City have two teams they rotate.
KdB was ill for their CL game and they barely missed him.
We don't have the same bench, in combined quality and quantity at least.
Our players are not allowed rest.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
KdB was ill for their CL game and they barely missed him.
We don't have the same bench, in combined quality and quantity at least.
Our players are not allowed rest.
Are you new here? On caf when player is 30y old, he is finished.
On the other hand if you are younger than 26 then you are still young and learning.
So we should have a team of 26, 27, 28 and 29 year old players only
Yet we've played more than any other club on Europe since the World Cup.
We also don't have a "top team" squad to play that high frequency of games because the back players are shite. Look at the first half vs West Ham when he tried to rotate.
Fatigue definitely played a big part. But Erik is right not to allow it as an excuse because we have no other option.
None of that has anything to do with age of players, according to Transfermarket 2022.23, the number of mins played so far are:
De Bruyne .2,572
Casemiro 2.609
Eriksen 2.276
Fred 1.683
Bruno 3.503
Tbh if we just look at potential, I do think Antony has better raw attributes than Sancho. Left footed of course is more rare, but he is very press resistant, has excellent close control, has a great shot from range, has excellent technique... It's mental/decision making for him. He's ridiculously cautious with the ball while being selfish which is a weird mix on that he'll just ruin counters by not passing it but he also won't go at his fullback too often. Just slows down and plays it square or tries to shoot through traffic. In terms of agility, balance, even pace, work rate, technique/control/shooting ability... I think it's all there for him to be world class. Most of football is mental though, and that's where he has to develop.
Sancho on the other hand is a very smart player, lacks confidence sure but knowing when to pass/dribble/shoot I don't see as an issue for him. I do think he is far more limited with pace/agility/technique than Antony though. Both could go at their fullbacks more often.
I do think there's an outcome where Antony basically turns into Robben. Unlikely, but potential wise it's there. I don't see that level for Sancho, though what he did as a young player for Dortmund was ridiculously good, just more a good not great talent being an extremely smart player.
So you think we can play our players twice a week and not expect injuries? When you get into your 30s, recovery takes longer and you're more likely to get injured.
Pretending it doesn't is just mind-bogglingly delusional
In addition to what is being said publicly I think EtH needs to invite a few of the journalists that wrote some of those snidey articles quoting "some within the squad" having an opinion on Bruno's captaincy...Wout weghorst etc in for a quiet chat.
He needs to find out if this was an actual leak or just newspaper bullshit. If it's a leak then he needs to find the source of that leak and sideline them.
Having a terrible display is one thing, but trying to exonerate yourself by selling out your colleagues is despicable.
If he can't find out the leak source then he can tell the players and the journalists....future leaks will sideline the player and be a 6 month ban for the journalist.
He needs to find out if this was an actual leak or just newspaper bullshit. If it's a leak then he needs to find the source of that leak and sideline them.
Having a terrible display is one thing, but trying to exonerate yourself by selling out your colleagues is despicable.
If he can't find out the leak source then he can tell the players and the journalists....future leaks will sideline the player and be a 6 month ban for the journalist.
Still leaks coming out, great.
Really? Keep reading this, but they’re not similar. The way for Antony to come good is to have midfielders, a right back and centre-forward who are good on the ball. I think he’d be a lot better in combinations then. I think you’d have seen a different player if Martial had stayed fit or Harry Kane was up front. Not saying that would make him worth 90 million, but I think he’s someone who’ll be a lot better with short combinations against deeper lines.
I think his profile is very different to Robben, Di Maria, Giggs (all of which I’ve seen him compared to this week). All of those can tear teams open on their own, especially on the break, which he just doesn’t/can’t.
He barely does a give and go let alone find someone with a through ball in a 1-2. He's a cut in and shoot merchant like Robben.
He can still be useful - just a little more aggressive in the final 3rd when he receives the ball 1v1 and better finishing ability but remains to be seen if he can take that step.
When he played Dortmund for Ajax he was really good with short dribbles, 1-2s, and coming inside with those but that’s in a side that had been together a lot longer and with players who were more on that wavelength. All of the Ajax players were playing one/two touch all the time then.
Ten Hag has done well this season, but I don’t think he’s got the players yet to get United playing exactly how he wants. It might be that Antony is just not good enough, but he might be a lot better after a season, and with better recruitment.
There is literally no chance Antony was the best right wing option who is better than Antony
We know we could have a cf option for half the Antony fee given eth wanted gakpo
The idea that Antony could turn into robben is laughable. He may try the same trick but robben could go past players for fun and had an incredible left foot. Antony has neither, he occasionally strikes the ball well but its about as often as andros townsend
I mean you could have said for Townsend that his ultimate peak trajectory was Arjen Robben too... It's not so much a statement of his quality now as the 99th percentile outcome for his career path. He almost definitely won't, but he does have the right technical attributes and physical attributes that he could become something like that. Right now he's like a 40% Robben who is very good at not losing the ball. He could reach 75% and stop there. If you know what I mean. It's the same as Darwin Nunez having anything from current Lukaku to Haaland as a range of outcomes for his development.
its me saying that Antony has the raw attributes to become an elite player who could be a top goalscorer from the wing. He would just need to develop pretty much the entirety of his mental game when it comes to attacking his fullback, decision making, etc. Who knows how it pans out.
A lot of these leaks actually look like it might be the club trying to set the narrative here. I mean, it's not really gossip type of stuff (like infighting and finger-pointing), it's all about how robust Ten Hag's response to the match has been.
You think Nunez could develop into a Haaland if it goes well?
Harsh, he wasnt schooled. ETH brought it all on himself. Even without hindsight - he couldnt go more wrong with that set-up if he tried - regardless of Klopp´s eleven&tactics. Good thing is Erik will never go again with WW as a tip of midfield triangle.
Agree with everything you said and I completely understand your sentiment. You just picked the wrong Bayern player to compare! Robben was a flying winger with serious pace, incredibly efficient dribbling and finishing ability. Don't think Antony has the physical attributes to glide past players in a kick and run fashion, which is a massive asset to have. Antony's ultimate final evolution (insert DBZ "this isn't even my final form!") is probably Ribery.
Okay even that is a bit of a poor comparison but Ribery is someone stylistically and positionally Antony should be looking to emulate or grow into. More penetrative runs, more assists/final balls, more link up play and more decisive decisions and passing in the final third. Same can be said of Sancho.
Hopefully we'll recruit more midfielders and players where we can genuinely dominate possession on and off the ball, so our attacking players can spend more time in the opposition half honing in on their attacking strengths.
Yeah, he is pretty beastly with his size/strength/pace and has some excellent off the ball movement. Kicking the ball for him is a roll of the dice though so if he sorted that part out, he'd definitely be among the world's best.
I actually am of the opposite opinion. I think Sancho has better raw attacking attributes apart from shooting. I just think Antony is superior mentally in a lot of the buildup/off the ball parts of the match. You can tell he always has a fighting spirit apart from when the time comes to dribble past a defender in the final third. Sancho looks more passive, but I rate his ability in tighter spaces when looking to combine with teammates as he's more clever. For example, Sancho knows when to poke the ball past a defender to combine safely, what runs to make after, and more clarity in the box. If Antony can develop in that area, then Sancho can develop in resisting the press as he has amazing footwork too.
I feel like if both players improve, Antony's goal record will be above Sancho's, but Sancho will rack up more assists.
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Shocking when people don't back the managerYup, they're all here
When he's won a cup in his first 8 months in charge, shown continued progress and has a 70 odd percent win rate, it sure is.
I even backed Ole up until things became farcical. So that's some context for you
Has the guy said anything after Sunday, other than the PC after the game?
Press conference for EL is today at 12.
Robben's biggest asset (besides that left foot) was that he was extremely explosive. He had really good acceleration and a really good top speed, in addition to being a good dribbler, especially at pace. Only one of those things is an aspect of your game that you can develop. A lack of acceleration and top speed is probably Antony's biggest weakness. If he had those it could cover up for other deficiencies in his game, but he doesn't seem to be able to outrun anyone really (I know there have been one or two instances but by and large full backs seem to have no issue keeping up with him)
ETH has worked wonders with a lot of our players that were underperforming but I have no doubt that, given the proper funding, there are a lot of players he would prefer to be rid of and replacements brought in. Even more so after a full season with them. With the right backing from new owners I think we will see a lot of the current players being shipped out in time to come, especially some that may surprise a few people.
To be fair completely fair Nunez has a lot of the raw ingredients that make Haaland the player he is, insane strength and speed, good movement. If he sorted out some of the technical aspects of his game then there's not much that would separate the two of them. Bad comparison to make as Nunez is probably the striker most like Haaland in world football currently
The guy.
I think that some of you are going overboard with this. If you make a poll right now i bet that 99% of people here would say that ETH is the perfect manager for us and are delighted with his job so far.When he's won a cup in his first 8 months in charge, shown continued progress and has a 70 odd percent win rate, it sure is.
I even backed Ole up until things became farcical. So that's some context for you
Pointing out at something which he (maybe) did wrong is part of football talk. No manager (or player) is not perfect. Everyone has a bad day.
Tactically schooled by klopp, Not rotating some players enough, starting Bruno on the left, leaving Trent off the hook, unable to change/stop the humiliation in the second half.
Bad day at the office for the manager. I wish it ended in 4-0/5-0 not 7-0. I didn’t want him to carry this spot as the manager of the worst defeat in our history
Bad day at the office for the manager. I wish it ended in 4-0/5-0 not 7-0. I didn’t want him to carry this spot as the manager of the worst defeat in our history
The post he quoted was actually me pointing out that a hell of a-lot of Ole fans who were previously non-existent in here, suddenly showed up after the Liverpool game.
Some of the OTT reactions to the game have been fecking outrageous, but yes, it's a small vocal minority.
I agree with this other than the shooting /finishing part. Sancho just doesn't shoot as often as Antony but when he does his technique is more reliable.
Quality control
There should be no discussion.
He should have been sacked already.
Keeping him still is like displaying a carcas of his managerial stint. He'll never recover from it.
If Klopp, who won them PL and CL got his team this humiliated we'd be laughing at them for keeping him around, nevermind this guy who "showed flashes" of his ability.
Oh and the signings he picks go to Anfield to touch the crest!!?
Kick him out!
He should have been sacked already.
Keeping him still is like displaying a carcas of his managerial stint. He'll never recover from it.
If Klopp, who won them PL and CL got his team this humiliated we'd be laughing at them for keeping him around, nevermind this guy who "showed flashes" of his ability.
Oh and the signings he picks go to Anfield to touch the crest!!?
Kick him out!
Great point! Never mind shipping 7 goals to Liverpool, imagine if Liverpool ever let a team like Aston Villa put 7 past them and were stupid enough to let Klopp hang round. They’d never win anything ever again!
You would pay £80mil for Sancho again, but are worried about Anthony?
Anthony having a far better first reason in my opinion than Sancho ever had.
When he's won a cup in his first 8 months in charge, shown continued progress and has a 70 odd percent win rate, it sure is.
I even backed Ole up until things became farcical. So that's some context for you
The 70%+ is insane, why I'm baffled why people are focusing on one off big score defeats like their is better options out their.
Yes. Because Sancho is a complete player and which is more important; we all saw what he can do in top form (in Dortmund). His numbers and his overall play was amazing.
Antony? He has smiliar numbers here as he had in Ajax. He is not goal scoring winger or change creating winger.
For me, Sancho is much better player but i do hope that Antony will raise his game next season. Tempo and intensity of PL is something different comparing to any other league so next year we shall see how good Antony really is.
A-bit of criticism is fine, no one is immune to critique. But it's the ludicrous OTT stuff that's plagued the forum since Sunday, that's pissing people off. It's not just ETH either; the shite being spewed in the player performance threads is just as bad.
All of this, literally the week after we win our first cup in 6-years, makes it even more ridiculously dramatic.
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