Squad player who has probably already reached about 95% of his total potential. Depay had been very frustrating but has a much higher ceiling and I would rather take that gamble than get 38 average games a season from Lingard
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
Fellaini Tim DDG Carrick were all better
in your opinion
He reminds me of a slightly worse version of Welbeck, in that he's a nice enough player, but fails to make the difference often enough for the positions he finds himself in.
I actually think his finishing is better than Welbecks but all round game yeah Welbeck is better
Solid performance from him. A little sloppy at times, but good contribution.
I can't agree with that. Welbeck has some tidy finishes, on occasion. I don't recall Jesse ever finishing like a proper striker.
He works hard and gets into positions well, but there is no end product. A decent squad player, but nowhere near first XI quality.
Lol yep but come on are you related to Lingard?
I really like him. Anyone saying Januzaj and Depay should be in the squad because of potential are deluded. All 3 have had their chances and Jesse has impressed the most therefore he plays.
He's our no-frills Willian.
He's our no-frills Willian.
He hasn't even played an entire season in the first team. he's still improving and understanding what it takes to be successful in a first-team capacity. So quickly to write him off. Depay is only one year younger than Lingard and is more established, but Lingard is miles ahead of Memphis mentally and attitude wise.
good performance
He created our second best chance(Fellaini) in the game and delivered great cross in the build up towards our second goal so even though in the end he finished the game with no assists or goals he was involved in almost every move we had going forward.
Fellaini and DDG definitely were.
Fellaini was ok but nowhere close to being our best player tonight (not that i'd say lingaard was personally)
On par with Lingard. My point was more than Lingard wasn't MOTM.
Needs to play on the right of a front three or right winger cos he puts in some dangerous crosses (like the one that lead to the second goal). One of his best games.
Needs to work on his finishing though. Has missed waaay too many chances this season.
Needs to work on his finishing though. Has missed waaay too many chances this season.
Total Shots - 2
Shots on Target - 1
Key Passes - 2
Average Rating - 7.08
Shots on Target - 1
Key Passes - 2
Average Rating - 7.08
Story of the season. Fellaini, Lingard, Martial and Depay have missed a lot of chances between them. Rooney too.
Some are more guilty than others but we haven't created enough good chances either.
Hard for some of them to be prolific and clinical when its their first season and they're getting one shot every other game (and maybe a couple of 30 yard, hit and hope, type chances here and there).
Fellaini's just been cursed this season, hopefully today's goal will break a poor run for him.
His conversion rate on shots is actually higher than nearly every other player in our team.
The strange thing about Jesse is because he's 23 some people are acting as if he's already playing close to his full potential, yet Memphis who's 22 has tons of rooms to grow, despite Memphis has played first team football since he's 18.
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Hes not as flashy as others. And hes probably not going to score the type of solo goals that Martial or Payet for instance will score. So hes obviously crap (jk)
People were saying the same thing back in december and hes improved (gradually but steadily) since.
You can prove anything with facts.
Played well tonight, although he will never be a top top winger i think he's much better working from the right than in the centre where he often looks lost and games pass him by.
Maybe because Jesse hasn't really shown anything more at any other level he's competed in than he is for us right now, he's pretty much performing to the level that most of us would've expected him to. I don't think that at any point in his career Lingard has looked more than a decent talent. In comparison Depay has shown prior to joining that he's capable of performing a lot better than he is currently doing for us.
I think that the way we currently play is always going to suit Lingard better since he's a nimbler player. I always thought that it was going to be a challenge to fit Depay into Van Gaals slow and methodical style of football, but I was hopeful at the start of the season that Van Gaal had a plan for how to use him. Which in retrospect he obviously didn't.
Very true on Depay, he's used to playing football far more close to for instance Leicester's football, more opportunistic, more fast, more physical, more width and stretched play. He isnt a Ribery or Costa to create from standing position, he doesnt have that kind of dribbling, creativity, and intelligence/vision. He is more a power player, with effective dribbling (normally), good attacking runs, strength, and goalscoring ability. I made this point earlier this season, and it looks like indeed this doesnt work for him. PSV plays a completely different style of play as to what we do, but even besides all of that, he's really underperformed.
On Lingard, I think the slack he gets is injustified. He isnt really flashy but most of our attacks start with him, he has good basic technique, he's a clever player, he's fast, direct and works incredibly hard, for now he's our best option and there's no reason why he couldnt be a good squad player for us in the long run.
To be fair to Lingard, this is his first ever season at this level and I think he's show a lot of improvement. Not sure if you will recall, but there was a moment later in the game where it got played up to him and Martial, they both had perfect touches to bring it down and hold up the ball. Subsequently, he drew the foul out of kouyate, by having great awareness of who was around him and realising we were outnumbered. That sort of stuff he wasn't doing at the start of the season and if he start's putting more chances away that fall to him, he will be a very, very, useful player to have.
I actually have quite a lot of faith in him for next season. Physically he can develop as well, he could pack on some muscle in pre-season and get even faster/stronger.
Yea, and get 36 shit games from Depay instead.
Agreed. if his finishing was better he'd have twice as many goals for the season and twice as many fans on here
I'd take the 36 shit games from Depay that could lead to him fulfilling his potential vs 36 ok games from a decent and nothing more player who probably won't improve much beyond his current level.
Load of players struggle when they first come to England even the likes of Ronaldo and Henry, sitting on the bench isn't going to further his development. Imagine in 2003 Ronaldo being frozen out of the team because he didn't hit the ground running and us playing Chadwick or somebody instead.
Really annoys me how he jumps for headers and has no intention of actually heading the ball - its like he's just going through the motions. He's the same when tackling - he won't go near a 50/50 challenge and prefers to jump out the way. He's got to man up.
1) You've got absolutely no idea whether Depay will 'fulfill his potential' or not, playing or not. What if his max is what he's showing/what he's shown in the Netherlands? What if he's capable of showing his talent only against likes of Midtjylland?
2) How do you know that Lingard won't develop any further? Depay will but Lingard won't for what reason exactly? He's progressed this season compared to the last one, he's still thrown around positions.
3) You know that Depay has played roughly 200 minutes less for us overall than Lingard?
4) I can't remember Ronaldo being as fecking awful in his first season for us as Depay has been thus far, don't know about Henry as I didn't watch Arsenal games obviously. Putting those two names and Depay's is like playing 'spot the odd one out' game anyway.
Was very good last night, i don't understand the heat Lingered gets?
He tries his bollocks off for us., if he cost 20 million you guys would be buzzing but he's 23 and has been on loan @ Birmingham & Derby
He tries his bollocks off for us., if he cost 20 million you guys would be buzzing but he's 23 and has been on loan @ Birmingham & Derby
Well obviously i don't know for sure if he will fulfill his potential playing every week, but i 100% know he will never reach it sitting on the bench.
Yeah good one mate, he played the grand total of 24 minutes for us last year. I would like to think he's progressed this season after 30 games. Jesus.
Also how do i know he won't develop any further? Simple i don't nor have i said that anywhere (read my last post), but based on watching youngsters come and go into the United side over nearly 30 years of watching us he looks to me a decent player who could become a solid squad player for us but nothing more.
No i didn't know, thanks for the stats. Your point being? We are already discussing Lingard getting more games than Depay, so it's a safe fecking assumption Lingard has played more minutes.
Jesus titty fecking christ, i was comparing their situations not the players directly. I emphasized the point by saying ''even the likes of Ronaldo and Henry'', by saying that i mean if two all time greats had problems adjusting in their first year in England then a young player like Depay can be excused for taking time to settle, especially if his manager is barely playing him.
Obviously Ronaldo being possibly one of the top 5-10 players of all time is going to have a higher lower level than Depay, especially as he joined a settled and successful side with a manager in charge that trusted him and knew how to develop him.
How do you think an 18 year old Ronaldo would do in this current side under LVG. Do you think Van Gaal would be a big fan of Ronaldo trying multiple step overs, tricks and losing the ball a lot?
Yeah my guess is he would probably be out in the cold and sitting the in the stands alongside Depay, Pereira and Januzaj.
But you do make an assumption that he 'probably won't improve much beyond his current level' and call him a 'Squad player who has probably already reached about 95% of his total potential.' What makes you think that though? How do you assume that Depay has a higher celling and he'll probably blossom under any other manager but Lingard won't?
That he's not really frozen out if he's played just roughly 200 minutes less than Lingard?
And again, Ronaldo wasn't as terrible as Depay is. For Lingard it's pretty much his first year in PL as well and he's doing better than Depay, or is it because Lingard was loaned out to Championship before? Or is that because he's English? Januzaj in his debut season was a lot better than Depay too, being even younger, but I suppose it's down to him being our academy product (if you can call him that), right?
But I'd say that Depay is actually one of those players who had LVG's trust. I mean, he played him in WC before he came to us, he transferred him to us, gave him multiple chances when he was rubbish and even let him play as a striker to absolve him of defensive duties which seems to be his biggest weakness. Also, 18 year old Ronaldo was actually able to beat his man with tricks whatsoever, 22 year old Depay is not.
Same here. I can only think people's sheer lack of understanding of football gets in the way.Was very good last night, i don't understand the heat Lingered gets?
He tries his bollocks off for us., if he cost 20 million you guys would be buzzing but he's 23 and has been on loan @ Birmingham & Derby
My view is exactly the same as Keown's on the co commentary yesterday, that he's developing quickly, having got the chance and kept his shirt, and if he could improve his finishing we'd really have a player and a half.
The sheer movement and running of Lingard, Martial and Rashford makes us a completely different threat up front.
And on the face of it those three are lesser players than say VP/Falcao/Rooney/Mata, any three from that.
But they are much more effective.
I dare say if this was the early 90s, there would be threads saying how "average" Beckham was, and that he wasn't United quality etc
Out of our youngsters, I think Rashford and FM clearly have the most potential, but I think Lingard will make at worst a very effective squad member.
Nah they wouldn't, it's the exact opposite. He'd be getting slated if he cost £20m and rightly so because he isn't worth half that. People like him because he's from the academy. He runs around a lot but I genuinely can't see anything else he's remotely good at. He isn't rapid, his finishing is awful, his short passing isn't good at all. Nowhere near good enough for us.Was very good last night, i don't understand the heat Lingered gets?
He tries his bollocks off for us., if he cost 20 million you guys would be buzzing but he's 23 and has been on loan @ Birmingham & Derby
good post, completely agree, think people would feel different about him if he came from PSV for 20mil or so, would say he had a decent season for a 23 year old in a new league which lingard is, only one year older than depay, age is irrelevant, players reach their potential at different time and very big number of players wont ever reach it and there are some who can if they work hard surpass their potential.. like fletcher or park who were not the most talented footballers but definitely became key players for a certain time and I think it's the Lingard case..
in addition to that, some attributes like clever movement, positioning good weight on pass is hard to spot when you dont have the football knowledge, some poster here never kicked the ball outside school obviously.. they will just settle with words like hard work etc. and the same bullshit ending by "limited player" what Lingard might feel like but he's outperforming players like Mata, Memphis, world class Januzaj etc. yeah but he's limited
Um, Ronaldo made 22 sub appearances in his first season with us...
- Status