He's a 7 time world champion of course he does. He publicly praised the efforts when they won titles and he has the right to tell them this current car isn't good enough.
I can't believe people are annoyed at him for this.
F1 2023 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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I can't believe people are annoyed at him for this.
I expected it, all he had to do is say anything a certain few in here crucify him.
Any driver with the same experience would say the same , Alonso said it about his engine a few season ago.
We havent even gotten to race 2 yet and this season feels like it needs to end.
Ferrari new rear wing for this season, isnt working properly so they are running last years rear wing. Great.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/187118/new-rear-wing-ferrari-not-yet-working-properly.html
Also a climate of fear at ferrari, to the point that ideas for this years car havent been explored over winter. Sigh.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/187043/major-turmoil-at-ferrari-talks-for-leclerc-after-bahrain.html
Ferrari new rear wing for this season, isnt working properly so they are running last years rear wing. Great.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/187118/new-rear-wing-ferrari-not-yet-working-properly.html
Also a climate of fear at ferrari, to the point that ideas for this years car havent been explored over winter. Sigh.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/187043/major-turmoil-at-ferrari-talks-for-leclerc-after-bahrain.html
Lewis Hamilton could leave Merc for Ferrari if team not competitive.
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Mercedes car and Ferrari cars both struggling, the only car to even get close is the Aston and to be honest I dont think they have enough to really challenge Red Bull.
Alonso is the right driver for that car, but will have to drive at 110% for the whole season to get even close and with Red Bull turning their engine down for the first race, dont see Aston doing it.
Hopefully upgrades to both Mer and Ferrari will address some of the problems and make the season worth watching.
It is an interesting option for both parties.
Toto and Mercedes would hate it and I suspect a fair few Ferrari fans.
As a Ferrari fan I would like it(despite few people thinking I hate him or something like that), it would be nice to have such a driver in their history.
However, I really don't think he will win another title with Ferrari sooner than with Mercedes, IMO. Mercedes is still easily more reliable car and team than Ferrari, they are step back when it comes to aerodynamics, but once they sort that out they will be ahead of everything on Ferrari again. Ferrari made good aerodynamic car(but still worse than Red Bull and even Aston), but their engine and car in general is still less reliable than Mercedes, and as a team their race decisions are still very questionable.
Dont think Ferrari would have much interest in him now.
Also dont think he'd want to go to Ferrari just to be beaten most weekends by Leclerc.
Also dont think he'd want to go to Ferrari just to be beaten most weekends by Leclerc.
Hamilton in a ferrrai would be great to see (especially against leclerc) but i think a driver alone isnt enough to make ferrari into wolrd champions. Its too hard. Needs the right team prinicpal and cheif technical officer etc who have the backing of ferrari to have the autonomy without interference to go take the team in the right direction. Agree it would be easier to win title 8 with Mercedes than ferrari which would take longer imho.
I think max will be in a ferrari eventually (a few years), be interesting to see by then if he has the off the track ability to get ferrari pushing in the right direction and make them into world champions.
Do you think the drivers don’t put any input into the cars they are driving? Do you think redbull just make a car and then say to max, here you go, go and drive it?
No. Do you think Max sat in with Newey and the boys at the factory while they were developing the car?
What you're doing here is confusing drivers having a huge input every weekend with car setup and balance, with drivers designing their cars and constructing an aerodynamic philosophy.
Fair enough.
I just thought there’s people in this very thread who thought the design was flawed and would fail and think they know more than these engineers, I’m sure a driver would drive a car and feel it wasn’t finely balanced or couldn’t get out of it what they expected or whatever and would put their input into that, which then got ignored.
I think a massive meal had been made out of what Lewis has said because it’s Lewis. Nothing more.
He's not done anything plenty of other drivers haven't done. It still obviously wasn't wise of him to publicly say that Mercedes design engineers should "show accountability", "own up" and admit they "didnt listen to him". Because he's also confusing the input he has every weekend with what design engineers and aerodynamicists actually do, which is all stuff that he has no clue about.
There's quite a bit more ignorance there than Fernando moaning about his GP3 engine.
Hamilton should've jumped ship a couple of years ago, there were strong rumours but he decided to stick with Merc. Could've been a McLaren/Merc move for him and he did state he'd like to drive for them one day.
Merc might have a decent car next year. I wonder if it could've been possible under the budget at the end of last season to build a loose Red Bull prototype, see the relative numbers and switch development.
Merc might have a decent car next year. I wonder if it could've been possible under the budget at the end of last season to build a loose Red Bull prototype, see the relative numbers and switch development.
Aston Martin body looks like a completely new car this year from the comparision pictures I've seen, and Red Bull made many changes watching from the front too, if they don't overspend this year then surely it will mean that other cars on the grid can completely change their design under budget for next year too and there is no need for panic?
The engineers spend every moment they can trying to maximise their interpretation of the rules. One team was radically different and the car is a pos. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist (literally), to know they fecked up.
This is broadly the crux of it. There’s no new interview that’s suddenly come out, it’s just about 30 seconds of dialogue post race from Sunday, broadly supported by his team boss.
This has then gone through the over analysed media stage, taken out of context to suit by the usual suspects in that field, as they’ve got nothing to talk about for 2 weeks to the next race.
I'm sure you know best. You should write a letter to Mercedes and tell them where they went wrong.
Never in human history has a different design ever proved better or a minority been in the right. Ever. Never happened. Not once.
My god, the car was a piece of shit when they rolled it off the truck. Every clown and his dog could see that. You seem to think you need to be a genius to see that a car that is 1 second a lap slower than the fastest car on the grid is not a piece of shit. You’re wrong and maybe a little butt hurt who knows. It’s quite simple, radical designs that are slow or not performing, are feck ups.
I don’t have to write a letter to Merc because they would have seen it was a pig during simulation.
It was anything but a pig during simulation. Simulation wise its the fastest concept. Its just utterly impossible to get the CFD numbers to match reality on the track. If they ever did (they wont), they would leave the RedBull for dead on track.
They arent the first or last to be seduced by the numbers, happen to porsche in LMh. Happens in other non f1 stuff (aircraft) where CFD numbers dont match reality.
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The entire grid could try to copy the RB/AM design i.e. front wing/front axle/sidepods/beam wing/rear wing.
Problem is the most important bit, i.e. the floor geometry underneath the car is hidden. Short of a AM/RB being lifted up by a crane or flipping over, no-one else will get to see the floor.
The rear suspension housing is also covered and you cant see that either. So you can copy a AM/RB but it wont yeild similar performance.
Dan Fellows was more heavily involved in the floor design of last years RB than Newey (who cleverly decided to focus on designing the suspension). Dan Fellows has taken that floor knowledge to AM and its paying dividends.
Coming back to Mercedes, this is the problem they face. 50% of the AM, mostly the rear is all Mercedes. The front wing, front axle, sidepods, floor isnt. Those all interplay together to make the AM go like a RB. Decoding that without knowing the floor geometry is very difficult (in my armchair fans humble opinion).
In your opinion. You’ve got no factual barometer to know if Hamilton complains more than others. Bizarre platform to base your entire argument on.
Yeah, the floor is really important, but again, how AM did it? IMO,, they were just smarter than anyone else this year, made massive changes unlike Ferrari and Merc who for some reason thought they will be quicker just by making small changes for some reason.
You seem to think I am obsessed with proving that Hamilton is moaner or something.
Guess what, he is a moaner, and a big one. Everyone agrees on that. If you don't agree with that then I don't care, if you want someone to prove a point then it should be you to deny it because pretty much everyone here agrees with me on this except some Hamilton fans.and again, that is fine, I don't care.
AM were coming from further back on the grid compared to last season and they have been aggressive in recruiting from the big three. Obviously if you get one of Neweys core team members to jump ship, that knowledge once applied will get you up the pecking order.
I forget the name of the ferrari aerodynamist whos on "gardening leave" before he joins Mclaren. Just in time for their new wind tunnel to be completed. Wouldnt be a suprise for the 2024 Mclaren to be a copy of the Ferrari.
Yeah, that's good point.
Laughing emojis don’t suddenly enhance your point.
You seem to think I am obsessed with proving that Hamilton is moaner or something.
Guess what, he is a moaner, and a big one. Everyone agrees on that. If you don't agree with that then I don't care, if you want someone to prove a point then it should be you to deny it because pretty much everyone here agrees with me on this except some Hamilton fans.and again, that is fine, I don't care.
I agree, Hamilton moans. Didn’t disagree. Simply made the point that it is in YOUR opinion that he moans MORE than other drivers in comparable positions. I.E the point around relatively. The assumption underpins your entire argument. And so please don’t come at me as if I have some kind of agenda to prove you hate Hamilton. Just pointing out that your key assumption is based on your opinion which isn’t factually proven (and no, the onus is not on me to prove it; it’s your assumption, it’s yours to prove. And I don’t think it’s universally agree that Hamilton moans MORE than others in a comparable position (reminder in case it isn’t clear enough: not that he moans, that he moans MORE).
You seem to have some kind of issue with everyone who doesn’t agree that Hamilton looks bad out of this (which, by the way, I haven’t even passed a view on). You clearly do care based on your replies in this thread but OK, keep saying you don’t care: again, doesn’t add strength to your argument.
Anyway, done arguing semantics.
As for the actual issue here, I think he didn’t need to come out in public and say this - but for anyone willing to dig a bit deeper into the context and not just read the words, it’s plainly obvious the issue has been misrepresented. I think it’s unnecessary and he’s saying stuff he didn’t have to say, but it’s nonetheless being misrepresented.
As for the discussion about Hamilton knowing what a car needs, it’s obviously somewhere between having no ability to input and being able to be a key input. It’s naive to think F1 drivers have no understanding of certain things which impact the fundamental driveability of a car. Yes their expertise is primarily to support weekend setups, but it’s ignorant to think they can have no input to fundamental design decisions. Having said that, they would only be a small part of the puzzle. The engineers and data and expertise in these fields is much more important, obviously. But, a driver would be able to input, and certainly with a real world lens beyond just data and analysis and stats. And remember, that’s the key issue here for Mercedes. They’ve gone with a concept which looks incredible in simulation but cannot be replicated in the real world.
Looks like Ferrari are falling apart internally, designers leaving and preparing to leave
Yep, the new CEO Vigna is apparently a prat.
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1022019/1/another-top-ferrari-figure-wants-quit-due-ceo-discontent
And vassure won't hang around if he's not going to be able to install his philosophy of team dynamics, he left Renault after 1 season after seeing what a shambles they were.
The race has a decent video on this.
Harsh but fair. If they ignored his recommendations.
He was doing a podcast where your answer questions. Would you prefer him to not be honest?
The imaginary part, which people who haven't even listened to the interview make up in their heads.
Ferrari will find a way to finish behind Mercedes.
Big upgrades coming in Imola.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/aston-martin-f1-steigerung-analyse-2023/
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/aston-martin-f1-steigerung-analyse-2023/
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Expect to see a lot of changes to cars in that period considering how poor some of the development has been particularly Mercedes and McLaren but also those who changed direction last year (AM). There is a large gap with the Chinese GP cancelled resulting in April effectively having no racing but then straight into the double header of Baku and Miami then into the European races starting with Imola - most of those have long straights but aero parts need testing.
That said, it feels like the early season excitement has evaporated because nobody can catch RB until next year.
That said, it feels like the early season excitement has evaporated because nobody can catch RB until next year.
Its really not what F1 needs. A ferrari civil war. Mercedes stumbling in the dark.
The only potential saviour is a customer team with one of the greatest drivers of his generation at the wheel.
Its doomed....
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Charles Leclerc will have his work cut out in this weekend’s Saudi Arabian Grand Prix after his Ferrari team were forced to fit another control electronics power unit component, which in turn triggers a grid penalty.
Ferrari replaced the Energy Store and Control Electronics on Leclerc’s engine before the season opening Bahrain Grand Prix. The Monegasque then retired when in contention for a podium behind the two Red Bulls
As teams are only permitted to use two control electronics components per season without penalty, Leclerc’s move to a third for race two in Jeddah ensures he will have at least a 10-place grid drop this Sunday – and potentially more if they replace any other parts – and increases the chances of him taking a further penalty later in the season.
Ferrari replaced the Energy Store and Control Electronics on Leclerc’s engine before the season opening Bahrain Grand Prix. The Monegasque then retired when in contention for a podium behind the two Red Bulls
As teams are only permitted to use two control electronics components per season without penalty, Leclerc’s move to a third for race two in Jeddah ensures he will have at least a 10-place grid drop this Sunday – and potentially more if they replace any other parts – and increases the chances of him taking a further penalty later in the season.