everyone around him, the technical director, the CEO the recruitment dept and according to the latest reports all but 3 players, 1 of which was his signing. What stretch of logic leads to him not also being replaced?
3. He is into his last year of contract and has under-performed to the degree that his wages will be cut which in itself is proof and reason to sack but also means his payout is almost a tax write off.
Those are just three logical, quantifiable reasons why he wont be here without going into his specific failings any singular one would be enough justification to sack him and start from fresh.
Its only romantic notions of a turnaround or the idea, the non-proven heady fantasy that ETH is actually a world class coach suffering due to circumstances that people have to give any justification to keeping him.
He is not staying, I can tell you, but its staring you straight in the face.
No chance. This is pure fantasy, the real world does not work like that.
ETH has excuses but he also has had ample opportunity to react or impress the powers that be.
If somehow you could twist it into a positive losing the final that is, cos we sure as hell aren't winning vs City, it will be a routine win for them.
There is still history, track record and evidence all pointing to him leaving as well as multiple insiders saying he will leave.
1. No takeover invests almost 2bln, replaces all of the backroom executives and then goes forward with a coach they didnt choose. No high profile ownership has done this, it would be stupid and a waste of time and money.
2. They have replaced everyone around him, the technical director, the CEO the recruitment dept and according to the latest reports all but 3 players, 1 of which was his signing. What stretch of logic leads to him not also being replaced?
3. He is into his last year of contract and has under-performed to the degree that his wages will be cut which in itself is proof and reason to sack but also means his payout is almost a tax write off.
Those are just three logical, quantifiable reasons why he wont be here without going into his specific failings any singular one would be enough justification to sack him and start from fresh.
Its only romantic notions of a turnaround or the idea, the non-proven heady fantasy that ETH is actually a world class coach suffering due to circumstances that people have to give any justification to keeping him.
He is not staying, I can tell you, but its staring you straight in the face.
Could Martinez, if fit, replace Casemiro? Just a genuine thought. Played there 15 times for Ajax, scored a couple of goals too.
Understand we’re light at CB as it is, but still.
Understand we’re light at CB as it is, but still.