Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[OverratedOpinion]

Perhaps 2018-2022 trophyless period under Ole made us desperate for days like today was. Of course it shouldn't make us forget we finished 8th with -1 GD.

And the run under Ten Hag has made me desperate for looking like the better team on the pitch more weeks than we don't. Which we did for 2 and a half years under Ole.

Maybe we will find someone who can give us the best of both worlds eventually.

 

[Nas-JR]

It's not an easy call for sure. 2 trophies and 3 domestic finals in 2 seasons is something we'd taken without any doubt back in 2022 when we were 5 years without a trophy and desperate. Then there were all the injuries and particularly in defence and today with Martinez and Varane back showed how much ten Hag has missed them.

Potential sacking could be regarded as harsh. But same would've been said for sacking of Mourinho if it happened in summer of 2018 or Ole in 2021 after EL final.

Think LvG did the worst job. 2014/15 we had no Europe to play and finished 4th which was basically good enough but nothing more than that though we spent a lot in summer of 2014. Then 2015/16 was the one where all the big sides were in some kind of transition and we finished 5th behind City because of bad GD. I'm grateful for Fa Cup win as 1st trophy post-Fergie but our route to it wasn't that difficult (like it was this year).

I'd agree that that lvg season was probably the worst given that the league was far less competitive. Although, I actually think he probably laid the best foundation for transition to a dominant team. I still think the single most moronic decision made by the club was to get in mourinho directly after lvg has completely overhauled the squad. The effects of that decision are still felt to this day as it left a mess of a squad for years!

Re: your initial point, if we had the same injury record as city or arsenal this year, we'd be top four in my opinion. Take away rodri and saliba from these two teams respectively all season and they'd struggle a hell of s lot more. Any rational thinker would realise the impact of our injuries on our final league position

I'm personally invested enough to allow a final year. If however ineos want a new manager - sport director dynamic that means the former cedes a lot more veto power and ten hag says no, then yeah he obviously needs to go.

 

[Chairman Steve]

For every good game we’ve had this season, there’s been like half dozen bad games to counter it.

For the heroic performance in the FA Cup Final, we got all our embarrassing performances in the Champions League group stage

For our good home win against West Ham, we got bad home defeats to Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Fulham and Arsenal

 

[Hoof the ball]

This season was an anomaly for injuries, not only in quantity, but also in terms of longevity. Whilst other terms might have numerically matched our injury record, none matched the length of games missed as a result of them.

For this reason, the drop from 3rd to 8th must factor in the above as a major cause. It must, and for that reason, along with the instability of ownership decisions looming overhead, EtH perhaps ought to be afforded the chance to develop the squad he's building with the right infrastructure behind him.

I fear that a hasty sack could come back to impact us.

 

[Zumbi]

Two cups in two years. Not a patch on injuries compared to tuchel.

Hilarious parallel drawn. If a manager at his worst can win an FA cup beating a City side unbeaten for 13 games in the final after putting Liverpool aside too, sign me the feck up to see what he can do at his best.

How do we know this isn’t Ten Hag at his best? What if his ceiling is the odd domestic cup win in amongst consistently underwhelming performances in the league? What if we haven’t yet seen Ten Hag at his worst?

 

[VP89]

How do we know this isn’t Ten Hag at his best? What if his ceiling is the odd domestic cup win in amongst consistently underwhelming performances in the league? What if we haven’t yet seen Ten Hag at his worst?

Because he's barely in the process, given the injury derailment this season? Tuchel imploded after winning a cup and fell out with people above him in every club irrespective of league.

Ten Hag has made his own mistakes, but also been dealt a shit hand and still won an FA cup. That's the difference. Ten hag at his absolute worst has still churned things out. I can't remember a season he didn't end with silverware in his career, might need to Google it.

Its pretty insane to be fair. Our first back to back trophies since 16/17, and in light of a lot of problems too before we consider managerial mistakes.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

For every good game we’ve had this season, there’s been like half dozen bad games to counter it.

For the heroic performance in the FA Cup Final, we got all our embarrassing performances in the Champions League group stage

For our good home win against West Ham, we got bad home defeats to Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Fulham and Arsenal

That Bournemouth game was particularly atrocious.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

This season was an anomaly for injuries, not only in quantity, but also in terms of longevity. Whilst other terms might have numerically matched our injury record, none matched the length of games missed as a result of them.

For this reason, the drop from 3rd to 8th must factor in the above as a major cause. It must, and for that reason, along with the instability of ownership decisions looming overhead, EtH perhaps ought to be afforded the chance to develop the squad he's building with the right infrastructure behind him.

I fear that a hasty sack could come back to impact us.

This is incorrect.

There are 5 clubs who have lost more days to injuries this season in the Premier League.

There are 4 clubs who have had more individual players injured than us this season.

In both categories there are clubs that finished above us in the league table.

 

[VP89]

This is incorrect.

There are 5 clubs who have lost more days to injuries this season in the Premier League.

There are 4 clubs who have had more individual players injured than us this season.

In both categories there are clubs that finished above us in the league table.

We have had the most time loss injuries in the season. We've had the 2nd most individual injuries.

 

[Zumbi]

This season was an anomaly for injuries, not only in quantity, but also in terms of longevity. Whilst other terms might have numerically matched our injury record, none matched the length of games missed as a result of them.

For this reason, the drop from 3rd to 8th must factor in the above as a major cause. It must, and for that reason, along with the instability of ownership decisions looming overhead, EtH perhaps ought to be afforded the chance to develop the squad he's building with the right infrastructure behind him.

I fear that a hasty sack could come back to impact us.

Two questions on this. Are we sure our injuries aren’t directly related to the style of play he has tried to implement? Are we safe in assuming it’s just all bad luck and absolutely nothing to do with what he’s got them doing in training and in games?

Secondly, the most damming thing for me has been his ongoing refusal to adjust our system and tactics based on our injuries. Sure, being unable to put out our preferred defence consistently is a big hindrance. But why then stubbornly stick with tactics that leave our midfield so wide open, thus brutally exposing our already vulnerable defence even more? Isn’t it his job to manage the team that’s available to him in a way that mitigates our weaknesses, instead of exacerbating them?

 

[Dominos]

He said in his press conference "we are on our way to construct a team for the future", "the team plays with an identity", "the team is progressing"..

Really not sure about that.

If we had taken the Arsenal/Arteta approach of building an a young squad and were gradually working towards a possession based style with the team's league position improving season on season as the young team gets more experienced, then you could have some sympathy. But he's actually made us significantly worse from previous season, so I'm not seeing the progress he's talking about. Granted you could say he's a victim of his own success of finishing 3rd in his first season, but there's no excuse to take us from 3rd to 8th,

This "team for the future" is so far away too as I look at our squad and I honestly wouldn't mind seeing 15 players leave this summer. The squad is full of injury prone players, past their prime older players, players who aren't good enough, and players who are fundamentally unsuited to a team who keeps possession of the football. And his hand-picked signings haven't done anything to improve the overall squad quality. If he wanted a team for the future the last thing he should have done is spunk 70m up the wall on Casemiro who's legs have gone and is ready to be shipped off to Saudi.

I'd rather have seen us finished 6th in his first season and 4th in his second season (with improved performance metrics), compared to 3rd in his first season and 8th in his second. At least we'd be able to see some signs that the more time the manager has, the more progress he will make with the team. Right now with Ten Hag you feel he's just as likely to take us backwards than he is forwards.

And we must not forget, we were lucky to be 8th this season. We performed like a lower half side. 14th/15th wouldn't have been an unfair reflection of our standard of play this season.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

We have had the most time loss injuries in the season. We've had the 2nd most individual injuries.

*6th most time lost.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cq55wy2qx21o

 

[VP89]

*6th most time lost.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cq55wy2qx21o

You've cherry picked one table in the article. Read the rest and analyse it better.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

You've cherry picked one table in the article. Read the rest and analyse it better.

I've cherry picked the one that lists the most time lost. I've then described it as "the most time lost".

 

[VP89]

I've cherry picked the one that lists the most time lost.

We are first in time loss injuries. It's literally the first table in the article you posted.

Thanks for admitting you've cherry picked injuries though.

 

[Kinsella]

Simple question here but with the calibre of squad that United has, together with the injuries over the course of the season, where do you all reckon United should’ve (or could’ve) finished in the league?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

We are first in time loss injuries. It's literally the first table in the article you posted.

No it isn't, I read it and provided the link.

My comment said

"There are 5 clubs who have lost more days to injuries this season in the Premier League.

There are 4 clubs who have had more individual players injured than us this season"

You replied with "we have had the most time lost with injuries" which is factually incorrect as that is the 3rd table where we are 6th. You either misread the stats or misspoke. Both are fine don't worry, maybe you are conflating individual injuries that caused us to miss time having a player available to what I said which was amount of time lost of player availablity. Which is fine.

 

[Jamierose95]

I was always ron atkinson in.

 

[Dominos]

He said in his press conference "we are on our way to construct a team for the future", "the team plays with an identity", "the team is progressing"..

Really not sure about that.

If we had taken the Arsenal/Arteta approach of building an a young squad and were gradually working towards a possession based style with the team's league position improving season on season as the young team gets more experienced, then you could have some sympathy. But he's actually made us significantly worse from previous season, so I'm not seeing the progress he's talking about. Granted you could say he's a victim of his own success of finishing 3rd in his first season, but there's no excuse to take us from 3rd to 8th,

This "team for the future" is so far away too as I look at our squad and I honestly wouldn't mind seeing 15 players leave this summer. The squad is full of injury prone players, past their prime older players, players who aren't good enough, and players who are fundamentally unsuited to a team who keeps possession of the football. And his hand-picked signings haven't done anything to improve the overall squad quality. If he wanted a team for the future the last thing he should have done is spunk 70m up the wall on Casemiro who's legs have gone and is ready to be shipped off to Saudi.

I'd rather have seen us finished 6th in his first season and 4th in his second season (with improved performance metrics), compared to 3rd in his first season and 8th in his second. At least we'd be able to see some signs that the more time the manager has, the more progress he will make with the team. Right now with Ten Hag you feel he's just as likely to take us backwards than he is forwards.

And we must not forget, we were lucky to be 8th this season. We performed like a lower half side. 14th/15th wouldn't have been an unfair reflection of our standard of play this season.

Now, let me make a case for Ten Hag.

2 years ago we thought we were getting one the most of progressive possession based coaches in Europe.

It's still possible he is that guy, and the circumstances and profile of squad here has not allowed him to show that.

It feels like he's abandoned his ideal way of playing for short term gain and because it would take too big a squad overhaul to get us playing like a top team should. It also doesn't help that his judge of talent in the transfer market and judgement on squad building has been horrendous.

If he's to stays, we need to
1. The people above the manager should decide to get rid of all old past prime players, injury prone players, players who aren't good enough, and player unsuited to a team who can keep possession. Even if that means getting rid of a couple of players that Ten Hag would rather keep.
2. Give him almost zero control of incoming transfers and employ the right people to make the decision on who we sign.
3. Insist he abandons the transition based style and build a team who can keep possession of a football like a top team should. And the club targets players in the transfer market who fit that mould.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Simple question here but with the calibre of squad that United has, together with the injuries over the course of the season, where do you all reckon United should’ve (or could’ve) finished in the league?

I don't know about placement, but under no circumstances should the club have finished with a -1 GD. That's inexecusable.

 

[Kirk lazarus]

I expect a manager I rate to get us looking like a half decent team more weeks than we don't. Especially after 2 years and half a billion.

Saf didn't do that either really , we had a 2nd and then went seriously backwards for a good while ,the football was crap we were also the biggest spenders of the time . Money is relative .

Hindsight is a wonderful thing . By your own standards , if it was up to you , we'd have sacked Saf and those incredible times you mention , most likely wouldn't have happened.

 

[JonIrenicus]

Are you being serious? Tuchel is proven at being a better coach for a start.

I don't see it. Tuchel has just had a disastrous season with Bayern of all teams. Losing the league with Bayern is way worse of a season than the season ETH just had (even if we discount the FA trophy). Also, he didn't even only lose the league, he finished third. I don't even want to get into Tuchel's reputation of losing the dressing room and bickering with the management at practically every club he has gone through. Tuchel would be a mistake. I feel like it'd be Jose all over again minus the trophies

 

[caid]

Simple question here but with the calibre of squad that United has, together with the injuries over the course of the season, where do you all reckon United should’ve (or could’ve) finished in the league?

Doesn't feel simple.
In a great season for Rashford, Varane and Casemiro maybe we could have scraped top 4 by the skin of our teeth. But i think Villa have a very good team so even that would be a real stretch. Think we could have finished lower easily too. A lot of the players lining up for us most weeks aren't out of place in midtable. Evans, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay, Amrabat, Eriksen. Even the kids while being really impressive for teenagers haven't done enough to complain about finishing where they have. Great for 19 year olds, ignoring that and judging them as first team united players - they were ok.

 

[NLunited]

Absolutely. Hailed as a tactical masterclass by his fans on here though. We were on our game no doubt, and were both dogged and effective, but it was a simple tactic as old as time.

The funny thing was that in what is probably his last game, he got a win against City using the exact tactics he was brought in to phase out 2 years ago. Ultimately he has failed in what he was brought in to achieve, and today's game and recent games show that.

The tactics were far from simple: there was pressing involved we did not just sit deep and counter. That is a naive statement.

Even if we had done that, I’d be fine with beating the cheating bastards however which way we can.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It's still possible he is that guy, and the circumstances and profile of squad here has not allowed him to show that.

He's spent half a billion. Are our squad really that horrendously bad on the ball that for 18 months we get dominated by teams like Fulham and Palace constantly?

I mean Maguire and Evans played better football at Leicester, Dalot played in a possession based AC Milan, Casemiro started in one of the best ever Real Madrid teams, Amrabat played in the team who dominated possession against West Ham last year, surely we all think Mainoo is capable of playing some decent possession football, Hojlund played for Atalanta who keep the ball constantly.

So many coaches go into sides and make it work in their style with what's available. Do we really need the perfect player on every position for Ten Hag to not be a worse version of Ole ball?

 

[Dominos]

Perhaps the better question would be in which position would we rather be right now?

You've cherry picked one table in the article. Read the rest and analyse it better.

I've cherry picked the one that lists the most time lost. I've then described it as "the most time lost".

We are first in time loss injuries. It's literally the first table in the article you posted.

Thanks for admitting you've cherry picked injuries though.

According to the article, Chelsea and Newcastle both had more days lost to injuries this season, and both finished above us. And their performance levels were just far far better than ours too, they sit 4th/5th in xPTS, whereas we sit 15th.

That's pretty bad viewing for us.

 

[NLunited]

I don't know about placement, but under no circumstances should the club have finished with a -1 GD. That's inexecusable.

There is a couple more parameters you could feed in to that question. I’d say we could easily have finished above Spurs, if we had avoided collapsing in winning positions and not been extremely poor against Brentford and the like.

Some of those performances were inexcusable and impossible to explain.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

According to the article, Chelsea and Newcastle both had more days lost to injuries this season, and both finished above us. And their performance levels were just far far better than ours too, they sit 4th/5th in xPTS, whereas we sit 15th.

That's pretty bad viewing for us.

I've said it all season, there are a lot of coaches who would have gotten a lot more out of our typical match day squad this season than what we saw.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

There is a couple more parameters you could feed in to that question. I’d say we could easily have finished above Spurs, if we had avoided collapsing in winning positions and not been extremely poor against Brentford and the like.

Some of those performances were inexcusable and impossible to explain.

This ignores the other end where we were lucky to even get points from games we got dominated.

8th place heavily flattered us with our performances.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

8th place heavily flattered us with our performances.

This is sadly a true statement.

I would go as far as to say that for large chunks of the season we looked like the worst team in the league who just happened to have a couple of very expensive players to dig us out and scrape some results.

 

[glazed]

But he's actually made us significantly worse from previous season, so I'm not seeing the progress he's talking about. Granted you could say he's a victim of his own success of finishing 3rd in his first season, but there's no excuse to take us from 3rd to 8th,

Not really fair. He wasn't trying to implement a new system last season at all. There's no doubt if he had stuck to last season's tactics we would have done better. But that's not why he was brought in.

However trying to implement a high press with Casemiro, Maguire and Johnny Evans was little short of suicidal.

 

[Dominos]

He's spent half a billion. Are our squad really that horrendously bad on the ball that for 18 months we get dominated by teams like Fulham and Palace constantly?

I mean Maguire and Evans played better football at Leicester, Dalot played in a possession based AC Milan, Casemiro started in one of the best ever Real Madrid teams, Amrabat played in the team who dominated possession against West Ham last year, surely we all think Mainoo is capable of playing some decent possession football, Hojlund played for Atalanta who keep the ball constantly.

So many coaches go into sides and make it work in their style with what's available. Do we really need the perfect player on every position for Ten Hag to not be a worse version of Ole ball?

Honestly, you're probably right.

It wouldn't surprise me though if he went somewhere else and has his team playing much better than us. There is just something cursed about this place. We should factor in our squad is notoriously sulky and goes through periods of downing tools which all of our previous managers suffered from post-Fergie.

Emery's 2nd season at Arsenal being a reference point for how things can just go horrible wrong for a manager at 1 club despite him actually being a good coach.

 

[NLunited]

Martinez is brilliant but if us not being embarrassing to watch most weeks of the season ultimately depends on the fitness of 1 injury prone player then Erik's planning has been a bit off.

Being that blind or stubborn to the horrendous effects of a blatantly obvious tactical mistake until a couple of weeks ago sets off alarm bells about his ability to do this job. Does it not for you?

(Ultimately none of us make the choice so if he fixes his obvious mistakes and suddenly gets us playing well then great. I'd be delighted and bake him a cake. I doubt it though)

Our last games in the league were rehearsals for the cup final. I don’t think it was ‘Ten Hag fixing his mistakes’ but adopting tactics to beat a superior Cheaty.

 

[spwd]

Great win today which makes the rest of the season fecking moronic. It's actually made me more eth out. Hope he's gone in the morning.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Our last games in the league were rehearsals for the cup final. I don’t think it was ‘Ten Hag fixing his mistakes’ but adopting tactics to beat a superior Cheaty.

Yeah maybe, I personally just think someone so blind or stubborn tactically will find another hill to die on next season even if he remembers that it's good to have midfielders in a football match.

He has broken all trust with that level of poor decision making.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Honestly, you're probably right.

It wouldn't surprise me though if he went somewhere else and has his team playing much better than us. There is just something cursed about this place. We should factor in our squad is notoriously sulky and goes through periods of downing tools which all of our previous managers suffered from post-Fergie.

Emery's 2nd season at Arsenal being a reference point for how things can just go horrible wrong for a manager at 1 club despite him actually being a good coach.

You will get no argument from me that there are a lot of issues in our squad. I still think a lot of coaches would have gotten more out of what was available to him on a week to week basis this season. Quite a lot more.

 

[Dominos]

Not really fair. He wasn't trying to implement a new system last season at all. There's no doubt if he had stuck to last season's tactics we would have done better. But that's not why he was brought in.

However trying to implement a high press with Casemiro, Maguire and Johnny Evans was little short of suicidal.

Well, that's poor management then.

You're meant to gradually improve the team year on year. It's also partly his own fault for spunking 70m on a midfielder who's in his 30s and can barely run anymore.

 

[tariqo]

He must stay if the board really wanna see a successful team next year … when the main players available we see what hag can do …. I trust him & hopefully he will stay

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Great win today which makes the rest of the season fecking moronic. It's actually made me more eth out. Hope he's gone in the morning.

I'm genuinly baffled by this take. If you're trolling then well done.

 

[r0663664]

If he had played the team that he played yesterday, we would lose lesser games and gain more points. Possibly finishing top 5, I am firmly ETH out but I am willing to give him 1 more shot. As long as the transfer targets that we buy isn't ETH choices. 2 CBs, 1 LB, 1 RB, 2 MF, 1 ST and 1 RW. Hopefully, these are players all less than 40 million pounds or on free transfers with all below 25 yo.