Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Oldyella

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This is exactly the thing. It's not their story. They have to finish someone else's story. That's pretty much impossible. They're not George R.R. Martin and they were never going to catch the EXACT same feeling that guy did.

I also doubt it was their decision to only make 6 more episodes. And to be fair, there's no way you can smoothly cram so much stuff into 6 episodes without making it feel rushed.

Also I like Danaerys with bags under her eyes and disheveled hair. She can light me on fire any time.

Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
 

KirkDuyt

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Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
Entertainment people are so fecking precious. Oh boohoohoo it's taken up some of your adult life. That's what a job does. My job has taken up all of my adult life and I never get to ride a dragon or murder a king in the face.

they should be good court jesters and give us our fecking entertainment.

:)

Interesting read that by the way.
 

2cents

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Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
Very interesting, nails the problem really.
 

UweBein

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What did everything thing if the Clegane fight? Thought it was done quite well.
It was okay, but I was expecting a 20 minutes fight or so. Also fighting on the stairs did not seem right for me.
Since I was looking forward to that fight, I was kind of disappointed. I can not say that the dog got his revenge and that was what I would have liked to see, probably.
 

Raees

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Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
He's bang on the money with that analysis. If D & D wanted to move on, just hand it over to someone else or give yourselves a 3 year break or something before resuming the creative process.
 

UweBein

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So the true lesson is that books should never be adapted to film and people who lack the mental capacity to read books should only watch film. GOT is only saved by the fact that the Hobbit and LOTR were ruined a lot more than it was.

Future obvious spoilers: Jon kills Dany, ban me but it's obvious to anyone with a piece of a brain left.

Edit: what a piece of shit this show has managed to become. I assume at some stage the Glaziers took it over.
The books start to fade with book number 4 and book number 5 is really bad at times. Some pieces in there could be integrated in a soap opera straight away. Books 6 and 7 will be a disaster, IMO.
 

GBBQ

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Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
Great read. Yes I can imagine a lot of the cast are probably fed up of the time commitment to the show and would have had some difficult contract negotiations to get the show to run for another 2 series.
 

Wibble

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What :lol:
Have you read anything by Martin?
I'm not saying Daenerys won't turn destroyer in the books, it's possible, but you can be 1000% certain that the reason for it won't be 'bitches be mad'.
Yes. Couldn't get through the first book. Decent but typical fantasy fiction.
 

Shane88

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Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
It's probably the best paying job most of them will ever have, I read that bigger stars are on between $500,000-$1,000,000 an episode. It's a large ensemble cast so I imagine none are really pinned down with long shoots.

I'd be riding that gravy train until the end.
 

Kapardin

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Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)
Some of them shouldn't be, their "acting" wouldn't net them as big roles in other shows/movies.
 

dumbo

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Whilst there is no doubt truth to some of these explanations that deal with the stylistic differences and contrasting approaches of different media, and the scheduling and structural conflicts that may arise, sometimes bad is just bad. If Uwe Boll and Michael Bay had been in charge I suspect they wouldn't have been afforded such rationale.
 

Kaos

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Forget the dragon, Jon needs to prioritise the Dothraki and Unsullied respawn points. The feckers have been wiped out about a dozen times yet keep coming appearing in their thousands.
 

GloryHunter07

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I liked it. Plot holes and all.

I feel blessed that I am seemingly able to enjoy a lot of stuff that others seem to get all upset about (films, TV, Music, video games) and sorry for people who just can't enjoy anything because it isn't exactly how they picture it in their head, or isn't plotted how they think it should be.

I'm not saying you are wrong to hate anything, and I respect your right to have your opinions; I'm just saying I'm glad I don't share your views and am able to get genuine enjoyment from things which apparently make the rest of you miserable :D

That is all.
Im with you, i enjoy the ride and try not to get overly bothered by the finer points.
 

Sylar

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@Sylar - I'm going to have to disagree if you think an 8 episode long build up with subtle hints to the Boltons turning (which very few except book readers predicted) is the same as Daenerys becoming Mad this Season (which everyone predicted). I respect your ability to love the show through thick and thin though.
Oh I think youre misunderstanding me. I do enjoy the show but dont think its perfect. All im saying is that the Roose betrayal was more shocking than what Dany did last episode given what weve had previously. (especially when you look at it in restrospect)
I get most people saying it comes off as rushed but I also see different arguments on here regarding whether it was rushed, or they wanted more hints to lead to it (but also the sudden nature should have happened before). I think a problem is the shorter season as we could have had more scenes but im not one thats complaining too much about how a lot of the things have gone. Its not perfect writing, but I dont see it as the absolute worst either (I had more issue with the journey beyond the wall to get the Wight or the way the second dragon was done than this turn by Dany). If that makes sense.
 

esmufc07

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Oh I think youre misunderstanding me. I do enjoy the show but dont think its perfect. All im saying is that the Roose betrayal was more shocking than what Dany did last episode given what weve had previously. (especially when you look at it in restrospect)
I get most people saying it comes off as rushed but I also see different arguments on here regarding whether it was rushed, or they wanted more hints to lead to it (but also the sudden nature should have happened before). I think a problem is the shorter season as we could have had more scenes but im not one thats complaining too much about how a lot of the things have gone. Its not perfect writing, but I dont see it as the absolute worst either (I had more issue with the journey beyond the wall to get the Wight or the way the second dragon was done than this turn by Dany). If that makes sense.
The journey beyond the wall to kidnap a wight has to be the worst plan in the history of television.
 

Sylar

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The journey beyond the wall to kidnap a wight has to be the worst plan in the history of television.
See, this is where I think the twitter thread comes into it. HBO have come out saying they wanted more seasons, and me as a fan would have been happy. However I think the current directors were hoping they would be more focused on adapting, rather than writing and planning when they took the project.

From all accounts ive seen, from the first four seasons, there were some elements of stuff that wasnt in the 'other medium' (heh), but they added which was fantastic. I think I remember reading Hardhome was one of the things they added. But most of the other parts were adapted or modified.

The reason I give them a bit more leeway than some others on the internet do. I do think they worked backwards from the endpoint (next episode) and worked on what they wanted to show (Danys turn, NK falling, wight being presented to Cersei, two dragons being taken out, Jons parentage and identity).

From that yeah they joined the dots. At the same time I do wonder, if they didnt want to continue it, maybe HBO could have brought in people to take over and continue it. But at the same time, would that have been a good idea? Im sure Dexter (as example) changed directors after season 4 and most of us know what happened there.
These guys seem very very good at adapting and constructing set pieces. Writing 'from scratch' as opposed to 'adding' isnt their strong suit seemingly. Could they have just hired writers? Who knows. Its seems an obvious yes, but I think they were fed up or just wanted it to end. Which caused a rush and lots of time skipping and lots of conveniences or illogical moves (the episode beyond the wall).

I also do wonder about the actors in this. I think this will be the biggest project for most of them. I also wonder how many feel like Jack gleeson or want a break from it all too.

Im also mixed because some changes here and there wouldnt have affected budget and had a bit more logic around it. eg the death of the second dragon, Sandsnakes overall, Euron and him being a parody act. It didnt even need a lot of time spent on it, cos some adjustments would mean they still end up at the same place.

Overall, (need to see finale first), if I look back at this show in a few years, im going to have so many episodes or scenes I can watch as a standalone episode and be thrilled (and that includes the latter years). I get some people being disappointed (and why), but before this season started, I did say theres gonna be a lot of disappointed people and a lot of happy people (cos I never saw them being able to please everybody).

For me, Im going to look at the show overall and still rate it very highly in terms of story and spectacle (and be more focused on that than the negatives).
 

Sylar

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Anyway, that was a fckin long post haha.

Im looking forward to the finale. Cant see it being a battle. I do wonder if they do any major time jumps and am wondering what the last scene would be.

Going for deaths of Jon, Dany, Drogon, Greyworm.

I really hope they do something major with Bran. Whether its related to NK (a new NK? - maybe the one we saw destroyed isnt the same one that was created a new NKs are created every thousand years by the 3ER although doubt that?)
 

Runner

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Awful season
No disagreement there :lol:
I was referring to the author of the video being smug and immature thinking everything is hilarious because this season bad. I turned it off after 5 minutes when I realized he wasn't doing any critical analysis.

Last night I was rewatching the scene where news of Robb Starks death reaches Kings Landing. What a performance from Charles Dance. I miss that show.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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She's the Mad Queen' FFS, she following in the footsteps of her father the 'Mad King'.

She's mentally deranged and not rational so why are you looking for her to be rational?

The cause for her snapping has been her closest friends and two 'children' being slaughtered, the people she trusts the most in the world betraying her and the man she loves rejecting her.

How much more trauma do you want her to suffer before accepting that she is no longer a rational actor in her life?
People are conflating two things.

1. Dany going Mad Queen
2. How that played out.

99% of everyone I speak to, fully expected to see her go that way. Nobody is taking issue with that. It’s been on the cards.

But the scenes to see that happen... could have been written by a child. It was lazy, had no build up that made any damn sense.

Everyone is guilty of wanting to see their own scenario play out. But I’ve not read any suggestion that’s as bad as what they shot.

Hell, they could have had the surrender followed by some scene where the masses heralded Jon and rejected her, at which point she killed EVERYONE.... even that 3 minute scene would have been better than the shit they ran with. It was lazy and poorly written.

They wasted time for 7 seasons but sure as shit could have resolved it in 6 episodes. They could have done it in 3 of those 6. Instead they fcuked it in 3 minutes.

There was no single motivating factor shown on screen that should have resulted in her killing innocents.

There would have been a bigger motivation to torch Jon, Cersei, Bran, Sansa to rule a docile populace without a leader... and then be taken down by a stealthy Arya.

It’s a dogshit change of pace by people that have got it wrong. It happens. It happened.
 
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KirkDuyt

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People are conflating two things.

1. Dany going Mad Queen
2. How that played out.

99% of everyone I speak to, fully expected to see her go that way. Nobody is taking issue with that. It’s been on the cards.

But the scenes to see that happen... could have been written by a child. It was lazy, had no build up that made any damn sense.

Everyone is guilty of wanting to see their own scenario play out. But I’ve not read any suggestion that’s as bad as what they shot.

Hell, they could have had the surrender followed by some scene where the masses heralded Jon and rejected her and even that 3 minute scene would have been better than the shit they ran with. It was lazy and poorly written.

They wasted time for 7 seasons but sure as shit could have resolved it in 6 episodes. They could have done it in 3 of those 6. Instead they fcuked it in 3 minutes.

There was no single motivating factor shown on screen that should have resulted in her killing innocents.

There would have been a bigger motivation to torch Jon, Cersei, Bran, Sansa to rule a docile populace without a leader... and then be taken down by a stealthy Arya.

It’s a dogshit change of pace by people that have got it wrong. It happens. It happened.
That would've been quite brilliant actually.

That, or just some KL kid throwing a rock at her on her dragon screaming feck of you foreign cnut.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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That would've been quite brilliant actually.

That, or just some KL kid throwing a rock at her on her dragon screaming feck of you foreign cnut.
Thanks. I made it up after one pint In the sunshine. 30 seconds of effort.

Imagine giving a genuinely world class writing room several years and seeing them arrive at Quasimodo Targaeryan... “The Bells!.... The Beeeellllls”

Anyone defending that shower of shite through some faux straw man of “People are butt hurt she went crazy”.... missing the point.
 

dumbo

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I shudder every time I hear mention of wanting longer seasons and another series or two for DD to do justice to their vision.
 

KirkDuyt

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Thanks. I made it up after one pint In the sunshine. 30 seconds of effort.

Imagine giving a genuinely world class writing room several years and seeing them arrive at Quasimodo Targaeryan... “The Bells!.... The Beeeellllls”

Anyone defending that shower of shite through some faux straw man of “People are butt hurt she went crazy”.... missing the point.
Yup, Dany going mad was great. I love evil Dany, but the way she got there.. It's arguably worse than revenge of the sith with the "what have I done" to "mass murdering children" in a matter of minutes.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I shudder every time I hear mention of wanting longer seasons and another series or two for DD to do justice to their vision.
Nobody is asking for that.

EVERYONE is criticising the way they used the time available.
 

Gehrman

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People are conflating two things.

1. Dany going Mad Queen
2. How that played out.

99% of everyone I speak to, fully expected to see her go that way. Nobody is taking issue with that. It’s been on the cards.

But the scenes to see that happen... could have been written by a child. It was lazy, had no build up that made any damn sense.

Everyone is guilty of wanting to see their own scenario play out. But I’ve not read any suggestion that’s as bad as what they shot.

Hell, they could have had the surrender followed by some scene where the masses heralded Jon and rejected her, at which point she killed EVERYONE.... even that 3 minute scene would have been better than the shit they ran with. It was lazy and poorly written.

They wasted time for 7 seasons but sure as shit could have resolved it in 6 episodes. They could have done it in 3 of those 6. Instead they fcuked it in 3 minutes.

There was no single motivating factor shown on screen that should have resulted in her killing innocents.

There would have been a bigger motivation to torch Jon, Cersei, Bran, Sansa to rule a docile populace without a leader... and then be taken down by a stealthy Arya.

It’s a dogshit change of pace by people that have got it wrong. It happens. It happened.

I've never understood the strategy between Dany and her advisors. It always seems to revolve around Dany wanting to burn down the city vs laying siege for find a peaceful solution.

Dany did the totally pragmatic thing before she went Hitler. She used her Dragon to take out their defenses and enemy's key points, so her and her dragon and her army could take out the enemy. And it worked, when they surrendered no or little civilians died or were hurt. But no because she didn't get laid and Misssandei died in a war, she decides to slowly and deliberately burn every civilian in the city alive.

It's just such bad writing for a character who is aware of her fathers madness and is conscious of not becoming like him and being a just ruler. Even if people of westeros don't love her, maybe they actually would if she governed in just and generous way. And Her and Jon could marry since she needs a child to produce an heir.
 

Gehrman

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Yup, Dany going mad was great. I love evil Dany, but the way she got there.. It's arguably worse than revenge of the sith with the "what have I done" to "mass murdering children" in a matter of minutes.
I know it's off topic. But it would ultimately have been way more satisfying to see Anakin after becoming a Sith destroy a couple of Jedi Masters in combat, which would have been worthy of Darth Vaders legacy. Instead he massacres a bunch of children, unarmed politicians and then promptly loses his first battle against a worthy oppponent in Obi Wan(because he had the high ground).
 

Smores

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I've never understood the strategy between Dany and her advisors. It always seems to revolve around Dany wanting to burn down the city vs laying siege for find a peaceful solution.

Dany did the totally pragmatic thing before she went Hitler. She used her Dragon to take out their defenses and enemy's key points, so her and her dragon and her army could take out the enemy. And it worked, when they surrendered no or little civilians died or were hurt. But no because she didn't get laid and Misssandei died in a war, she decides to slowly and deliberately burn every civilian in the city alive.

It's just such bad writing for a character who is aware of her fathers madness and is conscious of not becoming like him and being a just ruler. Even if people of westeros don't love her, maybe they actually would if she governed in just and generous way. And Her and Jon could marry since she needs a child to produce an heir.
Your argument seems to be you only understand characters who do pragmatic actions therefore it's bad writing. At what point did the character ever do anything to suggest she'd accept being a hated foreign ruler? Or even that she cares for these people at all? Because they presented the case for the opposite so much so her being a kind ruler would be bad writing.

As for your suggestion about Jon i don't think the show could have made that any clearer really.

As for the above idea of Jon being heralded, the folk of kings landing hate the north and hate foreigners. It would be ridiculous for them to suddenly herald a Stark conquering the city with a foreign army.
 
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Shane88

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I've never understood the strategy between Dany and her advisors. It always seems to revolve around Dany wanting to burn down the city vs laying siege for find a peaceful solution.

Dany did the totally pragmatic thing before she went Hitler. She used her Dragon to take out their defenses and enemy's key points, so her and her dragon and her army could take out the enemy. And it worked, when they surrendered no or little civilians died or were hurt. But no because she didn't get laid and Misssandei died in a war, she decides to slowly and deliberately burn every civilian in the city alive.

It's just such bad writing for a character who is aware of her fathers madness and is conscious of not becoming like him and being a just ruler. Even if people of westeros don't love her, maybe they actually would if she governed in just and generous way. And Her and Jon could marry since she needs a child to produce an heir.
She can't have children though.
 

Gehrman

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Your argument seems to be you only understand characters who do pragmatic actions therefore it's bad writing. At what point did the character ever do anything to suggest she'd accept being a hated foreign ruler? Or even that she cares for these people at all? Because they presented the case for the opposite so much so her being a kind ruler would be bad writing.

As for your suggestion about Jon i don't think the show could have made that any clearer really.
I guess, I just find it more believable when characters make the wrong decisions based on otherwise good reasoning. It just seems that every major character in GOT has become dumb or much rumber than usual.

I don't really understand why she'd be a hated foreign ruler. All the the major houses in westeros despite Cersei and the lannisters because of their actions. It's been shown before that the people of KL hates Cersei.

Maybe Dany and Jon could spread the word that without her help the whole world would have been wiped out by the others.

Also the Targs are not really foreign. They ruled Westeros for hundreds of year. Dany still has the support of the North, The reach, the riverlands, some of the greyjoys, the storm lands, the eerie and Dorne.

There is no good reason why she couldn't become a loved ruler if she simply ruled in a compassionate, wise and just way.