He might think that alright, as you say done over in those games so could be higher in the table but current position is about right IMO.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Because small sample of this early stage of a season is difficult to judge due to different kind of fixture.
By week game 13 last season we played:
So mostly top half teams of the final table and some difficult bottom half side like West Ham and Chelsea (!). This season all our victories had come from current bottom half teams, and we have yet played a full handful of game against top half of the table (lost all 4).
It's clear that despite a bad start, and tougher fixture at the start of last season, we played through it into some form which carried our season. This time, we have only been grinding result against bottom half with the tough fixture is to come in the hectic December-January period.
Martinez didn't play today, and Shaw played well, so what's your point?
I hope he sticks with Mainoo and Garnacho, and the team continues to get younger. Seeing young players get a proper chance is so encouraging.
I loved that he started Mainoo today.
I loved that he started Mainoo today.
Ye I agree. It is quite annoying though if you add the extra 6pts we possibly should have then we are a lot closer to the top.
Imagine watching that game, a clean sheet and 3 goals, with one of the best goals you'll ever see, an unreal performance from an 18 year old academy lad that plays in a position we've had issues with for years, away from home against a very in-form and riled up team, and deciding to just moan about the game straight away. Mind boggling stuff.
Yeah soooo weird. By the way, whining about other posters posting behaviour does seem like an odd way to celebrate "a clean sheet and 3 goals, with one of the best goals you'll ever see, an unreal performance from an 18 year old academy lad that plays in a position we've had issues with for years, away from home against a very in-form and riled up team" but what do I know, right?
We aren't to know how United would have done this time last season with the same amount of injuries especially in defence whereby is the worst place to get them as even Klopp's Liverpool discovered a few seasons ago that included a number of defeats at home to bottom half sides in the table.
Personally until I see some improvement in our play I’m always going to be expecting a defeat against the better teams in the league. Next weekend is another good test let’s see if we are making any real progress at the moment.
Let's not try to compare to another team here, else we would start to compare to SAF' era where injury crisis in defense was kind of a norm, yet we were still title challenger/ winner.
Klopp team had a strong title winning like run at the end of the season. In that season, Klopp team had a decent start where they we're still top of the table until New Year! All that they had experience and quality to carry it out. Can we say the same about us (playing well and beating top half teams), when outside of the decent start of last season, we seem to struggle against top half of the table since second half of last season?
Last season, Dalot and Malacia started a host of these games because AWB Shaw were injured and/or out of form too. Casemiro only started like half of the first 13 last season after his late transfer and adaption time. Antony was in better form and scored in his first 3 games, but he missed the first 5. His form dropped soon after and inconsistent end product reverted to the norm quickly.
The excuse for this season can only stretch for a certain extend in this season context. But not a good case for comparison to other seasons. If it were like last season, I am not worried now.
There's a very vocal contingent here who decided pretty early on that the manager is the sole issue with United, and they're upset about everything that isn't the manager being sacked.
The ideal results for them are losses with players they think are the manager's players doing poorly.
I'm sick of reading all of these bellends moaning constantly, ruining this forum. It's also like 5 hours after the game, I've had ample time to celebrate.
All the more reason why I do compare. If expected title challenger and title winner can struggle with injuries mainly towards their defence then what about this current United team that aren't aren't close to challenging. Any team whatever is their celling is for the season (Top 4 at best for this current United team IMO) you must first build from the back and it first helps to have a settled back four playing week in and week out.
That's a weird logic. Any teams can struggle, but when the injuries, eased up who would have the ceiling to perform and go on a run amidst tough fixture? This team or the PL/CL challenging?
So because you have an injury crisis, you would be ready to write off the entire season? Was Klopp team unrecognizable during their worst time from the supposed top form? SAF's United? Nothing to do with manager's credit in the bank by winning top trophies in previous seasons? If the same logic is applied, then there is no teams sacking managers ever because managers can just secretly mess up training and having unfit players give them the excuses they need.
Both would have the ceiling to perform. And while not having the same credit in the bank as Klopp I think Ten Hag has some himself for finishing 3rd and winning a trophy in his first season.
Weird to see a starting team of Onana, seven senior outfielders who predate Ten Hag and two fresher academy graduates. A whole lot of injured investment, some of which cannot get in the side anyway.
This post has aged badly so far. Prepare your Gast to be thoroughly flabbered, think he will see out the month from here…..
People need to chill out. We have coaching issues and it squarely lies on ETH door but our problem is very minimum. Midfield control. We just need to find a way to control football games. Nothing else. We have good defensive players, we have good offensive players what we lack is people in the middle who can pass the ball till tomorrow morning without losing possession.
Either through coaching or new players.
What we need now is results as we grow as a team.
Either through coaching or new players.
What we need now is results as we grow as a team.
This is where the tests really begin. Starting Wednesday.
Gala, Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, Villa: I still don’t see him surviving those games tbbh.
Whilst today was a potentially unexpected great result. It was still against Everton. An Everton side who we managed to allow 24 shots on goal and had less possession than which is quite astonishing.
If we play like we did today against Newcastle. They will genuinely be 5-0 up inside 45 mins. The intensive press they put on in that area of the pitch where we had no midfield today will be our downfall if Eth even dares going with the same eleven. He HAS to bring in Amrabat for that one. And he needs to start making a big decision with Rashford because his performance can’t be allowed to go unpunished.
Gala, Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, Villa: I still don’t see him surviving those games tbbh.
Whilst today was a potentially unexpected great result. It was still against Everton. An Everton side who we managed to allow 24 shots on goal and had less possession than which is quite astonishing.
If we play like we did today against Newcastle. They will genuinely be 5-0 up inside 45 mins. The intensive press they put on in that area of the pitch where we had no midfield today will be our downfall if Eth even dares going with the same eleven. He HAS to bring in Amrabat for that one. And he needs to start making a big decision with Rashford because his performance can’t be allowed to go unpunished.
Feck me that’s grim.
Yup, in the next 28 days we face all those teams. It’s a mammoth task, let alone with all the players missing. Bournemouth at home and West Ham away too during that period.
We must win all those games, though. We need points
Ah okay, we just need to go on the best run of form of all time or else you’ll be pissed. Easy.
We’ve reached the stage where people are having proper melts after a win
brings back some Ole memories
brings back some Ole memories
Many already pointed out this. It's not about the result. At the beginning of ETH appointment, many already stated that we need to have a certain modern attacking style of play. It may takes 2 or 3 years to build but we need to see progress.
As of now, even the football experts not sure what's our style of play. To me, as a layman, I don't see any changes from Ole's time. We don't have midfield and we don't have understanding amongst player. We are playing counter attacking football.
There were countless time when a player receive a ball at promising attacking position but no team mate make the positive run and resulted in the player need to do a back or side pass. It's easy to defend against us and no surprises we struggle to score goal.
ETH needs to make drastic improvement. This is just not good enough for a big club like Man Utd. If this continues, I think SJR will see this as an area that need immediate improvement for long term rebuild for the future of the club.
As of now, even the football experts not sure what's our style of play. To me, as a layman, I don't see any changes from Ole's time. We don't have midfield and we don't have understanding amongst player. We are playing counter attacking football.
There were countless time when a player receive a ball at promising attacking position but no team mate make the positive run and resulted in the player need to do a back or side pass. It's easy to defend against us and no surprises we struggle to score goal.
ETH needs to make drastic improvement. This is just not good enough for a big club like Man Utd. If this continues, I think SJR will see this as an area that need immediate improvement for long term rebuild for the future of the club.
Should win manager of the month for November, only team to win 3/3 games.
I am quite surprised by the furore in here after that game. The talk since Everton got the points deduction revolved around whether we'd even win and it was recognised that this would be a pressure cooker environment. That's not the time where you're suddenly going to see silken football, and it is exactly the kind of game where our collective PTSD was more likely than not to raise its head. That that didn't happen was noteworthy for me. I didn't find the game to be same old, same old, which is why the uproar seems off.
We were more cohesive and progressive and I felt it was easier to identify players for praise and those, then, who were not to standard, which is different to the collective calamity we've been for most of the season.
I have high expectation of our style of football changing now. Why? Because Mainoo is the definition of an Ajax ball playing midfielder. Fluid, clever, agile, technically superb - you don't play pub football with a player like that at your disposal, and any kind of football Erik felt he was being restricted from playing needs to be back on the table. Certainly that over playing mindless, clogging football when you have a midfielder who knits play in his sleep in your midfield.
The ten Hag we thought we were getting should be more on display in the upcoming games, and it will be interesting to see how his tactical and strategic approaches alter to cater to Mainoo's game.
I know some are looking at the run of games as make or break, but I think having a footballer who enables you to play football should bring more eyes to the assessment of the football we're actually playing. It's two-fold; you don't waste an asset like that with the kind of football we have been playing, so we'll see from this point, what's going to be what. That's also with the factor of Shaw being back that doubles the point made as he's another player you don't play donkey football with over much more cultured stuff.
We were more cohesive and progressive and I felt it was easier to identify players for praise and those, then, who were not to standard, which is different to the collective calamity we've been for most of the season.
I have high expectation of our style of football changing now. Why? Because Mainoo is the definition of an Ajax ball playing midfielder. Fluid, clever, agile, technically superb - you don't play pub football with a player like that at your disposal, and any kind of football Erik felt he was being restricted from playing needs to be back on the table. Certainly that over playing mindless, clogging football when you have a midfielder who knits play in his sleep in your midfield.
The ten Hag we thought we were getting should be more on display in the upcoming games, and it will be interesting to see how his tactical and strategic approaches alter to cater to Mainoo's game.
I know some are looking at the run of games as make or break, but I think having a footballer who enables you to play football should bring more eyes to the assessment of the football we're actually playing. It's two-fold; you don't waste an asset like that with the kind of football we have been playing, so we'll see from this point, what's going to be what. That's also with the factor of Shaw being back that doubles the point made as he's another player you don't play donkey football with over much more cultured stuff.
Playing mainoo ahead of Amrabat and from how we saw ETH giving the kid consistent run during pre season, you just know ETH gas plans with him. In ETH we trust
Supported. We will only get better
Maybe the football experts are blind. We need to have a style of play, we also need to win matches. Look at the first and last goal, you will see how ETH wants to play. The first might be remembered for the overhead kick goal, but 4 passes from the back to the front and it's a goal. ETH himself said we want to be the best counter attacking side in the world. Lure the opposing teams to our half, find our runners who should have gotten space and watch them try their bit
Thanks for pointing it out. I obviously meant since Sir Alex left.
You are my favorite kind of poster on this website. Someone who have a passing interest in United or football, but are here on the forum to highlight mistakes or typos or whatever.
For future reference: Keep doing the good work and you'll keep earning my appreciation. Atta boy!
Important win yesterday. Style of play still left much to be desired.
Ah well, it was nice being only 6 points behind the top for a while
Hmm... football experts are blind? Okay.
Anyway, back to the point, for a club as big as Man Utd, we need to have much better style of play. The way big clubs play, something closer to City, Liverpool and Arsenal. To lesser extent Spurs and Brighton.
Counter attacking, transition football or whatever it's called for ETH's style will bring us nowhere. Football has moved on, see Jose. We need to dominate the midfield, better movement, pressing, fitness and pass the ball around with much higher pace in order to break down a team. As of now, we are too slow and predictable, hence very easy to defend against. We have the same problem during LVG, Jose and Ole time, it was called zombie football or something.
ETH needs drastic improvement, otherwise a proper competent new owner or a revamp football structure would look for better alternative.
No, people are being realistic. And so we should be after 10 years of utter sh***. You may enjoy that, but I certainly don't, and other big clubs do not accept it.
People, and that includes many involved in the game who do know their football, are questioning the quality of this Man Utd team and the manager. We have have beaten Everton, Fulham, Sheff Utd, Luton, Brentford and FC Copenhagen. Look at the quality of our football in those games. And look at that fixture list? And we also lost to FC Copenhagen. Let's not talk about the Newcastle Cup game, or the Citeh match, or the Crystal Palace games, right?
We need to be realistic. How we contend against the better teams, will, and rightly so, define our season and ETH as a coach. I don't want a coach who thinks beating Everton and Fulham away is some major achievement. They are commendable victories, yes and no game is easy, but what do we want for Man Utd, continual mediocrity?
Look at how many clubs have injuries to deal with. We need to keep our expectations high at Man Utd.
Knowing our luck, Mainoo may just get injured tomorrow.
I'd say two things are true this season:
1. ETH has done well to get us to the points total in the league given the injuries
2. ETH has done poorly at instilling any kind of coherent midfield that looks likely to help us control football matches
We have a goal difference of 0. That tells far more of the story than the points, for me. The injuries are hugely disruptive, particularly Martinez and Casemiro, but I just don't see what we're trying to do. Even yesterday, for 30 minutes our midfield went awol and we should/could have gone into the half down. Most of the teams we're competing with simply control matches better than we do, and that's what ETH is supposed to be building towards.
I don't see it. We're still built to counter attack, still give away too many chances and still lack the coaching/technical ability to smother a match with posession when needed.
1. ETH has done well to get us to the points total in the league given the injuries
2. ETH has done poorly at instilling any kind of coherent midfield that looks likely to help us control football matches
We have a goal difference of 0. That tells far more of the story than the points, for me. The injuries are hugely disruptive, particularly Martinez and Casemiro, but I just don't see what we're trying to do. Even yesterday, for 30 minutes our midfield went awol and we should/could have gone into the half down. Most of the teams we're competing with simply control matches better than we do, and that's what ETH is supposed to be building towards.
I don't see it. We're still built to counter attack, still give away too many chances and still lack the coaching/technical ability to smother a match with posession when needed.
The only "chance" we created in the entire first half was Garnacho's goal.
It was a good result, but the performance itself was shambolic. Everton had 24 shots on goal, compared to our 9. The only improvement yesterday on recent weeks were we took our limited chances when they came, but the organisation, ball retention, chance creation and patterns of play with all as non-existent as they have been for months.
It's all well and good beating the likes of Everton, Brentford, Luton, Fulham etc but the manager will quite rightly by judged by how the team performs in the big games, against better opposition - we'll see how he fares this month.
I personally think he's way out of his depth and we'll see a few seriously questionable performances/results against the likes of Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa.
It was a good result, but the performance itself was shambolic. Everton had 24 shots on goal, compared to our 9. The only improvement yesterday on recent weeks were we took our limited chances when they came, but the organisation, ball retention, chance creation and patterns of play with all as non-existent as they have been for months.
It's all well and good beating the likes of Everton, Brentford, Luton, Fulham etc but the manager will quite rightly by judged by how the team performs in the big games, against better opposition - we'll see how he fares this month.
I personally think he's way out of his depth and we'll see a few seriously questionable performances/results against the likes of Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa.
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Well seems like improvement is coming from players performance (Onana, Mainoo) plus flashes of brilliance like we saw yesterday. I don't think we're really are following any plan at the moment (McTominay as key player suggests that to me) but ETH deserves time as clearly most of the buildup by design should come from 3 players that have been missing until now (Shaw, Martinez and maybe even Mainoo).